Does anyone play M+M?

[Citadel]

I was just curious if anyone play's Mutants and masterminds here? There doesn't seem to be a large community. I guess if it doesn't say wizards d20 it doesn't deserve a chance LOL. Thats trully a shame for such a great system.

For those who do some how draw your selves from the norm and do play M+M. Tell me about your campaign, what are your characters like, what you like about the system, and tell me what you don't like. Lets face it not everyone agrees even in democracy. So give me your rants and raves

[TAROT]

I've been using it from time to time. A little fantasy, some pulp/horror, mostly in the PL4-8 range.

I'm in the process of putting some house rules up on the Articles/Blogs section of the site. The first bits should be ready in a few days.

[Mulsiphix]

The official forums (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/) are home to hundreds of currently active M&M players. They even have a player locator section which is quite popular. The game is published by Green Ronin and is very still much in its infancy as far as pen and paper games go. It is backed by an awesome company and even has its own form of D20 (superlink) where other people can publish M&M products. I've heard plenty of rave reviews of it but haven't had the pleasure of playing it myself. I'd really like to hear more as well from players who visit this board.

[Citadel]

I've been using it from time to time. A little fantasy, some pulp/horror, mostly in the PL4-8 range.

I'm in the process of putting some house rules up on the Articles/Blogs section of the site. The first bits should be ready in a few days.

That would be great, I'm more of a hound when it comes to new way's of thinking. If you don't mind let me know when you do.

[Citadel]

The official forums (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/) are home to hundreds of currently active M&M players. They even have a player locator section which is quite popular. The game is published by Green Ronin and is very still much in its infancy as far as pen and paper games go. It is backed by an awesome company and even has its own form of D20 (superlink) where other people can publish M&M products. I've heard plenty of rave reviews of it but haven't had the pleasure of playing it myself. I'd really like to hear more as well from players who visit this board.

Someone gave the book a few months back, and from what I gathered it's a sold game. The odd but cool thing was that there's no HP like your normal D20 games. There's just saves for damage you take and depending on the save pluss or minus the dificulty will depend on the effects. Pretty much how D6 resolved there damage system. Not to mention the wide verity of powers with multiple effects. the thing that drew me to the game was its flexability to create worlds and setting from a all fantasy to a sci fi setting just by using one book. Pretty much like Hero system but without the huge ammounts of math,

[rabkala]

The official forums (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/) are home to hundreds of currently active M&M players. They even have a player locator section which is quite popular.
Maybe somebody should go over to that site and post a bit with a PNPgames sig . Our player registry/campaign invitations are much much better! We could use some more non D&D guys around for better perspective.

[Mulsiphix]

Someone gave the book a few months back, and from what I gathered it's a sold game. The odd but cool thing was that there's no HP like your normal D20 games. There's just saves for damage you take and depending on the save pluss or minus the dificulty will depend on the effects. Pretty much how D6 resolved there damage system. Not to mention the wide verity of powers with multiple effects. the thing that drew me to the game was its flexability to create worlds and setting from a all fantasy to a sci fi setting just by using one book. Pretty much like Hero system but without the huge ammounts of math,This information got me very excited. Your passion for the system shows and has inspired me to pick up the core book. That is I plan to start looking for eBay pen and paper lots that have this baby in them. Many thanks for the review Citadel :cool:

Maybe somebody should go over to that site and post a bit with a PNPgames sig . Our player registry/campaign invitations are much much better! We could use some more non D&D guys around for better perspective.That actually isn't a bad idea. Gives me an idea for a thread. Many thanks sir ;)

[fmitchell]

The odd but cool thing was that there's no HP like your normal D20 games. There's just saves for damage you take and depending on the save pluss or minus the dificulty will depend on the effects.

Just as a point of interest, Green Ronin modified Mutants and Masterminds into the True20 system, which in some ways is a closer match for traditional fantasy or horror RPGs. It retains the "save against damage" mechanic (called Toughness) of M&M, but has levels like standard D&D (but only three primary classes, or "roles": Adept, Expert, and Warrior).

