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upidstay
01-02-2008, 09:18 AM
How long have you folks been playing? Curious how many old timers we have here.

I started with the Basic Set in 1979. Bought it with my birthday money, at age 9. My first character was an Elf. Elf was a class back then, as was dwarf and halfling. There were 3 kinds of swords, a Short Sword, a 2 handed sword, or just a Sword. 1st level clerics got no spells. Elves could not progress past level 8 or so. Then you had to buy the "Expert Set". No one had ever heard of a Drow, let alone one with twin scimitars and an unpronouncable name. I do remember having a statue of a dog or something that would animate and follow me around though...

Anybody raid the armory in "The Keep on the Borderlands"?? Lost 2 good characters on the "Isle of Dread".
Now I have 2 kids, a mortgage and a job, so I don't get to play very often...

Mulsiphix
01-02-2008, 11:16 AM
The majority of players here seem to fall into the "old timers" category. Check out this thread for a general idea of the average age ranges: The Age of Members (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4401)

Farcaster
01-02-2008, 12:24 PM
Well now, that depends on what you mean by old timer. If you're referring to age, then no, I'm a youngling -- barely a sap by any standards :p If you mean, how long I've been playing RPGs, well then I would fall into much the same category as you. I started with the D&D box set at twelve, and quickly moved into AD&D 1st edition. I've been playing ever since, which is about nineteen years.

Drohem
01-02-2008, 12:25 PM
I started in 1982 with 2nd Gamma World. I made friends with David who just moved from Arizona and he introduced me to roleplaying games. He used some charts and materials from 1st Gamma World as well.

After we played that for a while, he showed us Star Frontiers. We had a blast with that game as well. He then showed us 1st AD&D. So, I skipped Basic D&D and never played it. I am glad that I did skip Basic D&D and went straight to 1st AD&D.

gdmcbride
01-02-2008, 12:37 PM
I acquired my first D&D basic box and then the monster manual, players handbook and DMG in the early 80s. My parents bought them for me not knowing exactly what they were but knowing that I was intrigued, they were books and I read them voraciously. I played a little with a few friends but we had no idea what we were doing.

We ran the Keep on the Borderlands for example, reading each description and attacking each individual villager like it were an encounter. The bailiff was really tough. We had no solid concept of a DM despite the examples in the aforementioned material. We read each encounter description, complete aloud. We took them in order. Well, they were numbered!

But in 1984, Origins came to Dallas. I somehow convinced my parents to buy me a ticket and drop me off for ... well, more or less the weekend. I was 12. I soaked it all up. I played my first real session of D&D and Traveler and Champions. I played a war game with miniatures. I saw so much more. I wandered the open gaming halls like there were exhibits seeing the potential of the roleplaying game.

I was locked into the way of the gaming geek. Have been ever since.

Gary

Xaels Greyshadow
01-02-2008, 01:32 PM
"Old Timer." For sure. I can't really remember the exact year, but it was around 77'. I seen the boxed Basic Set in a local hobby store in Pocatello Idaho, where I grew up. I knew I had to find out more about the fantastic game that was contained inside. The store also had the Expert Set and tons of Modules available, so I knew that either my parents, or I would remain financially unstable for some time to come. The day that I had the $10.00 to purchase the scared box came and I begged my mother to drive me to the hobby store so "I could get something." I was the weekend and I was going for the "Sleep over" at a friends house and the box was going with me. My friend Jim and I read through all the material, adventure and all and decided to give it a shot. He was the player and I the DM. I was forever hooked. I was mowing lawns to support my D&D habit of attempting to collect each and every book and module that I could get my hands on. Top Secret came along and Jim and I decided to give that a go. He had begun collecting some D&D stuff too, but Top Secret was new and fresh, and used pretty much the same system as D&D, so it was a easy conversion. Time passed, we grew up. Jim moved away to colorado and was never seen or heard from again. I had no one to play D&D with but continued to collect books and modules. Some 30 years passed and a couple of years ago I was somewhere and lots of people were playing D&D. I was invited to join in the fun. It was the 3.5 ruleset and things were completely different for me. No more THAC0, and much else, but I found the rules to be far easier to understand and things to be much more defined and left little to guess about for either player or DM. I have been collecting 3.5 and some of the more important 3.0 books for a while now and am lucky enough to be only 6 books short of a thorough and complete library of all that is D&D, along with the entire Eberron Campaign world. D&D is my relaxing escape from the day to day grind of life. I have been married and divorced, have a wonderfull relationship with a super woman that is not a gamer, but supports me fully and laughs at my silly D&D quips. I have been caught unprepared for the release of 4E, but will fall into line with the rest of the hordes and purchase the Core books, and being the D&D freak/geek that I am still today, start my library over and purchase each and every book whenever I have some change to spare. Long live D&D. Play, adventure and have fun. If you hear rumor of Xaels Greyshadow in town, lock up your valuables, double tie your purse strings. You are in the presence of a master rogue.

Happy New Years

Xaels

Bloodwyrm
01-02-2008, 02:25 PM
Ive Been Playing For Lets See 15 years at age 7 i played with older friends not too sure on the set. so would i be classified as an old timer????

RealmsDM
01-02-2008, 04:02 PM
well, I had two older brothers who were into D&D, so I was exposed to the basic set sometime in the early 80's- maybe 82 or 83? They let me roll dice sometimes, but mostly made me sharpen pencils & fetch rulebooks & sodas. Then there was the occasional in combat argument where I acted ast the stand in for the wondering goblin encounter & have people slashing at me with my own darth vader lightsaber toy!

I remember the rulebooks were clearly marked "ages 10 & up" so my brothers pleaded that case with my parents & wouldn't let me officially play until that age, but my friends & I would steal the books any chance we could get & started playing.

I had a few characters named after my favorite cartoon characters, like Voltron, Optimus, etc. My first "official PC" was a barbarian made using the Unearthed Arcana rulebook for AD&D- my oldest brother ran "Against the Giants"... today, people still talk about the 4 natural 20's I rolled against King Snuree!!! (and yes, I was still used as the in combat stand in as a PC to Giant ratio)

Maelstrom
01-02-2008, 04:20 PM
I'm pretty young in this group. I started up with the Gold box Forgotten Realms computer games, the first being Pool of Radiance sometime in the late 80s.

One of my friends and I had so much fun playing the game, and we had heard about the pen & paper game so we just used the rules we picked up from the games and played without any source books.

We finally got into the game at 2nd edition, went back to basic D&D for kicks, and I've been playing the latest ever since.

Farcaster
01-02-2008, 06:50 PM
Ahhhh! Pool of Radiance. I remember it and it's crazy copy-protection-translation-wheel well. I loved that game... Until I lost my wheel. LOL. I eventually hacked it though and was able to finish the game.

rabkala
01-02-2008, 08:09 PM
I also started in '79, though I was older than 9.

I lost way more than 2 characters on the Isle Of Dread, your DM must have been a big softee.

I now have 4 children, a granddaughter, a monstrous mortgage, and a real pain in the *** job. I still mange to play quite regularly.

Mulsiphix
01-03-2008, 03:23 AM
Bah I'm definitely young. I was introduced 12 years ago to BattleTech. We actually did quite a bit of RP for just a wargame but then again we used MechWarrior which was an RPG supplement. We did so loosely though so I wouldn't consider it true RP. I played for a solid year and then moved away. I've followed the game, although did not actual playing, until FASA closed their doors in 2001. Luckily it was started back up again by Catalyst Games and I've been following it again. Thankfully my wife and I started playing about a year ago. Little game time, long time infatuation, still super young when compared to how early many of you started. Long live PnP :D

upidstay
01-03-2008, 07:27 AM
Pool of Radiance. Battletech. Top Secret. Gamma World. Those were great games.

starfalconkd
01-03-2008, 08:17 AM
I started in '88 (at 11) with Red Box, followed quickly by the 2nd edition PHB, DMG, and the Monstrous Compendium. I never really played the classic modules. I was weaned on the Dungeon magazine modules of the time.

Skunkape
01-03-2008, 11:40 AM
"Old Timer." For sure. I can't really remember the exact year, but it was around 77'.

Same here. I actually started with Avalon Hill wargames a few years before then, like 3 or so, but that's not role-playing!:D

RealmsDM
01-03-2008, 07:48 PM
Pool of Radiance. Battletech. Top Secret. Gamma World. Those were great games.

wow.. I can't believe someone mentioned Top Secret... that brings me back!

Malruhn
01-03-2008, 11:14 PM
Hehe, I started with D&D in 1981, and played long enough to look down my nose at the guy that walked in a couple months later with that, "Player's Handbook" thingie - you know, with the thief prying the big gem out of the fat idol's eye? Well I made a mistake and read it - and only rarely went back.

GW, Top Secret, Twilight 2000, and even Paranoia!!! were great games for me!

Skunkape
01-04-2008, 08:34 AM
Don't forget Tunnels & Trolls! I remember when one of my friends was running that game. A couple of the party members, I was one of them, got killed about half-way through the game. The system was so easy, I had a new, stronger character in about 5 minutes time and was part of the group about 5 minutes after I had finished the character!:D

Mulsiphix
01-04-2008, 04:47 PM
Anybody here play the original Chainmail before Gary Gygax released D&D?

tesral
01-05-2008, 03:02 AM
1976 with the White Box and Greyhawk. Won't stop until I drop.

Chainmail I never bought. Íve seen it around but never felt the need for it.

Skunkape
01-05-2008, 11:42 AM
1976 with the White Box and Greyhawk. Won't stop until I drop.

Chainmail I never bought. Íve seen it around but never felt the need for it.

Same with me, I've seen it, but never bought it!

Freejack
01-05-2008, 11:57 AM
Yep, D&D in 77 or so. I bought the blue book boxed set (not the Basic or Advanced box sets). This one had the stripped down rules limited to 3rd level I believe (I still have the book so I could go look :) ), a set of pink and white dice, dungeon geomorphs, and the 1-3 level monster and treasure tables.

And I still have all my old games including Top Secret, Gangbusters, Boot Hill, and the like. Check here (http://index.rpg.net/display-user.phtml?user=bofh&site=RPGnet&my=1) for the listing.

Carl

RealmsDM
01-06-2008, 08:09 PM
There was this one game called "Dark Conspiracy" which was a dark future/horror/scifi game. It had your basic "job" setup where you have career options that allow you to gain certain skill sets.
The game had everything from psionic powers, aliens, demons, and big guns that go boom (sorry, I'm watching Evil Dead 2 right now)

The company went under & the game disappeared, but I know a group that updated & played the game for years & finally ended a 11 year campaign 2 yrs ago... worth looking into on Ebay or a convention if you want to try something interesting

Mulsiphix
01-06-2008, 10:52 PM
Dark Conspiracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_conspiracy) looks pretty sweet. Apparently it used the same system as Traveller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_%28role-playing_game%29):The New Era and Twilight 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_2000). What other pen and papers would you compare it to? Overall experience wise?

InfoStorm
01-07-2008, 04:12 PM
I'm another "old time" he started with the blue covered basic book, the one where a skeleton was a 1d4 HP creature and the Zombie was 1d8 hp. That was my older brother's friend's book, my first was the red, then blue, then cyan, black, gold, you get the idea.
I skipped AD&D 1st because there was more than enough material for the Basic rules, and the setting was more defined in my opinion and is still my favorite setting. Also played a lot of Star Fronties setting as well. I actually still preffer Sci-Fi over Fantasy, but it's easier to find D&D players.

Didn't get into 2nd edition until college, where my friends had the books. Played that until 3rd.

Mulsiphix
01-07-2008, 05:17 PM
Bah I didn't want to hijack this thread with a question that would probably do just that. I posted a new thread (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17217#post17217).

InfoStorm is it that hard to find D20 players? Seems like D20 is huge and there is more than enough info for a deep space/sci-fi setting.

tesral
01-07-2008, 10:25 PM
Bah I didn't want to hijack this thread with a question that would probably do just that. I posted a new thread (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17217#post17217).

InfoStorm is it that hard to find D20 players? Seems like D20 is huge and there is more than enough info for a deep space/sci-fi setting.

I have toyed with D20 as a SF setting system and I don't like it. I prefer skill based systems over class based systems as I believe they better reflect the highly varied skill sets that SF type characters have. Hero or GURPS are good example of the later type.

Mulsiphix
01-08-2008, 02:18 AM
After reading a great deal about GURPS tonight I understand. D20 is no longer being considered. I'm not shutting it out for good but it can't compete with GURPS right now for my intro to real RP.

DrAwkward
01-10-2008, 03:40 PM
Started with Champions and rolemaster in 1987 or so. Never actually finished making a character for either, though. Then moved on to AD&D with the worst DM ever, dabbling in Vampire:the masquerade. Eventually, one of the new players we picked up knew better. He saw it was a dysfunctional group and bailed, taking me with him. He ran awesome short sessions in various genres using Cyberpunk rules. When 3.0 came out, I checked it out and saw how beautifully streamlined it was, and jumped on it. Met a bunch of folks at conventions, judged at conventions for a while, and then once I'd found the players who's play style matched my DMing style, started my own campaign.

Mulsiphix
01-10-2008, 03:42 PM
I'm curious how long it took you to find players who's play style matched your own, starting from the time you left that first group with the worst DM ever?

DrAwkward
01-10-2008, 05:05 PM
I'm curious how long it took you to find players who's play style matched your own, starting from the time you left that first group with the worst DM ever?

Using the convention for my scouting was the best. At two conventions a year, it's not fast but boy-howdy is it efficient. I must have met near a hundred gamers all at once, and each con had me at a table with at least 20 different gamers. It took me one con to find my group, but I might have been lucky. I met somebody that was already doing some networking and had a list of cool froods.

Still, there was a long gap between leaving that AD&D group and even trying to start my own. The fellow that had weaned my away had his own group, and I fit in well there (but only as a player - they wouldn't fit in my DMing style)

Finding local players via other means hasn't worked so well for me. When I was recently trying to get a new thing started, the local game stores, gaming clubs, and online sources had all the same wierdos I'd ruled out already, or a new set of wierdos. (present company excluded, but none of y'all are local)

spotlight
01-10-2008, 05:49 PM
Well, I concider myself an old timer. Cut my teeth on a little game called 'Melee' and its compainio 'Wizard'. That was back in '74. Some one gave me a copy of 'Chainmail', but I never actually played it.
Melee and Wizard along with the campaign form, The Fantacy Trip were from Steve Jackson and Metagaming. Later S.J. developed GURPS and since I still have copies of the originals, I can see where the GURPS stuff came from. I love to game.

