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Maelstrom
02-11-2008, 02:12 PM
Mulsiphix:

We need to decide a couple things before getting started.

1) Size of armies.

For an introductory battle, I recommend we do a 100 pt skirmish. The standard is 200 pts, but 100 pts ought to be good to see how viable a PBP DDM2 battle is.

Also, would you like me to build an army for you as I offered? If so, what sounds best to you for a faction: Underdark, the Wild, Civilization, or the Borderlands? I'll probably be doing Borderlands.

Because this is online, we can choose whatever units, but I recommend we limit the use of rares (though they tend to limit themselves with how much they cost). Maybe 1 rare per side for a smaller 100 point skirmish.

2) Map.

Usually, the map is determined by players during setup, but I think for this, because I'll need to download a map pic and modify it a little for easy reference, we should just choose one and go with it. I like the looks of the Fane of the Drow map: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mit/20050728a, which is freely available from WoTC, but I'm open for other suggestions.

3) Rolling

Seems like integrated rolling is on the way, but its not here yet. We can use this roller for now: http://www.rpghost.com/dicer.shtml We'll both get the emails, and the person who's turn it is can post the results.

I'll start thinking about how to adapt some of the rules to PBP play, but I don't think it will take much work.

Mulsiphix
02-11-2008, 03:56 PM
1) I agree a 100pt army sounds good as a test to see how easy it is to play in PBP format. I would really like for you to build me an army for this first game. I think The Wild sound delicious. 1 Rare per side for this skirmish sounds just fine by me.

2) The map you picked out is just fine. I was thinking that we could setup the map in MapTool, using tokens for units, and just take a screenshot and upload it after each turn? Just a thought, what do you think would work well for this?

3) That roller is fine by me. Is there anything else I need to do to prepare for this first game?

Thank you for getting everything setup. I am extremely excited about playing this game. Your passion on the forums for DDM has had me drooling over this game for a good while now. I might just end up being a fellow addict. In fact I'm counting on it! :D

Maelstrom
02-11-2008, 05:09 PM
I'll work out a couple warbands then. Since that is part of setup for DDM2, I'll just reveal them here.

As far as rules, we can step you through as needed, and if you have specific questions you can go to the guide. Having the rules listed here though will make it easy for anyone following to know what is going on. And correct me if I'm wrong :) Keep in mind this is my first playing of DDM version 2.0 too.

After that, we roll initiative for who gets to place where. The only thing to do now is take a look at the map and see if you can pick out locations of strategic interest. There are two main regions you'll need to watch: The starting areas and the victory areas. Starting areas are... where you start. By having units in Victory areas you get bonus victory points. Start thinking about what starting area you want if you win initiative.

Maptool sounds good. If you want to keep the files and update them each turn that would be nice. If you'd like to trade off or have me do it, I can do it too, once I learn a bit about MapTool.


Thank you for getting everything setup. I am extremely excited about playing this game. Your passion on the forums for DDM has had me drooling over this game for a good while now. I might just end up being a fellow addict. In fact I'm counting on it! :D

This sounds pretty fun! Having a PBP version going on sounds like a pretty fun drama, and certainly gives you a lot more time to think about your move. Hopefully we can win another convert or two with our antics ;) The more the merrier! The more opponents I can slam down! :D

Mulsiphix
02-11-2008, 05:36 PM
I definitely plan on updating my end of Maptool each turn. I figured you would do the same for your turns. We could make tokens for MapTool using images of the miniatures themselves. The same guys that make MapTool also make one of the best Token creators I've ever seen. Gets the job done very well ;)

Maelstrom
02-11-2008, 09:04 PM
The Warbands

Player: Mulsiphix
Faction: The Wild, with Evil tendancies
Total value: 97 points

First up, we have Mulsiphix' warband, coming out of the Wild to wreck havoc upon civilization! Weighing in at 42 points, this warband is led by a fearsome Sahaugin Baron *collective gasp*. This champion brings pain to the battlefield with his Trident and Claw Rake attacks, and can make those that follow him fearsome even when injured badly.

