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Xaels Greyshadow
12-30-2007, 08:16 PM
This is some of the most disheartening news I have read in a long time. In the eyes of WoTC, 3.5 is already dead.


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dred/20071221

rabkala
12-30-2007, 08:39 PM
My favorite position is the Flying Lotus. :D Mmmm... sweet lotus action.

When you put your grandmother in that nursing home, you really don't expect her to have much of a life anymore. It's just a waiting game until the final curtain like 3.5 waiting for 4e.... I kind of figured that a long while ago. Did you actually think they would continue support for the old stuff? At best, 3.5 will get a little back corner of the forums like previous out of print material does now. Soon they will wipe away the old trash, so there is room for the new.

Xaels Greyshadow
12-30-2007, 08:47 PM
I know, I know. It's just so depressing to me.:( And to my wallet.:mad: I see them telling us so often that it will still be the same game, with some minor changes, but when you get into reading the individual columns, they say "It's drastically changed from 3E and totally different mechanic." So, which is it? Something we will recognize? Or something we will have to learn all over again?

Mulsiphix
12-30-2007, 08:56 PM
Does anybody know if any of the major supplement companies (Goodman Games, Green Ronin, etc...) have made any announcements as to their plans to abandon 3.X when 4E becomes the standard?

Digital Arcanist
12-30-2007, 09:00 PM
Take a look at Saga Edition and decide for yourself. Saga is like our little sneak peak at what 4e will most likely be. For me at least, its not a big change mechanically but more like a an old rock star reinventing himself for a new generation of fans. After reading Races and Classes, I'm sad to see Gnomes go but stoked for the lack of alignment and level adjustments. The "new" races are great and I like the redefinition of the classes.

Mulsiphix
12-30-2007, 09:01 PM
When you say "new generation of fans" does that apply to 4E? That is are they trying to reinvent the game to appeal to a new target audience?

Digital Arcanist
12-30-2007, 09:14 PM
I'm hesitant to say yes, but I think the target audience is different than 7 years ago when 3.0 hit the shelves. Most of us here are "older" and we all have seen the changes in the youth of today. Everything has gone the way of instant gratification. Heck, they have labeled this generation of kids "Generation Me" and I doubt kids are interested in the complex rules of 3.5 so WotC has streamlined things and is working to simplify the settings so that anyone can just sit down and almost instantly be up to speed with everyone else. Now the catch is that they still need to retain their player-base who, being mostly adults, have a goodly amount of disposable income.

So far I'm willing to put down my hard-earned pesos to get the core books.

I am saddened by the change in Dragon but heartened by the stability of Dungeon. Honestly, there are enough classes, spells, and feats in all the source books Dragon Magazines to keep us happy for quite a few years. What I am already tired of are the articles about the creation of 4e and long-term goals for the company. I want to see some new critters, and classes, and locales that are just for 4e.

Mulsiphix
12-30-2007, 09:27 PM
So is the whole system changing towards speeding things up or just certain aspects like combat and/or character creation? Would more complex play be a possibility for those that wish it? That is do you think there will be optional rule supplements for those that wish to play with the current version of D&D but desire a more complex gaming system. All in all I'm just wondering if I should hold off on reading the 1,000+ pages of the 3.5 books and wait another six months before I can get my hands on the D&D 4E material. If the whole game is being simplified would it be wiser to learn v3.5 instead since I desire complexity and there are enough supplements available for 3.X to keep me busy the rest of my life? I value the massive loads of experience you all have and would very much like to hear what you would recommend somebody in my position with my desire to have a deep and fulfilling gaming experience.

Xaels Greyshadow
12-30-2007, 09:41 PM
I'm wondering how long it's going to take to convert Ptolus to 4E? I want to purchase it as it seems to be the "Holy Land" of campaign sources, but what about now with 4E?

