Dungeons & Dragons Movie Discussion

[Tony Misfeldt]

I started this discussion on a couple of other gaming websites and the opinions and such were quite interesting. I figured, as this is an international site, the opinions and such might be a little more diverse. Again, I think it's a fun and interesting discission. So what are your thoughts on the D&D movies? What changes would you have made if it were up to you to write them? What D&D novels would you like to see turned into movies? The first two D&D movies were meant to be the first two thirds of a trilogy. How do you think the third movie should be written? All opinions and points of view are valid, so don't be shy and let it all hang out.

DUNGEONS & DRAGONS: THE MOVIE

Personally, like many people I know, I think the first D&D movie sucked! There was just so much that was wrong with that movie it's hard to know where to begin. However, I own a copy of it on DVD (it's D&D and it was on sale) so I've seen it with both the feature length comentaries as well as all the deleted and extended or incompleted scenes. And I'd have to say that if they were ever to re-edit the film, completing and adding in several of the lost scenes, and rerelease it on DVD as an "Extended Edition Director's Cut", it would be almost watchable. These are the changes that have to be made...

1) One of my biggest problems with this movie was that they never gave the dwarf a name. The entire movie he was called either "him" or "the dwarf". Turns out that he actually does have a name, they just left it on the proverbial "cutting room floor" due to "time constraints". The characters name was Elwood Gutworthy. There was a scene in the sewers just after the four main characters escaped Damodar and The Crimson Brigade where he introduces himself. As this would be an extended cut, time constraints wouldn't be an issue and the scene should deffinately be edited back in.

2) There was supposed to be a running gag in the fight scenes in the bar and the Thieves Guild where Elwood's helmet would get knocked off and he would go berserk and kick some serious butt. These scenes were also cut out due to time constraints, but I think putting them back in would make those fight scenes more entertaining. Again, this is an extended director's cut, so time constraints are meaningless.

3) There was an unfinished scene of Marena and Riddley inside the magic scroll. This scene was cut due to budget, and the director thought that the important information gets relayed to Snailz later in the film and therefore didn't need to be repeated by the wraith. But there was a part of the scene where Marena and Riddley were arguing where Riddley tells her of his fathers unfair treatment at the hands of the Mages Council, thus revealing the root of his hatred of the mages and also shattering the foundations of Marena's entire belief system. All in all, a very emotional scene which deserved to be in the finished film.

4) There was a scene just after Snailz was killed, where Norda is consoling Marena. She says something along the lines of "You grieve for Riddley. I grieve too, for his kind hearted friend. But all is not lost. If we can make it to The Elven Forrest in time, he may yet be saved." The scene was cut due to time constraints, but deserves to be put into the extended cut.

5) There was an unfinished scene during the battle between the gold dragons and Profion and his supporters from the Mages Council that was cut due to budget. E. Gary Gygax was playing one of the mages. I would finish the scene and edit it back in for that reason alone.

6) The ending with Riddley and the others at Snailz's grave was actually shot a year after the movie was finished. Originally the ending had Riddley in the graveyard alone, and after a tearful goodbye walking off to his knighting cerimony. The producers felt it was too serious an ending and ordered a new "happier" ending be shot. I saw the original ending and I have to say I much prefer the original to the rewrite.

DUNGEONS & DRAGONS II: WRATH OF THE DRAGON GOD

I put off watching this movie for a very long time. When I finally broke down and bought a copy (it was part of the same sale as the first one) I was very surprised. I liked it! I really, really liked it! It wasn't perfect by any means. There was certainly room for improvement. But the writing was infinately superior to the first movie, and the actors took their rolls very seriously (reading Players Handbooks, Monsters Manuals, and DMGs between shoots, etc). There were a few minor changes I would have made to the characters, casting, wardrobe, script, etc. But on the whole I thought they did an excellent job! Here are the changes I would have made...

BEREK THE FIGHTER: First thing about Berek is I would have made him a paladin rather than just a plain fighter. There are three reasons for this. One, it opens up the party to more racial diversity (there are too many damn humans in this movie). Two, it opens up the party to more class diversity (someone else could be the plain fighter). And three, it opens up the party to more magic items (I would have given Berek The Paladin a Holy Avenger and given the Vorpal Sword to Lux). I also would have given Berek the same surname as Riddley's in the first movie (I think it was Freemantle), thus indicating to the observant viewer that he is a desendant of Riddley's (and presumably also Marena's). As for casting, while the actor who played Berek did an admirable job, I would have cast Cary Elwes (Saw, The Princess Bride, Robin Hood: Men In Tights). He's a fine actor and a skilled swordsman.

LUX THE BARBARIAN: Of all the characters, Lux is the one I have the most problems with. First there's her wardrobe, it's too civilized. I didn't even realize she was supposed to be a barbarian until Berek's wife said the line "The barbarian is certainly beautiful." When dressing a barbarian for a fantasy adventure film like D&D, less is more (especially when the barbarian in question is female). I would have put her in a fur bikini, mukluks (Boots Of The North), a sword belt, an ornate set of (enchanted) bracers (Bracers Of Defence), and a fur cloak (possibly of Winter Wolf hide or a Cloak Of Protection). As for the actress who portrayed Lux, she didn't seem to have the look of a fantasy barbarian. She's beautiful, and may be athletic in a cheerleader sort of way. But even in proper attire she wouldn't be very intimidating or barbaric. I would have cast former WWE Diva and two time Playboy covergirl Joanie Laurer (aka "The Ninth Wonder Of The World" Chyna) in the role. Or if you want someone more conventionally beautiful, Victoria Pratt, who played an amazon on a couple of episodes of Xena: Warrior Princess and played Sarge in the (blessedly) short lived TV series Cleopatra 2525.

ORMALINE THE ELVEN MAGE: The actress who played Ormaline did a fantastic job and the character was very well written. The only change I would make to this character is to recast her with an A List actress. I would choose either Kristen Kruek (Smallville) or Lexa Doig (Andromeda). They both have a very exotic beauty which makes them perfect to playing elves. Liv Tyler (The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy) would also be a good choice.

DORIAN THE CLERIC: Dorian was very well written, and the actor who portrayed him did a fine job. He was played with strength, intelligence, wisdom, and compassion, exactly as a cleric of a goodly god should be. But if I were to recast the role with a known actor, I would have to go with Liam Neeson. He exhibited all those same qualities when he played Qui-Gon Jin in Star Wars Episode I: The Franchise Menace, as well as when he played Aslan in The Chronicles Of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe.

NIM THE ROGUE: Nim is another character that would require an entire rewrite. Not because he was poorly written or cast. Again, I really liked the writing and think all the actors did a fantastic job. But there were too damn many humans in this movie! Therefore I would have written Nim as a halfling (a little cliche, I know, but apropriate). The actor who played Nim might be short, but he's not small enough to play a halfling. Thus I would have cast Warwick Davis in the role (Willow, Star Wars Episode I & VI, Harry Potter I - IV, Leprichaun I - V). He's well known, he loves the genre, he's a fine actor, and unlike most people born with dwarfism he has long fingers. If he's unavailable, I'd have cast Vern "Mini-Me" Troyer (the Austin Powers movies and TV's Jack Of All Trades). He's probably more well known among the younger movie goers, but I haven't seen him in anything other than comedies so I don't know how seriously he'd take the role. My other two picks for the role of Nim would have required an even larger rewrite, turning he into a she (and maybe giving her a more feminine sounding name, like Nymara or something). My first female pick for the role of the halfling rogue is Debbie Lee Carrington, who many of you might remember as the blonde midget hooker in the Schwarzenegger flick Total Recall. My second choice is former adult film star, Bridget "The Midget" Powerz. Last I heard she gave up doing porn to front a punk rock band, but she might have said yes to a ligitimate acting gig. After casting a little person in the role of the halfling rogue, all they'd have to do is get the WETA Workshop to fit them with some hobbit feet.

ELWOOD GUTWORTHY THE DWARVEN FIGHTER: See, I told you making Berek a paladin would open up the party to more classes and races. I would have written Elwood back into the story both to add more races to the party other than human, as well as for tactical purposes. As he was part of the original party that defeated him 100 years earlier, he has insight into Damodar's tactics and abilities. Besides, he's one of the only members of the original party who don't consider a single century that long of an amount of time, since dwarves live for about 400 years. As for casting, I would have to go with Lee Arenberg, who played Elwood in the original. Not only is he familiar with the character, but it helps with film continuity. If Lee is unable to take the role, then I'd go with the Bret Beatty who was the scale double for John Rhyse Davies during the Lord Of The Rings Trilogy. He's 4'9", has a blackbelt in karate, is a classically trained actor, and a licenced stuntman. Or if they can't get him, maybe Hornswoggle from WWE Monday Night RAW. He's also the right size and a capable athlete.

NORDA THE ELVEN RANGER: Another example of how making Berek a paladin rather than a fighter opens up the party to more classes and races. Norda would be enlisted for the same reasons as Elwood, her personal knowledge of Damodar and his tactics. Plus, as an elf she also is the only member of the original party who lives for several centuries. The role of Norda should have been given to Kristen Wilson, who played Norda in the first movie, for continuity sake. If she were unable to take the role, then I'd suggest iether Lexa Doig, Kristen Kruek, or Liv Tyler (whichever one didn't take the role of Ormaline).

Those are all the changes I would have made to the casting of the sequel. Here are the changes I would have made to the script itself...

LUX'S BERSERKER RAGE: I've never made any attempt to hide my dislike of the new 3rd Edition rule that all anyone needs to go berserk is a set of wolfskin underwear and a horned helmet, and I stand by my opinion on that. That's not what this is about though. Wrath Of The Dragon God was written using the 3rd Edition core rule books as its template, I understand and accept that. However, regardless of whether you're using 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Edition as your reference material, there is a world of difference between using a berserker's rage in game and translating that onto the screen. In the game you simply tell your DM that you're going berserk and then make the necessary adjustments on your character sheet. On film, it has to be more dramatic. I didn't even know Lux was supposed to be in the midst of a berserker rage until Ormaline had to knock her on her ass with a lightning bolt and shout "Barbarian! Get a hold of yourself!" Here are the changes I would have made to that scene...

1) When the brigands are running down the hill and Lux is waiting to meet them, she should have been taking deep breaths, snarling, growling, foaming at the mouth (an effect easily achieved by putting a couple of Alka Seltzer tablets in your mouth and letting the frothing saliva drip down you face).

2) She should have been performing feats of superhuman strength during the battle. Launching men 6 feet in the air with a kick to the googlies (that's Joss Whedon speak for a kick to the groin), picking a man up by the throat one handed and throwing him 10 feet into a group of his comrades, etc.

3) Some of the bandits attacks should have gotten through her defences only to bounce off the protective shield provided by her Bracers Of Defence.

4) Some of the bandits attacks should have gotten through her defences causing what should be a crippling wound, which she totally ignores. A bandit shatters her shoulder with a solid hit with a morning star. Another bandit drives his spear into her hip. Another bandit stabs her in the gut with a short sword. She ignores them all and just cuts down the offending brigands.

5) Once safely inside Malek's Vault, Lux collapses due to her exhaustion and the numerous wounds she had suffered. Berek has to use all of his paladin healing powers to heal her wounds so she can continue.