Farcaster
01-10-2008, 06:53 PM
After reading a great deal about GURPS tonight I understand. D20 is no longer being considered. I'm not shutting it out for good but it can't compete with GURPS right now for my intro to real RP.

GURPS is good at supporting a lot of things, but it really depends on what you are going to run as to whether it will be a good fit for your game. I think D&D/d20 does an excellent job with Fantasy, D&D has a lot of source material for it. Whereas, GURPS does a much better job in a modern or futurisitic settings, as Tesral points out.

rabkala
01-10-2008, 07:15 PM
Finding local players via other means hasn't worked so well for me. When I was recently trying to get a new thing started, the local game stores, gaming clubs, and online sources had all the same wierdos I'd ruled out already, or a new set of wierdos. (present company excluded, but none of y'all are local)

I have run into some of the same weirdo's many times. One from years ago even just happened to move to the same city I did, and replied to an ad I had up at a local store. I ran him out of a game in the late 80's and have run into him at least 10 times since.

I have run into a local guy looking for only girl gamers numerous times. It seems rather weird to me...

As for GURPS versus D20, I prefer D20 no matter the setting. I last played with Gurps rules in the early to mid 90's. I have luck finding D&D players, the rest are very far and few between.

Mulsiphix
01-11-2008, 01:12 AM
GURPS is good at supporting a lot of things, but it really depends on what you are going to run as to whether it will be a good fit for your game. I think D&D/d20 does an excellent job with Fantasy, D&D has a lot of source material for it. Whereas, GURPS does a much better job in a modern or futurisitic settings, as Tesral points out.I was actually interested in running campaigns in the following settings: prehistoric times, dark ages, cyberpunk, steam punk, roman/greek, and early B.C.. Would GURPS not do well with these settings?

InfoStorm
01-11-2008, 09:24 AM
In theory, GURPS works for ANY setting,as it is the Generic Universal Role Playing System. Setup may take longer if you can't find any preprinted material.

tesral
01-11-2008, 10:24 AM
I recently picked up the GURPS Steampunk books. Good stuff.

Mulsiphix
01-11-2008, 01:46 PM
For any of the settings I mentioned, assuming no modules currently exist, would custom advantages/disadvantages have to be created? Not sure how easy that is as I haven't had a chance to start reading the core books yet.

tesral
01-12-2008, 02:13 AM
For any of the settings I mentioned, assuming no modules currently exist, would custom advantages/disadvantages have to be created? Not sure how easy that is as I haven't had a chance to start reading the core books yet.

Well Hero (which is similar) suggests you have a good familiarity with the system before you start creating powers/disadvantages in order to keep you game balanced. Any of the source books will have custom ads/disads that are appropriate to the setting.
Now I need to go sleep for a bit.

Mulsiphix
01-12-2008, 02:16 AM
I was thinking about GURPS today and figured it would be like non-WOTC D&D products but figured I would ask anyway. Are the GURPS supplements, for the most part, interchangeable or they really only balanced in the supplements universe (not even setting). Example if I buy Space for GURPS and then buy Space Travel for GURPS, could I mix and match advantages/disadvantages or would the result be highly unbalanced?

Skunkape
01-12-2008, 11:02 AM
I was thinking about GURPS today and figured it would be like non-WOTC D&D products but figured I would ask anyway. Are the GURPS supplements, for the most part, interchangeable or they really only balanced in the supplements universe (not even setting). Example if I buy Space for GURPS and then buy Space Travel for GURPS, could I mix and match advantages/disadvantages or would the result be highly unbalanced?

I know previous versions of the product tend to balance pretty well as far as cost vs game effect of each adv/disadv. I don't own the latest revision, which ever version that is, but by knowing about previous incarnations of the system, you should be ok with combining different "World" books as they are called.

I keep toying with picking up the new version, but haven't so far. Guess I need to check out the lite version and make an informed decision then!

Mulsiphix
01-12-2008, 04:09 PM
I know previous versions of the product tend to balance pretty well as far as cost vs game effect of each adv/disadv. I don't own the latest revision, which ever version that is, but by knowing about previous incarnations of the system, you should be ok with combining different "World" books as they are called.

I keep toying with picking up the new version, but haven't so far. Guess I need to check out the lite version and make an informed decision then!:eek: Outstanding news! The current version is 4E and it was released in 2004. You can grab the lite rules for 4E right here (http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG31-0004).

jayphailey
01-12-2008, 05:43 PM
Example if I buy Space for GURPS and then buy Space Travel for GURPS, could I mix and match advantages/disadvantages or would the result be highly unbalanced?

They would balance out fine. This is what GURPS is for.

If you are going to run GURPS, think about what you are running in advance and read some of the books.

You mentioned running GURPS Starship Troopers

I'd get Space, High Tech, Ultra Tech and Aliens (If they have realeased a 4th edition of Aliens)

But I'd also list what I'd let players use and what I'd want them to avoid.

GURPS is like a kit. You take the pieces you want to create the world you want. You don't have have to use all the pieces if you don't want.

Jay ~Meow!~

Mulsiphix
01-12-2008, 09:20 PM
GURPS is like a kit. You take the pieces you want to create the world you want. You don't have have to use all the pieces if you don't want.That is what I love about GURPS so much. For all my adventures I plan on having a list of things that aren't allowed to be used with the setting I'm running. I look forward to customizing the hell out of my adventures :cool:

Skunkape
01-14-2008, 08:28 AM
The only issue I've ever had with GURPS is just my analness. In GURPS, being a point based system, I want my players' characters to balance, you know, the correct number of disads to make up for the number of points in ads, stats, etc. So when running a game like GammaWorld, using the GURPS system, if one of the players gets a strong mutation, compared to the other players, then he doesn't balance anymore pointwise.

But as I said, that was just my analness.:p

Well and the complexity with which to build a vehicle from the GURPS rules!:D

jayphailey
01-14-2008, 09:16 AM
In theory, the point cost of the power/mutation would balance the characters.

GURPS is sort of complex. But Hero system is even more so.

I like Hero System.

But for some reason, I don't know why d20 ate my brains. It was everything I wever Wanted AD&D to be in the early 1980s.

Jay ~Meow!~

tesral
01-14-2008, 03:50 PM
d20 has limitations. The more skills intense your setting the more it falls down. For modern it is crumbly. For future it IMHO just does not cut the mustard.

I will take d20 every time for fantasy, but I don't like level based systems for modern heroic or future heroic. It forces too many compromises in the character building.

Doctor Romulus
01-14-2008, 04:13 PM
1981 - My wife was pregnant with my first and I asked an old friend about that "weird game" he played in HS. He invited a friend over and we started playing the D&D with the blue green cover. My character was put together inside of 10 minutes on a piece of cut out paper bag. Went on to AD&D 1st, Champions, Lords of Creation, Call of Cthulhu, GURPS in 1986 later came AD&D 2nd and many others. Don't play now as much as I'd like to :(, something I'm working real hard at changing.

Mulsiphix
01-14-2008, 04:25 PM
I think all rule systems have their limitations. I think D&D is hands down the best system for a fantasy setting. For other settings, that is highly debatable. GURPS is perfect for custom settings that require the ability to highly customize a character, something class based systems tend to suffer from greatly. For ridiculous combat on a massive level (modern/futuristic) BattleTech wins hands down IMHO, but for insane non-reality ruled battles I think Exalted takes the cake. The key IMHO is to learn multiple systems and merge tie them together. MechWarrior RPG for BattleTech is horrible for RP'ing as the mechwarrior that pilots your Mechs. GURPS however, when used in conjunction with the BattleTech rules is PERFECT for RP'ing your mechwarrior when he/she isn't in the cockpit.

Skunkape
01-15-2008, 08:00 AM
In theory, the point cost of the power/mutation would balance the characters.

Only if all characters were within a few points of each other, but in Gamma World, the concept of the game is that when a character is exposed to a mutagen (radiation, bio-weapon, etc.), the character usually gains a random mutation, which could benefit or hinder them. If they get something that would work out to cost 50 points, but none of the other characters received something like that, now I have 1 character that costs 150 points while the others only cost 100 points.

At least in theory that's what could happen. As a GM, you can handle such things, but personally, it just bothered me, but as I said, it's just me being anal about the point costs in the game.:D

As far as system comparisons, I like d20 better for fantasy as well, tried in for modern/future and it just doesn't feel right. Hero System works well for supers campaigns, though I think Mutants and Masterminds might also work well, just haven't played/run it yet. GURPS does well for modern/future games, but can also be used for fantasy, as long as you're looking for a low magic game.

Mulsiphix
01-15-2008, 09:29 AM
GURPS does well for modern/future games, but can also be used for fantasy, as long as you're looking for a low magic game.Even in a high magic game couldn't GURPS be tailored to such a setting if somebody had enough GURPS books and took enough time to create the advantages/disadvantes needed?

tesral
01-15-2008, 09:52 AM
Even in a high magic game couldn't GURPS be tailored to such a setting if somebody had enough GURPS books and took enough time to create the advantages/disadvantes needed?

There are magic setting source books. I have some of them. Some of us just think it's more work than it's worth. Why hash a high magic setting out of GURPS when D&D has the issue covered, and is no more and more likely less complex?

Now for a Conan style low magic setting I might look to GURPS as it would be easier to limit the magic in the build than to try to put the brakes on D&D magic. You play D&D you get a high magic setting. Anything else is a good deal of work to create and you need to twist the rules to fit it. If I have to twist the rules, I might as well start with a system who's rules are designed to twist.

It is all a matter of how much ground work do you want to do before you start to play? Heroic High Fantasy? I'll take D&D every time. Anything else? I'll look to something else.

Mulsiphix
01-15-2008, 10:06 AM
It is all a matter of how much ground work do you want to do before you start to play? Heroic High Fantasy? I'll take D&D every time. Anything else? I'll look to something else.This is exactly why I'm choosing GURPS as my first system. With D&D I am generally restricted to a fantasy setting. With GURPS the settings can vary a great deal with little effort on my part. Then again GURPS is all about effort isn't it? World building that is...

tesral
01-15-2008, 11:31 AM
This is exactly why I'm choosing GURPS as my first system. With D&D I am generally restricted to a fantasy setting. With GURPS the settings can vary a great deal with little effort on my part. Then again GURPS is all about effort isn't it? World building that is...

As much or as little as you please. That is were the various source books are your friend.

Mulsiphix
01-15-2008, 01:05 PM
Tesral could you pay a visit to this thread (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4924) and give me some feedback? Your wisdom is needed yet again ;)

Skunkape
01-16-2008, 09:36 AM
I pretty much feel the same way as tesral as far as the low/high magic setting and choice of rules!

Mulsiphix
01-16-2008, 12:17 PM
Just about everybody feels that way. Thankfully I'm not that big on magic in a fantasy sense so it isn't much of a concern. If I was in a horrible bind though I'm sure I could whip something high magic up. How complex and deep it would run though I couldn't say. Again I can't imagine having a setting drenched in high magic.

RealmsDM
01-16-2008, 08:06 PM
d20 has limitations. The more skills intense your setting the more it falls down. For modern it is crumbly. For future it IMHO just does not cut the mustard.

I will take d20 every time for fantasy, but I don't like level based systems for modern heroic or future heroic. It forces too many compromises in the character building.

I agree.., it works well for fantasy rpg's, but I find it lacking for sci-fi & modern games. I like the job or career style character building method for those games, where you gain skills & options based on background history, training & life experience.

Mulsiphix
01-16-2008, 10:44 PM
Switching professions is a lot easier in skill based. You can't really do that in class based because you have to flat out change classes, making all the current skills for the class your dropping useless. At least in a point system you can still use the skills you have already purchased. Definitely a plus :D

Drohem
01-16-2008, 11:14 PM
Switching professions is a lot easier in skill based. You can't really do that in class based because you have to flat out change classes, making all the current skills for the class your dropping useless. At least in a point system you can still use the skills you have already purchased. Definitely a plus :D

I disagree. d20 Modern is set up to multi-class, and Profession is not tied to class. You could have a Smart, Dedicated, or Charismatic Hero all be of the same job or Profession.

Mulsiphix
01-16-2008, 11:25 PM
What if I was a Ranger/Monk in 3.X and decided later I wanted to switch over to being a Ranger/Druid. All my monk skills would be wasted wouldn't they?

Drohem
01-17-2008, 01:54 AM
What if I was a Ranger/Monk in 3.X and decided later I wanted to switch over to being a Ranger/Druid. All my monk skills would be wasted wouldn't they?

Umm no...you would retain all your Monk skills and abilities.

Maelstrom
01-17-2008, 08:24 AM
What if I was a Ranger/Monk in 3.X and decided later I wanted to switch over to being a Ranger/Druid. All my monk skills would be wasted wouldn't they?

Are you thinking gestalt characters (ones with two classes each level) or standard characters?

In 3.5, every time you get a new level for a standard character you pick a class for that level. You can pick one of the classes you already have, choose a new class, or pick up a prestige class you are qualified for.

So if you got some levels in Ranger and some in Monk, and later decided you'd like to take some levels in Druid, you'd be able to use all the abilities you gained in any of the classes (though this particular combination is definitely not the most powerful... too much diversity and you don't get any strengths).

Gestalt characters are a little different:
Each level you pick two classes to gain a level in, and take the best abilities from both. So if you leveled as a Ranger/Monk a couple levels, and then did a Ranger/Druid level, you'd add all the abilities of a ranger of your ranger level, a 1st level druid, and retain your monk abilities as well.

DrAwkward
01-17-2008, 10:34 AM
Are you thinking gestalt characters (ones with two classes each level) or standard characters?

In 3.5, every time you get a new level for a standard character you pick a class for that level. You can pick one of the classes you already have, choose a new class, or pick up a prestige class you are qualified for.

Right, for example, I had a 6th level character that was ranger1/monk5, when I hit character level 7 I *could* take a level in Druid, and be ranger1/monk5/druid1.