Mulsiphix
12-30-2007, 09:59 PM
Monte has already published conversion rules for 3E to v3.5 for all of his major products. He is very good about updates and is EXTREMELY active in his company and projects. I have no doubt that 4E rules will be issued for Ptolus within the few months following the release of the 4E MM in July 2008.

Digital Arcanist
12-30-2007, 10:53 PM
I plan of playing 3.5 for a long time and will mix in rules from earlier editions into my 4e games because I'm not entirely pleased with the rules changes they have published so far.....once again it is important to understand that things are not set in stone yet and some changes may be reversed still.

As for Ptolus...you have to understand Xaels that the stuff in that book isn't really suited for another campaign setting because it is just too powerful. You could probably integrate some things into an old-style FR campaign with little adverse effect. I wouldn't wait to pick the book up. The character creation isn't listed in the book and the monsters in it are basically run-of-the-mill D&D monsters.

Mulsiphix
12-30-2007, 11:46 PM
How is Ptolus not meant for other D&D campaigns? One of its biggest selling points was virtually any portion of the book could be inserted into any ongoing D&D campaign you may be running.

From the Ptolus.com Ptolus FAQ (http://www.ptolus.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_Ptolus_FAQ):

I already have a campaign setting of my own. Why should I care about Ptolus?
It became clear to us when we started working on this product that there were already a lot of campaign settings out there -- how many can you really use at once, right? Well, the nice thing about Ptolus is that, while it is an entire setting, it is also just a single city and its environs. Because Ptolus epitomizes all the standard assumptions of the d20 System, it's a city you can insert easily into most d20 campaigns.


Just for reference Xaels Greyshadow:
With this much space, are you going to detail every building and person in the city?
No. Even if it were possible, it's not desirable. To run an urban fantasy campaign, you've absolutely got to have the freedom to create new locations and NPCs as needed. So what this book does is present locations in differing levels of detail:
1. Detailed, room-by-room keyed locations.
2. Detailed and described locations.
3. Locations briefly described.
4. Locations presented in name only.

Plus, the book has plenty of areas waiting for DMs to fill them in with their own creations.


There are lots of big RPG books out there -- anything new or different in this one?
Yes! We've been working on this a long, long time. Much of that time was spent investigating ways to make a book easier to reference as well as simply more useful. We modeled much of it not on existing roleplaying sourcebooks, but on travel guidebooks to create a book that is, in many ways, very different from anything anyone has seen before in the RPG hobby.
Ptolus is designed entirely from a DM's perspective (although the aforementioned Player's Guide is all from a player's perspective). As a longtime DM and DM advocate, Monte has focused extra energy to make this book not only easy, but actually a joy to use. This includes, but isn't limited to, the following elements:
Footnotes with page references for every character, location, and organization as it is mentioned in the text.
Color-coded parts and chapters (read more about this here (http://www.ptolus.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_Ptolus_preview1)).
Multiple category-based indexes and a glossary.
A highly detailed table of contents, with a mini-table of contents at the beginning of each part.
Symbols and artwork used to create mnemonic devices to help manage all the locations.
Where appropriate, a notation on each spread to refer you to the page where you can find the map associated with that page's contents.
A new, easy-to-use stat block format for NPCs
Loose sheets with both player and DM aids, including sheets (intended to be attached to a DM's screen) containing frequently referenced Ptolus material.
Seven bookmarks—three cloth, and four cardstock with labels—to help mark important pages.
And even more!

Maelstrom
12-31-2007, 05:41 AM
So is the whole system changing towards speeding things up or just certain aspects like combat and/or character creation?

Take a look at www.enworld.org (http://www.enworld.org) if you want a comprehensive list of what has been changed as part of D&D 4th edition. This site has done a remarkable job of piecing together all of the news that has been confirmed about what they plan on doing to it, and even has been able to get some exclusive questions/answers with WotC folks to clarify details.

