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Aleolus
02-03-2008, 02:26 AM
Here's a feat I came up with for Clerics to get rid of their needing a decent Charisma score. What do you all think?

Wise Turner
You understand that you possess far more strength of will than you do force of personality. As such, you have learned to use your force of mind in place of your force of personality.
Prerequisites: Wis 15+, the ability to turn or rebuke creatures
Benefit: Whenever you make a turn or a rebuke check, you may apply your Wisdom modifier to the turn/rebuke check, instead of your Charisma. As a side benefit, you may also choose to use your Wisdom modifier for Gather Information checks, instead of your Charisma.

rabkala
02-03-2008, 02:39 AM
While it could be useful, clerics are short on feats to begin with. Probably 90% of clerics in my games use their turn attempts to power divine feats or divine meta-magic feats now-a-days. Turn attempts are a powerful commodity that are only used to their potential in a small fraction of games.

nijineko
02-03-2008, 04:39 AM
well, there are int to dex (insightful reflexes), and cha to wis (Force of Will) feats already, so i could see a cha to wis one as well. i'd write up the desc a bit different though:


Willful Turning
Your indomnitable will can be felt by others as a palaple force around you. Your iron determination to accomplish your goal is so powerful, that it can even sway the decisions of those who can feel it's strength.

leave the benefits the same, or just pick one skill instead of two. i would drop the stat requirements. none of the other two feats i mentioned have stat requirements. but keep the turn/rebuke requirement. that makes sense, of course.

Drohem
02-03-2008, 11:13 AM
I like the idea. The 17 Wis is requirement is a bit too high, IMO. I would consider dropping the Wis requirement to down 14 as well. I would drop the skills benefit part of the feat. I would have the feat only apply to: the Times per Day, Turning Check, and Turning Damage.

However, take these suggestions with a grain of salt; I have been called a tight-ass or vanilla GM by my group repeatedly ;).

nijineko
02-04-2008, 01:08 PM
hmmm, that is pretty tight. if it were me approving this as a dm, i'd make it follow the format of the other two feats i mentioned. which would be no skill bonus, no stat requirement, allows wis instead of cha for turn/rebuke checks. after all, you only get seven feats over twenty levels. unless you are human, multiclass, or use the alternate flaws rules.

Drohem
02-04-2008, 01:11 PM
hmmm, that is pretty tight. if it were me approving this as a dm, i'd make it follow the format of the other two feats i mentioned. which would be no skill bonus, no stat requirement, allows wis instead of cha for turn/rebuke checks. after all, you only get seven feats over twenty levels. unless you are human, multiclass, or use the alternate flaws rules.

hehehehe...other than dropping ability requirement, your version is exactly the same thing as I said, LOL.

nijineko
02-04-2008, 01:21 PM
hopefully, that'll come across to everyone as a 'great minds thinking alike' moment. ^^

tesral
02-04-2008, 01:50 PM
I have always been confused as to why charisma was used for turning and not wisdom in the first place. I've always seen it as a test of wills and faith, not a case of who has the stronger personlity. I simplfied the system to require zero charts.

Clerical Turning: Only one try per a given (Individual, not type) undead. Cleric may attempt turning once per day per level plus turning bonus.

A Cleric may attempt to turn up to twice their level in hit dice per try. A 7th level cleric can turn 14 skeletons, 7 zombies, or 2 wraiths in a given turn attempt. They can try to turn a single Undead of any hit dice. The undead turned in a large group would be up to the limit closest to the cleric.

A turn attempt is an opposed roll: d20 + Cleric level + Wis Bonus + turning bonus Vs. d20 + hit dice + Wis bonus + turning bonus

Success will turn any undead away from the cleric. They will move away for six rounds at maximum move if possible and cannot come within 30 feet of that cleric again. If the undead cannot move away from the cleric for six rounds they huddle as far away as possible and can only defend themselves for that six rounds, not attack. (the benefit from full AC but cannot attack) If forced inside the 30 foot range they are -2 to all rolls and cannot attack the turning cleric.

Any undead that are half the cleric's hit dice or less are subject to disruption. Disruption happens if the cleric rolls the equal of the undead's hit dice better than the undead. Example, 8th Level Bob turning three Zombies rolls 20, the Zombies roll 18, 16, and 19. The first two zombies are disrupted, the last is turned.

Drohem
02-04-2008, 02:02 PM
hopefully, that'll come across to everyone as a 'great minds thinking alike' moment. ^^

hehe...I concur! ;)

Aleolus
02-04-2008, 02:19 PM
Thanks for all the comments, people! How's it look now?

razada
02-04-2008, 02:39 PM
well, the whole, 'using your mind thing' how will it work? undead are immune by mind effectsso mental domination or a dual of wills to 'sway the decisions' is out of the question. using mind to affect others sounds more like psionics. if you change the text to not include the mind, or something. undead are tricky, the whole 'immune to mind abilities' is hard to dance around.

nijineko
02-06-2008, 04:09 PM
that depends on wether the mind is directly or indirectly affecting the undead. if the mind is directly leveraging power against, then no... but if the mind is producing an effect, which effect is then used against the undead, then yes. assuming, of course, that the effect itself isn't considered mind-affecting.

DrAwkward
02-06-2008, 04:24 PM
Wise Turner
You understand that you possess far more strength of will than you do force of personality. As such, you have learned to use your mind to affect undead creatures.

how about this for the blurb:
"Rather than using the force of your own personality, you use the strength of your faith to turn/rebuke/chastise."

I'd also suggest phrasing the benefit such that it can also be used with the Spirit Shaman's chastise spirits ability, and the domains that turn/rebuke elementals.

nijineko
02-06-2008, 04:29 PM
excellent ideas, i quite agree! and well put.

Aleolus
02-06-2008, 05:06 PM
Ok, I modified the text somewhat, and I'll edit the effect to ab able to allow other classes with similar abilities to utilize it.

rabkala
02-09-2008, 02:54 AM
With the right builds it could be useful. It is looking better. I would have no problem allowing it in my games.