He is followed by a Yuan-Ti Malison, who's varied attacks include a powerful ranged attack and the ability to scare the socks off of those in a radius around him. He also provides bonuses to the next member, a Flame Snake. Watch out, he spits. Fire. And burns you if he bites you.

Finally, no wild warband is complete without a Devil summoned to serve and destroy. Here comes the Spined Devil, who's flight ability and ranged attack renders him a menace throughout the battlefield. When he does close in for the kill, beware his spines, which will strike out at you as you strike him!

65

Player: Maelstrom
Faction: Civilization
Total Value: 95 Points

Daring to defend Civilization from the encroaching abominations, this band is led by a well known Mercenary General, riding upon a sturdy warhorse. He brings to the battlefield a loyal cohort, a Militia Archer. This General knows how to lead his troops to victory, aiding them in their time of need with his Champion abilities.

The General's cohort is not alone... though the first joins at no cost to the warband, a second Militia archer also joins the ranks. These archers are experts in their field, laying down coordinated fire and having some minor champion abilities themselves, giving them the ability to shoot a long range, or giving allies a bonus against more powerful opponents.

Rounding up the band is a Halfling Enchanter. Though he is small, his Mental Shock ability is well practiced, and he can use it to cause additional hesitation and vertigo in his victims. He is also quite difficult to hit, having a couple mirror images.

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Edit: My host is on the fritz, so I had to upload these pics as attachments rather than image links.

Maelstrom
02-11-2008, 09:10 PM
Now we must prepare for war! The first order of business is to roll initiative. First, we compare champion levels. Since the Mercenary General's champion rating of 4 is higher than the Sahaugin Baron's champion rating of 3, I get to roll two d20s for initiative and take the higher. Mulsiphix rolls one d20. Whoever has the higher roll wins.


The winner chooses which start area to use (A or B).
The loser places their warband on the map first in the other start area.
The winner then places their warband on the map.This is modified from the rules since we've already chosen the map. In the rules, the winner chooses the map, the loser chooses the first start area, etc.

Unfortunately it looks like the dicer program isn't working.

Want to roll and post for now, or do you want to try a different alternative?

Mulsiphix
02-11-2008, 09:37 PM
Lets just roll for now. I have a D20 here at the house. I roll a 2 :p.

Maelstrom
02-11-2008, 10:11 PM
13 and 11, so I get to choose a start area.

I'm going to pick Start area B on the left. You've got two start areas... you can split up your units between the both of them.

The only question now... are there any of our units that are large in size? I'll have to look at mini pics to find out.

Mulsiphix
02-11-2008, 11:09 PM
Let me know when you do. Need to get some tokens created for MapTool. I could just use the images from the cards you provided, just for this game at least. That okay with you?

Maelstrom
02-11-2008, 11:23 PM
Fine by me. You can also look at the Wizards site... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mg/dod

There's a gallery of the actual minis used for Desert of Desolation (where all these units come from).

As far as large units... There is the Warhorse and the Baron. Even the Spined Devil has a medium base.

Mulsiphix
02-11-2008, 11:29 PM
What is the significance of the unit size?

Mulsiphix
02-11-2008, 11:39 PM
How do these tokens look?

http://www.itemorphanage.com/tokens/Token_Halfling_Enchanter.png http://www.itemorphanage.com/tokens/Token_Mercenary_General.jpg.png http://www.itemorphanage.com/tokens/Token_Militia_Archer.jpg.png http://www.itemorphanage.com/tokens/Token_Warhorse.jpg.png

Maelstrom
02-12-2008, 05:32 AM
Beautiful! Nicely done!

The ones that are Large (Baron and horse) take up two squares two a side.

Maelstrom
02-12-2008, 07:09 AM
Here's the map.