One of the changes that interests me most are the description of combat in 4th edition. With attacks of opportunity and the requirement you remain almost motionless to get all of your attacks, combat in 3.5 is very static. Not so in 4th edition... they describe a rouge being able to jump off a wall over the head of an enemy to strike him in the back for example. The warlock class seems to have a large part of its abilities centered around moving characters around, again breaking up static combat.

Another major change is how spells/special abilities are treated. Instead of just having a set number of spells per day that you have to rememorize after a night of sleep, you will have some abilities that remain one use per day, some (less powerful abilities) that have one use per encounter, and others that have one use per round. This works out to mean a wizard will always have a spell to cast, even after a gruelling set of encounters.


All in all I'm just wondering if I should hold off on reading the 1,000+ pages of the 3.5 books and wait another six months before I can get my hands on the D&D 4E material.

It is really tough to say at this point. Much is being kept secret about 4th edition for many to make a judgement that you are definitely or definitely not going to make the leap. What I am waiting for is D&D Experience (DDXP) when will get the opportunity to try it for myself. I'm signed up to play it on the first day of the convention near the end of Februrary. I'll make sure to describe my experience here if noone else does.

I certainly don't think it won't hurt to peruse the 3.5 material if you have the time. That way you can make a more informed judgement when more information is available.

Incedentely, I'm also DMing at DDXP so if any want to try (or avoid) my style I'll be running some 3.5 eberron adventures.

Xaels Greyshadow
12-31-2007, 10:45 AM
Thanks for the EnWorld posting. I just spent the last hour there reading and don't know what to say. I'm one of those "Hold out." types. What I see on the surface, and this is reflected by my current negative mindset only, is that they have decided to "Dumb down." the game for a younger "Teen." audience that wants to play mid to high level adventurers, but aren't or weren't smart enough in school and have had to have things simplified for them so they can figure out the mechanics. I could not find one thing represented that is not in a book mechanically now, IE: rogues flipping over enemies and springing off of walls and having extra attacks and on and on and on, that hasn't been published now! We will not be able to convert our characters of old to 4E it is written. We will have to buy "V-Minis" for our online games that come with a price tag aside from the already noted target $10 spot a month for the online subscription, then I have to buy a new book, $30 roughly, then pay an additional fee to access the precious PDF content. 4 Classes in the initial PHB for sure, everything else questionable at best. The promise of future books expanding the world that I and countless others have already expanded, each carrying a heafty price tag. I'm ranting now, and almost can't stop. The art was awesome. Thanks for letting me share. I have created a secret space behind my driver license in my wallet now for the "4E" saving plan. I should be able to get the core books this comming june and the adventure kicker to go with it. Thanks for letting me share.

Mulsiphix
12-31-2007, 10:50 AM
The main reservation I have about learning v3.5 and then soon after 4E is that I won't really have had a chance to see the rules and concepts I'm learning in action. It will all be theory. If I go to learn 4E I am likely, due to the massive volume of information presented in the PHB and DMG, to have a blurred understanding of the rules. I think my "knowledge" would probably be a 3.5/4E hybrid versus two independent rule sets. If I could keep the two apart or if the changes in 4E were black and white and I could easily compare the changes between v3.5/4E then I think I would have a better chance of differentiating the two in my mind. A lot of "IF"s in play and I am already greatly intimidated by the vast amount of knowledge I must learn to play this game as a DM.

Xaels Greyshadow
12-31-2007, 11:14 AM
Don't let all this be intimidating. Remember, as a DM you can bend, flex and break rules, so to speak. Changes are House Rules. Everything you have so far is knowledge, and as we all know, knowledge is power. You will only be making yourself and your game better by forging on with what you have now to work with. For your first game, in my opinion, all you need to do is decide what checks your going to make, and what your players are going to make, have enough material to flow your story line, some NPC's defined and go. I run a wide open world where anything goes, but I am lucky enough to have the library of books, and willingness to tote them with me to games. I have read through each and every one and can referance quickly something if needed without throwing a major long boring pause in the action or story. Start small, run strong, maintain positive control yet be flexible and you will have as much fun as a fledgling DM now as I have as a bull headed, crusty old D&D crumudgeon with some 30 plus years playing and DM'ing. Just get out there and go for it.

