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PnP News Bot
11-21-2007, 01:32 PM
<table><tr><td valign="top"></td><td>Dungeons & Dragons Premium Dice (D&D Accessory) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html%3FASIN=0786948744%26tag=penandpaperg a-20%26lcode=xm2%26cID=2025%26ccmID=165953%26locatio n=/o/ASIN/0786948744%253FSubscriptionId=09CQH6MK86KXT0YR73G2 ) [Wizards of the Coast]
Release Date: 2008-07-15
Amazon Price: <strike>$12.95</strike> $10.36 as of 03/07/2008 09:41:44 AM PST
http://www.penandpapergames.com/images/amazon_buy.gif (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html%3FASIN=0786948744%26tag=penandpaperg a-20%26lcode=xm2%26cID=2025%26ccmID=165953%26locatio n=/o/ASIN/0786948744%253FSubscriptionId=09CQH6MK86KXT0YR73G2 )
Premium polyhedral dice for your D&D® game.

This roleplaying game accessory includes a complete set of official dice for your Dungeons & Dragons® game. Use these dice to help decide your fate as you battle fearsome monsters, explore ancient dungeons, and claim magnificent treasure.

This product contains a dice bag and a complete set of dice for use in the Dungeons & Dragons game: one 4-sided die, four 6-sided dice, one 8-sided die, one 10-sided die, one percentile die, one 12-sided die, and one 20-sided die.</td/</tr></table>

<HR>Price is accurate as of the date/time indicated. Prices and product availability are subject to change. Any price displayed on the Amazon website at the time of purchase will govern the sale of this product. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT SOME OF THE CONTENT THAT WE MAKE AVAILABLE TO YOU THROUGH THIS APPLICATION COMES FROM AMAZON WEB SERVICES. ALL SUCH CONTENT IS PROVIDED TO YOU "AS IS." THIS CONTENT AND YOUR USE OF IT ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AND/OR REMOVAL AT ANY TIME.<HR>

Shoukanjuu
08-24-2008, 12:07 AM
I got these dice from Amazon when I ordered my books. Recently, I read a comment to a blog post that, “Historically, dice put out by WotC and earlier by TSR were unbalanced c—.”

When I read that, I thought, “Oh, s—, are my dice…?” So, I’ve been doing a lot of rolling, and here are my results:

Start with the d4. In a perfect world, the average roll is 2.5, with a standard deviation of 1.12. I rolled mine 100 times, which gave an average roll of 2.51, with a standard deviation of 1.13.

Next, the 4 d6s. In a perfect world, the average roll is 3.5, with a standard deviation of 1.71. I rolled mine 150 times each, which gave average rolls of 3.43, 3.29, 3.52, and 3.63, with standard deviations of 1.68, 1.60, 1.71, and 1.74, respectively.

Then, the d8. In a perfect world, the average roll is 4.5, with a standard deviation of 2.29. I rolled mine 200 times, which gave an average roll of 4.68, with a standard deviation of 2.31.

Next, the 2 d10s. In a perfect world, the average roll is 5.5, with a standard deviation of 2.87. I rolled mine 250 times each, which gave average rolls of 5.56 and 5.66, with standard deviations of 2.73 and 2.91, respectively.

Then, the d12. In a perfect world, the average roll is 6.5, with a standard deviation of 3.45. I rolled mine 300 times, which gave an average roll of 6.20, with a standard deviation of 3.51 (I may need to test this one a bit more).

Finally, the d20. In a perfect world, the average roll is 10.5, with a standard deviation of 5.77. I rolled mine 500 times, which gave an average roll of 10.46, with a standard deviation of 5.96.

