Finding New Pen & Paper Games

[Mulsiphix]

I was introduced to BattleTech ten years ago. I played for a few months, my friend who owned all the materials moved away, and I stopped playing. My wife and I have purchased much for BattleTech and enjoy playing as often during the week as possible (3 to 6 times per week on avg). We're very interested in learning about other Pen & Paper games though but such information is pretty hard to find. Is there any kind of listing somewhere that chronicles all of the known pen and paper games that were actually published? We're not interested in any internet only releases.

We know many of the major games like Warhammer/40K, D&D, the entire FASA line, Star Wars, and World of Darkness. What lesser known gems are out there that are worth looking up? Any information would be most appreciated.

[Jazz]

I've run into D&D, D20 Modern (same system, but in a modern setting), the Star Wars D20 game, some Ravenloft (I have the material, but never got into it for lack of a group who played it), a game called Dead Lands: Weird West, and a new friend of mine is introducing me into a game called WitchCraft.

Oh, and I'm wanting to look into spy games like SpyCraft or something similar. Ever since I snagged the episodes from the original 1960's Mission Impossible television show, I've been dying to see how such tales of intrigue and elaborate deceptions would fit into a role-playing game.

At any rate, welcome to PnP.

[fmitchell]

This is a perennial thread; maybe it should be a faq.

There's a huge listing at http://index.rpg.net/, and another at http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php .

If you want personal recommendations, I'd suggest the following:

Spirit of the Century (http://www.evilhat.com/home/?page_id=103): a small press game set in the Pulp era, with some of the fastest and lightest game mechanics out there. I'm in a campaign now, and literally only one die roll stands between an intended action and its resolution.

RuneQuest (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/series.php?qsSeries=39): A fantasy RPG only a few years younger than D&D which stands the test of time much better; its percentile dice mechanics are much more straightforward than D&D. Its current publishers, Mongoose Games, seem intent on nickel-and-diming you to death with slim hardback books, particularly on its default setting Glorantha, but if you've already got a setting in mind, translating to the RuneQuest system should be fairly simple. Mongoose also publishes alternate settings based on Moorcock's "Elric" and "Hawkmoon" series, and Fritz Leiber's "Nehwon" series.

Call of Cthulhu (http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=359): A horror game based on the works of H. P. Lovecraft and his friends/imitators, CoC uses a lighter version of the RuneQuest percentile skill system. (Chaosium plans to come out with a "generic" version of their system called Basic Roleplaying, but as Chaosium is now only four guys keeping the company alive out of sheer willpower, the promised book may be slow in coming.)

GURPS (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/): one of the first, if not the first, "generic" role-playing systems, it can mimic just about every genre, although in my opinion it does best with capable humans or low-powered superhumans. Currently in its fourth edition, it offers "genre" splatbooks for Fantasy, Space, and Infinite Worlds (parallel universes, alternate histories, and time travel), as well as full game worlds like Traveller's Imperium or the "Banestorm" fantasy world. Third Edition books are still available, and even if you don't play GURPS at all they're valuable introductions for settings in, for example, ancient Egypt, the planet Mars in fact and fiction, or 1950's style sci-fi horror movies.

Having said the above, there's also some good free and PDF-only games out there. Some of them you can even get as hard copies from Lulu.com or Indie Press Revolution. Examples include The Zorceror of Zo, Truth and Justice, and the "Wushu" system, all available from http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/

[fmitchell]

Actually, the deja vu is really kicking in, so let me ask the original poster (or anyone else)


What did you like about BattleTech (or whatever)?

What did you dislike about BattleTech (or whatever)?

What do you enjoy about RPGs in general?

[Mulsiphix]

fmitchell I greatly appreciate you taking the time to respond in detail. As for the questions in your last post:

1. What did you like about BattleTech (or whatever)?
I enjoy many things about BattleTech. I enjoy the fact that you can play with a GM or just as a stand alone strategy game. Its awesome that so many quality scenario packs were released and the 63 novels really help bring the universe alive.