Farcaster
12-31-2007, 11:23 AM
Another major change is how spells/special abilities are treated. Instead of just having a set number of spells per day that you have to rememorize after a night of sleep, you will have some abilities that remain one use per day, some (less powerful abilities) that have one use per encounter, and others that have one use per round. This works out to mean a wizard will always have a spell to cast, even after a gruelling set of encounters.

I would probably prefer a mana/spell pool, as that seems to make the most sense to me, but I am glad to hear that they are changing the spell system. I know that my players have expressed frustration with their spell lineups many, many times (in both 2e and 3e.)

Xaels Greyshadow
12-31-2007, 11:27 AM
Recharge Magic alternate rule, I believe to be in Unearthed Arcana? Haven't made a spot check. Role a die after each spell use and the PC has to wait that many rounds before being able to use that particular spell again? I have played in a couple games where we used that system and it worked well. Seemed a lot more realistic and the Wizard/Sorcerer wasn't overpowered.

Mulsiphix
12-31-2007, 11:29 AM
Farcaster have you ever thought of house ruling in a mana/spell pool? Surely it has been covered somewhere in the massive mound of 3.X publications.

Farcaster
12-31-2007, 11:47 AM
Mulsiphix, the Unearthed Arcana had a spell point pool system in it. I thought it was fairly good, but my spell casting players resisted that solution for whatever reason. I think he crunched out the numbers (which he was wont to do) and found that he could cast slightly less spells, albeit with more versatility.

Maelstrom
12-31-2007, 02:31 PM
You could always go psionics... they have a pool correct? I've never actually read the details, but a friend was telling me about how you have one pool, and each spell you cast can be improved in multiple ways with additional points spent.

Inquisitor Tremayne
12-31-2007, 03:23 PM
From what I can tell from Star Wars Saga Edition is that the streamlining allows you to focus on the story more and keep the game moving.

I've noticed the drastic difference in our D&D game vs. our SW game.

While our SW games tend to get bogged down on occasion, its getting bogged down on story elements, ie. the PCs trying to decide their next course of action. Any rule looking up is pretty quick.

In our D&D games there tends to be a mechanic or rule for every little detail thing a character can do. This leads to bogging the game down with looking up minor rules like how long it takes to get in and out of armor or what the penalty is for sleeping in armor. Then there is making sure you find it in the right book. So there tends to be more looking up rules that bogs down the time instead of focusing on the story.

Now, if they have found a way to minimize this I say its all for the better. I say minimize because part of the reason I enjoy D&D is for all the details. For some reason I think D&D needs this to help create verisimilitude but not so much for Star Wars, I don't know why this is.

Anywho, I know for a fact that our D&D game will remain 3.5 even though several of us will buy the books for 4th edition so it doesn't really matter to our games.

Digital Arcanist
12-31-2007, 04:08 PM
The Rules Compendium should alleviate the slowness of looking stuff up. Apparently whatever this book says overrides all other books including the core books.

Its important to note though that there are but less than a handful of source books for Star Wars and tens of books for 3.X. Who knows how this "streamlined" system is going to operate when it reaches the seven year mark.

Mulsiphix
12-31-2007, 04:47 PM
Aren't psionics more like using "the force" in SW rather than fireballs, ice showers, and magic arrows that are so common in fantasy? Seems you would be changing a great deal, as far as effects possible is concerned, by switching from magic to psionics.

Farcaster
12-31-2007, 05:32 PM
Personally, I don't think psionics feel right in my fantasy games. We had a discussion about this not too long ago on this thread: 2740

Digital Arcanist
12-31-2007, 06:46 PM
Psionics can replicate any effect in the book but like Farcaster said, most of us don't feel that psionics fit in with the feel of a fantasy setting.

