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Citadel
02-09-2008, 01:53 PM
I was just curious if anyone play's Mutants and masterminds here? There doesn't seem to be a large community. I guess if it doesn't say wizards d20 it doesn't deserve a chance LOL. Thats trully a shame for such a great system.

For those who do some how draw your selves from the norm and do play M+M. Tell me about your campaign, what are your characters like, what you like about the system, and tell me what you don't like. Lets face it not everyone agrees even in democracy. So give me your rants and raves

TAROT
02-09-2008, 08:25 PM
I've been using it from time to time. A little fantasy, some pulp/horror, mostly in the PL4-8 range.

I'm in the process of putting some house rules up on the Articles/Blogs section of the site. The first bits should be ready in a few days.

Mulsiphix
02-09-2008, 11:41 PM
The official forums (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/) are home to hundreds of currently active M&M players. They even have a player locator section which is quite popular. The game is published by Green Ronin and is very still much in its infancy as far as pen and paper games go. It is backed by an awesome company and even has its own form of D20 (superlink) where other people can publish M&M products. I've heard plenty of rave reviews of it but haven't had the pleasure of playing it myself. I'd really like to hear more as well from players who visit this board.

Citadel
02-10-2008, 12:53 PM
I've been using it from time to time. A little fantasy, some pulp/horror, mostly in the PL4-8 range.

I'm in the process of putting some house rules up on the Articles/Blogs section of the site. The first bits should be ready in a few days.

That would be great, I'm more of a hound when it comes to new way's of thinking. If you don't mind let me know when you do.

Citadel
02-10-2008, 01:06 PM
The official forums (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/) are home to hundreds of currently active M&M players. They even have a player locator section which is quite popular. The game is published by Green Ronin and is very still much in its infancy as far as pen and paper games go. It is backed by an awesome company and even has its own form of D20 (superlink) where other people can publish M&M products. I've heard plenty of rave reviews of it but haven't had the pleasure of playing it myself. I'd really like to hear more as well from players who visit this board.

Someone gave the book a few months back, and from what I gathered it's a sold game. The odd but cool thing was that there's no HP like your normal D20 games. There's just saves for damage you take and depending on the save pluss or minus the dificulty will depend on the effects. Pretty much how D6 resolved there damage system. Not to mention the wide verity of powers with multiple effects. the thing that drew me to the game was its flexability to create worlds and setting from a all fantasy to a sci fi setting just by using one book. Pretty much like Hero system but without the huge ammounts of math,

rabkala
02-10-2008, 05:46 PM
The official forums (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/) are home to hundreds of currently active M&M players. They even have a player locator section which is quite popular.
Maybe somebody should go over to that site and post a bit with a PNPgames sig . Our player registry/campaign invitations are much much better! We could use some more non D&D guys around for better perspective.

Mulsiphix
02-10-2008, 09:08 PM
Someone gave the book a few months back, and from what I gathered it's a sold game. The odd but cool thing was that there's no HP like your normal D20 games. There's just saves for damage you take and depending on the save pluss or minus the dificulty will depend on the effects. Pretty much how D6 resolved there damage system. Not to mention the wide verity of powers with multiple effects. the thing that drew me to the game was its flexability to create worlds and setting from a all fantasy to a sci fi setting just by using one book. Pretty much like Hero system but without the huge ammounts of math,This information got me very excited. Your passion for the system shows and has inspired me to pick up the core book. That is I plan to start looking for eBay pen and paper lots that have this baby in them. Many thanks for the review Citadel :cool:


Maybe somebody should go over to that site and post a bit with a PNPgames sig . Our player registry/campaign invitations are much much better! We could use some more non D&D guys around for better perspective.That actually isn't a bad idea. Gives me an idea for a thread. Many thanks sir ;)

fmitchell
02-11-2008, 01:23 AM
The odd but cool thing was that there's no HP like your normal D20 games. There's just saves for damage you take and depending on the save pluss or minus the dificulty will depend on the effects.

Just as a point of interest, Green Ronin modified Mutants and Masterminds into the True20 system, which in some ways is a closer match for traditional fantasy or horror RPGs. It retains the "save against damage" mechanic (called Toughness) of M&M, but has levels like standard D&D (but only three primary classes, or "roles": Adept, Expert, and Warrior).

If I recall, someone even figured out how to derive True20 characters from M&M. So I guess if you want greater flexibility in character creation, go to M&M; if you want something a little more traditional for NON-superheroic play, go to True20.

(Note: I've yet to play either, but they both look interesting.)

Citadel
02-11-2008, 12:22 PM
Maybe somebody should go over to that site and post a bit with a PNPgames sig . Our player registry/campaign invitations are much much better! We could use some more non D&D guys around for better perspective.


Some shameless plugs...LOL I'll see to it.

Citadel
02-11-2008, 12:41 PM
Just as a point of interest, Green Ronin modified Mutants and Masterminds into the True20 system, which in some ways is a closer match for traditional fantasy or horror RPGs. It retains the "save against damage" mechanic (called Toughness) of M&M, but has levels like standard D&D (but only three primary classes, or "roles": Adept, Expert, and Warrior).