THE FINDING OF THE VORPAL SWORD: This scene was never shot due to budgetting problems. Originally, after the party had passed the room with the Dark Mantels they entered a long hallway (if you look closely you'll see the sword he fights off the Dark Mantels with and the one he smashes through the wall with are completely different). The floor at the far end of the hallway starts to rise like a drawbridge while the rest of the floor starts to retract to dump the occupants into a spiked pit. Each member of the party takes a running leap across the widening pit. Berek went last, almost falling into the pit. As he was dangling by the drawbridge he saw a skeleton with a Vorpal Sword lying in the pit, and at the last possible second he reached into the pit and retrieved the sword. That's how it was written. Instead of cutting the scene completely, I would have rewritten it in a more cost effective way. Here's how I would have written it...

1) As I said above, I would have given the Vorpal Sword to Lux. Rather than have her find it in The Vault, I would have given it to the Bandit Leader. When he sees how powerful Lux is, he drinks a Potion Of Super Heroism, a Potion Of Strength, and a Potion Of Speed (essentially giving him the benefits of a berserker's rage). He then draws his Vorpal Sword and charges down the hill to attack. He and Lux have a brief but fast and furious duel (somewhat akin to Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker's duel in Revenge Of The S#!t, but not as long). The bandit leader cuts right through Lux's sword while parrying one of her attacks. He has her dead to rights, but before he can strike the final blow Ormaline nails him with a lightning bolt. The potions he imbibed earlier allow him to shrug off the worst of the effects, leaving him stunned (it's more like being shot with a tazer than being struck by lightning). Lux wrenches the Vorpal Sword from his grasp and cuts him in two, literally. Lux then cuts down more brigands until Ormaline knocks her on her ass and shouts "Barbarian, get ahold of yourself!"

2) Before the room with the Dark Mantels, I would have put a guard room which is littered with the skeletal remains of a score of goblins and one human in plate armour with a goblin sword in his chest. While Nim and Elwood search the bodies for anything valuable, Berek, Norda, and the others deduce what happened here. Apparently, a paladin had made it to the guard room and engaged the goblin guards in battle. He slew most of them, but the last one got in a lucky shot. With his last breath the paladin slew the last goblin. Unfortunately he didn't have strength enought to heal his wound before he died. This was shortly before Malek teleported himself into the wall and died, so no other goblin guards were able to replace the ones who died or loot the bodies. Berek finds that the paladin's sword was a Holy Avenger and trades with him, saying a prayer to the fallen hero's spirit to let him know that the sword is being used by a fellow paladin in the name of good.

THE BANDIT ATTACK: I said it before and I'll say it again, there were way too many damn humans in this movie. I would have made the bandits orcs, or drow, or hobgoblins, or grimlocks. Anything other than humans. I understand that this movie had a much smaller budget than the first one did, and as such probably couldn't afford the prothstetic latex makeup for that many stuntmen and extras. Making them drow would probably have been cheapest, as they'd just need elf ears, white wigs, and a whole lot of black makeup. Then they could just import a bunch of Chinese stuntmen from the Hong Kong film industry (they're smaller and of slighter builds than most American stuntmen).

THE ENERGY SHIELD: I would have killed off Nim the halfling rogue here. Not that I disliked the character or anything, I just think it would have been more dramatic. Everyone gets across the energy shield safely, but Nim (being a 3' tall halfling) can't get across in time and gets fried. Makes the whole thing a little more emotional, a little sadder, a little darker. Like in an actual D&D game, sometimes your character dies.

Well, those are all the changes I would make to the first two films. I'll write up my ideas for the third movie in the D&D Trilogy at a later date. Feel free to critique my ideas, the movies, post your own ides, whatever. The sky's the limit! Have fun with it. Who knows, maybe some Hollywood bigwig likes to log on to this site and we might inspire him to make a better third installation. Hey, it could happen!

[russdm]

I am afraid that I actually liked the first one. I thought it was pretty good. I also happen to love the prequels while almost every SW fan I've chatted with hate them. You have to remember that most people view D&D as some weird psycho thingie more than just a hobby so they have to show people its not as bad as they think. The second is better than the first of course but there is not as much humor, a little tad much seriousness. Jeremy Irons was actually very good as Profion, check him out in other roles in other films, he's good. The script need serious work in my opinion. Both Narda and Elwood wait outside while Rid and Snailz go inside the castle. Narda almost always makes some comment about how they (elwood and her; everybody but Ridley) are supposed to do something or enter. Terrible! Cut the lines and scenes! We don't need to see that! There were better scenes they could have kept.

[Mulsiphix]

There is little to discuss as far as I'm concerned. Both movies are in my personal collection and I've watched each several times. I know they got ho-hum reviews but I thoroghly enjoyed them. The dragon from the second one is one of the best CGI dragons I've ever seen. The only other truly breathtaking dragons were from Reign Of Fire.

[MortonStromgal]

I really didn't like the first one and I only slightly disliked the second one.

[Drohem]

I didn't like the first one because of the representation of dwarves. Dwarves are my favorite fantasy race, and they are almost universally portrayed in a comedic manner. Gimli in LotR was done well, but sometimes it came too close to comedic relief for my tastes.

The second was better in my view for several reasons:

1. Jeremy Irons as the BBEG.
2. The Greyhawk flavor really was portrayed well.
3. Magic and spells were portrayed well; as well as nicely done in CGI.
4. The CGI dragon kicked ass!

[upidstay]

The second one was ok. The FIRST one???

It sucked. It sucked on a totally new level. I was completely unaware that any film could suck like that. The fine folks at Websters had to completely redefine the words suck, garbage, and awful. On a scale of 1 to 10, with a 10 meaning "it sucked" and a 1 meaning "Let's find the director and writer and beat them to death with that cheesy prop they used for a scepter", I'd have to give it a 0.

Maybe if the lovely Miss Birch took off her top it would have at least had that...

Did that get my point across? I know that I sometimes sugar coat my words and fail to say what I truly mean.

[Mulsiphix]

Did that get my point across? I know that I sometimes sugar coat my words and fail to say what I truly mean.Actually I'm quite unclear on what your saying here. Will you quit beating around the bush and let us know what you think of the movie already? Jeesh :rolleyes:

[upidstay]

:d:d:d:d:d

[cplmac]

I have the first on DVD, and thought that is was OK. Yes, it would be nice if they would include all the deleted scenes, but we have no say in that matter, when they are making the movie. Have not seen the second one so I can't give a reply on it.

What I find funny is that anyone can critisize someone else's work. Especially when they don't do that particular type of work themselves. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their oppinion as to whether or not they like something. It's just that for someone to say that a particular author don't know how to write, when they are not an author themself, I usually don't finish reading what they a saying.

[Tony Misfeldt]

I am afraid that I actually liked the first one. I thought it was pretty good. I also happen to love the prequels while almost every SW fan I've chatted with hate them. You have to remember that most people view D&D as some weird psycho thingie more than just a hobby so they have to show people its not as bad as they think. The second is better than the first of course but there is not as much humor, a little tad much seriousness. Jeremy Irons was actually very good as Profion, check him out in other roles in other films, he's good. The script need serious work in my opinion. Both Narda and Elwood wait outside while Rid and Snailz go inside the castle. Narda almost always makes some comment about how they (elwood and her; everybody but Ridley) are supposed to do something or enter. Terrible! Cut the lines and scenes! We don't need to see that! There were better scenes they could have kept.

I've met a few people who liked the first D&D. I've even met a few people who actually liked the Star Wars prequels. Of course, I've also met people who think X-Pac and 1-2-3 Kid are brothers (they're the same guy), or who think Chyna is a transvestite (she's not), or who think nothing in wrestling is staged (it is).They walk among us.

The fact that there's not as much humour in the second D&D movie is a good thing. One of my problems with the first one was that there was too much humour in it. It was like Conan The Barbarian and Conan The Destroyer, but with the roles reversed (Conan The Barbarian was the better film because it was darker and more serious, then they screwed up the second one by making Conan The Destroyer a lighter, PG Rated, action comedy).

I agree that Jeremy Irons is an excellent actor. That's why it pains me to see him take a role so lightly. None of the actors in the first movie showed the kind of professionalism and respect of the base materials that those in the second movie showed. That's what sets the two of then apart. I also agree that Narda and Elwood needed more to do than stand around and watch Riddley and Snailz do everything. But the movie's already out there, so whatcha gonna do?

The second one was ok. The FIRST one???

It sucked. It sucked on a totally new level. I was completely unaware that any film could suck like that. The fine folks at Websters had to completely redefine the words suck, garbage, and awful. On a scale of 1 to 10, with a 10 meaning "it sucked" and a 1 meaning "Let's find the director and writer and beat them to death with that cheesy prop they used for a scepter", I'd have to give it a 0.

Maybe if the lovely Miss Birch took off her top it would have at least had that...

Did that get my point across? I know that I sometimes sugar coat my words and fail to say what I truly mean.

You're being way too kind. A 0? I'd give it a -10! Though I'd have to agree with you about Thora Birch. She was also the only actor in the cast who didn't play her character for laughs.

The sequel would have been so much better than it was if they had the same size budget that the first one had. It was still a better movie on the strength of the acting and writing alone.

I didn't like the first one because of the representation of dwarves. Dwarves are my favorite fantasy race, and they are almost universally portrayed in a comedic manner. Gimli in LotR was done well, but sometimes it came too close to comedic relief for my tastes.

The second was better in my view for several reasons:

1. Jeremy Irons as the BBEG.
2. The Greyhawk flavor really was portrayed well.
3. Magic and spells were portrayed well; as well as nicely done in CGI.
4. The CGI dragon kicked ass!

1) I agree with you about the way they portrayed dwarves in the first movie. Gimli in LOTR was played pretty much as written in the novel, so I have fewer complaints about that. But I would have to say that making Elwood more like Gimli would have been a vast improvement.
2) I don't know what you mean by "BBEG" so I can't agree or disagree with you on the Jeremy Irons issue.
3) I don't play in Greyhawk, so I'll have to take your word for it.
4) I totally agree on the point of the magic and spells! They were very well done, not just with the CGI but also with the writing and acting!
5) Here I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. The CGI dragons were far better written (in the first movie they were little more than scaly, fire breathing, winged horses), as in this one they can actually talk. Well, the white dragon didn't say anything, but they usually aren't in a very talkative mood anyway. But visually, the dragons in the first movie were far more realistic. But as far as I'm concerned, the dragons in Dragonheart are the ultimate. That is how dragons are supposed to look (and gold dragons are supposed to act).

I have the first on DVD, and thought that is was OK. Yes, it would be nice if they would include all the deleted scenes, but we have no say in that matter, when they are making the movie.

I understand needing to delete certain scenes due to time constraints. Peter Jackson had to cut each installment of the LOTR Trilogy by nearly an hour because of them. However, He rereleased them on DVD in an extended edition. I'm just suggesting that the producers of the first D&D movie go back and do the same thing with their film. It doesn't have to be rereleased in theatres like the original Star Wars trilogy was (although that would be nice), but rereleasing it on DVD would be a shrewd business move.

[Mulsiphix]

Tony in the future could you try to combine some of your posts? Double posting is quite common but five in a row is a bit excessive. This is a personal opinion of me as a forum user, not a request of a moderator. As far as I know there is no rule against it. Just a personal peeve :P

I understand needing to delete certain scenes due to time constraints. Peter Jackson had to cut each installment of the LOTR Trilogy by nearly an hour because of them. However, He rereleased them on DVD in an extended edition. I'm just suggesting that the producers of the first D&D movie go back and do the same thing with their film. It doesn't have to be rereleased in theatres like the original Star Wars trilogy was (although that would be nice), but rereleasing it on DVD would be a shrewd business move.The original movie wasn't well accepted. It would be a complete loss of money for them. Seriously bleak.