V is for Victory area, and S is for starting area. The areas outlined in green are for side A, and the areas in pink are side B.

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Looking at the map: I'd recommend opening in a new window.

So Green in the Green S sections is where it is legal for you to set up. Choose a location for all your units, keeping in mind terrain and where your victory areas are.

Just for a little scoring tidbit:
You can score two ways. Holding Victory Areas and Defeating your opponent's units. We are playing a standard Assault (100) scenario, so you gain 5 points if you have any units in any of your victory areas at the end of a round (It's usually 10 for a standard 200 point scenario, so I'm cutting it in half). Each time you eliminate an opponents units, you get victory points equal to their value.

Edit : Map updated w/area bonuses

Mulsiphix
02-12-2008, 12:51 PM
Beautiful! Nicely done!

The ones that are Large (Baron and horse) take up two squares two a side.In MapTool you can set a tokens size. Tokens can take up a single square, 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, etc... Not a problem :cool:


Here's the map.Why did you make the map so small? Why not keep it at its original size and then add the coordinates? Also aren't we playing this with maptool and tokens? No need for coordinates if that is the case right? Just confused :confused:

click on map to see full size original
http://aycu14.webshots.com/image/41853/2000152582143896253_fs.jpg (http://www.itemorphanage.com/maps/Fane-Lolth-sheet.jpg)
click on map to see full size original

I am putting together a maptool campaign file. It will include the tokens, the map, and the proper settings for using it for the play by post method. Becuase the squares on this map are not perfect we cannot use MapTools "snap to grid" function. However moving the tokens manually works just fine. Anyway I'll post it a little later today. I promised my wife some movie time. When I get back I'll finish the campaign file and upload it for you.

Maelstrom
02-12-2008, 01:19 PM
I was trying to make it more managable, and the original pic is too big to fit on a screen. I won't have access to MapTool during the day, so I'll at least have the grid as a reference if I find time to do a turn when I don't have access.

Oh, can you make two tokens for the Militia Archer? One with an A and one with a B? I have two Militia Archers, so it'd be nice to easily differentiate them.

Mulsiphix
02-12-2008, 04:03 PM
I'll be happy to update the map accordingly. This is a short term fix. If this takes off I'll find a better way than taking screen shots. For now when you move just give me the coordinates. you move each unit to. I'll upload everything in my next post. Lots of stuff to do :o.

Mulsiphix
02-12-2008, 05:34 PM
Alright I'm working on the map and I see some areas that look like they give bonuses. Can you mark on your map what these bonuses are? I can add them to the map I am working on. This may not be as play by post friendly as I had though lol. Still it is a good chance to try out the game.

Note: The map I am working on is a paintshop file that uses layers. This way I can easily adjust opacity, translucency, etc... in case a situation arises where an area needs clearer definition or some text gets in the way. Is it necessary? No. Do I like having the extra's? Yes I do :p

Maelstrom
02-12-2008, 06:17 PM
That map sounds nice for completeness, but it also sounds like a lot of work. Don't burn yourself out! Just specifying the grid locations is enough to play the game (though I admit a good visual representation would be much better).

I've updated the map w/bonuses and a legend. Two special areas: The Blood Rock allows a critical on 19-20 for units attacking with melee units from one of those squares (normally only if you roll a natural 20). The Sacred Circle gives a +2 to attack. Because it doesn't mention melee specifically, it is +2 to all attacks, even spells.

Mulsiphix
02-12-2008, 09:21 PM
I ran into some complications with tonight. I'll have the map ready sometime tomorrow. Sorry for the delay :(

Maelstrom
02-12-2008, 09:39 PM
No rush. One nice thing about PBP, it can be played at our liesure.

Mulsiphix
02-12-2008, 10:08 PM
Looks like Vassal is just what we're looking for actually. I've got to mess around with it a bit but it puts the grid up for us right away and has a module specifically for DDM 2.0. Looks awesome.