If I recall, someone even figured out how to derive True20 characters from M&M. So I guess if you want greater flexibility in character creation, go to M&M; if you want something a little more traditional for superheroic play, go to True20.

(Note: I've yet to play either, but they both look interesting.)



I haven't seen True 20 myself, but M+M alone is a solid system by it self. I'm just having hard enough time trying to find players to try something new even in a town with two million plus people. My take on it is most gamers won't touch anything that doesn't say Wizard or White Wolf on the cover *LMAO*.

Mulsiphix
02-11-2008, 02:42 PM
Other than this forum, have you tried to find players locally? Craigslist.com is a great place to find people in your area, especially if your in/near a large city like I am. The website for M+M is budding with gaming possibilities. I highly recommend you put a game together, even if it is short term or just for testing purposes (mention that in the post), and trying to recruit some players through the Campaign Invetations (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17) forum ;)

TAROT
02-11-2008, 11:42 PM
True 20 was something of a disappointment to me. While I liked, and have stolen some bits, (challenges, removal of ability scores), overall, it was too close to d20 for me.

(P.S. - The first section of my house rules should be going up later tonight.)

Citadel
02-12-2008, 11:03 AM
True 20 was something of a disappointment to me. While I liked, and have stolen some bits, (challenges, removal of ability scores), overall, it was too close to d20 for me.

(P.S. - The first section of my house rules should be going up later tonight.)


How does it differ from M+M

fmitchell
02-12-2008, 05:44 PM
I'm not at home, so I won't give you a rule-by-rule difference, but here's a rough idea.

As a general rule, the intent of M&M is to build and play superheroes, with superpowers and gagdets and so on. True20 cleaves more closely to d20's roots: classes, levels, feats, and skills.

M&M characters start with a point budget roughly correlated to the "level" of the campaign, arbitrarily set by the GM but defaulting to 10. This "level" also caps certain powers, notably attacks; for example at Level 10 you can only have up to 10 levels of Power Blast (or whatever it's called ... again, no books handy.) You buy everything with points: basic stats (often well past 18), feats, skill ranks, superpowers, super-gadgets ... anything and everything that defines your character. As with other point-buy systems, you can also sell down your stats or take on Weaknesses (is that the term?) that can hamper you at critical points.

True20 characters use point-buy for their basic stats (which, in a departure from d20 are in the range -4 to +4 or more ... think of the stat bonuses attached to d20 stats in the usual 3-18 range). Then they pick a "role": Adepts may choose a supernatural Power instead of a Feat, Experts have extra skill ranks and one better-than-average save of their choice, and Warriors have the best BAB and decent saves. Each role also has access to role-specific Feats. At each level, a character may acquire a different role freely -- essentially, multiclassing -- with BAB, saves, and skills accruing from the levels in each role.

Both use the Toughness mechanic instead of hit points, and both borrow heavily from the d20 combat system and other rules. M&M is way more flexible, but the complexity might be daunting at first. True20 is simpler for "typical" RPG worlds, but can be constraining if you're not doing typical Fantasy/Scifi/Horror with human-scale characters or find level-advancement constraining.

Mulsiphix
02-12-2008, 08:30 PM
So in essence M&M is a supers game, built on a point buy system, that is extremely complex, but tailored heavily for super settings right? That is True20 is better suited for fantasy and other class based settings right?

fmitchell
02-12-2008, 09:31 PM
So in essence M&M is a supers game, built on a point buy system, that is extremely complex, but tailored heavily for super settings right? That is True20 is better suited for fantasy and other class based settings right?

I wouldn't say "extremely complex". At least as simple as GURPS, and possibly simpler.

But otherwise that's right. True20 is more of a D&D/d20 Light.

TAROT
02-13-2008, 01:34 AM
So in essence M&M is a supers game, built on a point buy system, that is extremely complex, but tailored heavily for super settings right? That is True20 is better suited for fantasy and other class based settings right?

M&M is a point buy system, of medium complexity, tailored for "cinematic" settings. Without the art, there is very little mechanically, that truly suggests supers.

True20 cleaves closer to D&D3.

Citadel
02-13-2008, 06:07 PM
Thanks Tarot, and Fmitchell:) Yes Mulsiphix... what they said. I find it you can also create alternate worlds by using the same core book without having to buy other sorcebooks the only thing you need is time and patience. Which I have hardly any to spare. Latley I have been toying around the idea using Jim Butchers world and creating a Harry Dresden RPG using M+M. It's a very flexable system

nijineko
02-14-2008, 03:12 AM
if online play near my schedule was a possibility, i would be happy to try M+M. i'm always willing to take a look at new systems. and i have a fondness for superhero games in general. let me know. =D

Citadel
02-14-2008, 01:45 PM
In my search I came across this Wiki site http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Mutants&Masterminds_RPG_Wiki_Resource:Main_Page

I found it very entertaining

kipling
02-17-2008, 09:00 PM
Well, I think the scaling at the low end suggests supers. The knockback also suggests supers--but yeah, it can be used for lots of other things.

kipling
02-19-2008, 11:06 AM
I'd say that what Mulsiphix said is reasonably true. I'd probably put it in the middling complex category: less complex than Hero; if you have D20 experience, you should be fine but if you don't have D20 experience, then it can be confusing. (I didn't, for what it's worth.)