In the end I truly appreciate that it is something that takes a while to play. Far to many games are heavy on strategy but are far to short, like your average Magic The Gathering card game. Even worse are the games that take a very long time to play but lose the factors that made them fun about halfway through the game. The rest of the time is usually one player waiting for the other to completely crush them with little chance of them being able to make a comeback (monopoly is a perfect example in my opinion). BattleTech is very much like Magic The Gathering. Even when things look the most grim and you figure your down and out... BAM!!! you have a great turn that totally puts you back in the game. Games that truly give all players involved the sense of "It's Never Over Until It's Over" are my favorite cup of tea.

BattleTech does all of this and with such grace. Rarely do I play a game of BattleTech and feel cheated out of my time. The fact it was going for 16 years doesn't hurt it either. There were so many products released for it the universe is really fleshed out. Once you run out of material, something that would take years in and of itself, the universe is open enough that you could create infinite scenarios and campaigns until the day you die.

The hardest thing I've found with getting into other PnP's is that a GM/DM is required to be able to truly enjoy the game. Games that don't require a GM but allow for skirmishes without a story are usually too basic for my tastes. Good examples of this would be Warhammer, Warhammer 40K, and Vor The Maelstrom.

2. What did you dislike about BattleTech (or whatever)?
Not much. Only complaint I have is that I don't have any friends, beyond my wife of course, that play the game. When I was introduced to it I played with 3 to 4 other people which made the battles even more strategic. I guess the fact that its not made by FASA kind of sucks because I enjoy their work so much but it has been picked up again by a new company. Since Catalyst has updated the FASA rules I haven't paid their BattleTech product lineup much attention. No plan to anytime soon since FASA produced 130+ games and suppliments for BattleTech alone.

3. What do you enjoy about RPGs in general?
Being sucked into a universe that is different from my own. I don't feel the need to escape the universe I am in but visits to other places are very nice indeed. I love being moved by a story, but I enjoy being able to affect that story even more. Growing up I was a huge console gamer and RPG's were my favorite genre. The problem with videogames is you can only choose the paths that the creators have set aside for you to follow. You can only be spontaneous in ways that the programmers have anticipated you might want to be.

In PnP nothing is for certain and the story changes completely based on the decisions and choices you make. In the end I always end up playing videogame RPG's alone as they are long and most people don't enjoy watching me level endlessly with multiple hour or even entire day long gaps in between storyline progression. I was a loner growing up, still very much am, but I really enjoy the social aspect of PnP gaming.

[Skunkape]

RuneQuest (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/series.php?qsSeries=39): A fantasy RPG only a few years younger than D&D which stands the test of time much better; its percentile dice mechanics are much more straightforward than D&D. Its current publishers, Mongoose Games, seem intent on nickel-and-diming you to death with slim hardback books, particularly on its default setting Glorantha, but if you've already got a setting in mind, translating to the RuneQuest system should be fairly simple. Mongoose also publishes alternate settings based on Moorcock's "Elric" and "Hawkmoon" series, and Fritz Leiber's "Nehwon" series.

I do like RuneQuest and I think they've done a good job with their recent, update of the rules, but I have to agree with you there fmitchell, it does appear that they are looking to nickel-and-dime you with all the books they're coming out with. Course, I only needed the Deluxe book, because I have my own setting, I don't really like most of the magic systems they use, I really like the DnD monsters better and the only other book I'm really looking at getting from them is the equipment book.

Most everything else I'll be using will need to be converted by me to the RQ system. Good thing I'm not running a campaign using RQ for another year or more!:D

[Moritz]

Oh, and I'm wanting to look into spy games like SpyCraft or something similar. Ever since I snagged the episodes from the original 1960's Mission Impossible television show, I've been dying to see how such tales of intrigue and elaborate deceptions would fit into a role-playing game.


For additional source material, check a book called "Danger International" put out for the Hero System. It's just a lot of good information in regards to spy and espionage type games.

[jade von delioch]

i would check out gaming companies and see if they have free quick start rules.
Check out The chronicles of Ramlar, the company has quick start rules and the game is fairly simple and easy to learn.