[Drohem]

2) I don't know what you mean by "BBEG" so I can't agree or disagree with you on the Jeremy Irons issue.

Big Bad Evil Guy

[upidstay]

"What I find funny is that anyone can critisize someone else's work. Especially when they don't do that particular type of work themselves. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their oppinion as to whether or not they like something. It's just that for someone to say that a particular author don't know how to write, when they are not an author themself, I usually don't finish reading what they a saying"



Ummm, actually I can call myself an "author". Been published, all that.

I don't mind a little cheese in my movies. In fact i enjoy a bad sci-fi or fantasy flick. It just ticks me off when they drop $50 million on a movie and waste it all on one cool scene with flying dragons. The scene in the crypt, with the skeleton talking, was sooooooo bad, and the sceptre looked like some newbie LARPer made it in their garage.

[Tony Misfeldt]

Tony in the future could you try to combine some of your posts? Double posting is quite common but five in a row is a bit excessive. This is a personal opinion of me as a forum user, not a request of a moderator. As far as I know there is no rule against it. Just a personal peeve :P


As I don't have a computer of my own, my time is limited by how long the VPL allows me to use their computers. Thus I use what for me is the quickest and easiest way to respond to posts. Plus I haven't figured out how to respond to multiple posts by multiple members in one responce yet. But I'll take your advice under consideration.


The original movie wasn't well accepted. It would be a complete loss of money for them. Seriously bleak.

Highlander 2: The Quickening wasn't well accepted by the public iether, but they still rereleased it on DVD as Highlander 2: The Renegade Version, which was marginally better (but still crap). I think that they probably made enough money from the entire D&D Movie franchise that they could afford to rerelease an extended director's cut of the first one. And I believe that there are enough of us D&D geeks out there who would go out out and buy it that it would in fact turn a fair profit.


What I find funny is that anyone can critisize someone else's work. Especially when they don't do that particular type of work themselves. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their oppinion as to whether or not they like something. It's just that for someone to say that a particular author don't know how to write, when they are not an author themself, I usually don't finish reading what they a saying.

I agree with you to a certain extent. I mean, who the hell are Ebert & Roper to tell me whether or not a movie is any good? What film school did they graduate from? How many Oscars or Golden Globes have they won for film making? But, while not all of us are Hollywood script writers doesn't necessarily mean we don't know good writing when we see it. We've all played D&D. We've all written back stories for our characters. We've all DMed games and written adventures for other players. We all know what works well in a D&D game and what doesn't. Writing a movie script isn't so different than writing an adventure, and directing a film isn't so different than DMing a game. I could eat a Monsters Manual and a DMG and crap out a better story than what was used as the script for the first movie. I'm not just writing that as a D&D player and DM, I'm writing that as a published author, a struggling script writer, a pro wrestler, and any other apliccable description you can name.

By the way, I've finished writing my review of the movies in my original post. You guys might want to go back and take another look to see what changes I've made. Then there'll be something new to talk about.

[Anaesthesia]

I don't have any thing to add about the 2 movies discussed here (it would be redundant to what others have said)

BUT I wanted an opinion on another D&D movie: Dragonlance The Movie (aka Dragons of Autumn Twilight). Apparently the DVD was released on January 15 08. here's the official site:http://www.dragonlance-movie.com

Anyone see it yet?

[Mulsiphix]

BUT I wanted an opinion on another D&D movie: Dragonlance The Movie (aka Dragons of Autumn Twilight). Apparently the DVD was released on January 15 08. here's the official site:http://www.dragonlance-movie.com

Anyone see it yet?I tried to watch it but couldn't bring myself to finish. I wrote a review of it in another thread (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19280&postcount=14).

[tesral]

Well, I've never seen any of them. With the comments I wonder if I want to bother.

Yea, a little cheeze is fine, if I enter the film knowing it's a cheezey movie. Some films stick their tongue firmly in cheek from the get-go and never come up. I can think of any number including everything Mel Brooks has made. When there is an understanding that it's a cheeze shop film, that is fine.

Worse film EVAR! And it was a fantasy film at that. Ator Hunter of the Future. It stank so bad I can still smell it when the wind is right. I don't know that they did with the budget, but they didn't spend it on writing, costume, FX, acting, or cinematography. I frankly have seen high school film class efforts that are better. I wake up sweating in the night screaming "Give me back my two hours!!!"

[Drohem]

Highlander 2: The Quickening wasn't well accepted by the public iether, but they still rereleased it on DVD as Highlander 2: The Renegade Version, which was marginally better (but still crap). I think that they probably made enough money from the entire D&D Movie franchise that they could afford to rerelease an extended director's cut of the first one. And I believe that there are enough of us D&D geeks out there who would go out out and buy it that it would in fact turn a fair profit.

Eh? What? This movie never existed and we will never speak of again, right?

[MortonStromgal]

There should have been only one...

[cplmac]

I tried to watch it but couldn't bring myself to finish. I wrote a review of it in another thread (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19280&postcount=14).


So who do we need to know or contact about getting a good version of this made using real actors & actresses as well as cutting edge special effects. I'll heed your advice and save my money until it gets made right.

[Drohem]

So who do we need to know or contact about getting a good version of this made using real actors & actresses as well as cutting edge special effects. I'll heed your advice and save my money until it gets made right.


I would trust Peter Jackson to do it right if he had the right resources. Having LotR on his resume looks good ;)

[Farcaster]

Plus I haven't figured out how to respond to multiple posts by multiple members in one responce yet. But I'll take your advice under consideration.

Tony, you can select the multi-quote button http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/Greys/buttons/multiquote_off.gif, which is just to the right of "quote". That allows you to select multiple posts and then when you finally do hit reply, all the posts are quoted at once.

[tesral]

Tony, you can select the multi-quote button http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/Greys/buttons/multiquote_off.gif, which is just to the right of "quote". That allows you to select multiple posts and then when you finally do hit reply, all the posts are quoted at once.

That is what that is for. Useful, I'll promptly forget it now. :confused:

[MortonStromgal]

I would trust Peter Jackson to do it right if he had the right resources. Having LotR on his resume looks good ;)

After seeing the documentaries I disagree (heh look I disagreed with Drohem!) Fans didn't let him screw it up, otherwise we would have ended up with Liv Warrior Princess. You are talking about the guy known for Bad Taste and other campy horror films.

[Drohem]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of his other movies, espcially the ones before LotR. However, LotR was done right. If he was wise enough to listen to the fan base for that franchise, then he would probably follow that model with a Dungeons & Dragons movie- I would hope! You never know though; although I hope his LotR success 'went to his head,' so to speak. I guess how the The Hobbit movies turn out will be a good barometer.

[Mulsiphix]

Before LOTR? The Frighteners was awesome! Unfortunately I don't think we're going to see Dragonlance done right until more people get interested in D&D. A great deal of directors make movies that they themselves want to see. It isn't about the money. Most are happy just to break even. At least this is the case for Lucas and Spielberg. Either some Dragonlance fan is going to have to make this baby, maybe they that is the case with the one that was just released :eek:, or D&D is going to have to reach a much bigger audience. So many awesome fantasy movies could be created by so many talented people :(.

[Malruhn]

Ach, you must all biteth me.

I liked 'em both. Cheesy and poorly acted? You betcha - just like many adventures I've been on.

I liked 'em. Make a third!!!

Edited to add: Oh, and Ator was not only a waste of celluloid, it was a waste of cellulose, cellulite and cell-u-phones as well.

[Maelstrom]

It's all about the book. If there were a Dungeons and Dragons book to make it to the top-selling list we might have a chance. Problem is, slapping a Dungeons and Dragons icon on it virtually guaruntees it will be read by a very select group, not the appeal to get a movie made.

Now Lion, Witch, and Wardrobe was pretty cool as far as showing what would be possible. Centaurs in battle are an Awesome sight to behold!

[tesral]

Edited to add: Oh, and Ator was not only a waste of celluloid, it was a waste of cellulose, cellulite and cell-u-phones as well.

I think the word you seek is "waste".

[Mulsiphix]

I think these movies should be cheesy. Not Monty Python cheesy but cheesiness in general should be present. When was the last time you played anything D&D and there wasn't somebody cheesing it up? Its an inevitable byproduct of amateur roleplaying ;)

[tesral]

The comedy should come from the circumstances, not the production itself. The minute you cause me to say "Oh come on" you have lost me on the film or story.

Here is the deal, you have to take making anything seriously. I don't care if it is red clown noses, you have to be serious about making a quality red clown nose. If you are making a D&D movie half measures do not work. "Oh we don't have to try, it's only a product placement fantasy film." Okay, that will be a bad movie, I don't care what they started with.

To get a quality product you have to respect the story, respect the process, respect the audience, and not take yourself seriously. This works no matter if you have a movie, a book, a stage play, or a gaming scenario. Take the work seriously, but never yourself.

[Mulsiphix]

With over 90 million spent on the first movie alone I doubt this was just a "just for the hell of it" attempt at creating another fantasy film.

[nijineko]

what impressed me about the first movie was actually the uphill battle he fought to make it happen in the first place. i understand that he didn't have a whole lot of support to make it happen for a long time.

it is too bad that there were so many critisizable things in the first, but considering the circumstances, they did a pretty impressive job with what they had to work with.

and the second was an improvement over the first. i liked that they were both 'actual' d&d movies with elements from the rpg. yeah, they had lots of flaws, but then so do most of the movies i've seen. ^^

[Mulsiphix]

yeah, they had lots of flaws, but then so do most of the movies i've seen. ^^Well said sir :D

[tesral]

With over 90 million spent on the first movie alone I doubt this was just a "just for the hell of it" attempt at creating another fantasy film.

Money spent is no indication of quality in any endeavor. Indeed if people speak in amazement at the amount of money spent it is usually an indication that they wonder what it was spent on.

[rabkala]

I thought the first movie was not great, but not all that bad. Maybe time has obscured much of it from my mind. I did think the script/dialog was horrible. I have seen much worse. Come on, it had Thora Birch in it, how could it be all bad. :confused:

I attempted to watch the second movie, but got irritated and turned it off. Just sad what I saw of it.

[Mulsiphix]

Money spent is no indication of quality in any endeavor. Indeed if people speak in amazement at the amount of money spent it is usually an indication that they wonder what it was spent on.Money spent may not be an indication of quality but it usually is a pretty good indication of commitment. While 90 million might not be a lot of money to some directors, most would consider it a very large sum of money. Something they could create something truly wonderful with. My point being, I think the amount of money spent on the first movie is enough to say that the those who funded it were pretty serious about making a real D&D movie.

[tesral]

I think the amount of money spent on the first movie is enough to say that the those who funded it were pretty serious about making a real D&D movie.

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

That might indeed have been their failing. They tried to make a D&D movie. First you tell a good story, the rest will take care of itself. I don't know of any film company that set out to produce a bomb. However there are a lot of bombs out there.

[rabkala]

Bombs! No need to make terrorist threats just because you didn't like the movie!