Mulsiphix
12-31-2007, 07:32 PM
Definitely doesn't seem appropriate for Fantasy. Psionics are more super hero, sci-fi, or even cyberpunk. They fit greatly into many war games like Starship Troopers RPG or Warhammer 40K too. Fantasy and Magic are virtually synonymous. Other than Arcana Unearthed, does anybody know of any alternate magic/mana pooling systems? I came across this over at Gleemax: Mana Mage: a spell point system that works (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761370)

Digital Arcanist
12-31-2007, 08:43 PM
There is "essence" in the Magic of Incarnum book that is a pool but I didn't really like that book so I didn't read much of it.

Mulsiphix
12-31-2007, 09:12 PM
Didn't Shadowrun or Earthdawn have pooling systems? I thought they were famous for the concept. Won a few origins or eenie awards.

Bloodwyrm
01-02-2008, 06:29 PM
i Like 3.5 cmon WoTC Its Not Dead I Know over 100 people who still play it jeez.

rabkala
01-02-2008, 07:28 PM
There is "essence" in the Magic of Incarnum book that is a pool but I didn't really like that book so I didn't read much of it.
I really disliked that book, just pathetically bad pandering IMHO. I try to block its existence from my mind. Books like that have killed 3.5 Bloodwyrm.

Mulsiphix
01-03-2008, 01:01 AM
Books like that have killed 3.5 Bloodwyrm.Care to name a few others I should watch out for? I've yet to spend my Christmas money and I have my eye on several 3.5 goodies. I haven't decided on a WOTC product yet and I'm dead set on getting at least one WOTC 3.5 item.

Digital Arcanist
01-03-2008, 01:07 AM
I suggest the Rules Compendium, the Spell Compendium, and the Magic Item Compendium as well as Sandstorm, Stormwracked, and Frostburn. Cityscape and Dungeonscape are nice reads too but not integral to a great game.

Stay away from Complete Mage and the Tome of Magic.

rabkala
01-03-2008, 09:51 AM
I guess in many cases, it is a matter of taste. What things do you like in a game? With what preconceived notions do you come to a game? At what point can you suspend disbelief? How real do you like things? How serious are you? ETC.
I am a Sword and Sorcery of the 70's guy. When you get too far away from the classic roles and iconic characters, the feel of the game has changed. I don't want to play Aliens and Anime or Weirdos and Wrestlers (of the WWF). While I do like other games, I have likes and dislikes in my Dungeons and Dragons game.

I think DA is spot on with his suggestions.

Tome of battle has many things that aren't to my liking, but I wouldn't say everything in it is bad.

Unearthed Arcana has some things I don't like and some things that don't work well in practice, but isn't all that bad overall.

Tome of Magic is pure crap IMHO.

The Map folios are a waste.

There are several oddities and flavor issues with some of the races books, more of a case by case and matter of taste for the most part.

Expanded Psionics and Complete Psionic don't look to bad if you just read them by themselves. In practice, there are many issues. Again, it has a flavor I generally do not want in my games. Then again, a psionic only or specifically devised setting with these books could be fun.

Some books I like, but get little use. I guess its hard to go through every book off the top of my head.

There are power issues all over the place. You always have to be vigilant when mixing and matching between the accessories/supplements. Most seemed to be balanced within themselves. When you take base class 1 from book one, base class two from book two, race from book three, five different feats from another 4 or five books, prestige classes from another book or two,... then shake (do not stir) it all together.

I would suggest looking at any book for awhile before actually buying it, unless you just like collecting them. Ask yourself if you like the flavor, how much use will this get, or if anything jumps out at you in a good or bad way.

Anyway, I think I might be rambling. What thread is this again?