[fmitchell]

I do like RuneQuest and I think they've done a good job with their recent, update of the rules, but I have to agree with you there fmitchell, it does appear that they are looking to nickel-and-dime you with all the books they're coming out with. Course, I only needed the Deluxe book, because I have my own setting, I don't really like most of the magic systems they use, I really like the DnD monsters better and the only other book I'm really looking at getting from them is the equipment book.

Even the Deluxe book is a bit of overkill: the core book should be sufficient EXCEPT they released some updates to the rules which the Deluxe book contains (although I haven't verified), but the old core book doesn't.

Arms and Equipment is OK, especially since it gives stats for everything from stone-age weapons to gunpowder, and katanas to clockwork. However, since I own a bunch of GURPS books, I still wonder if I wouldn't have been better off converting bits I needed from GURPS. Then again, I tend to be long on cash and short on time.

If you want to go the ultra-cheap route, you can download the RuneQuest SRD off Mongoose's site. The SRD lacks some details -- e.g. what a Rune Priest or Rune Lord is, and many examples -- but at least it's free, and up to date. In my copious free time I'm thinking of putting together my own RuneQuest player's pack with just the parts of the SRD I'm using, plus bits I glom on for the game I'm always planning to run someday.

[Skunkape]

If you want to go the ultra-cheap route, you can download the RuneQuest SRD off Mongoose's site. The SRD lacks some details -- e.g. what a Rune Priest or Rune Lord is, and many examples -- but at least it's free, and up to date. In my copious free time I'm thinking of putting together my own RuneQuest player's pack with just the parts of the SRD I'm using, plus bits I glom on for the game I'm always planning to run someday.

Yeah, I grabbed those before deciding if I wanted to buy the Deluxe book. Since I don't own the original core, I can't tell you for sure if there is much difference between the two. As far as a player's pack, I'm working on something similar.

My only worry is that whatever house rules I'm adding will be balanced with the rest of the game! Course, I'm sure my players will let me know and we'll just have to playtest during the campaign till I get them right!:D

[jade von delioch]

i found some interesting new games out there at have quick start rules. check it out, they have three different games.
http://www.indarkalleys.com/

[jade von delioch]

http://www.gunmage-rpg.com/downloads.htm

check it out its in beta.

[Mulsiphix]

I bookmarked the other link you gave me but completely forgot about it :(. I'll check both of these out right now. Thanks so much for the linkage ^_^

[jade von delioch]

heres another one i found will looking for some kind of xmas present.

http://www.newdarkage.net/synopsis.html

[jade von delioch]

theres another one i found for you Scifi people, looks pretty good and is free: called ICAR. http://www.icar.co.uk/

[Anaesthesia]

One I've played a few times is Toons. I'm dying to get my hands on the any of the books, as one of them has a section called "Dungeons and Toons" The whole thing with Toons is that you're a cartoon character, you can't die (just unconcious for a few), and you get to pull out something from your back pocket (ie a hammer). I GM'd one session where the party had to rescue the moon from Marvin the Martian. (They were also sent by Duck Dodgers of the 21st and 1/2 century). See here- http://dreamers.com/lichlair/toon/tooneng.htm and http://www.sjgames.com/toon/

Others that I can think of off the top of my head are(but never played)-

Dark Sun (Fantasy-similar to DnD, but from what I remember off hand, you needed AD&D manuals to play it)

Shatterzone (Scifi)

[rabkala]

Dark Sun (Fantasy-similar to DnD, but from what I remember off hand, you needed AD&D manuals to play it)


Darksun was a short lived D&D 2e setting. It was famous for an emphasis on psionics, being very deadly, and its 'character tree' (because it was so deadly).

[Olothfaern]

Darksun was a short lived D&D 2e setting. It was famous for an emphasis on psionics, being very deadly, and its 'character tree' (because it was so deadly).

I still use character trees when I DM, to offset the predictable results of a combination of videogaming, planlessness, and invincibility that players seem to bring to the table now-a-days.

[nijineko]

for the battletech junkie, download megamek (a seriously well done java based battletech emulator). it duplicates the tabletop game almost perfectly. (no spills!) there is a dedicated community who plays versus each other on a daily basis. can be used as single play, multi-play, or even online!