[Mulsiphix]

I think those with super low budgets know they're going to be producing a bomb. I've seen some pretty awesome stories in many B-Movies but the budget was just so low that the whole movie was hard to get into. Even great acting can be overshadowed by cheap or non-existent props :rolleyes:

[nijineko]

ah, come on. that one star trek show where they spent most of the episode wandering around a darkened stage set trying to find there way in "caves" was actually one of the better ones. it can be done, it's just difficult.

[tesral]

ah, come on. that one star trek show where they spent most of the episode wandering around a darkened stage set trying to find there way in "caves" was actually one of the better ones. it can be done, it's just difficult.

Old quote from The Business "If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage." "Gem" is the epsiode you are thinking of TOS third season. (Yes, total Trekkie here). It is possible to produce a good production with few props, and little in the way of set. "The Fantastics" is a perfect example for the live stage. It has virturally nothing in terms of setting or props. It is written that way. A good story teller can have you rivited to every word by word alone. Well done your mind will produce visuals that the movie guys would envy.

I have never dissed a good story for bad effects and props. I have dissed a film for good FXs and a lousy story.

[Mulsiphix]

Name one popular movie that had a low budget, bad or non-existent props, and a great story. I bet there isn't even one. Today's world has no room for such amateur creations. That is such efforts are not appreciated by the "satisfaction now" point of view so many people seem to collectively share :rolleyes:

[boulet]

You mean like El Mariachi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Mariachi) ? Ok I agree Desperado was the actual hit more than its predecessor. Still the serie of movies wouldn't be there without the initial $7000 episode !

There is room for low budget, story driven stuff. That's why the big actors of show business are keeping an eye on Sundance. There's even agents and companies specialized in promoting Sundance rising stars as next Hollywood innovators.

Personally it's only a small fraction of the big budget movies that retain my attention. I usually get more satisfaction from independant movie for many reasons, originality being one of them.

[tesral]

Name one popular movie that had a low budget, bad or non-existent props, and a great story. I bet there isn't even one. Today's world has no room for such amateur creations. That is such efforts are not appreciated by the "satisfaction now" point of view so many people seem to collectively share :rolleyes:

No, most films these days spend a great deal on apperences. Too little on script. I see a lot of five minute plots. That is five minutes after it's over you are going "Hey, waht abut this? that would invalidate the whole story".

Good story, not much prop? "Twelve Angry Men" the whole story is told in one room. The only props are a pair of switchblades. Special effects are limited to a little rain in the window.

[Mulsiphix]

You got me there. Twelve Angry Men was spectacular ;)

[russdm]

Either some Dragonlance fan is going to have to make this baby.
From what I have seen of Autumn Twilight, using CGI with 2-D animation is terrible. They could have, more like should half, done it all the same way: 2-D. Then you don't have these weird mixing things going on.

Though I've got no directing experience, I am pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to make a better version. Probably need to find somebody to do 2-D animation and who knows how to do voice stuff. Oh, don't forgot sound effects.

[Mulsiphix]

The voice acting, background music, and awkward animation really put me off. It could have done much better if they had spent some more time working on the quality of the film. Just seems like somebody threw it together.

[Tony Misfeldt]

It's all about the book. If there were a Dungeons and Dragons book to make it to the top-selling list we might have a chance. Problem is, slapping a Dungeons and Dragons icon on it virtually guaruntees it will be read by a very select group, not the appeal to get a movie made.

Now Lion, Witch, and Wardrobe was pretty cool as far as showing what would be possible. Centaurs in battle are an Awesome sight to behold!


Many of R.A Salvadore's dark elf novels were number one on The New York Times Best Seller List. Actually, I've always felt that the story of Drizzt Do'Urden would make for an excellent series of D&D movies. With a well known, skilled, and talented director (such as Peter Jackson) and a cast of well known and talented actors it would be a hit with or without the Dungeons & Dragons icon. Personally, I would start the series with Sojourn: Book Three of The Dark Elf Trilogy. While the other two are very important to Drizzt's backstory, they both take place almost entirely in the lightless world of the underdark. Infravision would be very difficult to put into film, and would be very confusing to the uninitiated. There are ways of doing it of course, but anyone in the audience who has niether played D&D nor read the novels wouldn't necessarily know what's going on. They could shoot the scenes using actual infrared technology (which is very expensive and not designed for Hollywood film making), colour the images in post production to make it look like it was shot using actual infrared technology, or shoot it in black & white and colour their eyes red (or in Drizzt's case, purple) to show that a scene is taking place in total darkness. Then whenever the drow come into the light (lighting a candle, going to the surface, etc) the screen goes white in a blinding flash of light and then everything is seen under normal conditions. But starting with the third book, with a scrolling recap of the events that led to Drizzt going to the surface (or perhaps even a montage), and then just continuing from there would be easier and just as effective.

[Tony Misfeldt]

Eh? What? This movie never existed and we will never speak of again, right?
Oh, if only...

Tony, you can select the multi-quote button http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/Greys/buttons/multiquote_off.gif, which is just to the right of "quote". That allows you to select multiple posts and then when you finally do hit reply, all the posts are quoted at once.

I thought that's what that was for, and I tried using it several times. Iether I was using it wrong or the VPL computers were screwing it up somehow.

The comedy should come from the circumstances, not the production itself. The minute you cause me to say "Oh come on" you have lost me on the film or story.

Here is the deal, you have to take making anything seriously. I don't care if it is red clown noses, you have to be serious about making a quality red clown nose. If you are making a D&D movie half measures do not work. "Oh we don't have to try, it's only a product placement fantasy film." Okay, that will be a bad movie, I don't care what they started with.

To get a quality product you have to respect the story, respect the process, respect the audience, and not take yourself seriously. This works no matter if you have a movie, a book, a stage play, or a gaming scenario. Take the work seriously, but never yourself.

My sentiments exactly! That's why the second movie worked so much better than the first. With the first movie, practically nobody working on the project took it seriously. In the second movie, everybody took the project seriously. Thus the second movie was superior to the first with only about half the budget.

If you've seen the Making Of Featurette for Conan The Barbarian, James Earl Jones was giving his phylosophy on how to play a convincing villain. He said the secret is to take the role seriously. Don't try to have fun with it. The moment you start having fun with the role it shows in your performance and you lose any believability. So James Earl Jones took the roles of Thulsa Doom and Darth Vader very seriously and now they are icons of Hollywoon villains. Jeremy Irons decided to have fun with the role of Profion, and the character is a joke.

Name one popular movie that had a low budget, bad or non-existent props, and a great story. I bet there isn't even one. Today's world has no room for such amateur creations. That is such efforts are not appreciated by the "satisfaction now" point of view so many people seem to collectively share :rolleyes:

Does the name Star Wars mean anything to you? The first movie (now called Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope) had a very small budget for a film of that magnitude (only about $10 million if memory serves), yet George Lucas managed to make one of the greatest sci-fi movies of all time. And he did it with little more than elbow grease, imagination, popcicle sticks, glue, and a whole lot of testicular fortitude. Unfortunately he's sold out and now resorts to sticking a handful of actors in front of a blue screen and adding everything else in with CGI. But back then he was a geniuos and an inovator of film making.

Point being, it has been done, it can be done, and with a little guts and determination it can be done again.

From what I have seen of Autumn Twilight, using CGI with 2-D animation is terrible. They could have, more like should half, done it all the same way: 2-D. Then you don't have these weird mixing things going on.

Though I've got no directing experience, I am pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to make a better version. Probably need to find somebody to do 2-D animation and who knows how to do voice stuff. Oh, don't forgot sound effects.

I don't know. I've only seen the trailer for it, but it doesn't look any worse than the Dungeons & Dragons Saturday morning cartoon from the 80's (I have that entire series on DVD). Of course I wasn't even aware of the movie. I have seen a computer animated feature length D&D movie with a "choose your own adventure" set up to it in the video store though. I haven't rented/bought it yet so I can't give any opinions as of yet. It features three of the characters from the 3rd Edtion Players Handbook (the rogue, the fighter, and the mage I think). I'll write more when I know more.

[russdm]

I have seen a computer animated feature length D&D movie with a "choose your own adventure" set up to it in the video store though. I haven't rented/bought it yet so I can't give any opinions as of yet. It fetures three of the characters from the 3rd Edtion Players Handbook (the rogue, the fighter, and the mage I think). I'll write more when I know more.
I have done it. Its great. I really enjoyed it, lots of different possibilities to go through. Different choices at different times resulted in different endings, though I think there might be only 3 with variations on them. I won't say what they are since that would spoil things for people.

[upidstay]

Many of R.A Salvadore's dark elf novels were number one on The New York Times Best Seller List. Actually, I've always felt that the story of Drizzt Do'Urden would make for an excellent series of D&D movies. With a well known, skilled, and talented director (such as Peter Jackson) and a cast of well known and talented actors it would be a hit with or without the Dungeons & Dragons icon. Personally, I would start the series with Sojourn: Book Three of The Dark Elf Trilogy. While the other two are very important to Drizzt's backstory, they both take place almost entirely in the lightless world of the underdark. Infravision would be very difficult to put into film, and would be very confusing to the uninitiated. There are ways of doing it of course, but anyone in the audience who has niether played D&D nor read the novels wouldn't necessarily know what's going on. They could shoot the scenes using actual infrared technology (which is very expensive and not designed for Hollywood film making), colour the images in post production to make it look like it was shot using actual infrared technology, or shoot it in black & white and colour their eyes red (or in Drizzt's case, purple) to show that a scene is taking place in total darkness. Then whenever the drow come into the light (lighting a candle, going to the surface, etc) the screen goes white in a blinding flash of light and then everything is seen under normal conditions. But starting with the third book, with a scrolling recap of the events that led to Drizzt going to the surface (or perhaps even a montage), and then just continuing from there would be easier and just as effective.



Brad Pitt would make a good Drizzt. He was great in "Troy". It would be easier to get your girlfriend/wife (or girlfriend, as long as your wife doesn't catch you) to go see it.

[Mulsiphix]

I consider myself to be a straight shooter but I appreciate a good looking guy in a role. There is just something about Ron Jeremy playing Lestat in Interview With The Vampire that just isn't pleasing you know?

[Tony Misfeldt]

Brad Pitt would make a good Drizzt. He was great in "Troy". It would be easier to get your girlfriend/wife (or girlfriend, as long as your wife doesn't catch you) to go see it.

Ten years ago, maybe. He's getting a little long in the tooth for the role now. He's in his forties and if Sojourn were successful and they end up doing the whole series, he'd have to play Drizzt for the next twenty years or so. Personally, I'd go with James Marsters (Spike from TV's Buffy The Vampire Slayer). He has the high cheekbones and narrow chin a man needs to play an elf. He's also a pretty good actor, has an athletic build, and with his experience on Buffy is pretty good with the fight scenes. My second choice would be Orlando Bloom. He has all the same desirable physical attributes as James, and he did such a damn good job in Pirates Of The Carribean and Lord Of The Rings. Just as long as they don't give the role to Leonardo Decapitated. I hate him and boycott all his movies if I can at all help it.

I have done it. Its great. I really enjoyed it, lots of different possibilities to go through. Different choices at different times resulted in different endings, though I think there might be only 3 with variations on them. I won't say what they are since that would spoil things for people.

Then I'll deffinately consider adding it to my collection. Granted, I thought the first D&D movie sucked and I added that to my movie collection anyway. But it's good to see that this one has at least one good review. They might want to consider doing the same "choose your own adventure" style for a future live action D&D movie. That might be interesting.