I was looking at the specific faces on the d20 that were rolling significantly above or below the average (in a perfect world, I would have rolled each number 25 times each), and interestingly, all the below average faces were in a band around the die (i.e., there were two hexagonal “caps” of 6 faces on opposite sides of the die that didn’t have any faces that had come up less then 25 times each). I rolled the d20 250 more times, and some of the high and low rolling faces averaged out, but some of them increased. Interestingly, the two lowest faces were exactly opposite each other (10 and 11), and the highest rolling face was adjacent to the lowest rolling face (17 and 10, at 56 and 21 out of 750 rolls. However, the new numbers give a total average roll of 10.51 (very close to the standard of 10.5 for d20s), but with a standard deviation of 5.95 (not nearly as close as the standard of 5.77 for d20s). Basically, I rolled more high and low numbers, then I did middle rage numbers. I think I may have to roll it a whole lot more, and see if this trend continues, or if all averages out over time…

Does anybody know, is there any organization or group that tests dice for balance and quality?

Chavic
08-27-2008, 10:44 PM
Holy crap...!!!

Thanks for all the work, tell me when your next batch of results come out.
Well it looks like the dice are close to their averages, which is the best we can hope for unless we can roll them an infinite amount of times.

I trust my dice a little more now, but why can't I roll a 20? lol

praksis
08-28-2008, 12:47 PM
Holy crap...!!!

Thanks for all the work, tell me when your next batch of results come out.
Well it looks like the dice are close to their averages, which is the best we can hope for unless we can roll them an infinite amount of times.

I trust my dice a little more now, but why can't I roll a 20? lol


I must second that, wow! You sir are truely dedicated to statistics.

and as for dice, they are semi-intelligent constructs who have likes and dislikes of particular people. For instance, they will perform in a true random fasion for the dedicated statitian, but I can make a die roll the exact opposite of what's best simply by being in the general area. Cruel little buggers they are.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
08-28-2008, 07:23 PM
You're hard-core, Shoukanjuu. You got my respect.

Thoth-Amon

Chavic
08-29-2008, 10:49 AM
and as for dice, they are semi-intelligent constructs who have likes and dislikes of particular people. For instance, they will perform in a true random fasion for the dedicated statitian, but I can make a die roll the exact opposite of what's best simply by being in the general area. Cruel little buggers they are.

Damn dice! oh I hope they didn't hear me....

tesral
08-31-2008, 02:15 AM
An easier way to do that is to measure the sides of the dice with a micrometer. The truer the sides, the fairer the dice. Most gaming dice are from 3 to 5 thousandths out of true at the least. I have found those as much as 20 thousandths out as not uncommon. For comparison the d6s used in casinos are within 1 thousandths, verified by myself with my own tools.

Other than good manufacturing quality (which I will not dispute) anything special about the looks?

cplmac
09-04-2008, 07:03 PM
Wow, how long did it take to do all that rolling and figuring?

Shoukanjuu
09-05-2008, 11:53 AM
Other than good manufacturing quality (which I will not dispute) anything special about the looks?

Well, they dark blue: somewhere between a royal blue and midnight blue (but I wouldn't call it navy blue, either), with a pattern/quality that I would call "mother of pearl". Unlike some styles that I have seen, the variation in the pattern/coloring doesn't impact the readability of the dice, either. While I don't know what "premium" dice should really look like, I can at least say that these at least don't look chintzy.


Wow, how long did it take to do all that rolling and figuring?

Um, I probably spent a couple of hours rolling dice, while listening to podcasts. Actually, I'm going to do another, smaller batch, with this online calculator that I found, that tells you if your results are in line with your expectations (it requires a minimum of 5 data points per possible outcome, so that would be a lot less then I used before—unfortunately, I didn't save all my data from before, just the calculated results).

DeathByDM
09-09-2008, 02:40 PM
Buying officially licensed dice is like wiping your behind with your money.

Dice are dice, buy the cheapest you can find in a color that you think looks cool.

Shoot, from what I hear these don't even have standard fonts across the dice.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
09-09-2008, 03:01 PM
Dice are dice are dice, in my book. But, in all fairness, some of my fellow players would completely disagree with me... so each his own.

