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View Full Version : Starships of the Galaxy is out!



Inquisitor Tremayne
12-12-2007, 02:19 PM
I just called my local Borders store and they have it.

My copy is on hold till after work at which time I will read the crap out of it!!

Just FYI!!!

GBVenkman
12-13-2007, 12:01 AM
Dang, my borders is out of it.

Guess I'll have to order it. It'd be nice to have it before my saturday game.

Post your thoughts when you have the chance!

Inquisitor Tremayne
12-13-2007, 09:39 AM
I'm too ecstatic to post anything coherent right now but here it goes!

Holy Crap its awesome! There is a small section called stock ships that has 2 tables of stock ships and their stats. Need a ship on the fly? Simple reference the table and you are set! It serves the need of creating a custom ship or there are rules to build one from scratch! THe best thing to happen to the SWRPG starships in a long time!! My favorite part though is the re-introduction of BoSS!!!! That's right its back in all its glory and is super detailed! Landing protocols, required licenses, hyperspace transivers, how to track ships that have jumped to hyperspace, jamming sensors, how to use sensors to locate things, cloaking devices, I'm just rambling now... Everything you could want in a starships book is there except a new galaxy map and a gridded star map for minis combat. None of that stuff. There is just about every ship including ships from Legacy, there are a couple of templates to add to a ship; Archaic, Prototype, and I forget the other two. The only ship I wish was in it is the Lone Scout - A. But oh well.

I love it. The modifications section is awesome and soooo much better than it ever was. The Starship Manevuers work like Force Powers. You select a talent and you get 1 + your Wisdom modifier in maneuvers to use in ship combat. Pretty freaking awesome!

There is so much background detail on ALL of the ships listed as well as their alternate versions as well as a Tactical section for capital ships so that you can use them in a battle and they won't utterly destroy the PCs.

I could keep going on and on and on!

GBVenkman
12-14-2007, 12:16 AM
The Starship Manevuers work like Force Powers. You select a talent and you get 1 + your Wisdom modifier in maneuvers to use in ship combat. Pretty freaking awesome!

There is so much background detail on ALL of the ships listed as well as their alternate versions as well as a Tactical section for capital ships so that you can use them in a battle and they won't utterly destroy the PCs.

I could keep going on and on and on!

Cool

That's going to make Jedi pilots wet themselves.

pawsplay
12-18-2007, 03:02 AM
Some first thoughts:

Very nice, very complete, but still just a dip into the spaceships of Star Wars. Only one Yuuzhan Vong vessel is offered, which suits me fine, but that means the one is taking up space while not really offering a full set of Vong adversaries. Covers the Headhunter, three X-wings, all the major TIE variants, all the major Star Destroyer variants (including Republic dreadnaughts), and a couple of oddities like Maul's unique Sith Interceptor. Has some nice templates: used, Junker, Advanced, Archaic, Prototype.

The rules for customizing ships appear at first glance to be robust, although fairly simple.

You know what it doesn't have? An Armor Specialist equivalent for ship armor. But it does have some very nice new Talents, and some Maneuvers (which are used and refresh similarly to force powers). Includes notes for using normal Talents and feats in space combat.

The Noble engineer is still an oddity. Nobles qualify for Tech Specialist, but must be trained in Mechanics which is not a class skill. So multiclass Nobles get the most mileage out of that, but only if they have a feat, which means 3rd level to be trained in Mechanics, 4th to be a Tech Specialist. On the other hand, the dandy new Engineer Talent makes them trained in Mechanics and fast at designing stuff. However, since it requires Educated, that still means 3rd level or higher for a Noble Tech Specialist, and it still means Noble engineers have a certain role confusion, in that they are technical characters who are not trained in Mechanics for many levels. It's as if Engineer and Tech Specialist were included purely to taunt people who want to play a skilled engineer. To put it another way, it's hard to imagine a techie/scientist type character who is the one character who CANNOT repair stuff for the first three levels, then becomes the mechanical expert.

Also, I'm wondering why they didn't allow engineers to use Knowledge (technology) in place of Mechanics, making it the equal of the Jedi talents, or the Scoundrel talents Hotwire and Tracer.