Maelstrom
02-13-2008, 09:19 AM
I went to look up the mount rules, but apparently they don't have them yet. They are coming with the next version of the Desert of Desolation DDM2 cards.

Here is what I recommend for the Warhorse for the purposes of this game:
1) The rider shares the same space with the Warhorse. Either can be attacked if an opponent can target the Warhorse.
2) If the rider is killed, there is no effect on the mount.
3) If the mount is killed, the rider can be placed in any of the mount's spaces, but is stunned until his/her next turn.

Also, I noticed there was clarification from WoTC about a couple of the cards we're using: The warhorse only allows a basic attack to the rider for its charge special ability, and the Spinded Devil's Spine shield can be used as a free action on the Spine Devil's turn.

Mulsiphix
02-13-2008, 11:30 AM
Can you take a look at Vassal Maelstrom? This thing is tailored for DDM play. It even has all the miniatures available for DDM 2.0 and their stats.
Vassal is a game engine designed to be used for tabletop skirmish games. It is a general online system that has customized modules for hundreds of different skirmish type games. Dungeons and Dragons Miniatures is just one of them. To play DDM online you basically need three things:

1. Updated version of Java.
2. The Vassal game engine installed.
3. The downloaded DDM module.

Step One
Here is a link to installing Java and Vassal:
http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/dok...d:installation (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/doku.php%3Fid%3Dgetting_started:installation)
Follow the directions closely.

Step Two
After that you'll need the latest DDM module. Here is the link:
http://www.vassalengine.org/communit...202&page=Files (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.vassalengine.org/community/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_vassal_modules%26task%3Dd isplay%26module_id%3D202%26page%3DFiles)
You don't need the RPG module but you will need the extensions if you want to use any of the epic maps. So download the DDM_1-14-3.mod and the Extensions_1-14-3.zip and follow the instructions to place them into the proper folder.

Remember to follow the instructions closely. If you have any difficulties then feel free to ask me.

Maelstrom
02-13-2008, 11:55 AM
Yeah, I took a look at the site though I haven't gotten around to downloading it. I should have time to take a look at it tonight. So are we saying we should use Vassal Play By Email instead of PBP?

The only holdbacks for me are access (I can't get to Vassal except in the evening, while I can access the boards at various times in the day), and publicity (putting it on the boards allows others to see what is going on and supports the Pen&Paper Gaming site).

Negating Access issue:
Can you play vassal hotseat as well as by email? If so, you could do my turns for me with me telling you where to move my units when I don't have access. Or we can just be content to do one turn a day as I'm limited in my access.

Negating publicity issue:
We can always just post the current progress and latest Trash Talk on the forums, while the actual play is done in Vassal.

Thoughts?

Mulsiphix
02-13-2008, 12:21 PM
I was hoping you could take a look at Vassal just to see if the program would work for our needs. I am aware that you have limited access so I was planning on you posting your moves in a post and me making them in Vassal. Being the moderator of this forum has its perks as I can edit your posts and provide a screenshot of the Vassal board for each one of your turns. I would then respond with my own screenshot and moves. I figured we would use the same posting format so others could easily follow our game. I have no problem at all making all the moves in the program for both of us ;)

Maelstrom
02-13-2008, 01:09 PM
Sounds like a good plan to me! Lets do it.

Though I haven't tried vassal yet, my brief perusal of it impressed me greatly, with nijineko's shining endorsement of it, and your good impression, I don't see how I could Not like it.

My only question is how it handles the mount, but I'm sure we can work around it.

Whenever you've made your deployment, I'm ready to start, playing in the manner you suggest.

