Favorite Dark Future Games

[fmitchell]

Yet another "favorite game" poll, this time for the "Dark Future" half of this board.

[fmitchell]

Argh, I forgot about the following games/subgenres:


Conspiracy X and other "ten minutes into the future" conspiracy games

Post-apocalyptic games like Tribe 8 or Daemornia. (Any examples without demons?)

Angels-and-demons games like Armageddon and In Nomine


"Other" might be a popular choice ...

[Olothfaern]

...Shadowrun all day. All the dark future games are pretty dystopian, but at least it was feasible to retire to the good life in Shadowrun.

[Mulsiphix]

I've gotta go with Cyberpunk. There is just something about cyberpunk storylines that make the future sexy in a gritty "Judge Dredd", "Snatcher (SegaCD anybody?), and Hell (3DO anybody?) kind of way.

[fmitchell]

I don't think I've ever played in a "Dark Future" campaign, per se. I own GURPS Cthulhupunk, GURPS Voodoo, and GURPS Cyberpunk, and used to own an old edition of Shadowrun, but never got to use any of them.

Stuff I'd like to try, though, include:

An occult future game. Shadowrun had elves, orcs, and other classic fantasy trappings: if you stripped out the Tolkien races and just went with spirits and urban monsters, I'd be more interested. Something more like GURPS Voodoo or a more Clive Barker-ish GURPS Cthulhupunk ... maybe mix in creatures from The Book of Unremitting Horror.

A post-apocalyptic world played straight: no zombies or demons, just people trying to survive after the catastrophic collapse of human civilization. Some are trying to found a new civilization, others see no future and pillage just to survive one more day. Something like The Postman (book, please), Mad Max, or A Canticle for Leibowitz.

A true dystopian future ... although maybe that would be too much like present day to actually be fun.

A secret war, set "ten minutes into the future", between some alien or supernatural threat and self-appointed human or superhuman guardians of mankind. Less of a grab-bag like X-Files or Men in Black, more the BBC miniseries Ultraviolet or, well, The World of Darkness.

[Mulsiphix]

Clive Barker-ish? I would kill to play something clive barker-ish. Or even Dean Koontz-ish reminiscent of Phantoms. Could you imagine a HellRaiser RPG? Friggin SWEEEET!

[MortonStromgal]

Ok I voted for SLA but other than initiative I hate the mechanics, but as a setting its my favorite.

[Drohem]

hehe..with my X-Mas cash I picked up copy of A/State by Contested Ground Studios; which is a RPG company out of Scotland.

I am pretty damn intrigued by the setting and the system.

The setting takes place within a sprawling metropolis. It's not quite clear exactly what happened to the city; either a nuclear holocaust or the city shifted planes of extistence. There is some kind of barrier that prevents the inhabitants from leaving the city; no one has left and come back alive. There is a race that is either ghostly or phase-shifters that live in the city as well; and there is an uneasy balance there.

The mechanics are skill-based percentile with point-buy for character creation.

I really would like to play this game someday. :cool:

They have a free A/State Lite version for download at their website. Check it out:

http://www.contestedground.co.uk/astlite.html

[Mulsiphix]

Drohem you buy more systems than I can recall which is ten kinds of awesome. When I grow up I want to be just like you :D

[Drohem]

Drohem you buy more systems than I can recall which is ten kinds of awesome. When I grow up I want to be just like you :D

Well, I came to terms with the fact that I am a RPG geek/nerd/dweeb/whatever a long time ago, and that this is my chosen hobby and creative outlet.

My philosophy is that everyone is a nerd/geek about their chosen hobby. If you talk to anyone who is really into needlepoint, it would sound just like a gamer talking about their hobby; they'd use terms you didn't understand, they'd be passionate about it, and you just won't get it like they do.

Also, I am bit complusive and used to collect everything. Over the years I have reduced my collecting to just table-top RPGs. I used to collect dice, minatures, books, weapons, pens, pencils, vinyl, cassettes, DVDs, etc. Now, I am married and have to two children. My wife has accepted my RPG collecting (it was part of the package deal :)), but I just can't add anything else anymore.

[boulet]

I like WoD but I can hardly assimilate it to "dark future". It's an alternative dark "now" they describe in these books, not really a future.