I came here from the Atomic Think Tank, so the summoning does work. :)

Citadel
02-19-2008, 12:26 PM
I'd say that what Mulsiphix said is reasonably true. I'd probably put it in the middling complex category: less complex than Hero; if you have D20 experience, you should be fine but if you don't have D20 experience, then it can be confusing. (I didn't, for what it's worth.)

I came here from the Atomic Think Tank, so the summoning does work. :)


How did you like the game play over all?

kipling
02-19-2008, 01:13 PM
I still have glitches, and I think damage is still too complicated for a supers game, but in general I liked it, and would run it again.

Actually, I wrote up the M&M adventure I ran, over on the Atomic Think Tank: http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=25541

Citadel
02-19-2008, 06:20 PM
I still have glitches, and I think damage is still too complicated for a supers game, but in general I liked it, and would run it again.

Actually, I wrote up the M&M adventure I ran, over on the Atomic Think Tank: http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=25541

Oh... that was you? I remember reading that. I thought it was really good.

kipling
02-19-2008, 07:43 PM
Thank you.

Of course, the players get most of the credit along with the writer of the module. I just put it all together.

kipling
02-21-2008, 12:33 AM
And...I think I'll run something here, if I can figure out how. It will be in Mutants and Masterminds, so folks can see.

Citadel
02-21-2008, 10:01 AM
And...I think I'll run something here, if I can figure out how. It will be in Mutants and Masterminds, so folks can see.

Shoot me a email, or pm me when your ready

nijineko
02-23-2008, 04:15 AM
yes, please. contact myself as well.

Roman Virtue
03-17-2008, 02:21 AM
Well, having played DC Heroes RPG, TSR's Marvel, and Marvel SAGA and having dabbled in Champions, Hero, etc. I have to say that M&M is the best super's system I've played yet!

There's somewhat of a learning curve to character creation, you catch on fairly quickly and the system makes for just about any character concept possible. Ultimate Power gives you the ability to add detail and complexity to your powers as well as the ability to create your own. Masterminds Manual gives you rule alternitives including the rules to have Hit Points if you like!
Great game, great system! I'd highly recomend it!
[/commercial]
:p

cplmac
03-19-2008, 12:55 PM
Actually I prefer the peanut ones over the plain.:D

Seriously, no I don't play it. Can't justify spending a ton of money to be able to have the books and other materials that go with all the different game systems out there.

kipling
03-19-2008, 01:12 PM
I do spend some money--one of the nice things about M&M is that you need only the core book, though the others are nice.

But if the genre doesn't interest you or you're not interested in the mechanics, you shouldn't own it.

Unlike some other people, I don't see it as an excellent generic system. It does superheroes very well, but while you can build a hero at lower points in Hero (not as low as before, now that Steve Long has his way), below PL 5 M&M is a bit of a pig. You might be able to do it, but the characters feel to me quite similar.

On the other hand, I don't play D&D, which means that (a) I might not have the proper appreciation for the original system at low levels and (b) I don't have the same appreciation for crunchy bits. (Heh. This from a guy who used to play Hero!)

Webhead
03-19-2008, 10:06 PM
Hi, folks. Like Kipling, I'm another gamer who comes from the Mutants & Masterminds forums. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the game for those who are curious about it.

It is a very flexible, point-buy game engine of medium-high complexity that was designed for supers but serves as a fairly robust workshop for potentially any genre with a bent toward slightly more "cinematic" style action. It retains the mechanic at the "core" of the d20 system, but shows that it is not a slave to d20 by nicely doing away with classes, experience levels, hit points and attacks of opportunity which turns it into its own, distinct game engine.

In my experience, I would say it is much simpler than HERO System and even simpler than GURPS mostly due to a unified scale for ability costs and simpler combat rules. Anyone familiar with d20 will have a shorter learning curve because M&M shares a number of conventions with other d20 games. For those not familiar with d20, the very open-ended scope and number of considerations of character creation can be a little intimidating, but actual game play is much easier than character creation might suggest. Also, by its nature as a supers game, players are given a huge assortment of abilities to choose from which leaves the possibility for potential imbalance. So M&M game masters should be aware of that and steer players away from builds that would be inappropriate or disruptive for the campaign.

By the nature of its "effects-based" engine for powers, it provides this genre flexibility due to the fact that the rules tell you what the power "does", but leave the description of what the power "is" up to the players. (Example: the "Blast" power is simply any ranged attack that deals damage. This could be Superman's heat vision, but it could also be a Star Trek phaser, a harpoon gun, a revolver, etc.)