I consider myself to be a straight shooter but I appreciate a good looking guy in a role. There is just something about Ron Jeremy playing Lestat in Interview With The Vampire that just isn't pleasing you know?

Wouldn't that movie be Intercourse With A Vampire?

So who do we need to know or contact about getting a good version of this made using real actors & actresses as well as cutting edge special effects. I'll heed your advice and save my money until it gets made right.

Many celebrities have personal websites with a "contact us" icon that allows you to send them an email. Some of them even go through their own emails and write responces themselves. I'm sure that if you did some checking, you should find websites by Oliver Stone, Peter Jackson, Jerry Bruckheimer, Rob Riener, Ron Howard, Stephen Spielberg, George Lucas, or the writers, directors, and executive producers of the first two live action D&D movies. Send them each an email including a link to this thread on this website. Hopefully they'll read the posts here, understand what went wrong with the first two, and try making the third one a movie that all D&D players and regular movie goers will want to watch. They may even take on the projects of the Dragon Lance and Drizzt Do'Urden movies.

Hey, it's worth a try.

[Tony Misfeldt]

Okay, so we've all given our opinions as to the quality of the first two movies. It's pretty much unanimous that the first one sucked, and the second one was better written but under funded. Now how about predictions for the third installment in the trilogy? How do you see the trilogy ending up? Here are my predictions/hopes...

DUNGEONS & DRAGONS III: RETURN OF DAMODAR

Just as the title indicates, Damodar (played once again by Bruce Payne) escapes from prison and seeks revenge on those who imprisoned him in the first place. I see three ways this could occur.

1) The story takes place a few years after the Wrath Of The Dragon God. All of the actors who played the surviving party members return to reprise their roles (or if they have the budget for it, recast the characters using my above suggestions). The heroes reunite, joining forces with Elwood the dwarf and Norda the elven ranger, to defeat Damodar and his evil schemes.

2) The story takes place a couple of decades after Wrath Of The Dragon God. This time, Damodar successfully tracks down and slays each of the heroes who defeated him in the last movie, except for Berek's wife and Ormaline who are too powerful for a simple fighter to defeat. Lux was killed on her daughter's wedding day right in front of her daughter and her son in law (played by Joanie "Chyna" Laurer and Tyler Mane, who played Sabertooth in X-Men). He kills Nim in his own guild house right in front of the cut-purse he had mentored (played by Warwick Davis). And he kills Berek right in front of his son (played by Orlando Bloom). These friends and decendants unite with Norda, Ormaline, Elwood, and a cleric (played by Liam Naason) who was mentored by Dorian from the second movie, to track down Damodar and stop him once and for all.

3) The last possibility could be the same as either of the previous two with one exception. The title is Dungeons & Dragons III: The Return Of Profion, and it's Profion (who has come back from the dead as a demilich) who breaks Damodar out of prison.

[Farcaster]

Name one popular movie that had a low budget, bad or non-existent props, and a great story. I bet there isn't even one.

Blair Witch Project. The film had a ~$20,000 budget and grossed $248 million. It meets your qualifications in every regard.

Personally, I'd go with James Marsters (Spike from TV's Buffy The Vampire Slayer). He has the high cheekbones and narrow chin a man needs to play an elf. He's also a pretty good actor, has an athletic build, and with his experience on Buffy is pretty good with the fight scenes. My second choice would be Orlando Bloom.

I recently attended a book signing for Salvatore's new book, The Orc King. Someone brought this very thing up and was asking him who he'd like to see playing the role. His response was surprising. Apparently, Vin Diesel has expressed interest to him in playing Drizzt, and Salvatore seemed pretty amenable to that idea. Imagine that one! I'm having a hard time picturing it.

[Mulsiphix]

After I posted the question originally I thought of the Blair Witch Project. I was hoping nobody would bring it up. Well played sir ;)

[nijineko]

Does the name Star Wars mean anything to you? The first movie (now called Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope) had a very small budget for a film of that magnitude (only about $10 million if memory serves), yet George Lucas managed to make one of the greatest sci-fi movies of all time. And he did it with little more than elbow grease, imagination, popcicle sticks, glue, and a whole lot of testicular fortitude.

you forgot the tennis shoe. seriously. one of the ships in the background was a tennis shoe. if you look really close you can spot it.

[Tony Misfeldt]

I recently attended a book signing for Salvatore's new book, The Orc King. Someone brought this very thing up and was asking him who he'd like to see playing the role. His response was surprising. Apparently, Vin Diesel has expressed interest to him in playing Drizzt, and Salvatore seemed pretty amenable to that idea. Imagine that one! I'm having a hard time picturing it.

I can't picture that either. Vin Diesel as Drizzt? Not only does the guy have no acting talent, he's way too damn big! Bob Salvadore is a brilliant author, but I'm afraid he is ill suited to the role of casting director. Although, it's a well known fact that Vin Diesel is a fellow D&D geek. He would probably be a good choice for a different role in a D&D movie (prefferably a villain who doesn't say much and ends up getting killed).

you forgot the tennis shoe. seriously. one of the ships in the background was a tennis shoe. if you look really close you can spot it.

I have watched that movie dozens of times between 1977 and now, and I'd never noticed the tennis shoe! Which scene was it in? Where on the screen should I look?

Name one popular movie that had a low budget, bad or non-existent props, and a great story. I bet there isn't even one.

We're getting a little off topic here, but another example is John Carpenter's 1978 original Halloween. They had a budget of less than $1million and the movie was one of the highest grossing films of all time.

From what I have seen of Autumn Twilight, using CGI with 2-D animation is terrible. They could have, more like should half, done it all the same way: 2-D. Then you don't have these weird mixing things going on.

Though I've got no directing experience, I am pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to make a better version. Probably need to find somebody to do 2-D animation and who knows how to do voice stuff. Oh, don't forgot sound effects.

Or how about an all 3-D CGI version, like the Final Fantasy movie, Animatrix, or the Star Wars prequels? Or motion capture animation like in Beowulf and The Polar Express? It might be better received than an all 2-D version.

[Mulsiphix]

We're getting a little off topic here, but another example is John Carpenter's 1978 original Halloween. They had a budget of less than $1million and the movie was one of the highest grossing films of all time.Your kidding me right? $1 million back in 1970 was hardly a low budget. $1 million by today's standard is hardly a low budget. Pron films with less than $10,000 for a budget bring in millions.

[Tony Misfeldt]

Your kidding me right? $1 million back in 1970 was hardly a low budget. $1 million by today's standard is hardly a low budget. Pron films with less than $10,000 for a budget bring in millions.

I said LESS THAN $1million. I don't remember exactly how much less. I think it was $750,000. Or was it $75000? Something like that. Anyway, A milion dollars sounds like a lot of money to people outside the industry, but the cost of studio time, editing, paying cast and extras, etc, costs a lot more than people realize. Even when you cut corners and find cheaper ways of doing things, the costs still add up to more money than most of us make in a year, or even ten years.

[Dimthar]

Name one popular movie that had a low budget, bad or non-existent props, and a great story. I bet there isn't even one. Today's world has no room for such amateur creations. That is such efforts are not appreciated by the "satisfaction now" point of view so many people seem to collectively share :rolleyes:

I think the "Blair Witch Project" was very decent.

I don't think "Priscilla Queen of the Desert" was very expensive also.

And lets not forget "Memento" which even had 2 nominations to the Oscar.

.

[Drohem]

Momento was excellent. It was filimed in Sunland, CA. I used to live down the street from the trailer park and motel in the movie, LOL!

[Mulsiphix]

I said LESS THAN $1million. I don't remember exactly how much less. I think it was $750,000. Or was it $75000? Something like that. Anyway, A milion dollars sounds like a lot of money to people outside the industry, but the cost of studio time, editing, paying cast and extras, etc, costs a lot more than people realize. Even when you cut corners and find cheaper ways of doing things, the costs still add up to more money than most of us make in a year, or even ten years.Its budget was $325,000 and it was not one of the highest grossing films of all time. It brought in $47 million. According to the box office (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_grossing_films) there were several films released right around that time that brought in 500 to 750+ million.

[Tony Misfeldt]

Its budget was $325,000 and it was not one of the highest grossing films of all time. It brought in $47 million. According to the box office (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_grossing_films) there were several films released right around that time that brought in 500 to 750+ million.

My mistake. I meant to say one of the highest grossing horror films of all time (at least up to that point).

[Mulsiphix]

My mistake. I meant to say one of the highest grossing horror films of all time (at least up to that point).That I agree with ;)

[Tony Misfeldt]

Now, to get back on topic....

FORGOTTEN REALMS PRESENTS...
A DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ADVENTURE...
SOJOURN OF A DARK ELF
Based on the novel Sojourn by New York Times Best Selling Author R.A. Salvatore.

SCREEN WRITER: Joss Whedon, with colaberative efforts by R.A. Salvadore and Oliver Stone. I pick Joss Whedon because he did such a great job writing the TV series Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel. Also, he knows what it's like to have someone else mess with your vision for your movie. That's what happenned with the movie version of Buffy. He wrote the script and sold it to Warner Brothers. They hired a director who said "I think this should be a teen comedy". It was filmed that way and it sucked. Then he got the chance to do it right with the TV show by both writing and directing it and it turned into a world wide phenominon. So if he were to collaberate with R.A. Salvadore on the script for Sojourn,the two of them would make sure that the director won't take any 'Creative License" with the story. I listed R.A Salvadore for the obvious reason that he'd want to make sure that any big screen adaptation of his greatest work stayed true to the original story as much as possible (and when you're as big and muscular as Bob Salvadore, when you tell people to write something a certyain way, they listen). And I added Oliver Stone to the collaberation because of the awsome job he did on Conan The Barbarian. He had written several other excellent movies as well (Platoon, JFK, Natural Born Killers, etc) but Conan was the only sword & sorcery themed movie he'd ever done.

EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: E. Gary Gygax, because he created the Dungeons & Dragons game. Ed Greenwood, because he created The Forgotten Realms campaign setting. R.A. Salvadore, because he created the character of Drizzt Do'Urden. And (in order of preference) either Jerry Bruckheimer because of the awsome job he did on The Pirates Of The Carribean Trilogy, Stephen Spielberg because of the awsome job he did on the Jurassic Park Trilogy as well as The Indiana Jones Quartet, or George Lucas because of the awsome job he did on Star Wars Episodes IV-VI and the mount of money he blew on those pieces of crap called Star Wars Episodes I-III. Dino De Laurentis (spelling?) because of the awsome job he did on Conan The Barbarian and adequate job on Conan The Destroyer (he should have hired better writers though).

DIRECTOR (IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE): Peter Jackson because of his awsome work with The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy. Ron Howard because of his awsome work on Willow. Or Rob Riener because of his awsome work on The Princess Bride.

CAST (IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE)

DRIZZT DO'URDEN: First, Orlando Bloom. He did such a good job as Legolas in LOTR and as Will Turner in POTC that he's a natural choice. Also he's a big enough name to almost garantee a good box office gross. He has the perfect build, facial features, and the look to play an elf. Second, James Marsters. He did an excellent job playing Spike on TV's Buffy The Vampire Slayer. He's not as widely known as Orlando Bloom, but the Sci-Fi/Fantasy geeks (which would be the movie's target demographic) would recognize the name and want to go see the film. He also has all the same desirable physical attributes to play an elf. Final choice is Marc Dacascos (Only The Strong, Double Dragon, Brotherhood Of The Wolf, TV's The Crow: Stairway To Heaven, host of TV's Iron Chef America). Like the other two, he has all the physical attributes making him a perfect person to play an elf (height, build, facial features, etc). Unlike the other two, he actually is an expert in the martial arts (specifically the Brazillian art of capoera). He might not be as well known as Orlando Bloom, but he's at least as well known as James Marsters.