[fmitchell]

I like WoD but I can hardly assimilate it to "dark future". It's an alternative dark "now" they describe in these books, not really a future.

As originally written, but I think someone on the boards said he used WoD to play a near-future campaign. It's not much of a stretch, especially if you're going only 10-20 years into the future: new toys, maybe ubiquitous computing or some other "next big thing". Or, as in Monte Cook's vision, the world might have gone backwards due to some catastrophic event.

[Drohem]

And certainly with NWoD you can play mortals now in the near dark future. :cool:

[MortonStromgal]

Well nWOD is my GURPS... yes you hear it right if I don't have a system for it out comes nWOD and I start making stuff up for it. Mr. Gone has been nice enough to have all those wonderful fonts on his website to. I also *****ed about no dark ages nWOD mortal sheet and a week later he posted one... :o I felt kinda bad about it. I know someone without googlefoo is going to ask for a link so here you go. http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/

[Mulsiphix]

nWOD is your GURPS? You mean you create worlds for your nWOD characters to play in or?

[fmitchell]

The New World of Darkness system is close to being a generic system, on a par with Basic Roleplaying, Omni System, Unisystem, etc. It's not my cup of tea, but it's certainly serviceable.

The problems I see with using nWoD as a generic system revolve around finding material for other genres. GURPS has that in spades, the new Basic Roleplaying will supplement that lack (if you can't scare up Worlds of Wonder or another out-of-print Chaosium release in the relevant genre), and most of the others have worldbooks in multiple genres. To date, White Wolf has concentrated on modern horror/gothic, with the occasional excursion into the Middle Ages (or, recently, Rome).

Specific holes I can see:


A catalog of futuristic gear.
Spaceship and starship rules. (Are there even rules for modern/historical vehicles?)
Rules for historic/modern military equipment, if you need that sort of thing.
A traditional fantasy magic system, where wizards don't totally dominate mortals (that is, not Mage).
Nonhuman creatures that aren't spirits, vampires, werewolves, Scions, Prometheans, or Changelings ... for example aliens and stock fantasy "races"/species.
Superpowers (although I haven't read anything in the Scion series)

Yes, you can always borrow from GURPS and other games, but it does seem like more work for the GM than picking a system geared to a genre, or systems with support for multi-genre play.

[Drohem]

fmitchell pretty much covered it :cool:

[Mulsiphix]

fmitchell your saying you use the nWOD system for games other than WOD? From what you posted it sounds like GURPS except it is missing support for the genres that GURPS is most famous for catering too. However, if I understood you correctly the nWOD system would be perfect for "GURPSing" any type of horror campaign (technology and history aside of course)?

[Drohem]

The NWoD can be considered an universal system similiar to GURPS; meaning you could build a campaign for any genre.

[Mulsiphix]

Interesting indeed. How well would using the nWOD system as the universal rule system for playing the oWOD work out? I've read the rules for oWOD are sparse and not exactly all in one place. That the different WOD game lines don't really blend well as they weren't originally designed to be mixed.

[Drohem]

Interesting indeed. How well would using the nWOD system as the universal rule system for playing the oWOD work out? I've read the rules for oWOD are sparse and not exactly all in one place. That the different WOD game lines don't really blend well as they weren't originally designed to be mixed.

In the OWoD line, there is a serious power disparity between the games and creatures; mummies were generally considered the weakest. The NWoD addresses this issue for the most part.

[MortonStromgal]

The New World of Darkness system is close to being a generic system, on a par with Basic Roleplaying, Omni System, Unisystem, etc. It's not my cup of tea, but it's certainly serviceable.

The problems I see with using nWoD as a generic system revolve around finding material for other genres. GURPS has that in spades, the new Basic Roleplaying will supplement that lack (if you can't scare up Worlds of Wonder or another out-of-print Chaosium release in the relevant genre), and most of the others have worldbooks in multiple genres. To date, White Wolf has concentrated on modern horror/gothic, with the occasional excursion into the Middle Ages (or, recently, Rome).

Specific holes I can see:
A catalog of futuristic gear.
Spaceship and starship rules. (Are there even rules for modern/historical vehicles?)
Rules for historic/modern military equipment, if you need that sort of thing.
A traditional fantasy magic system, where wizards don't totally dominate mortals (that is, not Mage).
Nonhuman creatures that aren't spirits, vampires, werewolves, Scions, Prometheans, or Changelings ... for example aliens and stock fantasy "races"/species.
Superpowers (although I haven't read anything in the Scion series)Yes, you can always borrow from GURPS and other games, but it does seem like more work for the GM than picking a system geared to a genre, or systems with support for multi-genre play.