We all have our own unique idiocyncracies, myself included. Yep, i'm speaking from my glass house... not giving anyone reason to throw rocks. LOL

Thoth-Amon

tesral
09-09-2008, 04:44 PM
Dice are dice are dice, in my book. But, in all fairness, some of my fellow players would completely disagree with me... so each his own.

We all have our own unique idiocyncracies, myself included. Yep, i'm speaking from my glass house... not giving anyone reason to throw rocks. LOL

Thoth-Amon

Diiiiiicccce.... (drool, drool)

Yea, I'm a dice bunny. I like my dice.

DeathByDM
09-10-2008, 06:26 AM
I like dice too, but in this case, you're paying premium money for sub-par blue dice.

Shoukanjuu
09-10-2008, 09:42 PM
Dice are dice, buy the cheapest you can find in a color that you think looks cool.

Shoot, from what I hear these don't even have standard fonts across the dice.

To the first point: since the cost of transporting myself to the nearest hobby shop would outweigh any savings to be gained... (I got the dice with books ordered from Amazon, so no shipping cost). Why is stuff like that always in the suburbs?

And to the second point: Standard fonts? I never would have even thought to look, but you're quite right. I really can't imagine why they would even do that...

tesral
09-10-2008, 10:37 PM
And to the second point: Standard fonts? I never would have even thought to look, but you're quite right. I really can't imagine why they would even do that...

Style? Don't know haven't seen a set.

DeathByDM
09-11-2008, 02:08 PM
Here's a quote from William K.'s Amazon review of this item:
"This new set has three different number ones on them. On most of the dice there is the straight up and down "bar" which I prefer, and then the four sided dice has a one with a little flag at the top. The 12 sided dice has several numbers different from the rest of the set. The number ones on it have the flag and the serif at the bottom. The numbers should have all been consistent to make a perfect set."

10 inconsistent blue dice and a (admittedly nice) bag for $10-13 (possibly + shipping)

If you are buying it for the bag it may be worth it, but the dice are not. You can buy a MATCHING set of 7 blue dice on Chessex for 3.50 and a box of 12 d6s for 3.50.

On EBay you can get dice for even cheaper. I got a great-looking set of gold dice on there for under $5.

Stormcrow77
09-17-2008, 11:03 PM
Hi im Stormcrow77 and im a dice junkie.
I used to not beable to walk into a game store without bying a set of dice. I have hundreds.

Then a little more then 3 years ago i went to a local comic shop on break from jury duty and came across crystal castes metal dice and right then and there i pulled out my credit card and bought them. I have never used anything else since. i love them.
For those of you who dont know Crystal caste makes dice from lots of diffrent things like meteorite ,bone ,silver and gold.
They are a bit $$$ but i can not say enough good things about them.

Hers a link to the ones i have.
http://crystalcaste.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=02514&Category_Code=DM

kirksmithicus
09-18-2008, 01:04 AM
I wonder if I could get them to make some dice out the Alibates Agatized Dolomite I have?

I'm into flint knapping and I've made a lot of points out of obsidian but never thought to make dice out of them, the snow flake obsidian dice are sweet.

I think I just might become a dice junky.

DeathByDM
09-18-2008, 08:14 AM
Wow those are really cool. I think I might plunk down some money on one of these sets. Right now, I'm using a gold-colored set I got off of ebay which I absolutely love, but metal dice? Bone dice? How sweet is that?

DeathByDM
09-18-2008, 08:20 AM
OK I'm looking at the Brass dice and it says "A complete 7 piece set of metal fantasy dice with a brass look."
Does that mean they are plastic and just painted to look like brass or are they real brass?

Stormcrow77
09-18-2008, 08:44 AM
There steel with a "brass" look the copper dice are like this as well.
I think this is becuse brass and copper are softer metals .

Farcaster
09-18-2008, 10:41 AM
I have a set of the Brass Metal dice myself, and I love em. Be careful though, because they come in different sizes and might be smaller than you imagine. I wanted standard size dice at 16mm. Although, I am considering picking up a set of the silver plated dice at 14mm. They're a bit pricey though, so that's a tough sell to the wife.