RODDY McGRISSLE: Randal "Tex" Cobb (Blind Fury, Highlander: The Series). He's big, burly, has a gruff voice, and plays an excellent villain. If I had to choose a second runner up, I'd say the guy who played Ogre in Revenge Of The Nerds and Jackson in Bloodsport.

DOVE FALCONHAND: Either Jessica Alba or Jessica Biel. They both have the perfect look to play the famed female ranger. And since it's a relatively minor role, there's very little chance of either of them screwing up the entire movie. And both their names are big enough to almost garantee a good boxoffice gross.

MONTOLIO "MOOSHIE" DEBROOCHIE: The only actor I'd ever really seen as being perfect for this role is Donald Sutherland. Although I suppose Sir Ian McEllan might make a good Mooshie, I think he's be better as Elminster or Vangerdhast in another Forgotten Realms movie.

BRUENOR BATTLEHAMMER: First choice is Gimli's scale double from the LOTR Trilogy, Bret Beatty. He's 4'9", is a classically trained actor, a licensed stuntman, and a blackbelt in karate. Second choice is Lee Arenberg (Elwood from the first D&D Movie). I didn't like how Elwood was written, but when Lee was dressed up as Elwood I said to myself "That's Bruenor!" Third choice is WWE Superstar, Hornswoggle. I don't know how good of an actor he'll be (as Hornswaggle's character never speaks), but he's highly athletic and only stands 4'6". Stick him in armour, a one horned helmet, and a red beard and wig and you've got Bruenor.

CATTI-BRIE: This would have to be a relatively unknown red haired girl between the ages of 10 and 12, as that's how old Cattibrie was when she and Drizzt first met. Unfortunately I can't think of any actresses who are well known and fit that description.

Then if this movie is successful they can do The Chrystal Shard, Streams Of Silver, The Halflings Gem, The Legasy, etc, etc, etc, etc....

[Tony Misfeldt]

I think the "Blair Witch Project" was very decent.

I don't think "Priscilla Queen of the Desert" was very expensive also.

And lets not forget "Memento" which even had 2 nominations to the Oscar.

.

Okay, we're all agreed that there have been numerous movies made with great scripts and on a shoestring budget that went on to become huge commercial successes. The Blair Witch Project, Rocky, Billy Jack, Halloween, Born Losers, Star Wars, Memento, Clerks, Chasing Amy, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

Can we please get back on topic? What would you like to see in Dungeons & Dragons III? What D&D novels would you like to see put to film? Who would you like to star in them? In which roles? Which D&D world would you prefer seeing put on film? Forgotten Realms? Dragon Lance? Greyhawk? Why? Sorry, but that's what this thread's supposed to be about. So how about answering some of those questions? Or critiquing some of my suggestions? Don't be shy, go right ahead. Just please stop listing successful low budget movies. We get the point!

[nijineko]

i tend to be for greyhawk myself, but i don't think that's too likely. if wotc was involved in any decisions about that, then it would wind up in eberron. however, with the pulp noir high fantasy setting that could almost be mistaken for steampunk in some aspects, it would appeal to people who are otherwise not into fantasy. i don't care what you call a lightning rail-it will say train with fancy special effects to most people.

but then with all the interesting things in eberron, it might fall prey to sfx creep and run out of budget.

[upidstay]

I'd like to see Greyhawk, the "original" campaign setting.

[nijineko]

so would i, honestly.

[Drohem]

I would like to see Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits in movie formatt. There would be a lot of hot Drow females in small outfits with swords. :D

Also, the Aerie of the Slave Lords (modules A1-A4) would make good movies.

[Tony Misfeldt]

I only played in Greyhawk briefly when my old gaming group switched from Basic D&D to AD&D back in the late 80s. Then when we switched to 2nd Edition we started playing in Forgotten Realms and I've been playing there ever since. Point is I don't know all that much about Greyhawk so I don't know exactly how good of a story it would make for a movie. But from what I can tell, D&D I and D&D II were both set in Greyhawk. Thus should they come out with D&D III: The Return Of Damodar or D&D III The Return Of Profion it would be written in the Greyhawk gaming world.

I only ever played D&D in the Dragon Lance setting a few times. However I have read quite a few of the Dragon Lance novels. And a live action version of The Dragons Of Autumn Twilight as well as the five novels that follow would make for a very interesting series of movies. Certainly quite entertaining if they're done well.

But my all time favourite is still The Forgotten Realms. I've already written my idea for the first of the Drizzt Do'Urden movies above. I'd also like to see The Finder's Stone Trilogy, The Spellfire Trilogy, and The Windwalker Trilogy put to film. There are so many great stories set in The Forgotten Realms that there's really very few limitations on what could be accomplished. Given the right producers (which I've listed above), the right director (also listed above), and the right group of writers translating the novel to script form (also listed above) there's no limit on what can be accomplished with The Forgotten Realms movie franchise.

[Tony Misfeldt]

THE FORGOTTEN RELMS PRESENTS...
A DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ADVENTURE...
THE CHRYSTAL SHARD
Based on the novel The Chrystal Shard by New York Times Best Selling Author R.A. Salvadore

The roles of Drizzt, Bruenor, Cassius, and most other returning characters from the first movie will be played by the same actors as the first movie. New characters and actors are listed below...

REGIS: My first choice for Regis is Warwick Davis. He's an excellent actor, he looks the part, he loves fantasy stories, and he's very well known. My second choice is Vern "Mini Me" Troyer. He's more of a comedic actor than Warwick, but he's more well known by the younger audience members. If I have to make a third choice, I'd have to say the guy who played Kramers friend Mickey on Seinfeld. He'd have to shave the beard and mustache, but he's a pretty good actor.

YOUNG CATTI-BRIE: Possibly an unknown. For a known actress I would say Dakota Fanning. Or possibly Lindsay Lohan's little sister. It's a small role so exactly who plays it doesn't really matter.

CATTI-BRIE: This actress will be playing the role throughout the entire franchise. My first choice is Lindsay Lohan. If she can stay out of jail/rehab long enough and stay clean & sober, she'd be great in the role. She's young enough to still play an 18 or 19 year old, her natural hair colour is red, and she has the sexy curves that are perfect for the role. She'll just need to spend some serious time in the gym to tone up her arms, legs, and stomach. She looks too soft to be someone who spent her entire life living with the very industrial dwarves. My second choice is Michelle Trachenburg (Dawn from TV's Buffy The Vampire Slayer). Like Lindsay, she has the youth, the beauty, and the curves required for the role. She'll need to dye her hair red, but other than that she's perfect.

YOUNG WULFGAR: If this film is made soon enough, the perfect person to play Wulfgar as a boy is "Little Hercules" Richard Sandrak. He was only seven years old when I first read about him back in 2000. That would make him about 14 now. Just the right age to play the youngster who breaks his pole over Bruenor's head during the barbarian assault on Ten Towns. If they don't make the movie soon enough, and the role of Young Wulfgar is given to someone else, if he's tall enough he might be right for the role of the fully grown Wulfgar. I don't have a second pick for this role.

WULFGAR: This is the Wulfgar who recieves the warhammer Aegis Fang and will be with the group for the next four movies at least. If it takes five or six years to get Sojourn made, and if he's tall enough, then Richard Sandrak should play Wulfgar. The only other actor I can think of who would make a good Wulfgar is Tyler Mane (Sabretooth from The X-Men and Michael Myers from Rob Zombie's remake of Halloween). He's the right size, has the right build, has the right colour hair, has some big movies under his belt as an actor. My only concern is he may be too old to play Wulfgar as a 19 or 20 year old barbarian. He'd be perfect to take over the role in Passage To Dawn should the Drizzt movies ever get made and the franchise actually goes that far. If neither Richard Sandrak nor Tyler Mane can take the role, I'd have to go with a complete unknown.

AKAR KESSEL: I don't really know of any actors who would be perfect for this role, but I can think of a few who might do a good job. James Vanderbeek (Dawson's Creek, Varsity Blues) is a fair actor. I've never seen him in any villainous roles, but I think he could pull it off. Scott Caan (Varsity Blues, Ready To Rumble, Gone In 60 Seconds) is also a fair actor. Much like James Vanderbeek, I've never seen him play any villainous roles. But if he's anywhere near as good as his dad at being a villain, he'd be great. Or maybe Joshua Jackson (Dawson's Creek, The Skulls, The Mighty Ducks I-III, Urban Legend). Again he's never really played a villain, but some of his past roles were real creaps. Point is it should be someone relatively well known, young enough to be relevant, but old enough to look too old to be a wizard's apprentice.

KING HEAFSTAAG: I've only got one choice for this character. Mark "The Undertaker" Calloway. He's the perfect size, has the right hair colour, is the right age. And it's not a huge role so he doesn't have to worry about a lot of lines to memorize.

KING BEORG: Another role with only one choice. Terry "Hulk" Hogan. He's the right size, has the right hair colour (what's left of it), and is the right age. He's also had plenty of movie and television experience (No Holds Barred, Rocky III, Suburban Commando, Santa With Muscles, Thunder In Paradise, Mr. Nanny). Bad acting isn't much of a consideration because the character dies early in the story anyways.

ARTEMIS ENTRERI: This character is very minor in this movie, but as it's the first third of a trilogy it's important that he's properly cast, especially since he's going to be prominantly featured in the next four or five films (Streams Of Silver, The Halflings Gem, The Legasy, and Starless Night). When I originally thought of these books being transferred to the big screen, I thought the perfect person to play Entreri was Steven Seagal. With his martial arts expertise and constant lack of emotion, he'd be perfect for playing a cold heartles assassin. A few problems though. First, playing a villain means eventually your character is going to lose. Seagals's ego is too big to allow him to ever lose in any movie, so he never plays villains. Second, his age. In The Icewind Dale Trilogy, Artemis Entreri is in his thirties. Steven Seagal is pushing sixty (granted he has aged quite gracefully). Third, he isn't in anywhere near the kind of shape he was in back when he starred in Above The Law, Marked For Death, and Hard To Kill. He's going to have to go on a serious diet and exercise program for at least a year, shedding about thirty pounds and a few chins, if he wants to land this role. That being said I have a few alternates. First choice is Colin Farrel. He has the look and the build to play Artemis Entreri. He's also an A List actor who's name will help draw an audience and he did an excellent job as Bullseye in Dare Devil. Second choice is Christian Bale. He's a very good actor. He did an excellent job as a villain in American Psycho as well as in Shaft. He's very physically fit. And he's another A Lister. My third choice is Ben Afflek. He's not as good of an actor as the other two, but to play a heartless assassin you don't really need great emotional range. He's also very physically fit, he likes to do as many of his own stunts as the studio will let him, and he's also an A Lister. Fourth, I'd choose the guy who played Darth Maul in The Franchise Menace and Toad in The X Men (I can't remember his name). He's really well known among Sci-Fi geeks, he's a blackbelt in ninjitsu, and he has the perfect look for the role. Also, as he's no "A Lister", he'd be cheaper to hire. Finally, I would give the role to whichever actor didn't get the role as Drizzt. If for example, Orlando Bloom were cast as Drizzt, I'd probably give the role of Artemis Entreri to James Marsters. Marc Dacascos I would likely recast as Jarlaxl in The Legasy.