Mostly right, I'm not suggesting anyone do it I have enough other RPG matieral to steal ideas from and I know that whatever I need is 1-5 for standard 6+ for supernatural. Heres what I would do in your specific problems. I'll fully admit GURPS is better at this but I find the time saved by everyone making their characters in 5 min is worth the loss of source books.

A catalog of futuristic gear. - Shadowrun Books - Read it and then grab a similar power from Vampire/Werewolf/etc

Spaceship and starship rules. (Are there even rules for modern/historical vehicles?) - Old FASA Star Trek - And make it up

Rules for historic/modern military equipment, - Covered by Armory

A traditional fantasy magic system, where wizards don't totally dominate mortals (that is, not Mage). - Covered by Second Sight

Nonhuman creatures that aren't spirits, vampires, werewolves, Scions, Prometheans, or Changelings ... for example aliens and stock fantasy "races"/species. - D&D - And then make it up

Superpowers (although I haven't read anything in the Scion series) - Covered by all whitwolf worlds Vampire/Mage/Werewolf/Changling/Promethean


Again, its what I do. Not for everyone nor the best solution. Also again the reason I do it is to save time at character creation (gurps usually takes my group 3+ hours to make a character where as nWOD is 5min) Once your in game with rare exeptions the systems take similar time to resolve. Gurps is a little bit slower with full automatic weapons and a couple other places but nWOD could take as long or longer if a lot of 10s are rolled.

[Drohem]

Also again the reason I do it is to save time at character creation (gurps usually takes my group 3+ hours to make a character where as nWOD is 5min)

Gah! Maybe the first couple of characters you ever created, but after you've done it a couple of times I see it taking that long. :confused:

[MortonStromgal]

Its the advantages and disadvatages... If you don't have a clear idea of what you want there are too many options. If nWOD gave you a ton of merit points I could see the same thing happening. The GM could fix this by cutting the lists down of course (which is the better solution) but I choose to do the harder and make stuff up for nWOD :D oh and I love how nWOD does flaws! and have an irrational hate pt buy flaws.

[Mulsiphix]

Three hours seems a bit much. If I go with GURPS I plan to give all my players a list of what is not allowed for characters before they show up. I'll provide them with basic 50 point templates for reference as to what I think would be useful for the setting. Using something like the GURPS Character Assistant would also greatly speed things up. I think the majority of the time wasted here is done so by the players and is not necessarily the fault of the system, but human indecision. Then again I plan to not let any players in the door unless they have a completed character in hand lol.

[MortonStromgal]

human indecision.

Yeah thats pretty much it...

[trechriron]

Generally I like several settings like;

Shadowrun
Cyberpunk (I usually roll my own setting as 2020 seems outdated to me)
Cthulu (in my sci-fi like Cthulutech or Cthulupunk)
Transhuman Space (rocks the casbah but it's not really "dark")

I generally roll my own future and focus more on biotech, nano-tech, AI's, and a Dystopian cityscape like in Judge Dredd.

[BigUgly]

I would have to add Dark Conspiracy by GDW to the list. Its one of my all time favprite games.

[Thoth-Amon]

I would have to add Dark Conspiracy by GDW to the list. Its one of my all time favprite games.
Have you played it yet? I'd love to know your thoughts on it. I'm a big WFRP fan and am looking forward to playing this game.

Thoth-Amon

[BigUgly]

Haven't played any new versions of the game but spent many hours in the late 80's chasing Dark Minions through out the world. Remember doing a great adventure with a church that was in between the the Berlin wall, or i should say the wall was built around it. My ex-wife played it once and she was so scared she refused to play Dark Conspiracy again.

[MortonStromgal]

Thoth-Amon, You mean Dark Hersey (ie warhammer 40k)
Dark Conspiracy is a game from the 80s that uses the GDW system. I thought Dark Conspiracy was awesome until I owned the book and realized how my GM shielded me from all the cheesy.