If I recall, someone even figured out how to derive True20 characters from M&M. So I guess if you want greater flexibility in character creation, go to M&M; if you want something a little more traditional for NON-superheroic play, go to True20.

(Note: I've yet to play either, but they both look interesting.)

[Citadel]

Maybe somebody should go over to that site and post a bit with a PNPgames sig . Our player registry/campaign invitations are much much better! We could use some more non D&D guys around for better perspective.


Some shameless plugs...LOL I'll see to it.

[Citadel]

Just as a point of interest, Green Ronin modified Mutants and Masterminds into the True20 system, which in some ways is a closer match for traditional fantasy or horror RPGs. It retains the "save against damage" mechanic (called Toughness) of M&M, but has levels like standard D&D (but only three primary classes, or "roles": Adept, Expert, and Warrior).

If I recall, someone even figured out how to derive True20 characters from M&M. So I guess if you want greater flexibility in character creation, go to M&M; if you want something a little more traditional for superheroic play, go to True20.

(Note: I've yet to play either, but they both look interesting.)



I haven't seen True 20 myself, but M+M alone is a solid system by it self. I'm just having hard enough time trying to find players to try something new even in a town with two million plus people. My take on it is most gamers won't touch anything that doesn't say Wizard or White Wolf on the cover *LMAO*.

[Mulsiphix]

Other than this forum, have you tried to find players locally? Craigslist.com is a great place to find people in your area, especially if your in/near a large city like I am. The website for M+M is budding with gaming possibilities. I highly recommend you put a game together, even if it is short term or just for testing purposes (mention that in the post), and trying to recruit some players through the Campaign Invetations (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17) forum ;)

[TAROT]

True 20 was something of a disappointment to me. While I liked, and have stolen some bits, (challenges, removal of ability scores), overall, it was too close to d20 for me.

(P.S. - The first section of my house rules should be going up later tonight.)

[Citadel]

True 20 was something of a disappointment to me. While I liked, and have stolen some bits, (challenges, removal of ability scores), overall, it was too close to d20 for me.

(P.S. - The first section of my house rules should be going up later tonight.)


How does it differ from M+M

[fmitchell]

I'm not at home, so I won't give you a rule-by-rule difference, but here's a rough idea.

As a general rule, the intent of M&M is to build and play superheroes, with superpowers and gagdets and so on. True20 cleaves more closely to d20's roots: classes, levels, feats, and skills.

M&M characters start with a point budget roughly correlated to the "level" of the campaign, arbitrarily set by the GM but defaulting to 10. This "level" also caps certain powers, notably attacks; for example at Level 10 you can only have up to 10 levels of Power Blast (or whatever it's called ... again, no books handy.) You buy everything with points: basic stats (often well past 18), feats, skill ranks, superpowers, super-gadgets ... anything and everything that defines your character. As with other point-buy systems, you can also sell down your stats or take on Weaknesses (is that the term?) that can hamper you at critical points.

True20 characters use point-buy for their basic stats (which, in a departure from d20 are in the range -4 to +4 or more ... think of the stat bonuses attached to d20 stats in the usual 3-18 range). Then they pick a "role": Adepts may choose a supernatural Power instead of a Feat, Experts have extra skill ranks and one better-than-average save of their choice, and Warriors have the best BAB and decent saves. Each role also has access to role-specific Feats. At each level, a character may acquire a different role freely -- essentially, multiclassing -- with BAB, saves, and skills accruing from the levels in each role.

Both use the Toughness mechanic instead of hit points, and both borrow heavily from the d20 combat system and other rules. M&M is way more flexible, but the complexity might be daunting at first. True20 is simpler for "typical" RPG worlds, but can be constraining if you're not doing typical Fantasy/Scifi/Horror with human-scale characters or find level-advancement constraining.

[Mulsiphix]

So in essence M&M is a supers game, built on a point buy system, that is extremely complex, but tailored heavily for super settings right? That is True20 is better suited for fantasy and other class based settings right?

[fmitchell]

So in essence M&M is a supers game, built on a point buy system, that is extremely complex, but tailored heavily for super settings right? That is True20 is better suited for fantasy and other class based settings right?