So long as I still meet all the alignment requirements for each class (monks must be lawful, driuds must be neutral -- so I'd better be Lawful Neutral), I would keep all my class abilities.

My class abilities would all add up;
I'd look up my saves and base attack for my level on each character and add them up..
For example, my Base Attack would be +1 from ranger, +3 from monk, and +0 from druid, leaving me with a total base attack of +4.

I'd be proficient with martial weapons (from ranger), though my unarmed attacks would still be decent (from monk) and I'd get first level druid spells. In theory, if I kept going with druid I could eventually wildshape into panda and do Kung-fu. ;)

The gestalt stuff is a variant that is well loved by power gamers (myself included) but is not recommended by those just learning the game.

Drohem
01-17-2008, 10:45 AM
There are no Gestalt characters in my House Rules :)

Maelstrom
01-17-2008, 12:52 PM
Only time I could see using gestalt characters is if I only have two players... having gestalt characters would make it a lot easier to pick up the rouge and cleric abilities while still being able to hit hard with arcane classes and fighters.

Of course, in this case, I might just stick a couple NPCs with the players anyways.

Drohem
01-17-2008, 01:05 PM
Only time I could see using gestalt characters is if I only have two players... having gestalt characters would make it a lot easier to pick up the rouge and cleric abilities while still being able to hit hard with arcane classes and fighters.

Of course, in this case, I might just stick a couple NPCs with the players anyways.

I agree; in the case of only one or two players, then I could see using Gestalt characters.

I might just do the later as well; it would depend on the campaign and how lazy I was feeling ;)

MortonStromgal
01-17-2008, 01:41 PM
1985-86ish I was around 8, a older friend had a D&D box set. We played it like a board game of dungeon dives from time to time, nothing regular. Fast forward to 16-17 when I met my first GM who started us with Traveller: The New Era and then on to Shadowrun (My love, and when I decided this was for me) he also ran some AD&D, Dark Conspiricy, and maybe one or two other. I also met some other GMs and played GURPS, TMNT, and MERPS. I started GMing Shadowrun (after some failed attempts at GURPS and AD&D) and the rest is kinda history. Recently I've gone into GM retirement (almost a year if you dont count a couple one shots) and have enjoyed just being a player again. Though the GM coals still linger inside me. Perhaps in another year I might consider taking that hat again. :cool: Certainly I have some players who would love that but the one shots have shown me I'm still very 50/50 and just cant get in the groove. We tried to make some of the one shots go to two but I failed horribly so its just best I stay out of it till whatever is messing up my focus corrects itself.

tesral
01-17-2008, 01:59 PM
Just about everybody feels that way. Thankfully I'm not that big on magic in a fantasy sense so it isn't much of a concern. If I was in a horrible bind though I'm sure I could whip something high magic up. How complex and deep it would run though I couldn't say. Again I can't imagine having a setting drenched in high magic.

It's a real bear to clean off. No I don't mean difficult, you have to get the bear off of you. fortunately it was confused and getting it off wasn't too dangerous. I don't think the trash guys were real happy with the bear in the rubbish.

Mulsiphix
01-17-2008, 07:16 PM
Are you thinking gestalt characters (ones with two classes each level) or standard characters?I was talking standard characters. I didn't know D&D worked that way. I thought that multi-classing was restricted to two classes (like many video game RPG's I played) and that if I decided to become a druid I would have to completely abandon my Ranger or Monk class. Thank you for setting me straight guys :D

Maelstrom
01-17-2008, 07:18 PM
That was 2nd edition, which many of those games were modelled after. Humans could 'Dual class' into a new class after playing the first for a while.

Though even in 2nd edition, if you leveled your new class above your first, you regained the abilities of your old class (but you couldn't advance it any further).

Drohem
01-17-2008, 08:09 PM
One the great things about 3.X D&D is the lift on multiclass restrictions; there are still some rules and guidelines, but it is much better than the AD&D rules.

Also, d20 Modern is set up so that you should multiclass, and there are absolutely no restrictions in that game. :)

Mulsiphix
01-18-2008, 01:22 AM
Very cool indeed. I stand pleasantly corrected and informed :D

Aleolus
01-18-2008, 11:55 AM
I've been playing D&D since about 03 or 04, I can't remember exactly. I got into it because it's a social game that is not real-world, physical based. I'm not much of a physical person, so that was a big draw for me.

Mulsiphix
01-18-2008, 10:16 PM
Was it your first pen and paper game? If so how do you like it? If not, what was the first game system you played?

tesral
01-19-2008, 01:34 AM
Also, d20 Modern is set up so that you should multiclass, and there are absolutely no restrictions in that game. :)

In Modern it is more or less expected that you will.

In D&D there are advantages and disadvantages. The pure class character gains power more evenly and steadily. The multiclass PC gains a broader range of skills and class abilities, but with lower pluses for success. It is quite possible to milticlass a PC into utter uselessness.

Mulsiphix
01-19-2008, 01:52 AM
I don't think you could ever multiclass a PC into utter uselessness. They would be a jack of all trades, even if their abilities weren't up to par with their other party members. Unless the party is huge or full of multiclass PC's, then the super multiclasser mentioned before would be quite useful in a myriad of situations.

tesral
01-19-2008, 04:17 AM
I don't think you could ever multiclass a PC into utter uselessness. They would be a jack of all trades, even if their abilities weren't up to par with their other party members. Unless the party is huge or full of multiclass PC's, then the super multiclasser mentioned before would be quite useful in a myriad of situations.

You can. I have seen it done. You dilute your available abilities to the point that you PC can do nothing well. An 8th level magician or an 8th level fighter is much more useful against an 8th level monster than a 2nd level fighter 2nd level cleric, 2nd level rogue, 2nd level magician. The latter is a so so fighter, and and underpowered cleric, rogue, magician. They would have only first level spells and the most rudimentary skill bonuses for their rogue skills. To use their spells they need to avoid the heavy armor that gives fighters the ability to withstand close combat, and instead of the 8 d10 for hit points of a pure fighter they have the two each of d4, d6, d8, d10. Likely more hit points than the pure magician, but without the powerful spells of said magician.

Most multi class PCs either have a good in game reason, or take complimentary classes.

Maelstrom
01-19-2008, 05:06 AM
In general, people don't like to advance on anything else more than a couple levels if they start as a spellcaster... it is usually more appealing to get access to the next level of spell and more castable per day of your highest level spell than it is to pick up a new skillset.

There are exceptions, but that seems to be the unspoken rule.

Mulsiphix
01-19-2008, 05:37 AM
Alright my post was more of a "in theory" debate but I agree that in probably 97-99% of campaigns, a diluted multi-classer would be useless.

Maelstrom
01-19-2008, 06:39 AM
I'm not saying that at all. You just have to pick your multiple classes well.

Here's an example: a fighter with a couple sorceror levels. He picks up some of the nice movement and defense spells from the sorceror levels that aids him in his primary role of a combat machine. He probably would use lighter armor because of the reduced chance for spell failure, but the speed and movement capabilities he picks up allows him to make the most tactical advantage out of any conflict.

Mulsiphix
01-19-2008, 06:56 AM
Bah I should have quoted. I was responding to tesral's infinite multi-classed PC example. Somebody who multi-classes as much as is possible and evenly spreads their XP across each class, would be useless in 97-99% of campaigns. Multi-classing in general is extremely useful in my opinion ;)

upidstay
01-19-2008, 10:58 AM
My old roommate created a character shortly after 3.0 came out. It was about 20th level total, with a level or two in each class. Did it just to see what would happen. It was, in fact, a fairly useless character. It was bad at everything. Saves and to hit were pretty good, but a 10/10 split would have been alot more effective, or a 7/7/6 level split.

Aleolus
01-19-2008, 11:44 AM
Was it your first pen and paper game? If so how do you like it? If not, what was the first game system you played?

Yes, it was my first P&P game, and I like it very much. Since then I have found that I actually prefer certain aspects of other systems over those of D&D (like the CODA version of spellcasting, rather than D&D's spells per day), but on the whole I still like D&D quite a bit.

Mulsiphix
01-19-2008, 12:29 PM
Yes, it was my first P&P game, and I like it very much. Since then I have found that I actually prefer certain aspects of other systems over those of D&D (like the CODA version of spellcasting, rather than D&D's spells per day), but on the whole I still like D&D quite a bit.After trying other systems is D&D your most favorite?

Grimwell
01-19-2008, 01:25 PM
The first game I was exposed to was AD&D in 1982. I stayed the night at a friends for his birthday, and discovered that everyone there played this strange and wonderful game. I watched while they unfolded a map of Greyhawk and then played and it was over.

When I went home I made my own game, and did the allowance/mow lawns routine until I could afford the red box. My father used to fly RC airplanes, and his store for parts had a small RPG section as a 'hobby' which worked for me.

From there it was over and I've tried most everything out there at least once in the last 25 years (freaky to think that, I've done a quarter of a century of gaming!)...

I think of that night at my friends house as a major turning point in my life... because I directly attribute my employment to my love of gaming and it kicked off way back then. :cool:

Mulsiphix
01-19-2008, 01:28 PM
I've got to know now, what "employment" type did your love of gaming lead you to?

rabkala
01-19-2008, 01:39 PM
I believe he is one of the best known actors in the midget porn industry.

Mulsiphix
01-19-2008, 01:42 PM
Hehe I just read in another thread he makes MMO's. I think your thinking of... well I can't say the name here ;)

tesral
01-19-2008, 11:45 PM
Bah I should have quoted. I was responding to tesral's infinite multi-classed PC example. Somebody who multi-classes as much as is possible and evenly spreads their XP across each class, would be useless in 97-99% of campaigns. Multi-classing in general is extremely useful in my opinion ;)

Multiclassing is a tool. Like any tool it can be used well. or used poorly.

jayphailey
01-20-2008, 12:10 AM
I agree. But you'll never convince anyone who hasn't played D20 Modern.

Ah well. I like the thing. I don 't know why. I just do.

Jay ~Meow!~

Drohem
01-20-2008, 02:51 AM
I agree. But you'll never convince anyone who hasn't played D20 Modern.

Ah well. I like the thing. I don 't know why. I just do.

Jay ~Meow!~


I with you; I dig d20 Modern a lot as well. I just like the concept of the Basic classes being based off an Attribute. :cool:

jayphailey
01-20-2008, 06:33 AM
for example - If you were playing a Ranger 4/ Monk 3 and then added Druid 1

Your character would be an 8th level character. He wouldn't Ranger as well as an 8th level Ranger. He wouldn't Monk as well as an 8th Mnk. He wouldn't Dru as well as an 8th level Druid.

Some compare the total level to the abilities he gains from Druid 1 and say, "That's so weak as to be useless."

IMHO, people sometimes forget the versatility that comes from multiclassng. You exchange versatility for power.

A single class fighter will hit harder than a multiclassed flighter, but the multiclassed fighte can do more different things.

If the single classed fighter doesn't kill him first.

Ass a Matter of Gaming Style, some multiclasses work, some don't.

for instance. Monk is not only a character class, but a way of life. I wouldn't let omeone take "Monk" in my game unless they really sold me on the background and the character's committment to tyhat way of life.

He could multiclass out of Monk, but that would mark his leaving the way of his order and bandnng that path. No more levels of monk.


Similarly, being a Druid isn't just something people do. It' a religion and a world view, as well.

So if you presented me with a good story about ranger/monk/druid's life path and how he got to where he is, I'll buy it.

But if I hear "Because then I can get this attack or that special ability" I am going to have an issue. I would much prefer player to pick classes based on their character's story both before and during play. I want the chlasses chosen to represent the character's training, view on life and how he responds to things.

Jay ~meow!~

Dravion
01-20-2008, 07:39 AM
My brother started in 1979 with the D&D Box Set, and when I was born in 1981 he didn't want me to have anything to do with it. But I've been playing since 1987 roughly.

Drohem
01-20-2008, 12:03 PM
for example - If you were playing a Ranger 4/ Monk 3 and then added Druid 1

Your character would be an 8th level character. He wouldn't Ranger as well as an 8th level Ranger. He wouldn't Monk as well as an 8th Mnk. He wouldn't Dru as well as an 8th level Druid.

Some compare the total level to the abilities he gains from Druid 1 and say, "That's so weak as to be useless."

IMHO, people sometimes forget the versatility that comes from multiclassng. You exchange versatility for power.

A single class fighter will hit harder than a multiclassed flighter, but the multiclassed fighte can do more different things.

If the single classed fighter doesn't kill him first.

Ass a Matter of Gaming Style, some multiclasses work, some don't.

for instance. Monk is not only a character class, but a way of life. I wouldn't let omeone take "Monk" in my game unless they really sold me on the background and the character's committment to tyhat way of life.

He could multiclass out of Monk, but that would mark his leaving the way of his order and bandnng that path. No more levels of monk.


Similarly, being a Druid isn't just something people do. It' a religion and a world view, as well.

So if you presented me with a good story about ranger/monk/druid's life path and how he got to where he is, I'll buy it.

But if I hear "Because then I can get this attack or that special ability" I am going to have an issue. I would much prefer player to pick classes based on their character's story both before and during play. I want the chlasses chosen to represent the character's training, view on life and how he responds to things.

Jay ~meow!~


Yes, I agree that it's a trade off. As a player, I create the initial concept for my character, but after that I let the campaign flow influence my character development choices. In other words, I don't plan builds out to 20th level even before I have played the character once. So, I sometimes have some varied characters who aren't one pure class. They may not have all the bonuses of the pure class, but in reality, IMHO, the difference isn't game breaking. So your total attack is a couple points less, your saves a little less, etc. It's worth it to me because I feel it goes towards role-playing rather than munchkinism.

Mulsiphix
01-20-2008, 01:49 PM
My brother started in 1979 with the D&D Box Set, and when I was born in 1981 he didn't want me to have anything to do with it. But I've been playing since 1987 roughly.Sounds like your brother was either a real gaming addict or didn't like what he saw when he picked up that box set. Why didn't he want you playing?

jayphailey
01-20-2008, 06:26 PM
It's worth it to me because I feel it goes towards role-playing rather than munchkinism.

I really like Role-Playing as Opposed to Munchkinism.

I have a picture of who the character is when we start a game, but the events of the game change the spin - in a good game. That's part of the whole point. The character sees things and situations that cause him to develop as a person.