Mulsiphix
02-13-2008, 01:35 PM
I haven't had time to really take a look at Vassal yet. I might be able to squeeze it in later tonight but I'm not sure. I was actually hoping that you could run througha mock game for me using the units you've already chosen. I want to see it in action before I determine the placement of my units. If you'd rather just teach me on the fly, could you suggest good placement points for my units? I expect to get creamed during the first few sessions so I don't mind the additional help ;)

http://aycu02.webshots.com/image/41441/2000842703708709079_th.jpg (http://aycu02.webshots.com/image/41441/2000842703708709079_rs.jpg)

Maelstrom
02-13-2008, 02:55 PM
Lets just go through this game (as opposed to doing a trial first).

Though I've been playing DDM for 4 months *gasp* I'm brand new to DDM2, not having played a game myself, so ramp up time will be for both of us. The only difference is that I've read through the rules, and having played the previous game they were easy to understand.

I'll give you as much advice as you want, and you can take it or leave it. We'll play an "open hand" game... if you play Magic with someone new you have both players lay down your hands so you can give them pointers and explain what is going on.

Ok, so suggested placement. Here are some of the strategic thought's I'd have from your perspective:

You are placing first so I'll be able to match whatever you do, so there is no reason to try a fancy ploy.
With a 100 point game, our units are limited, so you're going to want to protect your units but get in a victory area as quick as possible. This will be a quick and dirty, so bad luck can end the game quickly.
Your Sahaugin Baron is a wicked beasty that can give and take very well, so you want him in the thick of the fray as quickly as possible.
Your Spined Devil is tough enough to operate independantly, and his flight ability and speed enhance this feature.
Your Yuan-Ti should stick with the Baron, as he is a bit more fragile. He will rain down good ranged attacks, but alone he might be in trouble. The snake is perfect fodder to get into a Victory Area and stay there. Even if he is killed, 8 points isn't a big loss. Because of the independance of the Devil though, best to keep him with your Baron and Yuan-Ti until he can make a break for a victory area.
Looking at my warband, you see a couple archers, an enchanter, and an experienced war hero. I have a mount, but it can only be used for humans, and sticking an archer on it would be a waste, so you can guess pretty strongly (and correctly) that I will use the Warhorse for my General. He will move fast and hit hard, but if you can seperate him from his followers, you can lay into them like they were butter. Knowing this, you can guess (if I was smart) that I'd want to keep my units together, and thus you know splitting your Devil from the Baron is even a better idea.So in short, my advice is to have two groups. One will consist of the Baron, Snake, and Yuan Ti, and the other will be the Spined Devil all by his lonesome. I would recommend putting the groups in seperate start areas, with the Baron and Spined Devil as far forward as possible.

Mulsiphix
02-13-2008, 10:36 PM
Following your suggestions, does this look right for starting out?

http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/45651/2002585709537363830_th.jpg (http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/45651/2002585709537363830_rs.jpg)

Maelstrom
02-14-2008, 05:25 AM
You've got your Baron alone (the big guy) and your Spined Devil with the group. Did you mean to do that?

All right, here's my setup:
70

Vassal is pretty nice!

Here's the save that has my units if you want to put it together with yours:
71
It's not a txt file, but I needed an allowed extension to upload it. Should open in Vassal just fine.

Maelstrom
02-14-2008, 07:05 AM
All right: Next we start the first turn. For your reference, this is how each turn plays:

We both roll initiative. Since I have the higher champion rating, I roll 2d20 again and take the highest.
The winner chooses to activate first or let the other player activate first. The first player activates one unit (I'll describe this next)
The other player activates two units
The first player activates two units
3 and 4 are repeated until all units are activated once.
We start over at 1 for the next roundUnit activation:

When activated, a unit has a move action and an attack action.
The move action can be used to move up to the unit's speed, or shift 1 square without attacks of opportunity.
The attack action can be used to use one of the unit's attacks listed at the top of the card, to charge, or to take another move action.Moving:
Moving into any square takes 1 movement point except those with a triangle in it (difficult terrain) which take 2 movement points. The Spined Devil takes one point for any square because of its flight ability. Units can move left, right, up, or down, or diagonally for the same price. One caveat... you can't move diagonally past a wall, you must move around it.