I wouldn't say "extremely complex". At least as simple as GURPS, and possibly simpler.

But otherwise that's right. True20 is more of a D&D/d20 Light.

[TAROT]

So in essence M&M is a supers game, built on a point buy system, that is extremely complex, but tailored heavily for super settings right? That is True20 is better suited for fantasy and other class based settings right?

M&M is a point buy system, of medium complexity, tailored for "cinematic" settings. Without the art, there is very little mechanically, that truly suggests supers.

True20 cleaves closer to D&D3.

[Citadel]

Thanks Tarot, and Fmitchell:) Yes Mulsiphix... what they said. I find it you can also create alternate worlds by using the same core book without having to buy other sorcebooks the only thing you need is time and patience. Which I have hardly any to spare. Latley I have been toying around the idea using Jim Butchers world and creating a Harry Dresden RPG using M+M. It's a very flexable system

[nijineko]

if online play near my schedule was a possibility, i would be happy to try M+M. i'm always willing to take a look at new systems. and i have a fondness for superhero games in general. let me know. =D

[Citadel]

In my search I came across this Wiki site http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Mutants&Masterminds_RPG_Wiki_Resource:Main_Page

I found it very entertaining

[kipling]

Well, I think the scaling at the low end suggests supers. The knockback also suggests supers--but yeah, it can be used for lots of other things.

[kipling]

I'd say that what Mulsiphix said is reasonably true. I'd probably put it in the middling complex category: less complex than Hero; if you have D20 experience, you should be fine but if you don't have D20 experience, then it can be confusing. (I didn't, for what it's worth.)

I came here from the Atomic Think Tank, so the summoning does work. :)

[Citadel]

I'd say that what Mulsiphix said is reasonably true. I'd probably put it in the middling complex category: less complex than Hero; if you have D20 experience, you should be fine but if you don't have D20 experience, then it can be confusing. (I didn't, for what it's worth.)

I came here from the Atomic Think Tank, so the summoning does work. :)


How did you like the game play over all?

[kipling]

I still have glitches, and I think damage is still too complicated for a supers game, but in general I liked it, and would run it again.

Actually, I wrote up the M&M adventure I ran, over on the Atomic Think Tank: http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=25541

[Citadel]

I still have glitches, and I think damage is still too complicated for a supers game, but in general I liked it, and would run it again.

Actually, I wrote up the M&M adventure I ran, over on the Atomic Think Tank: http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=25541

Oh... that was you? I remember reading that. I thought it was really good.

[kipling]

Thank you.

Of course, the players get most of the credit along with the writer of the module. I just put it all together.

[kipling]

And...I think I'll run something here, if I can figure out how. It will be in Mutants and Masterminds, so folks can see.

[Citadel]

And...I think I'll run something here, if I can figure out how. It will be in Mutants and Masterminds, so folks can see.

Shoot me a email, or pm me when your ready

[nijineko]

yes, please. contact myself as well.

[Roman Virtue]

Well, having played DC Heroes RPG, TSR's Marvel, and Marvel SAGA and having dabbled in Champions, Hero, etc. I have to say that M&M is the best super's system I've played yet!

There's somewhat of a learning curve to character creation, you catch on fairly quickly and the system makes for just about any character concept possible. Ultimate Power gives you the ability to add detail and complexity to your powers as well as the ability to create your own. Masterminds Manual gives you rule alternitives including the rules to have Hit Points if you like!
Great game, great system! I'd highly recomend it!
[/commercial]
:p

[cplmac]

Actually I prefer the peanut ones over the plain.:D

Seriously, no I don't play it. Can't justify spending a ton of money to be able to have the books and other materials that go with all the different game systems out there.

[kipling]

I do spend some money--one of the nice things about M&M is that you need only the core book, though the others are nice.

But if the genre doesn't interest you or you're not interested in the mechanics, you shouldn't own it.