[Anaesthesia]

Another one I thought of is Mage Knight. I've read one of the "tie-in" novels, but never played-seemed interesting enough to play.

I saw a manual some months ago (I wish I bought it, but the store was selling the book for $10 more than it's cover price. :( ), for Evil Dead the RPG. Has anyone played it?

[Mulsiphix]

for the battletech junkie, download megamek (a seriously well done java based battletech emulator). it duplicates the tabletop game almost perfectly. (no spills!) there is a dedicated community who plays versus each other on a daily basis. can be used as single play, multi-play, or even online!I can't stand MegaMek. The software is pretty unstable from my experience, which was a couple months ago. I've tested it every six to eight months since it began and I've never been super impressed. While it is hands down the most robust, successful, and supported BattleTech online game client, I can't stand how fast it makes the games. BattleTech is a real strategy game that takes time and patience. It is a game that is definitely improved, in my opinion, with real life interaction. Playing it online is nothing like in real life and what would normally be a 6-8+ hour game is condensed to 30min - 90min experience. Worthwhile alternatives for an online BattleTech experiences include: BattleTech Online (http://www.battletechonline.com/), Btech-Online Battletech MUX (http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=128056), Battlech: The Frontier (http://www.mudmagic.com/listings/game/1401/), Neveron (http://www.neveron.com/), and soon Succession Wars (http://successionwars.com/cin/portal.php).

[nijineko]

thanks! i'll have to poke around those links. i've never had any trouble with megamek, but then i've only tested it on my computer, and not online. so i bow to your superior experience in that area. ^^

[Mulsiphix]

Another thing I dislike about MegaMek online is that it no longer is about the original BattleTech. Catalyst Games currently produces content under the BattleTech license called Classic BattleTech. They recently, 08/2006 I believe, created Total Warfare which is a new master rulebook. It includes several changes to the BattleTech rule system that supposedly makes the game more realistic and balanced. I personally don't care much for the changes as I never thought there was a problem with the old rule system.

The last BMR (BattleTech Master Rules) only version to be released was v0.30.0, released on 10/04/2006. All releases after this have started to incorporate the Total Warfare rules. Development will be done on the Total Warfare rules set, and BMR rules, where different, will be converted over. Those sections of the rules that do not currently have a new version available, artillery for example, will be left in place until the suitable replacement rules have been published. So for those of you wishing to play with the BMR only rules make sure you use v.0.30.0. For everybody else, use the latest stable version.

[jade von delioch]

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=23334&it=1&filters=100_0_0&free=1

[Mulsiphix]

Jade, or anybody for that matter, have you tried Broken Gears? Any idea what game system is resembles? I've just come across Heavy Gear and am quite taken with it. Looks like there might be a delicious alternative to BattleTech that I was never aware of (not that I'll play BattleTech any less). The art reminds me of the Japanese version of BattleTech. Everything looks very Anime and is reminiscent of Metal Slug art.

[jade von delioch]

never played broken gears..... i have a friend who likes Dream pod 9 though.

[nijineko]

metal slug, now there was a fun set of games!

[Mulsiphix]

Nothing else like it. The art has to be my favorite video game art of all time. The art of DragonMech reminds me greatly of it as well, especially the character art.

[nijineko]

my favorite parts were how the characters reacted to what you did or didn't do. growing fat from eating too much food, and some of the other little things that made it hilarious. you know, the stuff you laughed too hard to play the game and your guy got killed stuff. ^^

[Mulsiphix]

I loved being a Zombie and vomiting blood across the screen to smite my enemies. Getting fat and your weapon ammo getting fat and more powerful was a classic. I loved the idle animations and how the enemies reacted to certain events like a building following down or you coming through a wall in a tank :D. SNK I salute you :cool:

[nijineko]

ah, sweet nostalgia. (which, incidentally, in japanese is said 'natsukashii'.) =D

[ffclubhero]

Loads of PnP games can be found here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/newuser.php

Reviews, descriptions, etc.

[jade von delioch]

i don't see any rpgs here; most card and board games.

[Mulsiphix]

I found a few on that website but none that I've ever heard of before, and all of them are wargames.