It is a very good game for people looking for a fairly "granular" rules set to build from. I say "granular" because the system gets detailed enough that it allows you, within the rules, to adjust elements of each power such as range, duration, if/how it is resisted, action required to use it, and more. It is, in my opinion, the most inspired and solidly built game to come out of the d20 system. Whether you use it for supers or not, it provides an incredible range of possibilities while remaining streamlined and intuitive enough to encourage fast-flowing dice resolution.

joshuadunlow
03-29-2008, 04:46 PM
I was just curious if anyone play's Mutants and masterminds here? There doesn't seem to be a large community. I guess if it doesn't say wizards d20 it doesn't deserve a chance LOL. Thats trully a shame for such a great system.

For those who do some how draw your selves from the norm and do play M+M. Tell me about your campaign, what are your characters like, what you like about the system, and tell me what you don't like. Lets face it not everyone agrees even in democracy. So give me your rants and raves


Im a big time Mutants & Masterminds fan. Majorly, i think it's the best system out there. Besides doing a standard four color, super hero setting. I like to use MnM for fantasy conversions.

Here is a link (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=19508) to my thread on the official MnM forums.

What do i like about it? Flexibility to make what i want. What i don't like it ? I don't think there's anything i don't really like about it. Its fast, easy, and quick paced once you get used to the system.

Cortosis
08-29-2008, 04:05 PM
When I was on vacation to New York, I bought Mutants and Masterminds :D I'm still a newbie in it (have played D&D and SWSE a lot though), in my first adventure I was the GM and the two players were on a train station. Suddenly a train came in at high speed and it was about to crash into another train if one of the heroes didn't telekineticly stop it.

Soon after that a mysterious cloaked man stepped out of the damaged front of the train and tries to escape. He is stopped by the other hero just outside of the train station and reveils himself to be "The Troll", some sort of Hulk-ish villain. He is a very disgusting man who picks his nose and beats everything up that moves as The Troll when he is angry. Otherwise he is a very intelligent and friendly man. :lol:

The telekinetic hero commands The Troll with his psychic powers and asks him about why he sabotaged the train. He speaks of some mysterious guy by the name of Dr.X. Then the team meets up with another NPC who saw it all happen. He is also trying to deal with this so called Dr.X and asks if the players would like to help him. He is a superhero who can transform in a giant insect.

During the plot they are going to discover that the insect-man is actually the real villain and that Dr.X is the one who tries to stop him before he takes over the world with ancient artifacts (one of them was in the sabotaged train) At this moment i'm also starting up a play-by-post campaign on another forum that is going to involve aliens of the taking-over-the-world kind.

What I like about M&M
- It is very open, I can do everything I want with it to create my character the way I want him to be. And I am not limited to classes or a spell list, or only a few skill points and feats.
- Being a superhero or portraying the supervillains
- It is very simple to play with only 1d20
- Powers can be customized with flaws and powerfeats etc.

What I don't like about M&M
- combat is too complex (lethal and nonlethal, staggered? stunned?!) at least if you're not used to it yet.
- I want to roll my other dice to :(
- powergaming is waaaay too easy
- It is not very inviting, it appears way too difficult to understand if you first see it. It also doesn't explain clearly to newbies like me where I should begin.

Webhead
08-29-2008, 04:55 PM
...What I don't like about M&M
- combat is too complex (lethal and nonlethal, staggered? stunned?!) at least if you're not used to it yet...

Because it is so different from more common "hit point" systems, it does take a little while for some folks to get used to. Once you're familiar with it however, it is very good (and one of my favorite "damage" systems). Plus, there's rules for converting to Hit Points if you really want to, but why would you go and mess up M&M by doing something like that? :nono:



- I want to roll my other dice to :(

I like being able to roll only a single d20 for everything...quick and easy. But to each his own. :)



- powergaming is waaaay too easy

Virtually all supers RPGs (and indeed, most point-based character gen systems) have this problem. With the nearly unlimited options comes nearly unlimited opportunity to min/max. That's where the GM needs to step in.

M&M does take a step in the right direction though, by introducing "Power Level Limits" so that characters are reasonably balanced against one another and can't dump all of their points into one power to make it uber bad.



- It is not very inviting, it appears way too difficult to understand if you first see it. It also doesn't explain clearly to newbies like me where I should begin.

Because it's a supers RPG, there are not really any established boundaries, which can be intimidating for some. You can play it anywhere from the Silver Surfer to the Watchmen and you just set the Power Levels, expectations, limits and themes accordingly. The game doesn't really focus on a lot of advice on "how" to play, it just gives you the sandbox and says "here, build what you want".

That said, there are many, many good sourcebooks that Green Ronin publishes that go into specific detail on different genres and themes for your M&M games. Check them out if you are so inclined. Most of them are very good. I own most of them, so if you are in need of opinions on a particular book, please let me know.