[Tony Misfeldt]

I recently attended a book signing for Salvatore's new book, The Orc King. Someone brought this very thing up and was asking him who he'd like to see playing the role. His response was surprising. Apparently, Vin Diesel has expressed interest to him in playing Drizzt, and Salvatore seemed pretty amenable to that idea. Imagine that one! I'm having a hard time picturing it.

If they did start making the Drizzt Do'Urden movie franchise, I would cast Vin Diesel as Uthegental Del'Armgo in the movie version of Siege Of Darkness. He's the right height, weight, build, and with the right amount of acting talent to pull off that role. But not Drizzt. For Drizzt you'd need an actor who's under 6' tall (James Marsters is only about 5'7"), is extremely physically fit but not bulging (like Bruce Lee, not Sylvester Stallone), and can actually act. Vin Diesel just doesn't fit the bill in any way, shape or form.

I didn't like the first one because of the representation of dwarves. Dwarves are my favorite fantasy race, and they are almost universally portrayed in a comedic manner. Gimli in LotR was done well, but sometimes it came too close to comedic relief for my tastes.

The second was better in my view for several reasons:

1. Jeremy Irons as the BBEG.
2. The Greyhawk flavor really was portrayed well.
3. Magic and spells were portrayed well; as well as nicely done in CGI.
4. The CGI dragon kicked ass!

Are you saying that the second movie is better because it does NOT have Jeremy Irons as the BBEG? Or that it would have been better if it DID have Jeremy Irons as the BBEG?

I'd agree with the first one. If it's the second, ARE YOU NUTS?

[Anaesthesia]

And a live action version of The Dragons Of Autumn Twilight as well as the five novels that follow would make for a very interesting series of movies. Certainly quite entertaining if they're done well.

Yes, I agree. :p

[upidstay]

Brad Pitt would make a great Drizzt. Right size and build, he was great as Achilles in Troy.

Rachel Bilson would be a good Catti-Brie. Mostly because I'd like to see her in tight leathers. Anyone see her on the the cover of the latest Playboy wearing paint??? OMG!!!!!!

[Drohem]

Are you saying that the second movie is better because it does NOT have Jeremy Irons as the BBEG? Or that it would have been better if it DID have Jeremy Irons as the BBEG?

I'd agree with the first one. If it's the second, ARE YOU NUTS?

I was confused on which movie Jeremy Irons was the BBEG; I was thinking of the second. Going from memory, I thought that the bald guy Azmath was the BBEG of the first movie. It's been a while since I've seen them, and they were only viewed once.

I am reasonably sure that I am not nuts. However, I suspect that it is highly subjective. Going from memory, I don't remember any specific references to Greyhawk from the first movie. However, I do remember very specific Greyhawk references and flavor of the second movie.

Overall, I liked the second movie way better than the first movie, and thought it a better representation of Dungeons & Dragons which captured some of the flavor and style well.

I thought that the first movie was a tall can of Cheese Whiz; whereas, I thought that the second was only a dallop of Cheese Whiz.

[cplmac]

I only ever played D&D in the Dragon Lance setting a few times. However I have read quit a few of the Dragon Lance novels. And a live action version of The Dragons Of Autumn Twilight as well as the five novels that follow would make for a very interesting series of movies. Certainly quite entertaining if they're done well.


Yes, I totally agree with a live action version instead of the animated one that just came out. I would however like to see the novels that preceed The Dragons Of Autumn Twilight be made also. It would also be nice if they would make them in the oreder that they story progresses, as opposed to starting in the middle and then going back to the beginning and then jumping over to continue after the middle ones. As to who would play what characters, I'll let that up to the rest of you to choose, since I would be happy to just see this take place.

[Anaesthesia]

I did manage to watch Dragons of Autumn Twilight. I would have prefered that they choose either 2d-animation or 3d, and not combined the two together (was it just my dvd player or did everyone else notice that it was very stiffly animated?). It felt like Hannah-Barbara and Rankin-Bass got together and had a child, which is Dragons of Autumn Twilight. I did not find most of the actors very believable nor felt that they believed what they were saying in character. That said, I did find 21 consistancy errors, (from a Techincal standpoint, it felt like the Director and the Editor both fell asleep the first 5 minutes of it and overlooked every error). The majority of the errors were items the party were carrying.

The inconsistancies as follows:
1.When Tas, Tanis and Flint are looking at the inn from the outside, you see their backs. Notice Tas does not have anything in his belt in this view. You see them approach the others, which Tas has his back to the camera. Tas has a Sword (dagger?) in his belt. In the next shot, you see Tas talking to Flint. The sword is not there any longer.

2.Tika comes over to the table and hands Tanis the scroll case with Kitiana's letter in it. Notice she moves her hand (with the scroll case) towards the center of the table. Tanis follows her hand foward to the center of the table. It would make more sense if Tanis moved his upper body around to take the scroll case from Tika.

3.When the High Theocrat is threatening Goldmoon, and the others come to her aid, Tanis seems to be either talking to Sturm (next to him) or outloud to himself. His next line, "Sturm, there is a lady to protect," he swings around (rather than turning his head) and looks toward Flint. Flint also appears to swing his head around to look at Tanis.

4."We can stop here for a moment before we turn that bend" the view of Tas (from back) the sword is not there. The Flint's next line, "For the record, I could keep going," Tas's sword reappears in his belt. When Tas goes off singing to scout, the sword disappears.

5.When Tas pulls Sturm's sword out of the stone Draconian, and falls on his rear end, his hoopak is attached to his belt. When he runs over to the Party ("There are more of those lizardy things"), Tas is holding what appears to be Sturm's sword. Then there is a cut seen to the Draconians, then back to the party, it appears the sword had shrunk/new sword entirely. Then when they run into Darken Wood, Tas no longer has a sword in hand(whatever form), he is holding his hoopak.

6.When they go into the Unicorn's scene (this character may or may not have a name, it's a long time since I've read the book), and the party is sitting at the table. The Unicorn says the line "Come to me, bearer of the Blue Crystal Staff." Notice that Goldmoon rises on "bearer."

7.When Tanis approaches the Unicorn (Goldmoon is already there), his Quiver and Bow are on his left shoulder. When the camera moves to show the Unicorn's view of them (on the line "Disks of Mishakal?"), the Quiver and Bow moved to his right shoulder. It is on the right shoulder when Raistlin approches.

8.When the party lands in the Plains of Abanasinia (the Pegasus are leaving), Tas's sword reappears.

9.When the party is running into the destroyed village, Tas's sword disappears (the sword is on him from the Plains, until here)

10.On Tanis's line to exit the collapsing building (via the secret passage), Tas does not have the sword, but on Tanis's next line "Riverwind!" you can see it has reappeared.

11.On Tas's line "Why can't you do that all-powerful mage?" Tas turns towards Raistlin and you can see the sword has returned to his belt, unsheathed. At the end of Raistlin's reply ("You dolt"), in the wide shot, the sword is not there.

(When made prisoner, the group is forced to give up weapons/belongings. Notice how many times Tas and Tanis have either the bags, weapon(sword) or a hilt)

12.How come the majority of the time they are in the prisoner caravan, Tas looks small enough to pass through the bars?

13. Tas's bags reappear while in this caravan, Fizban also has his bags. Tas has his bags until he mentions that they took his tools, so they could not get out. Tanis has a hilt/strap to hold his Quiver to his back on most of this scene.

14.Right after Goldmoon attempts to heal Brinna, the camera pans to view the party. You can see one of Tas's bags and the strap leading to the other. Note how the bag you can see does not have a strap drawn.

15.When the Caravan topples, as Tanis falls, you can see he has a sword in his hilt as he passes by. When he exits the caravan, it is not there.

16.On "This is our chance to escape." Tas's bags/equipment dissapear, and reappears on "Why didn't you do that before?"

17.When the party approaches wagon with their items, Tanis's bow, Flint's Dagger, and Raistlin's staff are all visible. When the camera pans the party seconds later, Tanis does not have his Quiver and Bow (or at least his bow), then both reappears when you see the rear view of the party and the Draconians approaching the party.

18.When following the Elves into their city, Tanis has his bow and Quiver at the beginning of this, and when he Walks with Riverwind (rear view) neither are there. When Riverwind and Tanis start talking, there is a series of disappearances and reappearances of the Quiver and Bow.

19.Going to the secret door to rescue the slaves/prisoners, Tas's sword is in his belt, sheathed. It reappears when he is talking to Fizban (casting Fireball), when he turns quickly, (Telling everyone to duck), it disappears.

20. On Verminaard's "Then you will die" Note where his morningstar ends-through him! He moves it from hand to hand, the bottom goes through him, as well as one of his hands.

21. Tas's sword appears when he comes out of the shaft, then disappears when the shaft collapses with Fizban in it.

Phew. Did anyone else notice any others? I feel like I should email them with all this. (Aren't you glad I got a BA in Technical Theater to notice all this?)

[Drohem]

ACK!!! I am glad I didn't watch it. I'll keep my fond memories of DL intact, thank you very much. ;)

[Farcaster]

Anaesthesia, I didn't notice any of that. Obviously I botched my perception check... But that is hilarious! Perhaps I was too distracted by the bad acting.

[Anaesthesia]

ACK!!! I am glad I didn't watch it. I'll keep my fond memories of DL intact, thank you very much. ;)

I think I rate it a 4.5, not very great, and not particulary horrible (if you forget all your DL memories). I thought the dialogue in most cases didn't do the story or DL for that matter justice. The characters (for the most part) didn't remind me of the ones I've read of in DL. Let the brainwashing begin!! *lol* This is one time I'd say they could have made it more epic-movie-ish (like star wars or lotr), and not try to pass it off as some cheesy overly kid-friendly movie. ILM would have made a better movie. Last words to the makers of the movie: Focus, you morons!

Anaesthesia, I didn't notice any of that. Obviously I botched my perception check... But that is hilarious! Perhaps I was too distracted by the bad acting.


You have to have Craft(Costumes) as a skill!! I have a +8 to that. I went to school for costumes, so I'm overly aware of what characters are holding and wearing.

[cplmac]

Tas should not be seen with a sword since Kender tender to use their hoopak 99% of the time. Now, if it is a dagger, I would buy that, somewhat. From what I remember of reading the Dragonlance novels, Tas only had a dagger when he got it off of someone else. Usually he never had it very long though.

[nijineko]

bree-yark.

[Anaesthesia]

Tas should not be seen with a sword since Kender tender to use their hoopak 99% of the time. Now, if it is a dagger, I would buy that, somewhat. From what I remember of reading the Dragonlance novels, Tas only had a dagger when he got it off of someone else. Usually he never had it very long though.

I know!! I couldn't decide half the time if it was suppose to be a dagger or a sword. It was kinda of annoying it would be there one second and gone the next. What the heck? There was that one scene where his hoopak frickin kept on disappearing.

Oh, by the way I was lurking on the Dragonlance movie forum and Berem is suppose to be in the refugees part of the movie (supposedly standing next to a half-naked lady :eek:). I haven't had a chance to verify this yet. (What?? I was power reading Dragons of Winter Night, with the exception of the last 1/3 of the book. It made me sad!)