[Thoth-Amon]

Thoth-Amon, You mean Dark Hersey (ie warhammer 40k)
Dark Conspiracy is a game from the 80s that uses the GDW system. I thought Dark Conspiracy was awesome until I owned the book and realized how my GM shielded me from all the cheesy.
I did, but the genre seemed the same and the answer i received encouraged me to look up the game and mentally note to purchase it on Ebay. So really, w/o even knowing it, i was asking about both games.

You got me curious about the "cheese." Explain what you liked about your game and what you were glad was removed(in 20/20 hindsight), by your GM. This goes for anyone who wishes to share, btw. Thanks,

Thoth-Amon

[MortonStromgal]

Well the premise is WONDERFUL! dark creatures, secret societies, etc. Then you start reading and its really GDW's verison of Shadowrun during the Nigel Findley years (rest in peace man, you rock). Its this over the top 80s cyberpunk with all kinds of mythic creatures running around the wastelands and big evil mega corporations protecting the citys. Which sounds cool but frankly the fiction is not Nigel Findley quality. Rather than being a Dark Conspiracy ala Cthuhlu or Unknown Armies it comes off as kill the monsters and take their stuff. I give it 5 out of 5 for effort but 2 out of 5 for execution.

[michaeljearley]

ShadowRun, without a doubt.

[BigUgly]

Stuff, The Dark Minions and Aliens had stuff? In the game we played, we the PC's were always broke and usually a half a step behind everything that was trying to kill us or kill others. The game our GM ran and the one I ran, the PC's stayed broke and pretty much became minion hunters because we had no choose. It was be a hunter and fight back or die like the rest of the sheep. And if we did allow a Gnome into the game it didn't take long before the dark minion figured out a way to ruin them fianancially. It was always more of a "Damnit, I have to wake up and try to survive the day again" setting.
I remember how being able to set the game in area/situations that where so close to the ones we live in, it made the game kind of freaky/scary. Nothing better then taking a murder case that just happened in your hometown and playing the PC's in the same situation with similar details. That was one of the reasons my ex-wife wouldn't play the game with us. She said she could close her eyes and feel like the stuff in game was really happening next door.

[MortonStromgal]

Stuff, The Dark Minions and Aliens had stuff? In the game we played, we the PC's were always broke and usually a half a step behind everything that was trying to kill us or kill others. The game our GM ran and the one I ran, the PC's stayed broke and pretty much became minion hunters because we had no choose. It was be a hunter and fight back or die like the rest of the sheep. And if we did allow a Gnome into the game it didn't take long before the dark minion figured out a way to ruin them fianancially. It was always more of a "Damnit, I have to wake up and try to survive the day again" setting.
I remember how being able to set the game in area/situations that where so close to the ones we live in, it made the game kind of freaky/scary. Nothing better then taking a murder case that just happened in your hometown and playing the PC's in the same situation with similar details. That was one of the reasons my ex-wife wouldn't play the game with us. She said she could close her eyes and feel like the stuff in game was really happening next door.

Sounds like your GM was like mine and threw out the cheese. For example theres a decent size section on the state of the world where it basically says you either live in one of the huge cities or your monster food. Theres no middle ground. Also IIRC Los Angeles takes up most of southern California, I would have to look that up though I just remember the cities mentioned were bigger than some states currently. Just out of Curiosity did your GM throw out the cyberpunk to?

[Webhead]

I voted Cyberpunk 2020 because the game was very different from just about anything else I'd played at the time. It was the first time I'd ever seen a "lifepath" system in any RPG up to that point and I thought that was really cool. And no matter how bad-a$$ your character thought he was, there was always, always something that could mess you up six ways from Sunday. Even a street-punk with a paintball gun (that's not paint in those pellets) can ruin your day.