Stormcrow77
09-18-2008, 10:50 AM
They're a bit pricey though, so that's a tough sell to the wife.
Yeah, My wife (at the time) and i got into quite the "verbal discussion" when i came home that day and she found out how much i spent on them.

kirksmithicus
09-22-2008, 05:20 PM
I've put in a request for Christmas. I would also love the large d20, man I bet that thing is heavy. You could get a pair of the brass ones and be all set.

Stormcrow77
09-23-2008, 11:20 AM
a pair of the brass ones

Well said.
thats definatly what these dice do.

placebosonly
12-05-2008, 01:14 AM
look up gaming science on youtube you should see 2 ten minute videos pop up that explain what is a good random die and what isnt

Dark
12-18-2008, 05:41 PM
On my list of things to get thanks for the information. :cool:

cigamnogard
04-24-2009, 05:28 PM
I love rolling a mitt full of dice!

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-24-2009, 05:40 PM
There is something meditative about rolling dice while gaming.

cigamnogard
04-24-2009, 06:20 PM
Or stacking dice

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-24-2009, 07:18 PM
There is that, too.

Lucian-Sunaka
04-26-2009, 02:15 PM
I'm in love with the idea of the meteorite ones, but there are two problems. 1: The price!!! and 2: they don't sell a whole set and I would want an entire set. (of course maybe I actually shouldn't have them lol, Imagine what I might do to a really really really stupid player if I had a set of those in my dicebag. OUCH!)

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-26-2009, 02:28 PM
What are these meteor dice you speak of? Link to pic, please.

Lucian-Sunaka
04-26-2009, 03:56 PM
First...

http://penandpapergames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=47267&postcount=17

the post that linked to the site and discussed them.

Second...

D20 http://crystalcaste.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=02152T16&Category_Code=XS

D6 http://crystalcaste.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=02152S&Category_Code=XS


As I said, I'd love to have a whole set of them, but the price is crazy, one full set would cost about 1,000$ if they carried them, and they don't.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-26-2009, 04:01 PM
They are very cool, if not a bit out of my price range. Thanks for posting pics.

Windstar
04-26-2009, 08:37 PM
I have a set of these, they are great, and thanks for all the stats, never would have believe someone would actually test dice. Hardcore.....

cigamnogard
04-30-2009, 05:16 PM
Very hardcore!

DragonmagRT
05-02-2009, 12:00 PM
I am not very impressed at how the premium dice looked. I am an old school gamer and believe very much in dice karma and not letting anyone else touch my dice. My mentor always had a thing of coming to the gaming table and plopping his supermarket bag full of dice down in the middle of the table. It is an interesting way to intimidate the newcomers.

Wulvaine
08-06-2009, 04:18 AM
I want the Dwarven Metal set from Crystal Caste. Those are some very sexy dice. And they probably have some very satisfying weight to them.

(I am a dice junkie. I own more than I ought to already and I don't intend to stop buying them.)

prinnycook
08-06-2009, 03:38 PM
I am a old school gamer with a very extreme method to dice. I name them, polish and clean them, rotate them within my dice bag(I have an original leather red TSR bag), and will not roll the same one too many times in a row(the other dice will get jealous). Many of my dice are Crystal Caste and I do own a full set of meteorite dice. I am a DICE FREAK!!!!!!!

Tamburlain
08-15-2009, 04:26 PM
I am a old school gamer with a very extreme method to dice. I name them, polish and clean them, rotate them within my dice bag(I have an original leather red TSR bag), and will not roll the same one too many times in a row(the other dice will get jealous). Many of my dice are Crystal Caste and I do own a full set of meteorite dice. I am a DICE FREAK!!!!!!!

Prinny, you have an entire set of meteorite polyhedrals?? I thought they only came in d20 and d6. That's very cool.