[Tony Misfeldt]

BUT I wanted an opinion on another D&D movie: Dragonlance The Movie (aka Dragons of Autumn Twilight). Apparently the DVD was released on January 15 08. here's the official site:http://www.dragonlance-movie.com

Anyone see it yet?

Okay, I've finally watched this movie. Maybe it's because I was going in with low expectations due to all the bad reviews on this thread, but I didn't think it was all that bad. It wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but I have deffinately seen worse. The animated versions of The Hobbit and Return Of The King for example. It was certainly better than the Dungeons & Dragons Saturday Morning Cartoon that I used to watch when I was a kid. It's maybe equals with the animated Lord Of The Rings movie as well as the animated film Fire & Ice. It's certainly better than the Superman vs Doomsday animated movie (which I felt was far too rushed and should have been a JLA movie). It's also way better than the animated Star Wars: Clone Wars features. I will agree that they should have picked either old fashioned 2D animation or 3D computer animation and stuck with it throughout the whole movie rather than making all dragons & draconians CGI and everything else 2D. It's also been a long time since I had read the novels, so I was a little fuzzy on how close to the book the story progressed. They likely cut large amounts out for time constraints, but unless you've read the book enough times to know exactly what's missing and where you probably wouldn't have even noticed. I didn't really notice all the continuity errors pointed out, but it's a cartoon and things like that happen far more often in cartoons than in live action films and TV shows.

I was confused on which movie Jeremy Irons was the BBEG; I was thinking of the second. Going from memory, I thought that the bald guy Azmath was the BBEG of the first movie. It's been a while since I've seen them, and they were only viewed once.

I am reasonably sure that I am not nuts. However, I suspect that it is highly subjective. Going from memory, I don't remember any specific references to Greyhawk from the first movie. However, I do remember very specific Greyhawk references and flavor of the second movie.

Overall, I liked the second movie way better than the first movie, and thought it a better representation of Dungeons & Dragons which captured some of the flavor and style well.

I thought that the first movie was a tall can of Cheese Whiz; whereas, I thought that the second was only a dallop of Cheese Whiz.

1) Jeremy Irons was the BBEG in the first movie, a wizard named Profion.

2) The bald guy I think you're referring to is Damodar, played by Bruce Payne. He was Profion's #1 henchman in the first movie, and the BBEG in the second movie.

3) I think you were confusing Damodar with the leader of the Theives Guild in the first movie. I don't recall if his name was Azmath, but he's the only other bald headed character of any significance in the movie.

4) You're right in that there were no Greyhawk references made in the first movie. However there were several Greyhawk references made in the second movie, which takes place in the same D&D world as the first film. Thus a Greyhawk setting is implyed.

[nijineko]

retro-fitted! ^^

[Tony Misfeldt]

Brad Pitt would make a great Drizzt. Right size and build, he was great as Achilles in Troy.

Rachel Bilson would be a good Catti-Brie. Mostly because I'd like to see her in tight leathers. Anyone see her on the the cover of the latest Playboy wearing paint??? OMG!!!!!!

While Brad Pitt would make a good Drizzt for the first few movies, he's in his early forties now and would be committing to the role for the next twenty or so years. Sorry but I can't imagine a sixty year old Brad Pitt being able to pull off the stunts necessary to play Drizzt, or having the perfectly smooth skin of a young drow. With someone in his twenties like Orlando Bloom, or in his thirties like James Marsters, and he might be able to pull it off.

Good call on Rachel Bilson, I didn't think of her. Or how about Natalie Portman in the role? Or Scarlet Johanson? They're both excellent actresses, totally hot, A List stars, and still look young enough to pull off playing a girl in her late teens/early twenties.

And I thought of one more actor who would be perfect as Artemis Entreri. I can't remember his name, but he played Darth Maul in The Franchize Menace and Toad in The X-Men. He's the right height, build, and complection for the role. He has the right colour hair, and a black belt in ninjitsu. And when sci-fi fans see his face in the trailers for Streams Of Silver, they'll deffinately flock to theatres to see it.

[Tony Misfeldt]

These aren't D&D movies per se, in that they're not based on any novels, characters, or materials created or owned by TSR/WotC, however they are fantasy adventure film ideas that certainly have a D&D flavour. What do you think of...

THE SCORPION KING II: When we were introdused to the character of The Scorpion King in The Mummy Returns, he was a villain. Then in the spinoff, The Scorpion King, he was a hero. The Scorpion King II would have Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson reprising his role in which we learn how and why The Scorpion King turned heel (to use a little wrasslin' jargon). It would be sort of like the Star Wars prequels, only done in a way that doesn't totally suck.

RED SONJA: This would be a total remake of that horrid piece of crap from the 1980s that starred Brigit Nielson and Arnold Schwarzenegger. I would make it more violent (the blood in the original looked fake and the fights were poorly choreographed) and sexier (make Sonja wear a chain mail bikini, and show the reason why she hates men so vehemently). I'd deffinately lose the character of Prince Tarn Of Hablak and his manservant Falcon, or rewrite them so they're not so comedic. And for God sake, don't end the movie with her kissing Kalidor! If she decides to break her vow and kiss a man who has not defeated her in combat, have him die in her arms first. Then she's not kissing a man, she's kissing a corpse and therefore isn't breaking her vow.

THE BEASTMASTER: This would be a complete remake of the movie from the 1980s starring Marc Singer. I actually found the movie quite enjoyable except for the way the heroes won the fight against the Juns. Having the cannibal bird men swooping in to save the day felt like a deus ex machina to me. A cheap cop out. It would have been much better if after Dar killed the Jun Leader, the city gates opened and all able bodied men and women emptied out of the city withy sword, axe, and spear in hand and ran off the remaining Juns, who lost morale after the staggering losses from the flaming moat and the death of their leader.

WILLOW II: There was a novel written about the adventures of Elora Dannin after she was all grown up. I think it might make for a good movie. I've never actually read it, but the original was so well liked that the sequel would probably be a great hit, as long as it's done well.

CONAN THE CONQUEROR: This would be the third installment of the Conan franchize. Conan The Barbarian and Conan The Destroyer were actually supposed to be the first two thirds of a trilogy. Unfortunately the second movie was so badly done, and such a critical and commercial failure, that the third was never made. Now Ahnuld has retired from Hollywood to be the full time Governator of Kalafonia and won't be making any more Conan movies. Therefore I see two options for those of us who would like to see the trilogy completed. One, make the third movie with someone else in the role of Conan. In that case I would suggest iether Brian Thompson, Lou Ferrigno, or Dulph Lundgren for the role, as they're all the right size, age, build, and have all had a fair amount of acting experience. The second choice is to remake the first two movies with a whole new cast. In this case, Conan The Barbarian should be a near word for word remake of the original, except maybe adding a few elements from the novelization of the story. Like the wizard using spells to kill Thulsa Doom's men during The Battle Of The Mounds, or the fact that The Eye Of The Serpent ruby that Conan stole had mystical powers. And as for casting, I see it like this...

CONAN

1)Kevin Sorbo: He's a little small for the role, but put him on a high protien diet and stick him in the gym for a year and he'll look the part. Also, all those years playing Hercules makes him a natural pick for this role.

2)Tyler Mane: He's the right size for the role, with the right length hair, he just needs to dye it black. He didn't really get a chance to shine in Halloween or X-Men, but I think he has enough experience to pull it off.

3)"The Game" Triple H: He's the right size. Has the right build. Has the right length hair. His hair's the wrong colour, but that's what hair dye is for. Unfortunately, his nose is all wrong. I've read several descriptions of Conan having "raven black hair", not one ever said he had a big schnoz. He's also had some bit roles on various sitcoms, hosted Mad TV, and had a role in Blade Trinity.

4)"The Animal" Batista: He's the right size. He has the right build. He has the right hair colour (he'd have to grow it long, or at least long enough to put hair extensions in). He'd just need to shave off his soul patch and have the make up department airbrush out his tattoos. As far as I know he's never accepted any acting gigs, so I don't know how good of an actor he'd be.

5) "Big Poppa Pump" Scott Steiner: He's the right size, build, everything. He just needs to stop bleeching his hair and shave off his goatee. Once he grows his hair long again in its natural black, he'll totally look the part. He's another one who's never acted before, so I don't know how good he'd be. But he sure looks the part.

6) Kane Hodder: He played Jason Voorhees in Friday The 13th Part VII through to Jason X. Many fans of the franchize were upset that he wasn't cast to reprise the role in Freddy VS Jason. I saw a DVD for another movie he's starred in at the video store, in which he played Ed Gein, but I never watched it. Anyway, Kane Hodder has the right size, hair colour, build, and a fair bit of experience in front of the cameras. Only thing is, Jason's not really that challenging of a role (dramatically speaking) so I don't know if he has the acting chops to pull off playing Conan.

SUBOTAI

I only have one choice for this role, Al Leong. He usually get roles as nameless henchmen who rarely say anything, except maybe a martial arts kiai. You might remember him as Gangis Khan in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, or the guy who tortured Mel Gibson in the first Lethal Weapon movie. Anyway, I think the role of Subotai should go to an Asian actor (the first guy was Peurto Rican) and this guy is way past due for a major role.

VALERIA

1) Lucy Lawless: It's a bit of typecasting, I know. But she did such a great job as Xena for so long that I think she'd be great in the role.

2) Victoria Pratt: Ditto! As mentioned before, she played an amazon queen in several episodes of Xena, and Sarge on Cleopatra 2525. In fact, she was the only reason I bothered watching Cleopatra.

3) Angelena Jolie: She did such an awsome job as Lara Croft in the Tonb Raider movies. Besides, she has no problems with doing love scenes or nudity on film (in fact, she rather enjoys it). And that's pretty much par for course in a Conan movie.

4) Uma Thurman: She looks an awful lot like Sandahl Bergman, who played Valeria in the original Conan. In fact they look as if they could be mother and daughter. She had to become quite the swordswoman in order to play The Bride in the Kill Bill movies. She's an excellent actress with an amazing, athletic body and a host of great (and not so great) movie roles under her belt.

THE WIZARD

Only one actor can play this character. Mako, the man who played him in the first two movies. Let's face it, Mako is The Wizard.

THULSA DOOM

1) Morgan Freeman: He's such a great actor, having done an excellent job in Glory, Se7en, Kiss The Girls, to name a few. If there's one African American actor who can play a powerful and charismatic evil wizard, it would be Morgan Freeman.

2) Samuel L. Jackson: Another great actor, he'd be able to do a lot of the more physically demanding scenes in the move (the attack on Conan's village, The Battle Of The Mounds, etc) that Morgan Freeman would have trouble with at his age. And the fencing training he had to go through to play Mace Windu in Attack Of The Clowns and Revenge Of The S#!t would also be very helpful in playing Thulsa Doom.

3) Wesley Snipes: He did a really good job as Blade in The Blade Trilogy. He's shown his skill at martial arts (or at least at faking it) in many films such as Passenger 57, The Art Of War, U.S. Martials, and the above mentioned Blade movies. Morgan Freeman and Sam Jackson might be the better actors, but Wesley Snipes is the more physical of the three.

[spotlight]

AHAHHH!!! So someone wants a remake of Red Sonya? Well and good. However, I disagree with the thought that she hates men, after all it is very evedent that she is in love with A.S.'s character. The movie indecated that it was a vow of some sort that caused her to insist on being defeated before being 'taken'.

Otherwise, I liked that m