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GBVenkman
12-03-2007, 11:43 PM
The other night while DMing, I ran into a little scuffle over the rules with jedi powers and talents.

I had 2 NPCs firing blasters at a PC jedi when he took a reaction to each thug. The jedi successfully used the talent Deflect on one, and failed the other check as reactions.

He then wanted to use the force power absorb energy as a reaction to being hit.

I said no, since it's my view that you can only react once to any instant situation, like being fired at.

His view is that the 2nd reaction is to being actually phisically hit, and there's nothing in the book that says you can only react once.

To me though, as in the movies, it takes an effert to absorb the hit, as well as the action of absorbing it with your hand. I think it'd take about as much time and effort as physically trying to deflect with a saber. Thus there's no time to pull both reactions.

If the description of absorb energy had said "spontaneous" then I would've been cool with it.

Anyhow, what do you people think?

Skunkape
12-04-2007, 06:49 AM
Not knowing anything about the system, did you think about checking the forums over at Wizards? Heh provided you're talking about that version! I've found that when I'm curious about some rule in DnD, if I check the forums, most of the time someone has asked and gotten an answer.

Checking here is good too by the way, but I like to check as many different places as I can to get the best number of responses.

Now from a GM perspective with me not knowing those rules, it does sound to me like he would only be able to do one or the other. Hope you get your answer.

Inquisitor Tremayne
12-04-2007, 11:18 AM
The other night while DMing, I ran into a little scuffle over the rules with jedi powers and talents.

I had 2 NPCs firing blasters at a PC jedi when he took a reaction to each thug. The jedi successfully used the talent Deflect on one, and failed the other check as reactions.

He then wanted to use the force power absorb energy as a reaction to being hit.

I said no, since it's my view that you can only react once to any instant situation, like being fired at.

His view is that the 2nd reaction is to being actually phisically hit, and there's nothing in the book that says you can only react once.

To me though, as in the movies, it takes an effert to absorb the hit, as well as the action of absorbing it with your hand. I think it'd take about as much time and effort as physically trying to deflect with a saber. Thus there's no time to pull both reactions.

If the description of absorb energy had said "spontaneous" then I would've been cool with it.

Anyhow, what do you people think?

Like you said there is nothing in the book that says otherwise however I think it is a sound judgement call on your part to rule otherwise.

I look at it like this he was shot at twice. He made a reaction to negate the first shot. He also made a reaction to negate the second shot but failed. He then wants to take another reaction to negate the shot that he just reacted against. This is a stretch of the imagination to think at in a split second a character can react twice to the same action ESPECIALLY after they have already reacted to it in the first place. Follow me?

Now, there is nothing in the rules to say otherwise. So even if he does want to use Negate Energy I might let him knowing that the penalties from using deflect are still in affect against his Use the Force checks.

So on his second Deflect attack that failed he had a -5 to the roll. When he tries to use Negate Energy he will be at -10. The odds are against him and this might be why there isn't a rule against it.

GBVenkman
12-04-2007, 01:10 PM
Cool, thanks. That's about what my rational was. I'll check the wizard's forums though for something official.

Grinnen Baeritt
12-04-2007, 03:18 PM
I suppose it all depends upon how rational you want to be...

If both the NPC's are firing in the same round exactly simultaniously, then in theory the same power should also be able to effect both if they were firing from the same direction.

No I don't know the rules to the nth degree, but my ruling would be that the Jedi only gets the one chance because of the initiative system which allows all the aggressors to attack at exactly the same time.

Had they had individual initative then would the Jedi been able to react to all the incoming shots?

The problem arise because of the simplistic initiative system.

If you want to run with it then give the Jedi one chance but apply a penalty due to the number of shots he is attempting to affect.

If he succeeds then he does against ALL the shots, if he fails then he fails against them all.

Inquisitor Tremayne
12-04-2007, 03:31 PM
Its the nature of the Deflect talent that a Jedi is allowed a chance to deflect EVERY ranged attack that would otherwise hit said Jedi.

Its also assumed that (at least me as a GM run it this way) that even though you make a single roll for the bad guy's initiative they are still acting in order on that initiative. So in theory they are acting simultaneously but in order to determine the effects of things like talents they must be accounted for one at a time.

This is the reason why the Jedi we're (fairly easily) destroyed when their clones turned on them. A high level Jedi can deflect as many ranged attacks as they want in a single round but everytime they do so they gain another -5 to their Use the Force check to do so. Meaning eventually they are going to fail and get hit and then get killed.

The perfect example of this is in Episode III with Ki Adi Mundi on Mygeeto. He is leading the charge of clones across a bridge and his clones stop and fire at him. He attempts to block a few shots and does but is overwhelmed by fire and dies.

GBVenkman
12-05-2007, 01:06 PM
I treated each oppenent as acting on his own turn actually.

I rolled one initiative for both of them, but had them move and attack sepereatly, so I didn't require the Jedi to have a -5 to his deflect.

I mainly just need to see how the "reaction" system works.

Inquisitor Tremayne
01-26-2008, 04:06 PM
Did you ever make an informed ruling on this?

I will state my case again that on page 41 of the SECR it states that. "...you take a cumulative -5 penalty on your Use the Force check for every time you have used Block or Deflect since the begining of your last turn."

Its this wording that allows the talent Shii-Cho to be beneficial (pg 219.)

GBVenkman
01-27-2008, 02:12 AM
Yes, I got a response from the wizard's forums people. An actual dev replied to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kattan http://forums.gleemax.com/images/buttons/starwars/viewpost.gif (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14580279#post14580279)
Since the wording of a reaction is singular, they can only use one reaction to any given action. Block/deflect and negate energy are all the options open to a lightsaber wielder when attacked by an energy weapon, but due to the rulings that many before me have pointed out, you can't react more than once to any single event.

"For the record, this is correct; that's the biggest difference between a reaction and a free action.

You may only take one reaction to any given action. You may, however, react to multiple actions over the course of a round"

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14603162#post14603162

Inquisitor Tremayne
01-27-2008, 02:05 PM
Yes, I got a response from the wizard's forums people. An actual dev replied to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kattan http://forums.gleemax.com/images/buttons/starwars/viewpost.gif (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14580279#post14580279)
Since the wording of a reaction is singular, they can only use one reaction to any given action. Block/deflect and negate energy are all the options open to a lightsaber wielder when attacked by an energy weapon, but due to the rulings that many before me have pointed out, you can't react more than once to any single event.

"For the record, this is correct; that's the biggest difference between a reaction and a free action.

You may only take one reaction to any given action. You may, however, react to multiple actions over the course of a round"

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14603162#post14603162


Right! So your Jedi could react to being shot by using deflect, but if they fail that check they can not try to use negate energy as another reaction to that single shot.

GBVenkman
01-27-2008, 05:45 PM
Right! So your Jedi could react to being shot by using deflect, but if they fail that check they can not try to use negate energy as another reaction to that single shot.


Yep. I like being right :D