And then, cyberpsychosis. Very cool idea. Want to replace your entire body with super cyber-weapons...sure...and congratulations, now you're as nutty as a Christmas fruitcake. They've got special divisions of the police force trained to turn you into a waffle iron...welcome to the future. ;)

[BigUgly]

We still used the Mega Cities, and the territories outside them was kind of like the Mad Max setting. You could still find towns where the locals had learned to live with the wandering gangs. In my game I never made it where the whole United States was a mad house except where the Mega Cities where. We still used some of the cyber punk stuff but 95% of it you got during character creation. I ran my game in my home state of New Mexico. Just made a Mega City call Rio Grande City that ran from just south of Santa Fe down the Rio Grande river and I25 to Las Cruces. New Mexico is full of military labs and bases, with places like the VLA that would draw aliens and dark minion like crazy. Plus the added affect of the PC's actually knowing in detail about the area their playing in really brings the dark future theme to life. I would create a New Mexico tabloid called The New Mexico Argus and give it out to the players and let them decide what they wanted to do. I found that I do that in all the games I run be it dark future, fantasy or sci fi. I create the world and have a good idea what is where and let the PC's go where they want. If chasing the dark minions just happens to lead them into a mega corps personnel battle against another mega corp so be it, they'll just have to clean up the new mess before they can go back to their old mess. On the downside I have killed my share of PC's because they stumble into a place that they are not capable of handling yet. But hey thats how life is, sometimes you just go down the wrong road.
Damn all this talk of Dark conspiracy as made me want to play it again. Time to drag out the old books and find all my old disc. Guess the group will get to play a new game next week. :lol:

[Thorgrimm]

I have always like Dark Future games. By far the best is Cyberpunk. It's really just a character and combat system. In my experiance, it can be molded to what the GM and Players want. There are some ideas but with the basic book really nothing is set. No huge back ground with lot os pregenerated villians or NPC. Just a system and a start point.
My opinion take it or leave it.
Thanks,
Thorgrimm

[Webhead]

I have always like Dark Future games. By far the best is Cyberpunk. It's really just a character and combat system. In my experiance, it can be molded to what the GM and Players want. There are some ideas but with the basic book really nothing is set. No huge back ground with lot os pregenerated villians or NPC. Just a system and a start point.
My opinion take it or leave it.
Thanks,
Thorgrimm

Agreed. I like that about Cyberpunk 2020 as well. It takes the (very Cyberpunk-ish) attitude of: "Here's a game. Go play it."

[darelf]

My favorite is probably Witchcraft. Armageddon also, but low-power.

[Thorgrimm]

My favorite is probably Witchcraft. Armageddon also, but low-power.

Never heard of those games. I really like Cyberpunk because there is no magic or healing postions. If you get hurt you're hurt. Also when there is combat it's fast and fluid, none of the D&D trade blows until some one drops. I really like that you can turn Firday Night Fire Fight into table top game for beginners to learn the combat system.
I do like the idea behind Shadow Run but I've never played it.

[darelf]

Never heard of those games.

Imagine if (n)WoD games had a good, playable game system.... that would be Witchcraft. :D

(Actually, we were quite enjoying Scion - Hero, but I'm not sure that's exactly Horror/Dark Future)

[MortonStromgal]

Imagine if (n)WoD games had a good, playable game system.... that would be Witchcraft. :D




oooo thems fighting words, I like the unisystem and all but I'll stick to my dicepools over 1d10

[Webhead]

Never heard of those games. I really like Cyberpunk because there is no magic or healing postions. If you get hurt you're hurt. Also when there is combat it's fast and fluid, none of the D&D trade blows until some one drops. I really like that you can turn Firday Night Fire Fight into table top game for beginners to learn the combat system.

One of the things I liked about Cyberpunk 2020 that added a very cool, unique element to the combat: There's no dodging bullets.

Your reflex stat and your dodge skill were useless against being shot at. The enemy just has to beat the difficulty number. So, when somebody pulls out a gun, everybody runs for cover, even the big, tough combat-oriented characters. In 2020, cover is your friend.

[Webhead]

oooo thems fighting words, I like the unisystem and all but I'll stick to my dicepools over 1d10

I like both oWoD and Unisystem for their own reasons. I do think I like a lot of the ways Unisystem flows over WoD, especially Cinematic Unisystem, but oWoD is still a great game and still welcome at my table...mainly in the form of Mage: The Ascension.

[darelf]

I like both oWoD and Unisystem for their own reasons. I do think I like a lot of the ways Unisystem flows over WoD, especially Cinematic Unisystem, but oWoD is still a great game and still welcome at my table...mainly in the form of Mage: The Ascension.

TBH, I'm not sure I even remember what the differences are from the old to the new WoD rules. I really jumped into it around Exalted. I have vague recollections of playing V:TM but I was playing, not GMing, so the rules weren't that important.