If you can't tell, I like M&M a lot because it is full of possibilities and options, but it is less complex than some similar alternatives like GURPS or HERO.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
08-29-2008, 06:04 PM
Never played Mutants and Masterminds myself, but after reading throught this thread, i'm taking a more serious look. I am aware of a game that goes on not to far from my location and have already sent an email asking for a seat in their game. I'll get back to you all on my experiences. Game on!

Thoth-Amon

Webhead
08-29-2008, 07:30 PM
Never played Mutants and Masterminds myself, but after reading throught this thread, i'm taking a more serious look. I am aware of a game that goes on not to far from my location and have already sent an email asking for a seat in their game. I'll get back to you all on my experiences. Game on!

Thoth-Amon

Very cool and I hope your experiences are good ones. If you should have any questions about M&M, feel free to ask as I'd be happy to offer assistance.

If you are going to end up picking up a copy of the corebook, I suggest making sure that the copy is the 3rd or 4th printing. Those printings have been updated with all the current corrections and errata. You can tell by checking the inside pages at the front near where the contributors and playtesters are listed.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
08-29-2008, 07:35 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, i will pick up a later printing of the book, as per your recommendations.

Thoth-Amon

Webhead
08-30-2008, 12:50 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, i will pick up a later printing of the book, as per your recommendations.

Thoth-Amon

As soon as I can locate one, I'm going to be picking up a copy of the 4th printing of the book to replace the 1st printing (and slightly chewed) copy that I currently have. I don't like having to carry errata sheets around with me if at all possible...even if it is relatively small compared to some other errata documents that I've known...

protonboy
11-18-2008, 11:42 PM
... Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the game for those who are curious about it. ... By the nature of its "effects-based" engine for powers, it provides this genre flexibility due to the fact that the rules tell you what the power "does", but leave the description of what the power "is" up to the players. (Example: the "Blast" power is simply any ranged attack that deals damage. This could be Superman's heat vision, but it could also be a Star Trek phaser, a harpoon gun, a revolver, etc.) ....
.....It is, in my opinion, the most inspired and solidly built game to come out of the d20 system. Whether you use it for supers or not, it provides an incredible range of possibilities while remaining streamlined and intuitive enough to encourage fast-flowing dice resolution.
WoW
That is the best summary of why M&M is a great super game i've ever read.

The only thing missing from the core rule book is more guideance for the GM. What kind of call's to make about how to pull off the type of super game you want to run.

This is no reason to ditch this system. - its strong enough that even without this aid, it allows for mistakes to happen and get corrected with little fuss. Though this might just be the trial an error sort of system.

The stronger your concept of the type of supersystem ur running the easier it is to see what aspects need to be reinged in.

just my ramblings - overall - this is a great system.

Personaly, Extra effort, and Hero Points (nothing like action points) make this the most super-heroric system i've seen. You can push your powers like in comic books to pull off stunts ur hero doesn't do every day. where in other systems, if its not on ur character sheet, ur out of luck.

Webhead
11-19-2008, 09:37 AM
Thank you.

Yes, I have much love for M&M which is made so tragic by the fact that I almost never get to play it. I have only run two short-lived campaigns (6 sessions or less) and a handful of one-shots since I picked up the game when it was first released back in 2002.

Back at that time, I was really on the lookout for a solid, fun, quality supers game and spent several months looking around. I considered Champions, GURPS Supers, Aberrant, Deeds Not Words, Marvel Super Heroes, DC Heroes, DC Universe and a host of ill-conceived d20 supers games during the "third party d20" craze. I happened across M&M by accident as I was browsing a local bookseller. I cracked it open and was instantly intrigued by what I saw, both in the book's fantastic art and design quality and the wonderfully straightforward, yet tweakable rules. The release of 2nd Edition in 2005 made an already great game even better. It remains, to this day, one of my favorite game systems ever.

Webhead
11-21-2008, 12:43 PM
Well, I finally did it. I found a copy of the 4th printing of the core book and I decided to pick it up. Anal-retentive as I am, I compared it side-by-side with the current errata sheet to make sure all the changes were reflected in the new book. 99% of them were. There was only one significant correction on the errata that didn't make it into the book and that was on the powers table (page 72, I think) where the incorrect duration was still printed for the "Gestalt" power. The power's actual listing later on in the chapter was corrected, just not the listing on the master table. The only other changes that got skipped over were two or three of the minion stat blocks where a point was raised or lowered here or there.

Everything else being fixed means you can throw out that errata sheet and feel confident that the RAW is all you need to run an accurate representation of the game. I hate errata sheets, so this is big news for me. Now I just have to figure out the best way to recoup a little cash from my 1st printing copy.

Webhead
11-21-2008, 01:00 PM
...Personaly, Extra effort, and Hero Points (nothing like action points) make this the most super-heroric system i've seen. You can push your powers like in comic books to pull off stunts ur hero doesn't do every day. where in other systems, if its not on ur character sheet, ur out of luck.