Unlike some other people, I don't see it as an excellent generic system. It does superheroes very well, but while you can build a hero at lower points in Hero (not as low as before, now that Steve Long has his way), below PL 5 M&M is a bit of a pig. You might be able to do it, but the characters feel to me quite similar.

On the other hand, I don't play D&D, which means that (a) I might not have the proper appreciation for the original system at low levels and (b) I don't have the same appreciation for crunchy bits. (Heh. This from a guy who used to play Hero!)

[Webhead]

Hi, folks. Like Kipling, I'm another gamer who comes from the Mutants & Masterminds forums. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the game for those who are curious about it.

It is a very flexible, point-buy game engine of medium-high complexity that was designed for supers but serves as a fairly robust workshop for potentially any genre with a bent toward slightly more "cinematic" style action. It retains the mechanic at the "core" of the d20 system, but shows that it is not a slave to d20 by nicely doing away with classes, experience levels, hit points and attacks of opportunity which turns it into its own, distinct game engine.

In my experience, I would say it is much simpler than HERO System and even simpler than GURPS mostly due to a unified scale for ability costs and simpler combat rules. Anyone familiar with d20 will have a shorter learning curve because M&M shares a number of conventions with other d20 games. For those not familiar with d20, the very open-ended scope and number of considerations of character creation can be a little intimidating, but actual game play is much easier than character creation might suggest. Also, by its nature as a supers game, players are given a huge assortment of abilities to choose from which leaves the possibility for potential imbalance. So M&M game masters should be aware of that and steer players away from builds that would be inappropriate or disruptive for the campaign.

By the nature of its "effects-based" engine for powers, it provides this genre flexibility due to the fact that the rules tell you what the power "does", but leave the description of what the power "is" up to the players. (Example: the "Blast" power is simply any ranged attack that deals damage. This could be Superman's heat vision, but it could also be a Star Trek phaser, a harpoon gun, a revolver, etc.)

It is a very good game for people looking for a fairly "granular" rules set to build from. I say "granular" because the system gets detailed enough that it allows you, within the rules, to adjust elements of each power such as range, duration, if/how it is resisted, action required to use it, and more. It is, in my opinion, the most inspired and solidly built game to come out of the d20 system. Whether you use it for supers or not, it provides an incredible range of possibilities while remaining streamlined and intuitive enough to encourage fast-flowing dice resolution.

[joshuadunlow]

I was just curious if anyone play's Mutants and masterminds here? There doesn't seem to be a large community. I guess if it doesn't say wizards d20 it doesn't deserve a chance LOL. Thats trully a shame for such a great system.

For those who do some how draw your selves from the norm and do play M+M. Tell me about your campaign, what are your characters like, what you like about the system, and tell me what you don't like. Lets face it not everyone agrees even in democracy. So give me your rants and raves


Im a big time Mutants & Masterminds fan. Majorly, i think it's the best system out there. Besides doing a standard four color, super hero setting. I like to use MnM for fantasy conversions.

Here is a link (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=19508) to my thread on the official MnM forums.

What do i like about it? Flexibility to make what i want. What i don't like it ? I don't think there's anything i don't really like about it. Its fast, easy, and quick paced once you get used to the system.

[Cortosis]

When I was on vacation to New York, I bought Mutants and Masterminds :D I'm still a newbie in it (have played D&D and SWSE a lot though), in my first adventure I was the GM and the two players were on a train station. Suddenly a train came in at high speed and it was about to crash into another train if one of the heroes didn't telekineticly stop it.

Soon after that a mysterious cloaked man stepped out of the damaged front of the train and tries to escape. He is stopped by the other hero just outside of the train station and reveils himself to be "The Troll", some sort of Hulk-ish villain. He is a very disgusting man who picks his nose and beats everything up that moves as The Troll when he is angry. Otherwise he is a very intelligent and friendly man. :lol:

The telekinetic hero commands The Troll with his psychic powers and asks him about why he sabotaged the train. He speaks of some mysterious guy by the name of Dr.X. Then the team meets up with another NPC who saw it all happen. He is also trying to deal with this so called Dr.X and asks if the players would like to help him. He is a superhero who can transform in a giant insect.