GBVenkman
12-20-2007, 01:30 AM
there's a talent nobles can take that gives them training in mech. along with another perk in the talent trees. Not sure if you can take it first lvl though..

pawsplay
12-21-2007, 09:17 AM
You cannot. The Engineer Talent requires Educated.

GBVenkman
12-21-2007, 03:09 PM
Some first thoughts:

Very nice, very complete, but still just a dip into the spaceships of Star Wars. Only one Yuuzhan Vong vessel is offered, which suits me fine, but that means the one is taking up space while not really offering a full set of Vong adversaries. Covers the Headhunter, three X-wings, all the major TIE variants, all the major Star Destroyer variants (including Republic dreadnaughts), and a couple of oddities like Maul's unique Sith Interceptor. Has some nice templates: used, Junker, Advanced, Archaic, Prototype.

The rules for customizing ships appear at first glance to be robust, although fairly simple.

You know what it doesn't have? An Armor Specialist equivalent for ship armor. But it does have some very nice new Talents, and some Maneuvers (which are used and refresh similarly to force powers). Includes notes for using normal Talents and feats in space combat.

The Noble engineer is still an oddity. Nobles qualify for Tech Specialist, but must be trained in Mechanics which is not a class skill. So multiclass Nobles get the most mileage out of that, but only if they have a feat, which means 3rd level to be trained in Mechanics, 4th to be a Tech Specialist. On the other hand, the dandy new Engineer Talent makes them trained in Mechanics and fast at designing stuff. However, since it requires Educated, that still means 3rd level or higher for a Noble Tech Specialist, and it still means Noble engineers have a certain role confusion, in that they are technical characters who are not trained in Mechanics for many levels. It's as if Engineer and Tech Specialist were included purely to taunt people who want to play a skilled engineer. To put it another way, it's hard to imagine a techie/scientist type character who is the one character who CANNOT repair stuff for the first three levels, then becomes the mechanical expert.

Also, I'm wondering why they didn't allow engineers to use Knowledge (technology) in place of Mechanics, making it the equal of the Jedi talents, or the Scoundrel talents Hotwire and Tracer.

Yeah, I don't think that all makes much sense. If the noble is from such a privilaged life, you'd think she'd be able to take some university classes in engineering..

And it seems the noble is the most int. based class, so not having mech as a class skill is lame.

As a DM, it'd probably allow the character to take mech.. Mostly if a jedi can take it.

Inquisitor Tremayne
12-26-2007, 02:28 AM
Actually it does make sense. Disclaimer: I don't know a thing about engineering school.

But, it represents a noble who has been in an ivy league school studying engineering theroies and doing mathematics and what-not but nothing hands-on, no actual mechanical construction.

Which is how i view the Mechanics skill. Its a hands on skill. You don't make a Mechanics check to see what you know about fixing a computer. you use Knowledge (technology), you make a mechanics check to make the actual repair to the computer.

I don't have a problem with the levels needed for it. for one thing if you want a techie type character starting in the noble class is a poor choice to begin with scoundrel is much better.

GBVenkman
12-27-2007, 02:15 AM
Actually it does make sense. Disclaimer: I don't know a thing about engineering school.

But, it represents a noble who has been in an ivy league school studying engineering theroies and doing mathematics and what-not but nothing hands-on, no actual mechanical construction.

Which is how i view the Mechanics skill. Its a hands on skill. You don't make a Mechanics check to see what you know about fixing a computer. you use Knowledge (technology), you make a mechanics check to make the actual repair to the computer.

I don't have a problem with the levels needed for it. for one thing if you want a techie type character starting in the noble class is a poor choice to begin with scoundrel is much better.

I agree that a scoundrel is a better choice, but I'm all for house rule allowing nobles to take mech as a class skill.

My university is pretty hands on "learn by doing" type, so I'm comfertable with the notion that a Noble with a background (education) for engineering would be able to be considered "trained" for ship production. That doesn't stop the GM from making a large mech skill check if the player wants to design a star destroyer on his own. (I'd assume such a production would require a large team of scientists to produce.)