Jay ~Meow!~

Mulsiphix
01-20-2008, 07:41 PM
I really like Role-Playing as Opposed to Munchkinism.What is Munchkinism? I've seen the term Munchkin thrown around when talking about D&D but I thought it was a product line up until now :confused:

Drohem
01-20-2008, 08:43 PM
What is Munchkinism? I've seen the term Munchkin thrown around when talking about D&D but I thought it was a product line up until now :confused:

Munchinism is not related to D&D only. It is a term that can be used in any RPG.

Exalted is commonly referred to as a munchkin RPG.

A munchkin is a power-gamer who plays aggressively and to win all the marbles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchkin_(role-playing_games)

Steve Jackson Games created a game called Munchkin as a paraody game originally, and it panned out into a full-fledged RPG.

http://www.sjgames.com/munchkin/rpg/playershandbook/

http://www.sjgames.com/munchkin/rpg/

http://www.sjgames.com/munchkin/game/

Mulsiphix
01-20-2008, 08:49 PM
The wiki you linked to says it doesn't have an article for that topic lol. I had no idea SJGames published D20 content. Thanks for the info. I too prefer role playing to munchkinism.

tesral
01-20-2008, 08:56 PM
What is Munchkinism? I've seen the term Munchkin thrown around when talking about D&D but I thought it was a product line up until now :confused:

One could almost say it was. (The SJ Games game aside.)

Originally it referred to second generation gamers who in general were younger than those that "discovered" (invented) RPG. And was more concerned with the age/size factor. I have heard the sentence "This con is overrun with Munchkins." Referring to the 12-16 set. Mind you that was, what '77-'79, in that area.

The current meaning, as was explained, is the no holds bared power gamer. Not just someone that power games, but someone that is willing to twist the rules, subvert the setting, and out right cheat to get the most powerful character in the UNIVERSE! And doesn't consider the gamer "fun" unless they.do. How the rest of the table sees their antics is of no concern. The game is all about them.

Munchkin has never been used except as a derisive term, and it has gotten more derisive with time.

Mulsiphix
01-20-2008, 09:01 PM
The current meaning, as was explained, is the no holds bared power gamer. Not just someone that power games, but someone that is willing to twist the rules, subvert the setting, and out right cheat to get the most powerful character in the UNIVERSE! And doesn't consider the gamer "fun" unless they.do. How the rest of the table sees their antics is of no concern. The game is all about them.It is called a door and I would quickly show it to a munchkin. Sounds like a game killer. All I know is if I ended up being in a group with one, I would attempt to kill them in game. If it got me kicked out, it was more than worth it :cool:

tesral
01-20-2008, 09:12 PM
It is called a door and I would quickly show it to a munchkin. Sounds like a game killer. All I know is if I ended up being in a group with one, I would attempt to kill them in game. If it got me kicked out, it was more than worth it :cool:

They can be a game killer. One reason for the vile hatred of the breed. However, becasue of that they can be sneaky about it too.

Mulsiphix
01-20-2008, 09:14 PM
Can you give me an example of their sneaky-ness? I can't imagine somebody pulling one over on the DM or players and nobody noticing what they're trying to do.

tesral
01-20-2008, 10:13 PM
Can you give me an example of their sneaky-ness? I can't imagine somebody pulling one over on the DM or players and nobody noticing what they're trying to do.

A classic is the guy who keeps losing his character sheet. "Oh, i remember it, I'll just rewrite it." They always "remember" the stats as being slightly higher than they were. The good ones are subtle, only changeing a single stat and only by one point. But when this happens a couple of times ... The old boiling the frog slowly trick if you will.

Die roll cheats are another common Munchkin tactic.

And, twisting the interpitation of the rules to favor them or not disfavor them. Also in that line is combining the features of two unreated books to produce a monster that should never be. Oh both books will be offical "whatever" product. But not writen to work well together.

Mulsiphix
01-20-2008, 10:48 PM
That is just sad. Back when I was in many different gaming circles you would come across somebody who would use any cheat code they could so they could beat a game with the least amount of trouble. What was disgusting is not only did they do this in front of gamers that worked hard for their accomplishments, they boasted and were proud to boot. Just thinking about it makes me feel dirty :(

Dravion
01-21-2008, 06:34 AM
Sounds like your brother was either a real gaming addict or didn't like what he saw when he picked up that box set. Why didn't he want you playing?


He wasn't a gaming addict. He just like to use his imagination. And the reason why he didn't want me to play at the start was I was only a few years old. And he wanted to make sure I could understand simple math and was able to learn how to control my temper. Being that I was born in 1981 and didn't start playing until about 1987, it's not that odd of a request. Now me on the other hand, I am a gaming addict. Although it took me close to 8 years to find a game that I'm starting to get my character adapted to. To bad I had to learn a new rule set to it. Around where I live if you mention 2nd or even 1st edition....you are seen as an outcast and the only people that play it are at least 10 years your senior.

Mulsiphix
01-21-2008, 06:43 AM
Nothing wrong with playing with people that are older than you. I've considered taking a road trip many times just to meet some of the fine folks on this website. Most of which are anywhere from 10 to 25 years my senior. Glad to hear your addicted though. Addicts like keep the pen and paper corporate and indie trains a chuggin :cool:

upidstay
01-21-2008, 06:56 AM
I've played with guys who still have the original pamphlets Gygax published. Also played with kids who were younger than my dice. Age and experience mean nothing. Learned a thing or two from people playing for only a few months.

gdmcbride
01-21-2008, 07:24 AM
I've played with guys who still have the original pamphlets Gygax published. Also played with kids who were younger than my dice. Age and experience mean nothing. Learned a thing or two from people playing for only a few months.

One hundred percent total complete agreement. New gamers can definitely learn something from veterans. But never forget, new gamers can often teach you a thing or two about how to keep your game fresh and vibrant.

The kids are alright.

Gary

Maelstrom
01-21-2008, 07:33 AM
Can you give me an example of their sneaky-ness? I can't imagine somebody pulling one over on the DM or players and nobody noticing what they're trying to do.

Another Munchkinism... fighting tooth and nail when their character might actually be hurt.

I've got a player that likes to play spellcasters and such, pretty fragile, but he manages to keep the PC out of the fray a lot of the time. He always makes sure to keep a 20+ AC with spells, so even if he does get caught in melee its rare he gets hit.

But when it actually comes down where he might actually take damage *gasp* he always has some rule up his sleeve he attempts to use to avoid the damage.

For example, he was playing a halfling riding a war dog, and once when he was about to hit, he decided he was going to use his war dog as cover (one of the rules available for the ride skill). Of course this was after the attack was rolled, and it wasn't his turn, so I didn't allow him, but man he fought that hard.

Mulsiphix
01-21-2008, 09:16 AM
For example, he was playing a halfling riding a war dog, and once when he was about to hit, he decided he was going to use his war dog as cover (one of the rules available for the ride skill). Of course this was after the attack was rolled, and it wasn't his turn, so I didn't allow him, but man he fought that hard.When it comes to being crafty with rules, when does a player stop being a knowledgeable rules lawyer and cross the line into being a munchkin? Is it the fact that they argue with the DM once they have made their verdict or is there more to it?

Maelstrom
01-21-2008, 09:41 AM
Generally when they annoy the DM or other players. Some have a tendancy to tell the other players what to do, and that can be annoying to them if they aren't looking for advice. Also, if they slow down the game by wanting things to be exactly according to the rules rather than allowing some fudging here and there to keep things going.

Rules lawyers can be very helpful if they are allies though, and have the idea that they want to help the DM and other players. They can be a great resource, once their munchkin tendancies are removed.

Mulsiphix
01-21-2008, 10:02 AM
They can be a great resource, once their munchkin tendancies are removed.Maybe somebody could setup a De-Munchkining clinic? Channel the rule lawyers powers for good instead of evil! :p

rabkala
01-21-2008, 10:20 AM
Munchkins and rules lawyers generally cross the line when they start looking for; loop holes to use, ambiguous writing to exploit, intentional DM judgment call areas to take advantage of, setting/rules hindrances that can be twisted into positives, unintentional rules breakdowns/ gray areas to abuse, imposing real life science and logic to try to break rules/settings, using knowledge only for their own benefit, withholding/clouding relevant information to get the upper hand, etc.

I tend to run high magic and high power games which lend itself to power gamers. Rules lawyers and munchkins flock toward them and are a common problem. There are munchkins everywhere, even with old-timers.

Aleolus
01-21-2008, 11:27 AM
After trying other systems is D&D your most favorite?

Well, it's the one I know the best, so it's the one I prefer using. I'm open to learning other systems, I just don't have much knowledge of them atm. A friend of mine is wanting to get me into the Palladium system.

Mulsiphix
01-21-2008, 11:39 AM
A friend of mine is wanting to get me into the Palladium system.Does he have a specific game system in mind?

Dravion
01-21-2008, 05:29 PM
well I have nothing against gaming with people older then me. I like to learn new tricks in the game that they might know. But playing with younger players sometimes irks me cause they ask questions that most people if you've played the game long enough should know. I remember I was in this jump in game at a local game/hobby shop and the kid asked what die you rolled for attack. I nearly smacked him....good thing the table seperated us, and the dm told me if I touched the kid I'd go to jail. the kid claimed he had played for like 3 years.
but anyways...if you are ever around Detroit Michigan....hit me up with a message and I'll try to get a jump in group together.

tesral
01-21-2008, 06:54 PM
If you are ever around Detroit Michigan....hit me up with a message and I'll try to get a jump in group together.

I'm seven miles from you and looking for a player. No, smacking the kid is a bad idea.

Clue resistant is another Munchkin defense. They never seem to learn the rules that apply to them, when the rule is not their friend.

Something to remember there is no clear cut line you can draw and say "Munchkin -- Nonmunchkin". Every power gamer is not a bad one. Every rules lawyer is not annoying. Frankly, having someone at the table with a head for the rules is a good thing. Having an anal retentive at the table with a head for the rules is not.

Don't judge anyone by a single session, or even three. Some people take time to come out of their shells. Like most bad apples they are rare. Everyone talks about them because they leave a lasting impression when they do show up. In 32 years I have encountered, 2-3 honest Munchkins. It's not an epidemic.

underdarkshark
01-21-2008, 07:30 PM
i was given the basic set sometime early 70's i got seriously into the game in the early 80's. Been playing since.

i don't feel old though:cool:

Aleolus
01-21-2008, 09:18 PM
Does he have a specific game system in mind?

Hero's Unlimited, I believe it is.

Nord_drache
01-21-2008, 11:01 PM
In May I will have been gaming for 30 years.:D 1st edition AD&D and gravitated to DMing PDQ . . .
Over the years I've played many games -
AD&D 1st (remember the Bard?!), 2nd Ed, and lately D&D 3.5
Gamma world 1st & 2nd edition
Top Secret
Iron Crown Enterprises ( a favourite of a friend, don't mind it occasionally)
Palladium RPG 1st & 2nd Ed, Rift (when it first came out), Beyond the Supernatural, Heroes Unlinited, Ninja's and Superspies - these 2 a limited amount.
Warhammer RPG . . .


Munchinism is not related to D&D only. It is a term that can be used in any RPG.
Exalted is commonly referred to as a munchkin RPG.
A munchkin is a power-gamer who plays aggressively and to win all the marbles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchkin_(role-playing_games)
. . .
This is a term I haven't heard ?!?!
I take it Munchkins roll-play opposed to role-play?
Though I am familar with Monty Hauls.
I guess munchkins can graduate to GM status, eh?
I've met a few
- who had to win as GMs,
-those who had campaigns set in concrete (one dumb mistake and the campaign was over because the plot line got derailed_oops those might be the anal retentives),
-then there are those who say a new set of rules is perfect but still ridiculously tweek them or ignore core ideas
- or there are those who torpedo shared worlds because they think they can or its there right (makes you have second thoughts about a group with several GM's and you all want to develope a shared continous world so you can achieve the higher levels and have variety).

Oops, sorry to those not wanting to share in my rant, but as always and as in life it only takes a couple of ignorant egomaniacs to take the fun out of the game?

Mulsiphix
01-22-2008, 12:36 AM
IOops, sorry to those not wanting to share in my rant, but as always and as in life it only takes a couple of ignorant egomaniacs to take the fun out of the game?I quite enjoyed your rant :cool:

tesral
01-22-2008, 11:10 AM
Oops, sorry to those not wanting to share in my rant, but as always and as in life it only takes a couple of ignorant egomaniacs to take the fun out of the game?

I've seen them. The "Slug" GM whose setting and villains are way too cool for any PC to actually defeat. People that suck the fun out of the game.

The GM controls everything. It is too easy to "win" as GM, it is meaningless. Any time some GM brags how many PCs they have killed I loose interest at once. "The meteor falls from the sky and smacks you! Save fort DC 56 and take 120d6 damage." Like I said, easy. Good GM facilitate the fun, not hog it.

DrAwkward
01-22-2008, 01:05 PM
Something to remember there is no clear cut line you can draw and say "Munchkin -- Nonmunchkin". Every power gamer is not a bad one. Every rules lawyer is not annoying.

I'd like to think I fall into that category. "non-munchkin powergamer" Generally when I play a game, I'll try to manipulate the rules to man-max my character in (what I think) are cool ways. These characters are generally the ones I most enjoy roleplaying, ironically.

I think what makes me not a munchkin is that I warn the GM when I'm planning a cheesy combo. Before I even introduce the character to the game, I'll lay out the entire roadmap to the GM. I tell him what the big combo is, what level I think it pays off, and about how it should work out for me. Usually they go "holy crap - no way" and I make a different character. Sometimes they let it happen, if that's the sort of game they had in mind.

I also am a rules lawyer, meaning the 3.5 are ingrained in my brain. If a DM goes against the rules, I'll mention the rule, *once*, but more just to clarify if this is a house rule, or a special case in this instance. If they think that they are going by the rules, I'll talk it over with them after the game. A GM saying "these are MY rules" are cool with me. When he says "these are THE rules" I gotta break out the books (but not during the session -- thats just rude)

I try really hard not to make tactical decisions for other player's characters. Had a few sessions with a real Lawyer who wanted to play my character for me, and then made snippy comments throughout the rest of the session when I made my own decisions. I don't want to be that guy. If I get the impression that a guy is doing silly stuff because he doesn't know his options, I'll give him a list of choices and then try to guage if my advice is unwelome.