I too, really love the elements of Extra Effort and Hero Points. As you mentioned, they give a mechanic for characters to pull off the kinds of cool stunts that you always see heroes do in the comic books that wouldn't normally be a part of their "everyday" power use.

Ultimately, they encourage players to get creative with their powers and not fall into cookie-cutter types of roles. How cool is it to think that your character, who normally can't fly, might, in a pinch, be able to aim his "Blast" power at the ground beneath him and rocket into the air (using Extra Effort to gain the "Leaping" or "Flight" power)? Or a speedster use his Super-Speed to create a tornado? Heroes in the comics use their powers in creative and unexpected ways all the time. It's great that M&M allows players to do the same pretty painlessly.

Guardian
12-15-2008, 06:24 PM
I too, love Mutants and Masterminds. I've always wanted to have a supers system to run. My first experiment was Blood of Heroes.....ugh......

You want to talk about complicated? That system was complicated! OV/RV, AV/EV.....my players were killing things just trying to subdue the villains! And if you didn't have powers in that system....then there was almost no point in playing (please note, this is just from my personal experience; I'm sure others that might have played this system have seen otherwise). The skills were also nightmarish, as were the way damage was calculated. Your body score...that's how much you could take before you went down (the average joe schmoe was 2's across the board).

After finding M&M, I couldn't believe how....simple it was! I loved it! The only gripe one of my players had was how he simply preferred hit points in any RPG he played, but no one else seemed to mind the system. Is powergaming simple? Yeah, but again, it's up to the GM to set power level limits for the players. But I do love how any hero - powered or non, can be useful in combat against villains.

Webhead
12-16-2008, 09:58 AM
I too, love Mutants and Masterminds. I've always wanted to have a supers system to run. My first experiment was Blood of Heroes.....ugh......

You want to talk about complicated? That system was complicated! OV/RV, AV/EV.....my players were killing things just trying to subdue the villains! And if you didn't have powers in that system....then there was almost no point in playing (please note, this is just from my personal experience; I'm sure others that might have played this system have seen otherwise). The skills were also nightmarish, as were the way damage was calculated. Your body score...that's how much you could take before you went down (the average joe schmoe was 2's across the board)...

While I've never read Blood of Heroes and what changes (if any) it made to the MEGS rules system, I have liked my limited experience with that system as it was presented in the DC Heroes RPG. But you raise some valid points.

MEGS is not a game for running "non-powered" games. It does fine with low-level or "street-level" supers and even non-powered supers like Batman, Robin, Night Thrasher, etc, but it is not really intended for the "average joe" games.

I actually liked how MEGS uses a character's BODY score to determine health. They are essentially hit points if you think about it. You can take a number of "ranks" of damage equal to your BODY before you are knocked out. Want to be able to take a lot of damage? Take a high BODY score (and/or defensive powers). Simple.

Also, I'm not sure of the exact circumstances, but killing the villains while trying to subdue them should almost never happen unless the players or GM are inclined to make it so. Much like M&M, for "heroic" games MEGS assumes that all heroes are using "stunning" or "non-lethal" combat against their foes. Such attacks can reduce a character to 0 BODY (thus knocking them out), but will never reduce a character below 0. Heroic PCs can choose to instead declare that an attack is "killing combat" which can reduce BODY below 0 and thus potentially kill the target. For "heroic" games however, MEGS enforces the genre conventions that true heroes never use lethal force and thus any hero who chooses to use "killing combat" forfeits all Hero Point rewards for the adventure (similar to Marvel Super Heroes "Karma" system).

There were some elements of the system that were a little complex, but there were also elements that were nicely streamlined. I especially liked the way APs (Attribute Points) interacted and that everything in the game was measured in them. It made it supremely easy to figure things that were otherwise daunting such as exactly how long it would take a character to travel a certain distance or how far somebody could throw something of a certain weight.

My feelings are that, overall, M&M is probably a slightly more polished and flexible game and my game of choice for running supers campaigns. But I do find myself missing certain aspects of DC Heroes' (MEGS') uniformity and streamlining and considering running the game again.

Guardian
12-19-2008, 05:15 PM
As I said, to each their own. I just really felt that the Blood of Heroes system was far too complicated for me. Not only did I read it twice, but I had two other players read it themselves. And each of us walked away with different interpretations of the entire system and its rules.

Even in the Blood of Heroes system, however, it is still possible to kill someone even if you're "pulling your punches". I will say this - if you're doing a one shot, it's a good system to use.

The old TSR Marvel system (which I also ran and played) I felt was a bit better than the Blood of Heroes system. Yes, Karma was a bit clunky, but it was a bit easier to grasp the rules I felt personally.

I'm not trying to denounce one system over the other; that's not my intention. But I have played a few of the Super Hero systems out there, and have found M&M to be the best of them all.

Wulvaine
07-28-2009, 03:20 AM
I love M&M. However, I haven't gotten to play it very much, and I don't feel quite qualified to GM for a group myself yet, so it's a bit of a catch-22 at the moment.