Mulsiphix
01-03-2008, 11:15 AM
I guess in many cases, it is a matter of taste. What things do you like in a game? With what preconceived notions do you come to a game? At what point can you suspend disbelief? How real do you like things? How serious are you? ETC.
I am a Sword and Sorcery of the 70's guy. When you get too far away from the classic roles and iconic characters, the feel of the game has changed. I don't want to play Aliens and Anime or Weirdos and Wrestlers (of the WWF). While I do like other games, I have likes and dislikes in my Dungeons and Dragons game.I'm on the other side of the spectrum I think. I feel the original Dungeons and Dragons is too "cookie-cutter" for me. I enjoy things that reinvent certain concepts for me. I'm trying to collect every book Monte Cook created as I like his approach of "improving" what I find to be a pretty stale genre these days.

I like my games to be 75% RP, 25% combat. I like puzzles and suspense, deep plot lines, and never quite knowing what is going to happen next. I come to most any game with the preconceived notion that I am about to embark on an adventure that will be fun and expect my imagination to be be stimulated. I don't like things to be real. I have this hobby specifically to help me feel or imagine that I am in a much different setting. Even as an adult I still have many of the same desires I had as a child. I want to go into outer space, heroically save the world, do something great that others will remember me for when I am gone, etc.... PnP gaming helps me feel like a kid again in the sense that anything is possible and my imagination is the limit.

I expect all settings to be governed by a set of rules. If a setting establishes that time travel to the past is possible, but not the future, then I expect nobody to travel to the future. All settings have their limitations and are bound by certain laws. When these are breached, through oversight or lack of care on the storytellers part, I become agitated and the "fun" factor suffers heavily. In this way I want things to be very real and serious even if the setting itself is completely unpractical and implausible. I think a perfect example of this is a superhero. If Wolverine were to start flying or Xavior were to get up out of his chair and start running around, I would not be happen, regardless of how fantastical the setting is.

Digital Arcanist
01-03-2008, 06:34 PM
In addition to the books I listed, the Races of Destiny, Races of Stone, and Races of the Wild have loads of great information for the core races and the information about the non-core races is great for making NPC's.

Unearthed Arcana is nice but since you are still learning the basic rules, reading a book about variations might confusing plus there is the whole gestalt and paragon thing that WILL confuse you a little.

For players I recommend restricting the books to the PHB, DMG and the Complete Series. There are more tha enough spells, feats, and classes for any player.

As a DM you would do well to have a PHB, DMG, Rules Compendium, Manual of the Planes, Demigods and Deities, and any mixture of the Monster Manuals and Fiendish Codexes.

These books will cover all the bases for any campaign. If you plan on having a TON of undead then the Libris Mortis is handy but not essential.

Mulsiphix
01-03-2008, 08:26 PM
Digital Arcanist are you a core only kind of guy or do you like to branch out into other D20 content? I know Farcaster mentioned he lives and dies by the core books but you strike me as a man who enjoys a serious deviation from the core from time to time. I personally only wish to know the core well enough that I can appreciate the differences that alternative rule sets (Arcana Unearthed, Iron Heroes, The Book Of Eldritch Might, etc...) can provide. I find the standard core/manilla experience to be almost threatening to my creativity; regardless of how well documented and vast the core books might be. I find it hard to explain why I feel the need for such deviation though :confused:

Digital Arcanist
01-03-2008, 09:37 PM
There are mountains of source books, adventures, and several campaign settings all under the WotC licensing that there are literally millions of combinations that any player can find the one character that completes them.

As the DM, there are enough kernels to grow a campaign from. Now when you say core, to me there are only 3 books and they have the word core on their covers. The rest of the books are supplemental.

I've played most of the games out there and I've found that when you bring stuff from other publishers you run into problems with the rules and playability. Its the reason I love Ptolus but will never allow stuff from that game into a D&D game.

It all boils down to my absolute hatred of house rules. In my mind, there are enough solutions to combat the over-powering of some classes and spells, and feats in the game that you don't need a house rule to fix it. For me, I want a player to walk in off the street, sit down, and already be up to speed with the rest of the players, rule-wise.