During the plot they are going to discover that the insect-man is actually the real villain and that Dr.X is the one who tries to stop him before he takes over the world with ancient artifacts (one of them was in the sabotaged train) At this moment i'm also starting up a play-by-post campaign on another forum that is going to involve aliens of the taking-over-the-world kind.

What I like about M&M
- It is very open, I can do everything I want with it to create my character the way I want him to be. And I am not limited to classes or a spell list, or only a few skill points and feats.
- Being a superhero or portraying the supervillains
- It is very simple to play with only 1d20
- Powers can be customized with flaws and powerfeats etc.

What I don't like about M&M
- combat is too complex (lethal and nonlethal, staggered? stunned?!) at least if you're not used to it yet.
- I want to roll my other dice to :(
- powergaming is waaaay too easy
- It is not very inviting, it appears way too difficult to understand if you first see it. It also doesn't explain clearly to newbies like me where I should begin.

[Webhead]

...What I don't like about M&M
- combat is too complex (lethal and nonlethal, staggered? stunned?!) at least if you're not used to it yet...

Because it is so different from more common "hit point" systems, it does take a little while for some folks to get used to. Once you're familiar with it however, it is very good (and one of my favorite "damage" systems). Plus, there's rules for converting to Hit Points if you really want to, but why would you go and mess up M&M by doing something like that? :nono:


- I want to roll my other dice to :(

I like being able to roll only a single d20 for everything...quick and easy. But to each his own. :)


- powergaming is waaaay too easy

Virtually all supers RPGs (and indeed, most point-based character gen systems) have this problem. With the nearly unlimited options comes nearly unlimited opportunity to min/max. That's where the GM needs to step in.

M&M does take a step in the right direction though, by introducing "Power Level Limits" so that characters are reasonably balanced against one another and can't dump all of their points into one power to make it uber bad.


- It is not very inviting, it appears way too difficult to understand if you first see it. It also doesn't explain clearly to newbies like me where I should begin.

Because it's a supers RPG, there are not really any established boundaries, which can be intimidating for some. You can play it anywhere from the Silver Surfer to the Watchmen and you just set the Power Levels, expectations, limits and themes accordingly. The game doesn't really focus on a lot of advice on "how" to play, it just gives you the sandbox and says "here, build what you want".

That said, there are many, many good sourcebooks that Green Ronin publishes that go into specific detail on different genres and themes for your M&M games. Check them out if you are so inclined. Most of them are very good. I own most of them, so if you are in need of opinions on a particular book, please let me know.

If you can't tell, I like M&M a lot because it is full of possibilities and options, but it is less complex than some similar alternatives like GURPS or HERO.

[Thoth-Amon]

Never played Mutants and Masterminds myself, but after reading throught this thread, i'm taking a more serious look. I am aware of a game that goes on not to far from my location and have already sent an email asking for a seat in their game. I'll get back to you all on my experiences. Game on!

Thoth-Amon

[Webhead]

Never played Mutants and Masterminds myself, but after reading throught this thread, i'm taking a more serious look. I am aware of a game that goes on not to far from my location and have already sent an email asking for a seat in their game. I'll get back to you all on my experiences. Game on!

Thoth-Amon

Very cool and I hope your experiences are good ones. If you should have any questions about M&M, feel free to ask as I'd be happy to offer assistance.

If you are going to end up picking up a copy of the corebook, I suggest making sure that the copy is the 3rd or 4th printing. Those printings have been updated with all the current corrections and errata. You can tell by checking the inside pages at the front near where the contributors and playtesters are listed.

[Thoth-Amon]

Thanks for the suggestions, i will pick up a later printing of the book, as per your recommendations.

Thoth-Amon

[Webhead]

Thanks for the suggestions, i will pick up a later printing of the book, as per your recommendations.

Thoth-Amon

As soon as I can locate one, I'm going to be picking up a copy of the 4th printing of the book to replace the 1st printing (and slightly chewed) copy that I currently have. I don't like having to carry errata sheets around with me if at all possible...even if it is relatively small compared to some other errata documents that I've known...