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imtheguido
01-08-2008, 01:01 PM
So here I am, trying to develop a monster and its stats for a background of a campaign I am working on. A Living spell created from the destruction of an artifact. And the template for creating the creature is aggravating me to no end! Please... please help me!

The spell is a Maximized, Empowered, Widened and Energy Addmixture [Cold] Fireball of 10th level, with the meta magics, effectively making it a 22nd level spell. ((Epic right? )) Now when it comes to the template and turning it into a creature, most of it is relatively simple, till it gets to the saves. It is telling me that:

A living spell has normal saves for a creature of the ooze type (no good saves). It gains a resistance bonus upon all saves equal to the spell level of the highest-level spell upon which it is based.

Considering the living spell is only based on fire ball, it would be a + 3 resistance bonus upon all of its saves. The problem I am running into is that right now I am looking at a Living Cloudkill out of the Eberon Handbook and its saves with 10D10 hit dice are: Fort +10, Ref +9, Will +9. Cloudkill is a 5th level spell, thus it would have a +5 Resistance bonus to all of its saves. Why the hell are the saves different if they are supposed to all be the same?! Blarg!

If you all could help me write out the stats block for this thing, it would be SO helpful! I understand that the area of the spell is supposed to be 40 feet, but I would like the living spell to be a 50ft space, rather than a 40ft, Making it a Colossal ++ monster. The Slam damage in the MM3 manual only lists up to Colossal at 2D8 damage, and am wondering if I should keep that damage the same or increase it two levels to 3D8, fallowing the pattern with 3D6 being for a Colossal + monster according to the chart. I would also wonder what sort of CR increase it would be for being two sizes larger than a Colossal creature?

If you could all help me out with this I would appreciate it VERY VERY MUCH! Thank you in advance.

tesral
01-08-2008, 02:03 PM
What stats did they give it? That could account for the saving throw differecne.

I would keep the damage as d6. It's a spell not a living creature. I have used living spells and they are nasty enough as they are.

I would give it bad saves for 22 HD +stat bonus +spell bonus (3rd level)

imtheguido
01-08-2008, 02:10 PM
The stats of any living spell are: Str, Con, Char = 10+level of the spell used. Dex and Wis are 7+level of the spell used. And intelligence is always nothing, as it is a spell and has no intelligence.

tesral
01-08-2008, 02:15 PM
The stats of any living spell are: Str, Con, Char = 10+level of the spell used. Dex and Wis are 7+level of the spell used. And intelligence is always nothing, as it is a spell and has no intelligence.


There is your difference in the saves. Con is higher than Dex and Wis. Ergo the Fortitude save will be higher than Reflex and Will.

imtheguido
01-08-2008, 02:40 PM
Well, I now definitely feel like a bit of an imbisule. lol. The answer was sitting right in front of me and had me totally boggled. Thanks so much for the help! I can now finish the stats of my monster! Thanks!

PS. Does anyone have any idea what I should add to the CR for the increase in size?

Maelstrom
01-08-2008, 03:13 PM
Here's a SRD link

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#addingHitDice

Looks like each increase in size category will increase the CR by 1.

Consider though that this is a templated living spell, so choosing a CR is not going to be easy... you're reaching past the well tested into new territory, which is awesome, but be careful not to underestimate its CR. Would be better to overestimate it.

DrAwkward
01-08-2008, 03:25 PM
So here I am, trying to develop a monster and its stats for a background of a campaign I am working on. A Living spell created from the destruction of an artifact. And the template for creating the creature is aggravating me to no end! Please... please help me!

The spell is a Maximized, Empowered, Widened and Energy Addmixture [Cold] Fireball of 10th level, with the meta magics, effectively making it a 22nd level spell. ((Epic right? )) Now when it comes to the template and turning it into a creature, most of it is relatively simple, till it gets to the saves. It is telling me that:

A living spell has normal saves for a creature of the ooze type (no good saves). It gains a resistance bonus upon all saves equal to the spell level of the highest-level spell upon which it is based.

Considering the living spell is only based on fire ball, it would be a + 3 resistance bonus upon all of its saves. The problem I am running into is that right now I am looking at a Living Cloudkill out of the Eberon Handbook and its saves with 10D10 hit dice are: Fort +10, Ref +9, Will +9. Cloudkill is a 5th level spell, thus it would have a +5 Resistance bonus to all of its saves. Why the hell are the saves different if they are supposed to all be the same?! Blarg!

If you all could help me write out the stats block for this thing, it would be SO helpful! I understand that the area of the spell is supposed to be 40 feet, but I would like the living spell to be a 50ft space, rather than a 40ft, Making it a Colossal ++ monster. The Slam damage in the MM3 manual only lists up to Colossal at 2D8 damage, and am wondering if I should keep that damage the same or increase it two levels to 3D8, fallowing the pattern with 3D6 being for a Colossal + monster according to the chart. I would also wonder what sort of CR increase it would be for being two sizes larger than a Colossal creature?

If you could all help me out with this I would appreciate it VERY VERY MUCH! Thank you in advance.

I think the draconomicon has rules for Colossal+ sized monsters.

Since its a 22nd level spell, you might want to give it a caster level higher than 10. I know the dice cap at 10d6, but a higher caster level lets it get past SR.

imtheguido
01-08-2008, 03:33 PM
Thanks for the information Malestrom, and as to your suggestion Drawkward, the problem that I run into then is that it will increase the effective level of the spell even more, passed the 22 mark. 22D10 is already a rather impressive monster that one might come up against, expecialy one that does its slam damage, plus 20d6 with a reflex save for half every time it hits you. So by increasing the caster level of the spell, will increase the effective level of the spell as well, which ill increase its HD, make the CR higher, not to mention at a level 22 spell, the thing will already have a 32 SR of its own. But I will definitely consider that as an option.

Edit: There are other factors that I just thought of. Things like it has an engulf ability which does damage to those it surrounds, being a 50ft sphere, it can engulf quite a bit. With it being a long range spell, this 50ft sphere moves 10 feet a second, 60ft movement (10 Squares). And when you are engulfed you are considered to be automatically grappled, which causes further problems.

Maelstrom
01-08-2008, 03:48 PM
Good gosh! How do you defeat that thing?!? I think the Tarrasque would have a run for its money.

And being maximized, it doesn't do 20d6, it does 120, right?

imtheguido
01-08-2008, 03:53 PM
Holy crap... I didn't realize this till just now. Yeah, being Maximized it would always do 120 damage in addition to its slam damage, not to mention the whole 60ft movement at a 50 ft radius. >.> Um... wow... yeah, I think The Tarrasque would be running in fear.

Well currently, according to the CR guide lines for a living spell, even if it was only 20 ft wide (Huge), it would still only be a CR 17 or so... which... cant possibly be right.

Edit: After looking at the Tarrasque closely, it would wipe the floor with this living spell, the reflex to avoid the engulf is way high, is SR is 32 so even if it could hit, it wouldn't be able to penetrate the SR and the Tarrasque is immune to fire damage, so even if it did penetrate the SR and managed to somehow hit it with slam or engulf, it would only take 60 damage before a reflex save from the cold damage.

So to beat it, you use the Tarrasque? lol. jk.

Riftwalker
01-08-2008, 03:56 PM
I doubt that the designers of the Living Spell template had the Heighten Spell metamagic (or maybe even any metamagic) in mind when coming up with the mechanics. We're talking about a level 22 spell here! :)

Maelstrom
01-08-2008, 03:57 PM
Yeah, the metamagic additions easily outstrip the ability of the CR calculations to keep up :)