I guess my box is so big, that I never need to work outside it.:D Its a symptom of being an engineer and having OCD I guess.:rolleyes:

Mulsiphix
01-03-2008, 10:27 PM
I'm kinda the opposite. I love the idea of house rules. I figure any game that I have that is using house rules is going to be a very long term campaign. In such a setting I want to make sure that I have complete control of every aspect and can do whatever I want. I don't agree with every rule that exists for any game that I've played and I often take the liberty of changing one or two things to enhance the fun. I hate house rules that make it possible for people to have whatever items they want so they can truly do whatever they want. That kind of stuff drives me nuts. But if I feel a slight change needs to be made or in the case of 4E where I think Gnomes should still be a playable class, then I'm going to make such a decision without hesitation. In general though I only implement house rules when a current rule is specifically preventing me from doing something I want (in which case I try to bend the rule as much as possible before outright breaking it) and in 90% of the cases I invent house rules to cover something I feel is completely lacking or needs further definition.

Digital Arcanist
01-03-2008, 10:52 PM
True the Gnome situation will need a house rule but it is an unprecedented problem.

Mostly, if I want to do something then I do it as a DM. If a player wants to do something and I don't want him to then I just say NO.:D

Maelstrom
01-04-2008, 06:21 AM
I'm a wargamer at heart, so what bugs me is the lack of balance with certain spells/feats/classes, etc. I hate to see my painstakingly balanced adventure blown out of the water by a spell in a sourcebook I didn't have. For example, there is a 1st level spell somewhere called cloudburst that causes a rainstorm in an area for 10 minutes per level in a pretty wide radius.

The players were trying to defend an orchard, the sole means of livelihood for the only town in a valley, from attack by fire arrows, salamanders, and fire mephits, so the cloudburst spell totally shut down the attack, which was meant to be a difficult defense in a hostile (burning) environment.

I was trying to tone back my resistance to change, because I knew that specific player really likes to powergame/minmax and I was trying to be better about allowing players to enjoy themselves in their own way, so I didn't stop it.

For me, its difficult to reach past the well-tested core, since there are so many combinations beyond them that break the balance, but seeing that some players spend oodles of money to get everything out there I've got to let them do so. I just need to find the right balance between my wargaming penchant and player enjoyment, making balance changes on the fly as they come.

This is one reason I'm going towards the RPGA style of gaming, where they have whole rulesets with restrictions on certain classes/races/feats that consider most D&D sources but eliminate those choices that are too unbalanced.

Mulsiphix
01-04-2008, 03:43 PM
The majority of my large campaigns will be mixing together a great deal of different settings. Right now I'm planning on doing my first campaign in The Wilderlands. If anybody is familiar with this it comes with massive maps that are full of hexes. Each hex has its own story/setting. The settings are very lightly detailed though so the majority of the hex's are nothing but adventure hooks.

There are several city products out there like Ptolus and Bard's Gate. These cities are huge and hold ridiculous amount of possible adventures. I just don't like the idea of campaigning for a year in just Ptolus. I want to be able to come and go from it as I please. In different parts of the world I will use different settings like the one from DragonMech. Basically taking my favorite D7D/D20 settings and throwing them into one world. I'll come up with a story to tie them altogether.

The hex map will be divided up into sections which will represent what product is being used. When in the DragonMech area the rules switch over to DragonMech rules. When in the Arcana Unearthed area you'll encounter classes and enemies with spells and feats from that setting. I know there will be a lot of balancing issues but I want to get a wide variety of things all in one universe. If I can't find a way to balance it then I will probably have each player get a single character in each suppliment/section and they will all join up in the end to fight some super evil which would require a raid sized party.