But that's the good thing about the game. Flexibility with house rules..

Inquisitor Tremayne
01-06-2008, 03:24 PM
I agree that a scoundrel is a better choice, but I'm all for house rule allowing nobles to take mech as a class skill.

My university is pretty hands on "learn by doing" type, so I'm comfertable with the notion that a Noble with a background (education) for engineering would be able to be considered "trained" for ship production. That doesn't stop the GM from making a large mech skill check if the player wants to design a star destroyer on his own. (I'd assume such a production would require a large team of scientists to produce.)

But that's the good thing about the game. Flexibility with house rules..


Right. But what we are talking about is a specific "noble". Generally speaking, maybe even stereotypically speaking, I don't see the rich and weathly getting their hands dirty. If you are and hands-on noble getting your hands dirty, you probably aren't starting your adventuring career as a noble, probably a scoundrel, maybe a scout if you really don't fit the mold. then second level thereafter take noble or whatever.


I should alos post a disclaimer that I am very much against house rules just to make things how they "should make sense". Like giving skills to classes when it isn't necessary. If this were the case soldiers would have a lot more skills. Especially the Fighter class in D&D, they should have a ton more skills. I have a very hard time believing a fighter never learned any tumbling skills. But I leave it how it is, its just a personal preference and I am unwilling to add rules for my personal tastes.

Except for my house rule thread!!:D

GBVenkman
01-11-2008, 04:45 PM
Right. But what we are talking about is a specific "noble". Generally speaking, maybe even stereotypically speaking, I don't see the rich and weathly getting their hands dirty. If you are and hands-on noble getting your hands dirty, you probably aren't starting your adventuring career as a noble, probably a scoundrel, maybe a scout if you really don't fit the mold. then second level thereafter take noble or whatever.


I should alos post a disclaimer that I am very much against house rules just to make things how they "should make sense". Like giving skills to classes when it isn't necessary. If this were the case soldiers would have a lot more skills. Especially the Fighter class in D&D, they should have a ton more skills. I have a very hard time believing a fighter never learned any tumbling skills. But I leave it how it is, its just a personal preference and I am unwilling to add rules for my personal tastes.

Except for my house rule thread!!:D


Eh, I thought the whole point of a game system is to map out the reality of that setting. Saga as a whole does this very well, but this I think is only one thing that doesn't make sense.


If the game is full of things that don't "make sense", then it's a bad game. That's why I don't play those silly card games :P

In dnd, you can cross train at a penalty, so I don't think that analogy really fits. besides that, I have little respect for how many of the DnD classes are written (they botched Samurai by basing it on a trading card game vs. historical/japanese mythology) so I have little reverence for illogical canon that was designed mearly for game balance.\


Edit:
As for the "Nobles don't know how to wipe their butt because they're yuppies who only read about that stuff"..

I doubt that the Mechanical Engineering Department at Cal Poly fits this description. There's multiple clubs and projects at my school where students design, BUILD, and compete in: solar powered cars, trackters, robotics, (modify) ford mustangs, and 4x4 kits (that's off the top of my head).

But yes, the writers of the rules think otherwise.

Inquisitor Tremayne
01-14-2008, 09:08 AM
From my understanding, working within the d20 system there needs to be some sort of "balance" between the classes. Part of this balance is in the skill selection that is available to different classes.

If we begin to give classes skills that we think they should have then there is no reason to have any classes at all because eventually every class will have access to all of the skills because lets face it, everyone should be able to do everything right? What about the Noble who spent her childhood trained as a gymnast? Shouldn't nobles have acrobatics then? What about Soldiers, they for sure should have acrobatics, etc. . .

When you blur the lines between the classes then there is only going to be one class choice, the one with the highest BAB.

Saga avoids this by making multi-classing incredibly viable. Is it really that game breaking or have that much impact on the overall enjoyment of the game if your noble can't select a feat/talent as soon as you possibly want your character to have it?

I think a better solution is to allow a character to select the Skill Training feat instead of a starting feat from a new class they multi-class into.