Mulsiphix
01-22-2008, 01:05 PM
Good GM facilitate the fun, not hog it.Somebody put that on a T-Shirt, bumper sticker, hats, coffee mugs, and any other merchandise where a quality quote can push even the most basic of products. You sir are a gem ;)

cplmac
01-22-2008, 01:15 PM
I guess that I would be considered more of a newbie, since I've only been at it since January 1991. It was when I was with the Marines in the Persian Gulf. Had never played anything like it before. We were doing the "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth." We had all 8 characters from the module. By the time we finished, only two characters made it out alive. Have only played AD&D 2nd Edition. Have not got to play much lately though.

Maelstrom
01-22-2008, 01:59 PM
If I get the impression that a guy is doing silly stuff because he doesn't know his options, I'll give him a list of choices and then try to guage if my advice is unwelome.

When other players see that someone has a good knowledge of the rules and has a mind for building nice combinations, and also that person is approachable, they will come for advice.

They have a favorite style of character they'd like to play? Why search for a good combination through oodles of books when you have a walking encyclopedia in your play group?

Bravo! Rules lawyers/power gamers in this category are the kind that add to the game.

Mulsiphix
01-22-2008, 05:31 PM
The problem with rules lawyers is that they can be very cool and help expand a games depth, but they can be equally constraining as the defining characteristic of a rules lawyer is that they are Lawfully aligned to them. Sooner or later all rules lawyers get anal.

tesral
01-22-2008, 05:49 PM
I guess that I would be considered more of a newbie, since I've only been at it since January 1991. It was when I was with the Marines in the Persian Gulf. Had never played anything like it before. We were doing the "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth." We had all 8 characters from the module. By the time we finished, only two characters made it out alive. Have only played AD&D 2nd Edition. Have not got to play much lately though.

That's an oldie. Doubtless the DM had to scape the mold off first. (Yes, i have a copy too).

tesral
01-22-2008, 05:50 PM
Somebody put that on a T-Shirt, bumper sticker, hats, coffee mugs, and any other merchandise where a quality quote can push even the most basic of products. You sir are a gem ;)

Keep this up and I'll need a new hat. A creepy new hat.



The problem with rules lawyers is that they can be very cool and help expand a games depth, but they can be equally constraining as the defining characteristic of a rules lawyer is that they are Lawfully aligned to them. Sooner or later all rules lawyers get anal.

A lawyer is someone that tries to twist the law to his favor or the favor of his client. In that respect Rules Lawyers are trying to metagame success for their client, the character.

However someone with a encyclopedic grasp of the rules and a flexible mind is a good thing to have at the table.

If there is a rule dispute I generally try to come down on the side of the PC. If I blew a call, hey, I admit it, I'll even mulligan if it was important. I'm Human not some god of gaming. I'm there to have fun, not beat up the game or the PCs. I'll make you scream, cry, and sweat, but if you are attentive and intelligent your character will get out in one piece.

Dravion
01-22-2008, 05:55 PM
I still like the shirt I saw at a convention a few years back. A picture of Buddy Christ holding a d20 saying "Jesus saves, the rest of you take full damage"

tesral
01-22-2008, 06:01 PM
I still like the shirt I saw at a convention a few years back. A picture of Buddy Christ holding a d20 saying "Jesus saves, the rest of you take full damage"

Snerk!!! :eek::D:eek:

Mulsiphix
01-22-2008, 07:05 PM
I still like the shirt I saw at a convention a few years back. A picture of Buddy Christ holding a d20 saying "Jesus saves, the rest of you take full damage"That is a classic :p

tesral
01-22-2008, 08:35 PM
Cthulhu Saves: in case he gets hungry later.

Dravion
01-22-2008, 09:10 PM
Cthulhu Saves: in case he gets hungry later.


that's another good one...lol

pedro2112
02-23-2008, 01:27 AM
Same here. I actually started with Avalon Hill wargames a few years before then, like 3 or so, but that's not role-playing!:D

First Game Played: Panzerleader

Skunkape
02-23-2008, 11:38 AM
First Game Played: Panzerleader

Yeah played that one too!:D

Aleolus
02-23-2008, 01:19 PM
Never heard of it, care to give a description?

tesral
02-24-2008, 10:11 PM
First Game Played: Panzerleader

Well first war game in any case. I also got heavily into Seapower II, and a number of others as well. Ogre is a favorite, simple but fun.

upidstay
02-25-2008, 06:57 AM
OGRE? The one with the huge behemoth tank being attacked by hordes of little tanks?? GREAT game

kitsune1842
02-25-2008, 07:39 AM
As Hank McCoy might say, Oh my Stars and Garters. I just had to comment because this thread makes me feel so young. My first real RPG was Vampire the Requium, and my introduction to DND was after 3.0, just a short time before 3.5 came out.

I admit, THAC0 is a beast I hear of only in rumor and legend, thus I kneal before my gathered gaming forebearers and pay homage to those that have gome before.

Nord_drache
02-25-2008, 09:20 AM
. . .I admit, THAC0 is a beast I hear of only in rumor and legend, thus I kneal before my gathered gaming forebearers and pay homage to those that have gome before.

I hate to scare you but that beast is still alive and well. Every other Saturday night I game 2nd Edition with a good friend and his kids. Since we have the material and we know the system so well it was the easiest system to teach. Ya and these 13 to 15 year olds get it.
In a month or so I'll introduce them to another system - Palladium and if the gaming lasts long enogh other systems will be taught.

tesral
02-25-2008, 01:30 PM
OGRE? The one with the huge behemoth tank being attacked by hordes of little tanks?? GREAT game

Yep, that game. I even have minis for it. Last year and U-con i pulled it out for the first time in a while. After my Mark V got done making scrap metal out of a bunch of missile tanks I had to say. "I completely forgot how deadly this game is."

Well as Dave Winfield said. "Lead soldiers don't bleed."

I also have a bunch of Ral Parth Ogres of the more D&D kind. I need to pull those guys out and rebase them for D&D mini style combat, including the big Hill giant in the set.



I hate to scare you but that beast is still alive and well. Every other Saturday night I game 2nd Edition with a good friend and his kids. Since we have the material and we know the system so well it was the easiest system to teach. Ya and these 13 to 15 year olds get it.
In a month or so I'll introduce them to another system - Palladium and if the gaming lasts long enogh other systems will be taught.

You can play it. I never was 100% comfortable with thac0, and I used it for years. If I was playing pure 2e I think I would ditch thac0 in favor of BAB. It's not a big change. Fact is I have all the positive ACs penciled into my Monstrous Compendium.

blackmote
02-25-2008, 07:41 PM
My experience with the Dungeons & Dragons game system started in early 1983 with the old basic D&D boxed set. A high school friend had received it for Christmas ('82) after we witnessed some friends chatting about it in the library. So my bud and I started our gaming history with another friend and a cousin of mine using a home-spun generic setting. By the end of that first game, I was ready to try my hand at DM'ing, even though I didn't know the difference between a Hit Die and a Hit Point! LOL. I have many, many AD&D stories to tell. Someday I'll start a book sharing tales from that time in my life. ;)

2008 will hopefully mark my return to the AD&D games after a 5 year or more lull. I hope to kick this off using the Castles & Crusades system. I also look forward to painting miniatures for the game again. I haven't done any serious work in more than 7 years. It's a demanding, tedious, frustrating, but relaxing and rewarding hobby.

:)

~Hoyt.

Inquisitor Tremayne
03-04-2008, 02:12 PM
I never started PLAYING RPGs as much as I began COLLECTING RPGs. My collection began with a friend of mine giving me his collection of early 2nd edition Dragonlance and core books. I was only familiar with D&D from knowing the name of the cartoon but I had always loved anything to do with fantasy, swords and knights and all that and played any NES fantasy RPGs they made, namely Dragon Warrior!

That was 1992 or 1993 when I got those books.

From there I began collecting and reading almost anything related and there were several failed attempts at trying to get my friends to play.

I didn't actually join my first "real" group until 1997, which was 3.0 at that time, and we played for 5 years until everyone started to move away.

I joined another group in 2005 and we have been playing ever since.

Good times indeed!

cplmac
03-04-2008, 02:27 PM
As Hank McCoy might say, Oh my Stars and Garters. I just had to comment because this thread makes me feel so young. My first real RPG was Vampire the Requium, and my introduction to DND was after 3.0, just a short time before 3.5 came out.

I admit, THAC0 is a beast I hear of only in rumor and legend, thus I kneal before my gathered gaming forebearers and pay homage to those that have gome before.


I hate to scare you but that beast is still alive and well. Every other Saturday night I game 2nd Edition with a good friend and his kids. Since we have the material and we know the system so well it was the easiest system to teach. Ya and these 13 to 15 year olds get it.
In a month or so I'll introduce them to another system - Palladium and if the gaming lasts long enogh other systems will be taught.

For an interesting discussion, check out the post about why people liked to not have to deal with thac0. Yes, it was started by myself, but I found a lot of knowledge in the responses to it. And yes, I have no problem with using thac0, and respect the fact that there are others that do not like it.

nijineko
03-09-2008, 05:25 AM
heh, yeah, i'm one of the not quite there ones. ^^ i started playing dnd before thac0, and then i kinda fell out of dnd and into other systems during the whole thac0 phase, so i kinda missed it for the most part, except for a few games. then i wandered back into dnd around 3.0 ^^

Lev Lafayette
03-10-2008, 06:35 AM
Hmmm.. Probably time to delurk properly.

First participated in a couple of sessions of RuneQuest game in the school library in 1981, although I didn't know it was RuneQuest at the time. At the end of the year picked up the Moldvay Dungeons & Dragons Expert set with the cool Erol Otus artwork, erroneously thinking I was an expert at roleplaying (ha!). Realised my mistake and purchased the Basic set a day later.

Found some other gamers in the local neighbourhood, played a fair bit of D&D and AD&D with them, some Traveller, Swordbearer and a little more of RuneQuest (oh! so that's what I was playing at school!). After that went the way of Rolemaster (1st edition!), more AD&D, DragonQuest, Palladium, some MERP, Star Trek, and then into university where I started a gaming and sf club.

From there it was an epic Rolemaster game which eventually led to publication of one of their companions. Also played an enormous amount of Spacemaster, Champions and Fantasy Hero, GURPS (with uncredited, but recognised, playtesting of GURPS Cyberpunk) and more than a little bit of Warhammer and Justice Inc (one of the funniest campaigns I've ever played in) along with a little bit of RuneQuest (wow, third edition now), Stormbringer, Call of Cthulhu, Pirates & Plunder, Hunter Planet, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk 1st ed, Cyberspace (tres cool) and this new kid on the block, Vampire.

Post-graduation I moved city and got involved in a World of Darkness meta-game where I mainly played the role of a Mage, although there were Vamps, Wolves and Wraiths hanging around as well. Went back to my roots with some more
AD&D, GURPS, RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu.

More recently have played HeroQuest, Hero Wars, RuneQuest, Little Fears, Everyway, Over The Edge, MegaTraveller, Traveller TNE, d20 Modern, D&D 3.x, Dogs in the Vineyard, Ars Magica, In Nomine, Nephilim, Call of Cthulhu, a Cyberpunk/Paranoia crossover, and Legend of the Five Rings along with playtesting for Mongoose's RuneQuest and Chaosium's Deluxe Basic Role Playing.

I'm sure I've missed a few as well.

Currently playing a small mountain of games... but want to play Swordbearer again...

boulet
03-10-2008, 07:06 AM
Nephilim
Wow ! I didn't hear about this game in a long time. I can't say I have an extensive experience with this RPG but I enjoyed the few sessions I played. In a way the whole mythos and background of the game is there to justify why players can play at different period in history. But the result is a very documented and esoteric style of game that I found very innovative. It's another French game btw...

Yes I have to be annoying and point every French games that are mentionned on the forum. It's my mission :)

tesral
03-10-2008, 09:17 AM
heh, yeah, i'm one of the not quite there ones. ^^ i started playing dnd before thac0, and then i kinda fell out of dnd and into other systems during the whole thac0 phase, so i kinda missed it for the most part, except for a few games. then i wandered back into dnd around 3.0 ^^

I would say you missed thac0, but you didn't miss out on it. Ir retrospect it was not an improvment on the to hit charts.

Lev Lafayette
03-11-2008, 03:21 AM
Wow ! I didn't hear about this game in a long time. I can't say I have an extensive experience with this RPG but I enjoyed the few sessions I played. In a way the whole mythos and background of the game is there to justify why players can play at different period in history. But the result is a very documented and esoteric style of game that I found very innovative. It's another French game btw...

Yes I have to be annoying and point every French games that are mentionned on the forum. It's my mission :)

I wish I could say I thought it was a good game. It contains a number of great concepts, but the implementation is terrible - to the point that I'm prepared to say this is the worst game Chaosium ever released. This is mostly due to the lengthy character generation process, usually requiring several past lives, and the ridiculous starting age of the current Simulacrum (3d6*5 years). Then there was the keeping track of astrological data for the relative efficacy of the each character's magical abilities.

I say all this having two copies of the core rulebook, a copy of the GM screen, a copy of the Gamemaster's Companion, the Chronicle of Awakenings, Serpent Moon and two Character Dossiers...

As I said, nice concepts but in order to be enjoyed it requires a lot of houseruling.

upidstay
03-11-2008, 06:10 AM
The last Con I went to, played with a couple of guys. We got to talking, age came up, and I realized that the d20 I was using was almost twice as old as they were!!!!!!!!!!!! Was part of my original sets from the Basic and Expert Sets I bought in 1979. The two guys wer 17 and 18 respectively.

tesral
03-11-2008, 02:42 PM
The last Con I went to, played with a couple of guys. We got to talking, age came up, and I realized that the d20 I was using was almost twice as old as they were!!!!!!!!!!!! Was part of my original sets from the Basic and Expert Sets I bought in 1979. The two guys wer 17 and 18 respectively.

Hence "I got dice older than you are." I don't. I'm an admitted dice whore. I get dice if they are pretty or cool and have way too many dice. I change out my dice a lot.

However, I have character sheets that are older than they are.