Charging:
This is an attack and move combined. You must move at least two squares, and at the end of the move you can attack an opponent. To charge, you have to have a line of sight at the beginning of the move.

Attacks of opportunity:
When a unit moves out of a threatened square (squares adjacent or diagonal to a unit) that unit gets an attack of opportunity. This is the basic attack, the one at the top of the card. You also get an attack of opportunity if your opponent uses a ranged weapon while adjacent to you.

Maelstrom
02-14-2008, 07:32 AM
Here's something we can improve and work up to update the status of the game:


Round 1

Mulsiphix
Victory Points: 0

Units:
Sahaugin Baron
HP: 60/60
Champion Abilities left: 3
Claw Rake uses left: 2

Spined Devil
HP: 45/45
Spine Shield uses left: 2

Yuan-Ti Malison
HP: 35/35
Cause Fear uses left: 2

Flame Snake
HP: 30/30
Special: +2 Att, +2 Def (Yuan-Ti ability)

Maelstrom
Victory Points: 0

Units:
Mercenary General
HP: 65/65
Champion abilities left: 4
Special: Mounted on Warhorse

Warhorse
HP: 45/45

Militia Archer 1 (left)
HP: 40/40
Champion abilities left: 2

Militia Archer 2 (right)
HP: 40/40
Champion abilities left: 2

Halfling Enchanter
HP: 50/50
Hesitate uses left: 1
Mirror Image uses left: 2
Vertigo uses left: 2

I rolled 2 d20s for initiative, and got 2 and 6 (wince). Roll your initiative, and if you win you choose whether to move first or let me move. In the first round, its probably best to have me move first so you can see where I'm going, since I won't be able to immediately attack any of your units. If you lose initiative, go ahead and move one of your units first.

nijineko
02-14-2008, 08:10 AM
(whispers quietly: yea! vassal!)

Mulsiphix
02-14-2008, 02:39 PM
Just wanted to let you know that today is my Anniversary as well as Valentine's Day. I don't think I'll have time to play a round today. I shouldn't have a problem getting one or two in tomorrow though. Glad to hear you like Vassal ;)

Mulsiphix
02-15-2008, 11:05 PM
Today was no better. Sorry for the delay Maelstrom. I'm usually much more dependable than this. Tomorrow should be better :o

Maelstrom
02-16-2008, 04:38 AM
It's all good :) I don't think I would have much time to respond the last couple days anyways.

Mulsiphix
02-18-2008, 06:20 AM
Nor have I. Glad to know I haven't left you hanging. Last night I have my second five hour D&D session and I've been running a lot of errands for my mom lately. Sharing a car is worse than having one that hardly works hehe. Well having an AC is pretty nice though. Last summer in my old clunker was pretty bad. Things should clear up for me soon. Thank you for being patient and understanding ;)

Teclis44
10-14-2008, 01:51 PM
Sorry to poke in. Have you tried using Vassal? They have all of the miniatures loaded and all of the maps.

http://www.vassalengine.org/community/index.php?option=com_vassal_modules&task=display&module_id=202

Teclis44
04-03-2009, 03:18 PM
Actually read through your entire thread this time and saw that you at least were talking about using the Vassal program. Couple things have been going on since October. You probably know about Wizards pulling support for the skirmish game. However they did give the license to run with it to the DDM Guiild, here is the link to the site for more information about what they are doing and what is in the works.

http://www.ddmguild.com/

Also Vassal has been updated as of a couple days ago to include the Half maps which are for 100 point matches, the Hordelings Fund Raisser map, and the Fallen Fortress map that was supposed to be released with the next set of miniatures that was canceled. One other thing, Vassal has been a little on the unstable side recently and some people have gotten bumped off the server during a match. Just save your game and try to reconnect or there is also an option to play peer to peer. They have also added a lock featuer to the game room for privacy.