I do prefer Uni because it's easier for me personally to wing it. But, like I said, we have really enjoyed Scion, so it ain't all bad.

[MortonStromgal]

TBH, I'm not sure I even remember what the differences are from the old to the new WoD rules. I really jumped into it around Exalted. I have vague recollections of playing V:TM but I was playing, not GMing, so the rules weren't that important.

I do prefer Uni because it's easier for me personally to wing it. But, like I said, we have really enjoyed Scion, so it ain't all bad.

oWOD combat

attribute+attack skill vs attribute+dodge (assuming the guy wants to dodge)
dodge is TN 6, attack TN is based on the weapon used see chart in book
count successes, if hit move on
success+damage dice vs TN 6
roll soak vs TN 6
apply any left over damage


nWOD combat

attribute+ attack skill + weapon - defense - armor vs TN 8
apply damage.



So basically the big difference between Uni and nWOD is 1d10 vs dice pool. Or if your using MET nWOD almost nothing because they use a card pull system where the values are = 1d10.


[edit] i feel like i kind of did oWOD an injustice there because combat is the part they really made faster with the changes the rest of the game had auto-successes and just attribute+skill vs TN tests which moved it along really quick and nWOD didn't speed those parts up at all (and in some cases slowed them down a bit, no auto-successes)

[Thorgrimm]

One of the things I liked about Cyberpunk 2020 that added a very cool, unique element to the combat: There's no dodging bullets.

Your reflex stat and your dodge skill were useless against being shot at. The enemy just has to beat the difficulty number. So, when somebody pulls out a gun, everybody runs for cover, even the big, tough combat-oriented characters. In 2020, cover is your friend.

Exactly, combat is dangerous to everyone and everyone is very capable of combat.

[Law Dog]

I really like Unknown Armies. Simple and flexible.

[Law Dog]

One of the things I liked about Cyberpunk 2020 that added a very cool, unique element to the combat: There's no dodging bullets.

Your reflex stat and your dodge skill were useless against being shot at. The enemy just has to beat the difficulty number. So, when somebody pulls out a gun, everybody runs for cover, even the big, tough combat-oriented characters. In 2020, cover is your friend.


Which is great if you're looking for something a little closer to reality. On the other hand, if you're trying to keep thing cinematic . . . :)

[Thorgrimm]

Which is great if you're looking for something a little closer to reality. On the other hand, if you're trying to keep thing cinematic . . . :)

The problem is most people don't really understand what the dice system is attempting to emulate. If you observe at how the d20 system looks and what it is supposed to do. From what I understand the system doesn't give a fixed number of attacks per round, it provides the number of attacks which have a chance to do damage. The more attacks the more opportunities that have a chance of doing damage. We've all been in hit and been hit but not hard enough to hurt.

The d20 system allows for cinematic but it's not obvious.

[Webhead]

Which is great if you're looking for something a little closer to reality. On the other hand, if you're trying to keep thing cinematic . . . :)

Yeah, that's one of the things that makes Cyberpunk what it is. You don't try the Rambo-style cinematic gusto in a Cyberpunk game. That kind of stuff gets you killed...fast.

Cyberpunk characters have a very real sense of their own mortality. I had a character get stabbed in the gut with a knife. As the attacker was running away, the rest of the party was applying pressure to the wound while they waited for the ambulance to show up...

One of the best pieces of basic equipment you can get in Cyberpunk is the Med-Alert Card. A little plastic card that has a button you can press to alert the nearest hospital to come get you. ;)

[boulet]

Which is great if you're looking for something a little closer to reality. On the other hand, if you're trying to keep thing cinematic . . . :)

I wonder if this is the explanation why almost no cyberpunk novel have been made into movies...

[Chavic]

I voted other, meaning Dark Heresy. The fluff and system looks great.

I am desperately looking for a Dark Heresy campaign in my area by the way. I'm a huge 40k fan and the rulebook for this game looks amazing. If anyone has a game or knows of one please contact me!
Thanks

[Stormcrow77]

Kult was a game that had a great concept. Very sim to the Hellrasier movies. But the rules, Gods! What a load of tripe.

[MortonStromgal]

But the rules, Gods! What a load of tripe.

That could be said of a lot of pre 2000 small press games. The quality of some of the small press these days is astounding (Burning Wheel, SOTC, etc)