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coffeedragon
02-12-2008, 05:35 AM
Has anyone come across a decent non level point based system (such as GURPS) but that uses a d20 for its combat?:confused:

I'm an old D&D veteran, and while I can't handle the restrictions to character development that a class and level based rule system imposes, combat just isn't combat unless i'm rolling that D20! I realise it comes across as petty, but rpg's are all about the experience, right?:o

I'm busy with a system conversion of True20 using the 'classless' rules from BESM D20, which has become an incedible amount of work and quite frankly, I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever finish and be able to play again!!:eek:

MortonStromgal
02-12-2008, 10:20 AM
Mutants and Masterminds... its not exactly d20 (theres no hit points, which is better IMHO) but its 80% d20. It has "levels" but each level = certain number of character points. So like level 3 characters get 45 pts level, 5 characters have 75 pts, etc.

coffeedragon
02-12-2008, 01:23 PM
That sounds great! Thanks, i'll go check it out. Hitpoints are probably the biggest reason D&D combat takes so long.

Drohem
02-12-2008, 01:28 PM
You may want to consider the Omni System Morrigan Press.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=182_312&products_id=2862

It is a distillation of the Talislanta 4th edition rules made generic like GURPS. It is based upon rolling a single d20. It is an archtype skill-based system.

There are several games based upon the Omni System:

Talislanta 5th edition

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?cPath=244

High Medieval
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=2333&it=1

Atlantis: The Second Age
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=2881&it=1

The Terran Trade Authority
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=16002&it=1

The Seventh Seal
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=2106&it=1

However, if you were going to use or purchase the Talislanta RPG, then I would recommend getting a copy of 4e Talislanta if you can.

Mulsiphix
02-12-2008, 02:51 PM
However, if you were going to use or purchase the Talislanta RPG, then I would recommend getting a copy of 4e Talislanta if you can.What is wrong with the 5E?

Drohem
02-12-2008, 04:11 PM
What is wrong with the 5E?

Well, Tal4 is contained in one book. The 5th edition of Talislanta is contained in 3 core books: Player's Guide, Game Master's Guide, and The Menagerie. The softcover version cost $30-$35 each. So, you're looking at almost $100 just for the 5th edition core books. There are some minor changes and tweaks from the 4th edition; namely the path system. The biggest grip I have (other than the cost) is the fact that the books are poorly edited. The Game Master's Guide is so bad that it seems like it was sent to the printer without even using spell check on the manuscript. Seriously, it's that bad; it makes it difficult to read because there are so many spelling and editing errors. I felt seriously ripped-off for paying like $40+ (including shipping). Dear god, at the very least use spell check before it's printed.

Mulsiphix
02-12-2008, 04:18 PM
That is sad indeed. Thank you for clarifying :o

coffeedragon
02-15-2008, 02:29 AM
Mutants and Masterminds... its not exactly d20 (theres no hit points, which is better IMHO) but its 80% d20.
In fact it's almost 100% True20 - word for word in many cases! There are many features in both games that I really liked, which is why I've been trying to modify True20 from a level-based to a point based system.
As an interesting side-note, while both games use the same combat mechanic, it is far easier to understand the M&M version than the True20 one.

You may want to consider the Omni System Morrigan Press.

I was a little dubious about this one at first, as I read up on several reviews that it was badly put together and sloppy compared to Talislanta.
However, I am pleased to say that I'm thoroughly enjoying it :) Thank you!
It still needs some tweaking here and there of course ;). They use a version of hitpoints, but it's a fixed number that does not change as the character progresses. So a beggining party battle is likely to last as long as one with adavnced characters.
I'm still working through the combat, but so far it looks very promising. Magic is simple and easily allows for a lot of creativity on the part of the players. In fact, much of the game system seems designed in such a way that the players don't need to be fluent with several books worth of rules - rather, they simply tell the GM what they're trying to do and he uses the simple ruleset to describe the outcome.
So new players don't end up feeling like they can't play as well as rule-savvy veterans, which was a problem in the last D&D game I ran.
All in all I think I can get a playable rough draught up and running far sooner than if I continue to slog through my True20 conversion.
Thanks again
Jacques

Drohem
02-15-2008, 02:49 PM
My pleasure, I am glad I could be helpful. :)

Mulsiphix
02-15-2008, 09:22 PM
So new players don't end up feeling like they can't play as well as rule-savvy veterans, which was a problem in the last D&D game I ran. All in all I think I can get a playable rough draught up and running far sooner than if I continue to slog through my True20 conversion.WOW :eek:. This is probably the first positive thing I've heard about OmniSystem. Well at least where it was chosen over another system, especially impressive as it went up against True 20 :cool:

Drohem
02-16-2008, 01:00 PM
I would definitely chose Omni System over True20 any day as well.

coffeedragon
02-21-2008, 06:43 AM
While True20 is a great system, it still remains a fairly rule heavy one. In terms of simplicity that still delivers a playable structure, Omni rates tops in my book:cool:
What I don't really get, is all the negative feedback Omni has been getting? It's Talislanta 4e without a setting, yet no-one seems to have much negative feedback on Talislanta.
Admittedly the editing is shoddy and more thought could have gone into the layout, but it's not a huge book and as they say on the first page


Once the basics of the system are understood,
players and GMs alike should be able to play the game without even referring back to this book

I just think people need to give it a chance:confused:

Drohem
02-21-2008, 10:29 AM
I completely agree. One of the failings of Morrigan Press is the editing and typos in their books. It really is visable in 5th Talislanta; especially the Game Master's Guide. However, the system is sound, flexible, and playable. It has been one of my favorite for years.

nijineko
02-23-2008, 05:59 AM
maybe if someone submitted an edited and corrected version for them to reproduce...

joshuadunlow
03-29-2008, 04:37 PM
I own the Omni system as well, because i am such a fan of the Talislanta system. And though d20, its not exactly d20. And more open ended, though the main core Omni book, as alot of stuff not in it. And you have to build characters from the bottom up, id like to get with someone just to get a grip on character creation. Since there are no standard classes or even templates for that matter.

kipling
03-30-2008, 07:51 AM
There's also, I jut remembered, a fan-done version of D20 Modern that's point-based. I don't know if I have a copy somewhere around but if I do, I can PM you in case of interest.

fmitchell
03-30-2008, 05:02 PM
I don't know how good they are, but I did purchase two point-buy d20 systems a while ago: "Live System SRD" by Grim Desborough, and "Buy the Numbers" by Spencer Cooley, both available through DriveThruRPG.

Alas, they're still in the "Unread" heap, so they might both be rubbish. Also, both seem to have a fantasy slant.

tesral
03-31-2008, 07:37 AM
Admittedly the editing is shoddy and more thought could have gone into the layout, but it's not a huge book and as they say on the first page
I just think people need to give it a chance:confused:

Presentation is important. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that isn't at least aware of their grammar and spelling. While not the greatest example of same I edit my posts before posting them.

However, I'm not asking anyone to pay money for my posts. If I am spending money an effort at sufficient proofreading, editorial control and layout is a must. Failure to do so indicates to me that the writers are not serious about their efforts, so why should I be?

That is why they get trashed. Shoddy work should be trashed.

coffeedragon
03-31-2008, 09:26 AM
kiplingThere's also, I jut remembered, a fan-done version of D20 Modern that's point-based. I don't know if I have a copy somewhere around but if I do, I can PM you in case of interest.
That would be great, thanks :D I ran into time conflicts, so my adaptation of the Omni rules has been put on hold until I get a fresh burst of inspiration;)