My current Friday DM is 20. Nice guy, does a decent job. Sometimes I scare him with 32 years in the game. I work not doing that just as hard as I can.

upidstay
03-12-2008, 06:14 AM
First Con I ever went to, my event was cancelled because the DM didn't show up. There were 7 of us waiting for the event, so they said they'd find us a DM. The man in charge said we were getting "Almost D+D royalty" as a DM. Apparently, the DM knew Gygax and Arneson from college, and helped play test the original system. I was talking crap to the younger guys, saying I'd been playing for this many years, and I even had a set of the original pamphlets.The DM looked at me and smiles, said he had "handwritten notes". Shut me right up.

tesral
03-12-2008, 07:17 AM
I was talking crap to the younger guys, saying I'd been playing for this many years, and I even had a set of the original pamphlets.The DM looked at me and smiles, said he had "handwritten notes". Shut me right up.

Hey someone had to start. However it can be difficult for a young GM to deal with an old Grognard that has been playing longer than he has been on this Earth. I do my best not to be difficult.

Second thing I note playing with younger people, the knowledge gap. I have 50 years of packed living and learning. I just know more about more. I've read more books done more things then they naturally have had a chance to do. Mike has said he finds it stunning the depth of stuff I can come up with. Honest, I'm not going to preen about myself,. Any 50 years old guy that hasn't spent his life drinking beer in a wife-beater and watching sports should know as much. And even that guy should know a lot about sports, and beer.

Playing with younger people is an education.

cplmac
03-12-2008, 12:07 PM
Yes, I have found that sometimes the younger players come up with ideas that you may have never considered. Doesn't necessarily have to just be younger players, can also be someone of an older age that is just starting to game themselves.

tesral
03-12-2008, 12:13 PM
Yes, I have found that sometimes the younger players come up with ideas that you may have never considered. Doesn't necessarily have to just be younger players, can also be someone of an older age that is just starting to game themselves.

This is true of people period. More heads making for more ideas. Heck, I get some of my best ideas listening to what the players think is ahead. About half the time I'll change the encounter to reflect their expectations because it's more creative and meaner than what I had in the first place.

Inquisitor Tremayne
03-12-2008, 12:48 PM
This is true of people period. More heads making for more ideas. Heck, I get some of my best ideas listening to what the players think is ahead. About half the time I'll change the encounter to reflect their expectations because it's more creative and meaner than what I had in the first place.

This is sooo true!

I don't know why my players think I would be so mean with the stuff THEY come up with!

Skunkape
03-13-2008, 10:28 AM
This is sooo true!

I don't know why my players think I would be so mean with the stuff THEY come up with!

Good to see I'm not the only one with players who say their DM is mean! Actually, mine say I'm evil, but I'm really only giving them what they want!:D

Kilrex
03-13-2008, 10:52 AM
Good to see I'm not the only one with players who say their DM is mean! Actually, mine say I'm evil, but I'm really only giving them what they want!:D

I once bought all the Grimtooth's Trap books and had them sitting on the table with post-it bookmarks. The session was starting and the group was about to enter the dungeon below the gnome fortress. One of the players read the cover and told me his character had second thoughts. He pointed out the book cover to the rest of the group. On the spot they decided someone else would DM and we should start a new campaign.

tesral
03-13-2008, 12:37 PM
I once bought all the Grimtooth's Trap books and had them sitting on the table with post-it bookmarks. The session was starting and the group was about to enter the dungeon below the gnome fortress. One of the players read the cover and told me his character had second thoughts. He pointed out the book cover to the rest of the group. On the spot they decided someone else would DM and we should start a new campaign.

I always found Grimtooth over the top myself. I use few traps. The PCs are always careful to look for them, but I don't use many.

The basic problem with traps is who normally travels that way? The trap has to take that into consideration. Grimtooth seldom does. Death traps with no way around them are only good for false paths.

Some of my best traps depend on sneaky behavior to work.

Inquisitor Tremayne
03-13-2008, 02:45 PM
I once bought all the Grimtooth's Trap books and had them sitting on the table with post-it bookmarks. The session was starting and the group was about to enter the dungeon below the gnome fortress. One of the players read the cover and told me his character had second thoughts. He pointed out the book cover to the rest of the group. On the spot they decided someone else would DM and we should start a new campaign.

Geeze! Meta-game much!?

I would pick up various books just to throw them off as well as roll dice randomly and what-not. Just to keep them guessing.

Damn players! Who do they think they are!?

:DI do the same thing as a player though!

Nord_drache
03-13-2008, 04:04 PM
Geeze! Meta-game much!?

I would pick up various books just to throw them off as well as roll dice randomly and what-not. Just to keep them guessing.

Damn players! Who do they think they are!?

:DI do the same thing as a player though!

Isn't one of the best traps, messing with the players' heads?:D
Nothing like rolling some dice, nothing happens and later without dice rolls - all hell breaks loose.

Kilrex
03-13-2008, 04:48 PM
Isn't one of the best traps, messing with the players' heads?:D
Nothing like rolling some dice, nothing happens and later without dice rolls - all hell breaks loose.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!


I usually make the listen, spot, and Elf auto-search checks myself just so chars don't meta game too much.

Inquisitor Tremayne
03-14-2008, 04:40 PM
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!


I usually make the listen, spot, and Elf auto-search checks myself just so chars don't meta game too much.

I am going to start making all reactionary/passive Perception (spot/listen/search) checks.

However, any active perception checks I will allow the PCs to roll.

Wow, we have gotten off topic haven't we!?

amardolem
03-19-2008, 07:41 PM
No, it appears your talking about old evil grognard DMs, meaning yourselves. The question becomes: Is there any other kind? Like young nice pacifist drama major DM's? nah, didn't think so...I have a black marble I call the one sided dice, for use when players get whiny...or the sphere of annihilation

tesral
03-20-2008, 01:11 PM
No, it appears your talking about old evil grognard DMs, meaning yourselves. The question becomes: Is there any other kind? Like young nice pacifist drama major DM's? nah, didn't think so...I have a black marble I call the one sided dice, for use when players get whiny...or the sphere of annihilation

How about the nice old Gorgnard that plays with the group, not agaisnt it? Like me.

Whiny players? Don't have any. I have come to see whiny players as a symptom of bad GMing. :nono:

cplmac
03-20-2008, 01:47 PM
How about the nice old Gorgnard that plays with the group, not agaisnt it? Like me.

Whiny players? Don't have any. I have come to see whiny players as a symptom of bad GMing. :nono:


Another posibility is the people that think they should get everything they want, since that is what they are used to from their childhood upbringing. Just because the child wants it doesn't mean that they actually need it. Symptom of bad parenting. Then again, parenting and Gming could sort of be looked at as the same.

upidstay
03-20-2008, 02:39 PM
Whiny players? I have a big, honkin' d20 I use for whiny players. I think its 55mm, about the size of a small apple. If you throw it right, you cn leave the "20" imprinted on their forehead. Generally ends whining quickly...

ElrikDarkstorm
03-20-2008, 06:29 PM
I started playing around 1988 when i was 10 years old,my first character was a human figher,man i miss those days,the isle of dread,i read it in a message above that was one of the first adventures i have ever done,that was was very fun,ahhh those were the days

amardolem
03-21-2008, 08:10 AM
Some where deep down even young DM's want to be "evil old grognard DM'S" (don't tell me you haven't ever wanted to use force lightning on a player-ala Palpatine "and now, you WILL DIE!") I bought the monster Manual first, not knowing anything about it, then the blue box with Keep on the Borderlands. (Narrowly missing B1-in fact I was dissapointed because all I had found out about the game in that age of noninformation indicated that was the module...and I wanted to go "In Search of the Unknown"

tesral
03-21-2008, 09:29 AM
Another posibility is the people that think they should get everything they want, since that is what they are used to from their childhood upbringing. Just because the child wants it doesn't mean that they actually need it. Symptom of bad parenting. Then again, parenting and Gming could sort of be looked at as the same.

If I have to "parent" players I don't want them. That's the game I run. I'm playing with you. I'm not there to be your daddy. I have an orderly table. We have fun, we enjoy each other company and we don't have inter group "drama". Sometimes we don't get a lot of game in the game, but we're having fun.

boulet
03-21-2008, 10:05 AM
Never felt like in daddy position while running games even with younger players. That would feel awkward.

Oldgamer
03-22-2008, 08:08 AM
I played with a family for a while, we were all in our mid to late 30's except one who was 13. The family consisted of mother-father-uncle-son and myself. The son had never played D&D before, and the other 3 haven't played since the mid 80's and didn't know 3.5 at all...I was learning it myself, but I play countless games online and so I picked up on the rules quickly whereas playing with them was like reinventing the wheel with the rules...they didn't believe me half the time and I had to flip through the pages to prove it. Or you'd get the occasional comment like "Yeah, but he's an elf and automatically gets a chance to Spot the door just by walking by it..." and I have to say, "Wrong edition, elves don't have that ability anymore..." These guys were great role-players though, they loved playing evil characters...evil drow clerics and the like...they just loved being mean :lol:

But the 13 year old son could not sit still, and was constantly rocking in his chair (not a rocking chair, a dining room chair), would thump his hands on the table, day dream, and just wouldn't participate half the time...not to mention he was horrible at math. And then they had a couple of family friends join in...and the uncle had to quit due to time constraints in life...but the new members had a newborn that required constant attention, not to mention they had to bring her and lay her on the table. I don't know how many of you have kids, but a newborn is very grabby and they like to put everything in their mouths...like mini's dice, etc..

So I know the "parenting" at a table, and I wasn't even the parent. We briefly played with a guy that had a few kids that played too, about 13-15...and he DM'd a "Teen game" he called it, his 2 kids and several of their friends...I couldn't imagine DMing a room full of teenagers :rolleyes:

Nord_drache
03-22-2008, 08:56 PM
So I know the "parenting" at a table, and I wasn't even the parent. We briefly played with a guy that had a few kids that played too, about 13-15...and he DM'd a "Teen game" he called it, his 2 kids and several of their friends...I couldn't imagine DMing a room full of teenagers :rolleyes:

For the last couple years I've been gaming with on of my best friends and his 3 kids. They're around 15, and we play 2nd Edition. One kid has asperger's and his sister has some attention issues - I guess i'm more tolerant than most. As my wife put it when I was asked if I wanted to game and DM for this bunch every other Saturday night - (even though I agreed to it already) if the experienced gamers don't teach younger gamers the gaming community will die off from old age.

Next month I get to teach them a new system and a new genre - Palladium sci-fi (Phase world). It should be fun, these kids have even learned some Iron Crown :eek: - talk about complex and math intensive.

All I can say is under the right circumstances it can work and even "adult" groups are wracked by attrition from life stepping up and demanding people's attention.

nijineko
03-23-2008, 01:35 AM
i have dice that are almost older than me... my dad's dice to be specific, you can barely see the numbers anymore. i'd have to re-carve the numbers out of the poly before running the wax crayon over them would do any good.... the d20s are actually d10x2s and all of the corners are so rounded that they just kinda keep on rolling.

i must admit that i'm a firm believer in the idea that anyone can be educated out of most bad habits-so long as they are willing to be taught. and also that a teacher is someone who learns from the students. and the virtues of time spent with children. and the ideal of flexibility in methods and approach.

i wouldn't be who and what i am now without roleplaying, and all the varied peoples of various and sundry backgrounds, ideas, ideals, and attitudes about life the universe and gaming that i've met over the years.

i can honestly say that if i grow up to become one of those wise old men who pester and torment their grandchildren with 'old man says' sayings, in between spoiling them and teaching them cool stuff that would freak the parents out, that i could be happy and peaceful about leaving this life well accomplished. =D oh, and don't forget gaming, of course.

cplmac
03-23-2008, 09:48 AM
Sorry, I didn't mean actually parenting at the game table. I meant the way that particular person's upbringing by their parents. Guess I didn't make that clear.

Fortunately, I have never had to parent at my game table either. I have had one player that was rather gifted at keeping things light hearted though. There would be times that he would say something that had everyone laughing for 5 or 10 minutes at times.

Tony Misfeldt
03-25-2008, 07:16 PM
I started gaming in the summer of 1988 or '89 when I was 14 or 15. I started out with basic D&D. Shortly after we switched to AD&D. Then came 2nd Edition AD&D. I've pretty much stuck with that ever since. I have a few 3rd Edition books, and am willing to play in someone elses 3.X Edition game, but I won't waste my time or money running one. D&D 2.5 is good enough for me. In short I've been playing damn near twenty years now.

tesral
03-26-2008, 08:32 AM
Fortunately, I have never had to parent at my game table either. I have had one player that was rather gifted at keeping things light hearted though. There would be times that he would say something that had everyone laughing for 5 or 10 minutes at times.

I have one player that makes horror impossible. His standard reaction to stress is to giggle. However we love the guy, so I just don't do horror.

Webhead
03-28-2008, 05:30 PM
I have a black marble I call the one sided dice, for use when players get whiny...or the sphere of annihilation

Ah, yes. I've rolled the "d1" a few times in my day. :heh:

Your mention of the sphere of annihilation reminded me of a monster from an old Mystara-setting Monster Compendium called the Black Ball. Boy, if that was ever a nasty thing to unleash on a party. Fortunately for them, I never did (but I was tempted a time or two by an obnoxious player). :decision:

nijineko
03-29-2008, 05:23 AM
I once bought all the Grimtooth's Trap books and had them sitting on the table with post-it bookmarks. The session was starting and the group was about to enter the dungeon below the gnome fortress. One of the players read the cover and told me his character had second thoughts. He pointed out the book cover to the rest of the group. On the spot they decided someone else would DM and we should start a new campaign.

i love grimtooth's stuff. i have twice ran the traps bazaar and the traps dungeon, once in rifts (substituting all the creatures with coalition equivs), and once as a 16th (reference my currently running pbp titled AG16 for details). both times were a riot, and lots of fun. my sense of fairness extended to warning the players that these were insane deathtraps so be on your toes cause i'm not mentioning it again. so everyone played neurotic bizarre characters (rifts) or things they always wanted to try (16th). we had fun.

upidstay
03-29-2008, 09:29 AM
Love Grimtooth's myself. I remembe my frind Randy's thief was invisible, scouting ahead of the party. Came upon a room filled with treasure chests. He decided to not share with the party and loot the chests first. The trap was a metal grid set into the floor that sprang up, pinning him to the ceiling.Oh, and it killed him in the process. Remember, he was invisible, so when the party entered the room they found the metal poles holding the grid up, but no thief. He was smooshed to the ceiling. They located him from the dripping blood...