In fact, the meteorite d6 is about the coolest gaming accoutrement I've ever laid eyes upon. But if I ever spent $100 on a single die, meteorite or not, my wife would send both of us back into space.

thomaswhodoubts
08-17-2009, 12:25 AM
Dice made by committee?

I do love my dice, but with all the great options out there, why give WOTC more money, when you can support the little guys - Chessex, G2 Collectibles and Hobbies, and, of course, your friendly neighborhood gaming store - although for me the latter is at least an hour drive away.
(http://stores.ebay.com/id=15728326&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSX:SST)

korhal23
08-17-2009, 10:55 AM
I have multiple sets of Chessex dice, but I also use the Dungeons and Dragons Premium dice. They are extremely well balanced (I've tested them), they're durable, they came in a sweet little bag, I'm happy with them.

LOL at the needless WotC hate.

Oh and I bought them at my local gaming store. However my local gaming store blows, and I try to support them as little as possible.

Deadone
08-17-2009, 12:14 PM
dice made by committee?

I do love my dice, but with all the great options out there, why give wotc more money, when you can support the little guys - chessex, g2 collectibles and hobbies, and, of course, your friendly neighborhood gaming store - although for me the latter is at least an hour drive away.
(http://stores.ebay.com/id=15728326&sspagename=strk:mefsx:sst)

qft

emblasochist
08-17-2009, 12:25 PM
Dice made by committee?

I do love my dice, but with all the great options out there, why give WOTC more money, when you can support the little guys - Chessex, G2 Collectibles and Hobbies, and, of course, your friendly neighborhood gaming store - although for me the latter is at least an hour drive away.
(http://stores.ebay.com/id=15728326&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSX:SST)

If I knew where my nearest game shop was, I might consider taking a ride up to it... But I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that chessex will have made the dice they sell, and for the time being, I have enough dice to support my gaming... (Blasphemy, I know, but I play one character at a time and I DO have 10 sets of chessex dice, plus a zocchi, and two sets of the WotC Premium dice)

prinnycook
08-18-2009, 06:59 AM
Prinny, you have an entire set of meteorite polyhedrals?? I thought they only came in d20 and d6. That's very cool.

In fact, the meteorite d6 is about the coolest gaming accoutrement I've ever laid eyes upon. But if I ever spent $100 on a single die, meteorite or not, my wife would send both of us back into space.

The meteorite dice are not new, they have been making them for years. I bought them about 7 or 8 years ago when the only way you can get them was in sets. They are not very big, they are pretty small but I did pay a lot. Not saying how much because it is crazy.

thomaswhodoubts
06-01-2010, 01:43 PM
Like $200 crazy? Just curious.

ironface
06-20-2010, 03:21 AM
Supposedly the best RPG dice you can buy on the market is the ones made by Louis Zocchi( of so he says). He dose seem to know what he's talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR2fxoNHIuU

As to the highest quality dice you can buy are D6's for professional gambling.

tesral
06-20-2010, 08:18 AM
Loi us a tad of the,,,interesting side. Now, his dice are accurately made. Better than the average gaming dice. Measurement has shown that. I took my verniers to the lot.

Yes the d6 used by casinos are the best. But the things are expensive and only come in d6. Unless you plan to play Shadowrun or WEG Star Wars very accurately random the rest of your days, you need more than d6.

ironface
06-21-2010, 05:19 AM
Yes the d6 used by casinos are the best. But the things are expensive and only come in d6.

Just depend who are where you buy. I've found a set of five D6's for as s low as $5 bucks a box.



Unless you plan to play Shadowrun or WEG Star Wars very accurately random the rest of your days, you need more than d6

I prefer using various dice as well, but if I had to choose only one it would always be a D6. You can apply it to almost any forms of randomization ( or at least the ones necessary to play a RPG) and it's the one dice you can get anywhere in the world. I would probably switch to using Opend6 for my game mechanics if there were more players willing to do so.