But I love the flexibility and simplicity of the system. The first RPG I ever played was a Hero System 5E supers game that only lasted about three sessions (because my friend's dad was our GM, and he doesn't follow through; he comes up with an idea, runs a couple sessions, and then lets it die, sadly). *Cringe* It was fun, but it was kind of like being taught to swim by being shoved into the deep end.

I'd had a bit of experience in character design before that, but I hadn't ever gotten to play.

So when I picked up M&M, I was amazed at how streamlined it was in comparison.

kurtthedm
08-02-2009, 09:56 PM
I would like to play an MM game, since the last campaign I was in lasted for only 2 sessions and ended on a cliffhanger.

Webhead
08-03-2009, 10:10 PM
I would like to play an MM game, since the last campaign I was in lasted for only 2 sessions and ended on a cliffhanger.

Mostly due to timing and circumstances, my attempts to run an M&M campaign have tended to come up similarly short. Here's a list of my M&M campaign attempts:

1st Campaign: (1st Edition) - 6 sessions before one player's immaturity and temper brought it to a crashing halt

2nd Campaign: (2nd Edition) - 3 sessions before half the players could no longer attend and the game fizzled

3rd Campaign: (2nd Edition) - 2 sessions, run by a friend, a game set in a very "dark and gritty" type of world and the PCs were rather dysfunctional. GM moved away shortly thereafter and game never resurfaced

4th Campaign: (2nd Edition) - 2 sessions of a PbP solo campaign before schedule conflicts put it on hiatus

And sprinkled inbetween those are a few various one-shots, usually with only one or two players involved.

Yes, M&M is among my list of "most-loved yet least-played" RPGs. I would love for an opportunity to run a good solid campaign in the near future.

kurtthedm
08-04-2009, 05:25 PM
I would be up for one.

LordChicken
08-07-2009, 01:36 PM
Well if somone Can put up a PBP we could get a lota people up, just need more then one GM.(in case one leaves) ide play and invite my D&D friends

Marley117
08-14-2009, 10:58 PM
I absolutely love M&M. MY small group and I played a home brew campaign that I came up with with a friend of mine. He and I sat up for hours, just talking about this world that mixed sci-fi and super powers.

Basically we had used up earth, and it was about to fall apart. An alien race (I can't remember what we called them) made contact with us. They were in much the same problem. With our combined technology we managed to set off and both races intermingled. The aliens were much like humans, only taller and longer lived. They exhibited odd characteristcs, psionics and such. Humanity had those same things, but we just hadn't learned to harness it.

Anyway, the two races intermingled, and settled on a group of planets. The combining of the two created a mutt breed, which had weird powers that niether race had ( enter player characters)

It didn't matter how much of a mutt you were. Just some mutts had these weird things. Anyway there was a civil war, humanity rebelled, and the two races split, leaving the mutts in between. Humanity became almost xenophobic, and exhiled or killed anyone who was 'tainted'

The players are ona moon created to help train and protect these mutant kids, called the Acadamy.

Anyway...sorry about the rambling. It was a lot of fun though. I would love to play a pbp game!

MarshamSane
08-17-2009, 02:56 PM
I'd love to play as well. and thankfully this site is DOD friendly, so I can even play when my carrier is underway!

bushido11
01-29-2010, 07:17 PM
It's good to see that there are some M&M players on the forums. I personally like to use it for genres other than superheroes; I've ran a couple of superhero sessions, but unfortunately, the game fell apart because people weren't showing up anymore. Around where I live, it's either D&D or nothing (for the most part; I did run into someone running GURPS 4e).

As far as any d20 derivative goes, M&M is top-notch. I'm not a fan of class/level based systems, since they pigeonhole folks into playing a certain way or make recreating the kind of character you want to play a convulted process. I remember back in 2000 as I was waiting for both M&M 1e and d20 Modern to come out. M&M 1e came out first and I thought it was a godsend amongst d20 games; when I got d20 Modern, I was rather unimpressed when comparing it to M&M. 2e did a tremendous job polishing up on itself, and I honestly don't foresee a real need for a 3rd edition anytime soon (and I don't mean in the same way Hero went from 5e to 6e; that game honestly didn't really warrant a brand new edition, even though Steve Long was itching for one due to the release of Champions Online).

For the hit point dilemma, I've run into it myself from others. Here's a little system I came up with that serves as an alternative "hit point" system.

The Damage Threshold System (or DTS): an alternate injury tracking system for Mutants & Masterminds.

With the DTS, characters have a Damage Threshold (DT) and two sets of Condition Tracks (nonlethal and lethal). DT indicates how many points of damage one can take before his condition worsens. By default, characters start with a DT of 10, and you can increase your DT by 2 for 1pp.

As for the Condition Tracks (nonlethal and lethal), each Condition Track has three levels. For nonlethal, these are:
Bruised (from 1 damage to DT in damage)
Battered (from DT+1 damage to 2x DT; dazed for one round)
Staggered (from 2x DT - 1 to 3x DT; staggered).