Oldgamer
03-29-2008, 10:38 AM
:lol: Greed has killed many a thief in D&D :D

rabkala
03-29-2008, 12:56 PM
I love killing greedy players! It seems so just and right.

Oldgamer
03-30-2008, 10:18 AM
I think playing a rogue is more dangerous than playing the front line tank, he's always the scout, and dependent on his skills to elude capture and traps, whereas the tank just needs to keep swinging :) A rogue can also be quite fun to play as the greedy little pick pocket, I enjoy pickpocketing from strangers, they usually end up with some nice gems or coins :D

tesral
03-30-2008, 01:21 PM
I enjoy pickpocketing from strangers, they usually end up with some nice gems or coins :D

I have a Warlock with slight of hand. He reverse pick pockets. He carves toys for children then slips a coin in their pockets when he give them out.

Nord_drache
03-30-2008, 02:03 PM
I love killing greedy players! It seems so just and right.

I guess this is one case where greed can truly be one of the 7 deadly sins, and I guess sloth is when they're too lazy to check for traps :lol:

tesral
03-31-2008, 07:05 AM
I love killing greedy players! It seems so just and right.

Warning people don't join his game without an insurance policy.

Frobozz
03-31-2008, 04:04 PM
LOL, I love some of Grimtooth's "for the wimps" traps... the ones where they are designed to kill/maim everybody ELSE except the person opening the chest/door/etc. :D

You know... those players that scatter to the hallways outside the room or into the corners when the "designated opener" opens the box. I once had the floor of the room collapse into a 20' deep spiked pit except for the pedestal and steps that held the gem the thief just took. A stone pathway from the hallway then extended itself over to the pillar they were standing upon.

Everyone except him and the mage who was standing on the dais either died or got pretty maimed. The funny pary was the insult to injury as the thief thunked a grappling hook into the dead cleric to pull him off the spikes to get to the rod of resurrection in his pack.

cplmac
03-31-2008, 06:16 PM
Warning people don't join his game without an insurance policy.


But still, if the insurance company deems it as suicide for joining his game, they still won't pay on the policy.

b8amack
04-14-2008, 09:10 PM
There was this one game called "Dark Conspiracy" which was a dark future/horror/scifi game. It had your basic "job" setup where you have career options that allow you to gain certain skill sets.
The game had everything from psionic powers, aliens, demons, and big guns that go boom (sorry, I'm watching Evil Dead 2 right now)

The company went under & the game disappeared, but I know a group that updated & played the game for years & finally ended a 11 year campaign 2 yrs ago... worth looking into on Ebay or a convention if you want to try something interesting

Ha ha... I had the novels that went with it, as well!

agoraderek
04-27-2008, 06:06 AM
grimstooth rocks, true.

i started playing in `79, AD&D, and was absolutely hooked, even though my character was snuffed in the second room of my first dungeon (stoopid fire nozzle trap...) i dabbled in top secret, traveller and tmnt for a bit, but kept going back to d&d. i pretty much skipped second edition, preferred shadowrun and the 1st ed campaign i ran (my 1st ed campaing was basically the combat and magic system, i ignored race/class limitations and level limits, thought they were stupid, and i had my own skill type system which wound up being similar to what they did in 3.x, so i liked 3rd edition when it came out, feats and multiclass changes being the only real difference between what i was already doing and what wotc did).

ive had some memorable games, some forgettable games, and one unmitigated disaster (my last game, the dm wanted to run a 3.5 faerun campaign, but didnt know jack about 3.5 (was unaware of what flatfooted meant, for one, which didnt do my rogue much good...) or faerun, so most of the players just mailed it in, then stopped coming over all together - i hosted)

so, after 29 years, i still love the game, and i hope to find another soon.

tesral
04-27-2008, 01:28 PM
so, after 29 years, i still love the game, and i hope to find another soon.

Move closer to me. :laugh:

Malruhn
04-27-2008, 01:37 PM
Ignore the man behind the curtain. Move closer to ME!! ;)

tesral
04-27-2008, 01:44 PM
Ignore the man behind the curtain. Move closer to ME!! ;)

I got here first. Find your own.

Malruhn
04-27-2008, 08:29 PM
Yeah? Well, I'm closer - and we don't have MONTHS and MONTHS of snow in Alabama!!

So THERE, ya big stinky poopy-head!! :lalala::rockon:

agoraderek
04-28-2008, 01:47 AM
hmmm, tough choice, michigan or alabama...

i may lose sleep over this....

upidstay
04-28-2008, 05:21 AM
Remember the old level limits for demi-humans? I always ignored them too. I figured that if an elf lived to 1000 years old, and practiced with a sword the whole time, odds are he'd be pretty frickin good with that thing by his 500th birthday!!

tesral
04-28-2008, 09:35 AM
Winter, a marvelous time to snuggle with your girl (or guy) and play RPG games in the great indoors.

Never mind the fact that in the cold you can always add more clothing. But in the heat you can only take off so much before you hit skin. Skin, that don't come off so easy.

So you can sweat into your shoes in "Bama or keep your cool in Michigan. Not to mention the lowest water bills in the US.

agoraderek
04-28-2008, 04:24 PM
well, texas has pretty low bills in everything else (air conditioning excepted).

i grew up in upstate new york, i do enjoy snow, but i'd have a hard time convincing the significant other to relocate to michigan (or alabama, for that matter) just because i cant find a decent gaming group here...

why are women so difficult sometimes?

Dimthar
04-29-2008, 06:01 AM
i grew up in upstate new york, i do enjoy snow, but i'd have a hard time convincing the significant other to relocate to michigan (or alabama, for that matter) just because i cant find a decent gaming group here...

why are women so difficult sometimes?

Baby Steps ... try Dallas first. Next time there is a Hurricane, use it a an argument for moving.

agoraderek
04-29-2008, 04:58 PM
Baby Steps ... try Dallas first. Next time there is a Hurricane, use it a an argument for moving.

i lived in deep ellum for two years in the mid-90s. dallas is ok, better gamers in the BED and ft. worth though, imo.

my gf's best friend lives in ft. worth, though, so its a thought...

Edit: the gf just came home, said she loves her friend, but likes that she's 250 miles away...

Oldgamer
04-29-2008, 06:34 PM
I just moved to the west Dallas area 3 months ago from central Florida. We had 3 hurricanes one right after the other in 04. Luckily we lived way inland, and we only caught Category 1 and 2 winds and little damage.

But it seems I've moved out of the frying pan and into the fire or vice versa... in the past 2 months I've been under tornado warning 3 times, had hail the size of golf balls, and ice-n-snow. :)

I grew up in Ohio, and did Cold Weather training in the military, as well as spent time in the jungles of the Philippines, the desert of Iraq, and swamps of Florida, so the climate doesn't bother me. It's the damn 'canes and tornado's :)

MooseAlmighty
05-04-2008, 02:50 PM
Hmm a trip down memory lane... Basic set (we never reached the Isle of Dread until the DM finally started us on the beach! Random encounters kept wiping us out on the way) and then on to AD&D when I bought the three books at Toys R Us with birthday money. Those early adventures were awesome - the DM would only describe the creatures we were facing so even goblins were frightening. Played through 2nd, 3.0, 3.5 and wanting to try 4th.

Along the way played some Star Frontiers, Gamma World, James Bond, Runequest, 4 editions of Shadowrun, Star Wars, Paranoia, Superworld, Champions, (really want to try Mutants & Masterminds), Chill, Werewolf, loved Earthdawn, In Nomine. I am surely forgetting a few right now...

Webhead
05-04-2008, 09:05 PM
Those early adventures were awesome - the DM would only describe the creatures we were facing so even goblins were frightening.

Ah, yes. Those were the days. When players traded uneasy glances at the DM's description of a strange, gruesome monster, having no clue what to expect because they'd never encountered one before. Yeah, I miss that too.


...really want to try Mutants & Masterminds...

You should. If you like superheroes or superhero RPGs, then you owe it to yourself to check out M&M. It is a very good supers RPG in general and my personal favorite. 2nd Edition tightened up the game in all the right ways, making it really solid. I'm not a particular fan of d20, but M&M takes what it wants from the d20 system and reinvents the rest to make it emulate supers. No classes, no "levels", no hit points.

Talmek
05-13-2008, 03:37 AM
Wow, I never thought I'd be one of the youngest players...but in a hobby that's actually originated before I was born, I suppose it would be possible.

My start with Dungeons and Dragons came before I was even school-age. My older brother had the red-box set, and at the tender age of 5 I saw that mean old dragon being fought off by some heroic individual. At least I think that's what was on the cover. I digress. From that moment on, I was enthralled with everything Dungeons and Dragons. The only problem was as I grew up, everyone became afraid of it because of it's mind-altering occult-brewing tendencies (or so the sheltered bible-thumping rednecks where I live thought...some of my family included). So it went away for a long time, but the bug of high fantasy was already implanted.

Fast-forward almost twenty years to the release of 3rd edition. I bought it, read and re-read the 3 core rulebooks, but never found anyone to play. I left for Iraq, and when I returned 3.5e had been released. I immediately picked it up, showed a couple of my friends that were in my unit, and began a wonderful journey DM'ing my first campaign. A second tour to Iraq came, and I managed to smuggle my books over so we could play in between patrols.

I left the military, and all my D&D buddies behind. I've since been remarried, have my third daughter inbound and a new home. Reality has been pretty good to me, but yet I cannot break away from the thought of delving back into the world of Eberron...or my homebrew world that I never got to finish.

So that's my story. If you've made it this far thanks for reading. As for me, I'm never going to stop playing.

tesral
05-13-2008, 10:26 AM
So that's my story. If you've made it this far thanks for reading. As for me, I'm never going to stop playing.

Made it I did. I wish you the best of luck in finding more gaming buddies. Gaming is large part of my life. Some may call it a waste of time but I see it as no different than spending all my money on latch hook rugs, gardening, or obsessing over steriod bloated mutants in body armor chasing a funny ball.

It is a worthy pursuit if one is so inclinded.



Enter witty, thought-provoking statement here. Add thought-provoking hilarious comeback here.

cplmac
05-14-2008, 01:19 PM
Fast-forward almost twenty years to the release of 3rd edition. I bought it, read and re-read the 3 core rulebooks, but never found anyone to play. I left for Iraq, and when I returned 3.5e had been released. I immediately picked it up, showed a couple of my friends that were in my unit, and began a wonderful journey DM'ing my first campaign. A second tour to Iraq came, and I managed to smuggle my books over so we could play in between patrols.


I hear ya loud & clear. Was introduced to D&D(2E) while in the Persian Gulf War with the Marines.

Oldgamer
05-15-2008, 07:17 AM
I hear ya loud & clear. Was introduced to D&D(2E) while in the Persian Gulf War with the Marines.


Who were you with? I was in the 1st Gulf War with 3rd Recon Bttn. I started playing in 83' though, not in Iraq.

Cecil
05-20-2008, 09:58 PM
I declare, it's a buncha neophytes around here.

I've been gaming longer than I've been alive. Why, I remember rolling dice while barefoot in three feet of snow. Ended up chasing the dice for three miles before coming back. Uphill both ways. In 110 degree weather!

More seriously, I'm a greybeard without the beard. I started playing D&D off of mimeographed notepaper. Then the white box. I even remember (and still have) the first Dungeonmaster's Kit distributed by TSR. (a map to whoever can tell me the title of the adventure)

tesral
05-20-2008, 10:02 PM
I declare, it's a buncha neophytes around here.

I've been gaming longer than I've been alive. Why, I remember rolling dice while barefoot in three feet of snow. Ended up chasing the dice for three miles before coming back. Uphill both ways. In 110 degree weather!


You had DICE!?!?

Cecil
05-20-2008, 10:25 PM
Well, we had to carve them from the bones of dinosaurs.

tesral
05-20-2008, 11:34 PM
Well, we had to carve them from the bones of dinosaurs.

You had DINOSAUR BONES!?!? I should have been so lucky.

jayphailey
05-21-2008, 12:04 AM
Tesral's dad wouldn't let him use the rocks to carve into dice. They were too new and shiny at the time.

Jay ~Meow!~

StarLady98
05-21-2008, 12:07 AM
Wow. Suddenly I do not feel so old. I started playing in high school with a group of guys I hung out with. Actually I found out later that I was only invited because one of them had a crush on me. Anyway, that was 1994 with DnD 2nd ed. and I've been playing ever since.

I branched out over the years to other games and even tried LARP. I learned how to run a DnD game in 1999. I tried to run a WoD game a few years ago and found out I am lousy at modern time campaigns. Give me bows, arrows, swords, and I can write a great story. Throw guns in there and I just can not do it.

StarLady98
05-21-2008, 12:09 AM
[quote=Cecil;31515]
I've been gaming longer than I've been alive. Why, I remember rolling dice while barefoot in three feet of snow. Ended up chasing the dice for three miles before coming back. Uphill both ways. In 110 degree weather!
quote]

Hey Cecil, I have to ask.... how was it 110 and snow?! Or was your character one killer mage?

Cecil
05-21-2008, 06:40 AM
OK, you found one. What are the other three inconsistencies?

boulet
05-21-2008, 07:00 AM
Was it Colonel Mustard in the Conservatory with the Wrench?

cplmac
05-21-2008, 09:59 AM
Was it Colonel Mustard in the Conservatory with the Wrench?


OK, do I qualify for Old Timer status since I know that this is from the game "Clue?"

jayphailey
05-21-2008, 10:26 AM
OK, do I qualify for Old Timer status since I know that this is from the game "Clue?"


No. You qualify as having once been a child.

Jay ~Meow!~

Oldgamer
05-21-2008, 10:29 AM
Wow. Suddenly I do not feel so old. I started playing in high school with a group of guys I hung out with. Actually I found out later that I was only invited because one of them had a crush on me. Anyway, that was 1994 with DnD 2nd ed. and I've been playing ever since.

I branched out over the years to other games and even tried LARP. I learned how to run a DnD game in 1999. I tried to run a WoD game a few years ago and found out I am lousy at modern time campaigns. Give me bows, arrows, swords, and I can write a great story. Throw guns in there and I just can not do it.