Still very much on the drawing board but I've been snatching up supplements, modules, and entire self-contained products that I would like to see in this super setting. Obviously such a setting would require a great deal of house rules to keep order but I think I could pull it off with enough planning :D

Digital Arcanist
01-04-2008, 11:02 PM
For your first adventure as a DM in this system you might want to chant one word over and over when designing your world...

K.I.S.S.

Mulsiphix
01-04-2008, 11:09 PM
What does it stand for?

Digital Arcanist
01-04-2008, 11:14 PM
Use your Google-Fu young grasshopper...

tesral
01-04-2008, 11:30 PM
Yep, real pity all the words will fall out of the old books once 4e hits the shelves. Real pity.

Balderdash. Lizards of the Coast I do not need. I have played the game since it was Tactical Studies Rules. I write my own material, and if required write my own gaming books. I have survived every edition change since AD&D. I have survived the company change, the edition changes and I keep what I like and toss what I don't. I am not the slave of any edition cycle. I can turn any book into a game supliment. I can turn anything into a game.

It is not necessary to change your game. It might not even be a good idea. "New generation of gamers?" Heck, the old generation is still around. <VOICE=old geezer> Ayup, back in the day we didn't have dice! We used sheep bones and rocks! And some of them-there sheep bones still had sheep on 'em. And we liked it! </VOICE>

The only reason to produce yet another edition is to get you to buy all the books yet again. I've seen Saga, I was not impressed. It's d20 dumbed down even more.

Mulsiphix
01-04-2008, 11:30 PM
The KISS Army will help me with my first adventure? My google skills aren't up to par Master. Please, show me the digital path *bows*

Mulsiphix
01-04-2008, 11:35 PM
<VOICE=old geezer> Ayup, back in the day we didn't have dice! We used sheep bones and rocks! And some of them-there sheep bones still had sheep on 'em. And we liked it! </VOICE> :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: OMG LOL ROFL ROFLCOPTER!!!!! YES YES YES!!! That needs to be on a D&D T-Shirt somewhere :p

Maelstrom
01-05-2008, 04:40 AM
Keep It Simple, Stupid!

rabkala
01-05-2008, 10:32 AM
The KISS Army will help me with my first adventure? *
Why would you want a bunch of old guys dressed as Gene Simmon's 'Demon', Ace Frehley's 'Space Ace', Peter Criss' 'Cat', Eric Carr's 'Fox', Paul Stanley's 'Lovechild', etc. to help make a D&D adventure? I would think you would seek help from people that know about the game...

Digital Arcanist
01-05-2008, 12:35 PM
Why would you want a bunch of old guys dressed as Gene Simmon's 'Demon', Ace Frehley's 'Space Ace', Peter Criss' 'Cat', Eric Carr's 'Fox', Paul Stanley's 'Lovechild', etc. to help make a D&D adventure? I would think you would seek help from people that know about the game...

Are you saying the Kiss Army doesn't play D&D? Dagnabit...the only reason I ever started playing was because someone told me Gene Simmons is a level 12 Paladin!!!!

Mulsiphix
01-05-2008, 02:58 PM
WOTC has been getting some pretty big names to come out and admin they are D&D fans. I think Collin Ferral and Vin Disel were the most recent.

tesral
01-05-2008, 04:28 PM
WOTC has been getting some pretty big names to come out and admin they are D&D fans. I think Collin Ferral and Vin Disel were the most recent.

Bloody hobby is getting too popular....

Mulsiphix
01-05-2008, 09:22 PM
Nothing wrong with a hobby getting popular. I used to feel that way about anime and video games but I can't help but be happy there are more products to choose from. Back in the day I had to resort to fansubs of foreign anime if I wanted to see a series. Video games usually had super memorable hits once a year. Now there are a dozen every year.

Inquisitor Tremayne
01-06-2008, 02:08 PM
Don't forget Stephen Colbert was and possibly still is an avid D&D fan!


http://dailyshow.vodpod.com/video/372-stephen-colbert-on-dungeons-and-dragons