For lethal, these are:
Injured (from 1 damage to DT in damage)
Wounded (from DT+1 damage to 2x DT; stunned for one round)
Disabled (from 2x DT - 1 to 3x DT; disabled* and staggered).
*In DTS, the disabled condition works differently. Rather than not being able to take strenuous action at the risk of worsening your condition to dying, you suffer a -5 penalty to any rolls that require you to perform a strenuous action. This change was made so that you can still do stuff without having to worry about going from "disabled" to "dying" from performing strenuous actions.

Damage Overflow
Should nonlethal damage exceed the Staggered stage, the target is rendered unconscious and any further damage is converted to lethal. Should lethal damage exceed the Disabled stage, the target is rendered unconscious and is dying (follow the regular rules for stabilization).

Dealing Damage
When you successfully hit someone in combat, roll 1d10 + the attack's damage bonus. Any bonuses to Toughness saves counts as damage reduction. As an option for grittier games, Constitution bonuses only reduce nonlethal damage. Critical hits add +5 to damage.

Changes to the Healing Power
The Healing power changes as follows: whenever you use the Healing power, roll 1d10 + Healing rank to reduce the amount of injury taken. You can only make one Healing roll per injury, unless you have the Total Healing extra (so keep track of injuries separately). If you don't recover all of the damage dealt by a particular injury, any leftover damage must heal normally.

Conclusion
And that's about all there is to it for the DTS. I used a d10 for damage to coincide with the 2d10 roll I was using as opposed to the standard d20 roll. I prefer the predictability of a bell curve from rolling 2d10 as opposed to the randomness of flat distribution from rolling 1d20, and no change to DCs was necessary. As for critical hits, I ruled that rolling a 20 on 2d10 (1% chance) automatically produces a critical hit (no threat roll required), thus speeding up the process of critting. I made the DTS because I find it easier to track down damage the old-fashion way as opposed to figuring out degrees of failure in my head (and modifying the Toughness save due to injuries).

In practice, the DTS ran very smooth for me and my players. Tracking injury was a breeze and fights lasted about the same amount of time, from either drawn out fights to quick, three-round fights, due to the flat (and wide) distribution of a 1d10 roll and taking Toughness as damage reduction into account.

In practice, the DTS ran very smooth for me and my players. Tracking injury was a breeze and fights lasted about the same amount of time, from either drawn out fights to quick, three-round fights, due to the flat (and wide) distribution of a 1d10 roll and taking Toughness as damage reduction into account.

In the future, I'd like to run some sort of exotic fantasy campaign using M&M.

Marley117
01-30-2010, 11:45 AM
Sooo is anyone up for running an M&M campaign on here?

bushido11
01-31-2010, 02:42 PM
Sooo is anyone up for running an M&M campaign on here?

What kind of M&M campaign are you looking for?

Marley117
02-01-2010, 12:32 PM
I am not so huge into Fantasy, and i'm already in a couple of campaigns as it is. I know you spoke of running one like that though. It would kinda be interesting using the ruleset, but I really want to play in a superhero game heh.

bushido11
02-02-2010, 01:42 AM
Marley117: if you're already busy with your current campaigns, then I wouldn't want to trouble you further by adding more on your plate. However, if you can manage to squeeze in another campaign in, I may consider setting up a superhero campaign. PM me on any available times so that we can talk it over.

This invitation is open to any others as well. I'm willing to take up to four players.

Webhead
02-03-2010, 01:57 AM
If only I had the free time, I'd be very interested in an M&M game. Alas, I'm booked pretty solid lately. But best of luck to those of you trying to get one together.

Up, up and away! :D

Lass
02-24-2010, 11:20 AM
I love MnM!!! I recently ran a game over maptools with Skype, that utilized forum RP, that went so well one of the players took it over GMing and another started an extra day of it.

I think one of the hardest things about the system for most old school gamers is the lack of a true hit point system but once they get the hang of it its really quite easy.

Marley117
02-25-2010, 12:56 PM
I like that fact too. Hated the hit point system for basically any system, unless that system is really deadly. M&M does a good job about mimicking the superhero feel

DonovanZanz
11-19-2010, 02:41 PM
http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php/17892-Interest-in-an-M-amp-M-game

Cryotech
11-24-2010, 06:13 AM
I do, but it's been a while. Though I also play DC Heroes, Marvel, DC Universe and Blood of Heroes (which is DC Heroes essentially).

I'd love to get in on some super hero action.

MisterBook
12-12-2010, 11:48 PM
Personally I love Mutants & Masterminds. I just can't find anyone that will GM it. Would you guys be using voice chat?

Smileybob
12-15-2010, 05:13 AM
Hey guys! New member of the forums here. I will be starting a Skype based M&M 3e game soon. It's important to note, however, that players are not Super-Heroes in our world. If you like the M&M rules and are open to something a little different feel free to check out my post, New Frontier in the Campaign Invitation forums.

MisterBook
12-19-2010, 09:07 AM
Double post.