I used to think I had been playing for a long time until I got on these threads and WotC threads... I've been playing 25 years and there are many that have been going for 30+ that I was pleasantly surprised about. :)

cplmac
05-21-2008, 10:47 AM
No. You qualify as having once been a child.

Jay ~Meow!~


Fair enough, but how many children over the last 10 to 15 years even know what this game is? Not to mention Mouse Trap, Trouble, Parchesie, Monopoly (the original) and many more that are too numerous to list.

StarLady98
05-22-2008, 10:36 AM
Fair enough, but how many children over the last 10 to 15 years even know what this game is? Not to mention Mouse Trap, Trouble, Parchesie, Monopoly (the original) and many more that are too numerous to list.

How many people know that Clue was made into a movie? I just had to buy it, again, third time. I finally got it on DVD because I kept wearing out the VHS.

MooseAlmighty
05-22-2008, 06:30 PM
Fair enough, but how many children over the last 10 to 15 years even know what this game is? Not to mention Mouse Trap, Trouble, Parchesie, Monopoly (the original) and many more that are too numerous to list.


Well speaking for my own 8 and 5 year olds... They are enjoy Sorry! Uno, LOVE Mouse Trap, Hungry Hungry Hippos, Candyland

..not quite ready for DnD or Catan :)

I just repurchased the Clue DVD too - I keep giving mine away to hook people. (Clockwise too)

cplmac
05-22-2008, 08:52 PM
How many people know that Clue was made into a movie? I just had to buy it, again, third time. I finally got it on DVD because I kept wearing out the VHS.


Guess we could use the same for kids from the last 5 to 10 years that have no idea what you mean by VHS.

Would having an 8-track player while I was a kid qualify for Old Timer status? Not to mention vinyl LPs and 45's.

boulet
05-22-2008, 09:38 PM
I owned a 78 of the Shadows ! I even had a turntable that could play 78 rpm :D

agoraderek
05-22-2008, 10:08 PM
Guess we could use the same for kids from the last 5 to 10 years that have no idea what you mean by VHS.

Would having an 8-track player while I was a kid qualify for Old Timer status? Not to mention vinyl LPs and 45's.

yeah, i think so, my first car what a cutlass supreme, 77, that had an eight track, and the guy who sold it to me even threw in his tape collection (lots of zep and BOC).

i think if you played before the advent of widespread personal computers, and definitely before the bbs, usenet and internet , you can definitely call yourself an old timer... :laugh:

tesral
05-22-2008, 10:33 PM
yeah, i think so, my first car what a cutlass supreme, 77, that had an eight track, and the guy who sold it to me even threw in his tape collection (lots of zep and BOC).

i think if you played before the advent of widespread personal computers, and definitely before the bbs, usenet and internet , you can definitely call yourself an old timer... :laugh:

1963 Dodge Custom 880. Great car, when gas was 50 cents a gallon. Family car, you could raise a family in it. Wonderful for moving your entire clan around town.

I wrote on legal pads before the personal computer was invented and then came within reach of working poor income. I still have a few gaming bits printed out from the old C-64.

Oldgamer
05-23-2008, 07:20 AM
Well speaking for my own 8 and 5 year olds... They are enjoy Sorry! Uno, LOVE Mouse Trap, Hungry Hungry Hippos, Candyland

..not quite ready for DnD or Catan :)

I just repurchased the Clue DVD too - I keep giving mine away to hook people. (Clockwise too)

I had all of those games too, plus Operation, Trouble, Risk, The game of Life, and Chutes-n-Ladders :D I also had the Storm Trooper costume for Halloween that consisted of a plastic bag-type thing to wear over the body that was painted to look like a storm trooper, and the big plastic white mask :D I had the original GI Joe (the 12" character that came in an ammo box) all the Star Wars action figures, The 6 Million Dollar Man with his Bionic Eye to look through and thr giant black hard plastic Alien from the movie Alien that you could operate the mouth action by a trigger in the back of its head :laugh: And the lovable Atari 1300... ahhh the good ol' days.

I watched Clue when it came out, thought it was pretty funny (I'm a Tim Curry fan), but don't own the movie.


My first games were played on loose leaf paper and pencil and I used to make my own character sheets after I had seen one of the ones you could buy. I was graphically minded then as well it seemed, I took a ruler and pencil and drew in the boxes for Hp's and AC and the Stats, and then big boxed out areas for equipment, weapons, armor, etc. I was making a spread sheet before there were spreadsheets :P Then I would give them to my mom who would make copies of the blanks for me at work.

This all back when it seemed like everything was made from macrame, my mother had macrame hanging flower pots and pot holders (burned right through) and so many things in the 70's and 80's.

tesral
05-23-2008, 09:49 AM
My first games were played on loose leaf paper and pencil and I used to make my own character sheets after I had seen one of the ones you could buy. I was graphically minded then as well it seemed, I took a ruler and pencil and drew in the boxes for Hp's and AC and the Stats, and then big boxed out areas for equipment, weapons, armor, etc. I was making a spread sheet before there were spreadsheets :P Then I would give them to my mom who would make copies of the blanks for me at work.


I bought the character sheets for a while. When TSR discontinued my favorite, also being graphically minded I got out the press type and technical pens and created the sheet we used for 15 years. I still have those masters, abet a bit long of tooth and I think the rubber cement has discolored.

The second sheet (http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/fantasy/fantpdf/Record_2.pdf) was done on my computer. Amiga 1200 to be exact. Third Generation (http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/fantasy/fantpdf/Record_3.pdf) sheet on its replacment the Amiga 4000. I'm working on the fourth generation now. A four page bi-fold deal still in developlment.

Skunkape
05-23-2008, 11:03 AM
I still have a functioning Dark Tower game! Anyone remember that? We played that game non-stop when it first came out!

MooseAlmighty
05-23-2008, 12:08 PM
I still have a functioning Dark Tower game! Anyone remember that? We played that game non-stop when it first came out!

Loved that game! I am still tempted from time to time to find Dark Tower and Which Witch on ebay...

Oldgamer
05-24-2008, 11:15 AM
I bought the character sheets for a while. When TSR discontinued my favorite, also being graphically minded I got out the press type and technical pens and created the sheet we used for 15 years. I still have those masters, abet a bit long of tooth and I think the rubber cement has discolored.

The second sheet (http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/fantasy/fantpdf/Record_2.pdf) was done on my computer. Amiga 1200 to be exact. Third Generation (http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/fantasy/fantpdf/Record_3.pdf) sheet on its replacment the Amiga 4000. I'm working on the fourth generation now. A four page bi-fold deal still in developlment.

Nice sheets, I didn't have a computer for many years to try my hand at them. But those looked perfect for the game :)

cplmac
05-24-2008, 06:01 PM
Tesral, I'm curious to see the final product of your fourth generation sheet. It might be something that I might want to get permission from you to use.

tesral
05-24-2008, 06:51 PM
Tesral, I'm curious to see the final product of your fourth generation sheet. It might be something that I might want to get permission from you to use.

Once finished it will be a PDF on my site as well. I'll let you know.

mrken
05-25-2008, 11:35 AM
This thread has been purposely ignored by me, until today. For some reason I find it somewhat amusing to read about how old some are that are talking about things they think of as old that I remember being the latest technologies. 8-track tapes? That invention was to bring the open reel tape format to more people, and for the really cool and hip young people, for their cars. That was a real eye opener for my parents, “What’s wrong with the AM radio? It’s built right into the car?” And if that wasn’t cool enough I had to put a CB radio next to it. I remember this girl I was dating remark how cool I was because of it. I was stunned by her remark but happy with the results.

Anyone know what a huntin’ car is?

StarLady98
05-25-2008, 12:47 PM
Guess we could use the same for kids from the last 5 to 10 years that have no idea what you mean by VHS.

Would having an 8-track player while I was a kid qualify for Old Timer status? Not to mention vinyl LPs and 45's.

How about I still own a working 8-track player with tapes and have about 200 records, both 33s and 45s. I also still have 2 working Atari systems with about 150 games. I think I'll apply have a Smithsonion Museum of Technology in my living room....

agoraderek
05-25-2008, 04:23 PM
How about I still own a working 8-track player with tapes and have about 200 records, both 33s and 45s. I also still have 2 working Atari systems with about 150 games. I think I'll apply have a Smithsonion Museum of Technology in my living room....

mmmmm....vinyl. i miss my turntables...

tesral
05-25-2008, 08:48 PM
mmmmm....vinyl. i miss my turntables...

I don't. Finicky things at best. I love a good turntable, but I can honestly say I have never had one. My dad had (had, still does have) a Garrard turntable that would play anything from 78 to 16rpm. It rather set a high bar for my judging turntables. That thing would be on the order of 42 years old by now. I think he has replaced a belt of two along the way, needles certainly. But it was never hard on needles with a feather touch.

I like digital. It is crisp, it is clean. It never wears out. It takes up a fraction of the space. I've had 8 track, came to loath the format. Worn out a damn good Superscope cassette recorder. Been through a number of stereos.

I have a Pioneer stack: 40 watt receiver, 6 disk CD cassette changer, Dual tape deck. A Sony 400 jukebox CD player (It stores and plays 400 CDs in the space of 20 vinyl albums), Bose acustamas speakers. My next "CD player" is Maestro, a computer that I will rip my CDs to and I will store the CDs. Repainting my room kind of got in the way of setting up the computer. and finishing Phoenix comes first.

Got to finish getting Faux set up and moving the book shelf for the next wall of painting.

mrken
05-25-2008, 09:56 PM
No takers on the hunting car? Figured someone would know what it was. As for vinyl, I just got a new turntable. Is pretty nice actually, records to my computer, if I can figure out how to work the software. My daughter has promised to not play with the stylus this time. Has removed the stylus for years. That’s why my albums have been stored so long. Now that they are playing Guitar Hero some of my old songs are new again. lol

agoraderek
05-26-2008, 04:50 AM
I don't. Finicky things at best. I love a good turntable, but I can honestly say I have never had one. My dad had (had, still does have) a Garrard turntable that would play anything from 78 to 16rpm. It rather set a high bar for my judging turntables. That thing would be on the order of 42 years old by now. I think he has replaced a belt of two along the way, needles certainly. But it was never hard on needles with a feather touch.

i dj'ed at a club (drum and bass and jungle, and whatever got the dance floor moving) and had a heck of a vinyl collection (i even mixed and old 78 of "no no nanette" music to some euro-techno and made it work...), but i lost all of that at the same time i lost my d&d collection. i've tried the cd mixers and playing with mp3s on fruit loops, but it isnt the same as two technics and an analog mixer. plus, it doesnt sound right when you "scratch" a cd using an effect...

Oldgamer
05-26-2008, 08:50 AM
I still have many 33's and 45's, even a few 78's. Happily got rid of all my 8-tracks, my favorite was Richard Pryor's Live on Sunset Strip, the tape inside got melted because the late Mr. Pryor sounded underwater. I can't find turntables that are worth a crap anymore so the albums have been stored for a year or two.

Never heard of a Hunting Car, we used to hunt out of an old International Scout...but never a car...

Unless you're talking about another kind of huntin...:biggrin:

cplmac
05-26-2008, 10:30 AM
How about I still own a working 8-track player with tapes and have about 200 records, both 33s and 45s. I also still have 2 working Atari systems with about 150 games. I think I'll apply have a Smithsonion Museum of Technology in my living room....


Alas, our 8-track quit working. This was of course after you could no longer buy one. My parents finally sold the old 8-track tapes at a flea market. This was only after making three different moves to new appartments.

mrken
05-26-2008, 12:40 PM
My first car, hunting car, was a 58 Ford Fairlane. It was indestructible, err, sort of. In those days salt was used to melt the ice on the roads. And salt on the metal meant rust on everything, wheel wells, rocker panels, fenders, everything. Because the rust was so bad on the inside of the front fenders the headlights had to be wired in with stove wire. Well every now and again when I would hit a bump or something a headlight would get out of alignment, the left one would point up and the right one would point down. One night while driving around, one of my friends had to point out to everyone’s amusement, “Hey, we can hunt coons from this window and squirrels from that one”.

Another place rusted out was the back seat floor. My dad one day was riding in the back and lifted up the floor mat and the hole from the sink we had cut out and saw the floor was missing. He put it back and didn’t say anything. I had to tell him later that was for when the brakes would go out, he could stick his feel through the floor and help stop us.

Tony Misfeldt
05-26-2008, 03:33 PM
Another place rusted out was the back seat floor. My dad one day was riding in the back and lifted up the floor mat and the hole from the sink we had cut out and saw the floor was missing. He put it back and didn’t say anything. I had to tell him later that was for when the brakes would go out, he could stick his feel through the floor and help stop us.

Flintstones, meet the Flintstones
They're a Yabba-Dabba family
In the town of Bedrock
They're a place right out of history

mrken
05-26-2008, 06:52 PM
:D That car was known for both the hole and the headlights. At least the wheel didn't fall off like my friends Ploge.:laugh:

tesral
05-26-2008, 08:14 PM
I had a Cordoba with the right side a foot to the left of the proper position.

mrken
05-26-2008, 09:01 PM
I was following a white Durango today that made me scratch my head. Was driving down the road sideways. Tesral, you get into a slide and smack the curb too hard?

Oldgamer
05-27-2008, 07:10 AM
My first car, hunting car, was a 58 Ford Fairlane. It was indestructible, err, sort of. In those days salt was used to melt the ice on the roads. And salt on the metal meant rust on everything, wheel wells, rocker panels, fenders, everything. Because the rust was so bad on the inside of the front fenders the headlights had to be wired in with stove wire. Well every now and again when I would hit a bump or something a headlight would get out of alignment, the left one would point up and the right one would point down. One night while driving around, one of my friends had to point out to everyone’s amusement, “Hey, we can hunt coons from this window and squirrels from that one”.

Another place rusted out was the back seat floor. My dad one day was riding in the back and lifted up the floor mat and the hole from the sink we had cut out and saw the floor was missing. He put it back and didn’t say anything. I had to tell him later that was for when the brakes would go out, he could stick his feel through the floor and help stop us.



Ah, that's what I knew them as, Coon Hunters, one for shinin' trees and one for ground spottin' :D