[ffclubhero]

Oops. I define 'pen and paper' perhaps a bit differently, i.e., I include a wider variety of games, other then simply rpg. If rpg is what we're defining as pnp, then I do apologize, cuz there are not a whole lot there. And what is listed seems to be OOP. There are a few mini & wargames, but mostly card/board/tile games. Sorry for any confusion. :o

[Mulsiphix]

Hey no worries. There aren't to many wargamers here. Most of the ancients here are D&D fans from LONG ago :p.

[tesral]

Hey no worries. There aren't to many wargamers here. Most of the ancients here are D&D fans from LONG ago :p.

Watch it there kiddy. :)

[Mulsiphix]

It was a compliment oh Ancient one. *bows before you with great respect* Please forgive the brief lapse in social grace I suffered when speaking of your most educated and exalted gaming veteran-ness.

[jade von delioch]

heres a few that i just found:


http://www.1km1kt.net/rpg/Nameless.pdf

http://claymore.50megs.com/

http://www.forgottenfutures.com/

http://vodgerpg.com/

http://www.squidoo.com/risus

and for those of you who love final fantasy there a Pen and paper game out there for you; its really well put together. trust me:
http://www.returnergames.com/complete.html

[jade von delioch]

http://www.berengad.com/public/anima_prime_alpha.pdf

[Webhead]

For those interested in exploring other game systems, here's a couple of my favorites or games I hear good things about:

Rules-Lite Games: Spirit of the Century, Risus, Wushu, Zorcerer of Zo, Truth and Justice

Rules-Medium Games: Call of Cthulhu, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Star Wars (the edition published by West End Games, not the d20 version), Savage Worlds, Warhammer Fantasy RPG

Rules-Heavy Games: Shadowrun, Mutants & Masterminds, Deadlands

[jade von delioch]

never seen shadowrun as rules heavy.. Rolemaster is though

[Webhead]

never seen shadowrun as rules heavy.. Rolemaster is though

The only edition of Shadowrun I ever played was 3rd edition and it definately felt very heavy on the rules. It ended up being so rules-intensive that I filed it in the "I'll play it, but I'm not gonna run it" pile and eventually sold my books. It's a shame because I love the universe. I've heard the 2nd edition of Shadowrun is generally regarded as the best. Maybe I'll get to try that sometime.

And, oh yeah, I definately agree with Rolemaster. But Rolemaster was good if you wanted combat to be really dangerous. One bad roll on a crit chart and it was all over for you!

Then again, in Traveller, your character could actually die *during* character creation...so maybe Rolemaster wasn't all that bad. :p

[Thayan]

Actually I would classify SotC as at least Rules Medium as ther eis a lot of cunch to it, and I love SotC, what helps make it feel rules light is the fast and loose ability to those rules...

Also I would classify MnM as rules medium to light as while the character creation is a bit crunchy the actual rules are a lot less.

[Webhead]

You may have some points there. I could see SotC shifting a little toward the "rules medium-lite" classification.

I suppose I'm looking at them from the perspective of the level of detail with which the game defines the characters which in turn defines the level of detail used to interact with the game world.

In SotC, characters are described in very broad and interpretive terms with their Aspects and Skills. Meanwhile, M&M characters and their abilities are assigned very solid, definate values within the rules (the range, duration, action type and required save of a power are all explicitly defined, for example).

I'm not saying one game is better than the other. I own (and love) both SotC and M&M. But I think I define SotC as rules-lite because it requires a much coarser level of rules "detail" than M&M does. Consequently, though the streamlined d20 mechanic of M&M is definately a simple, easy-to-use mechanic, there are a number of other situational rules factors that come together when characters take action that are accounted for.

[jade von delioch]

Earlier someone said something about Neverwhere.. well, i found the rpg for this:

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=54783&filters=0_0_0&free=1

[Thayan]

You may have some points there. I could see SotC shifting a little toward the "rules medium-lite" classification.

I suppose I'm looking at them from the perspective of the level of detail with which the game defines the characters which in turn defines the level of detail used to interact with the game world.

In SotC, characters are described in very broad and interpretive terms with their Aspects and Skills. Meanwhile, M&M characters and their abilities are assigned very solid, definate values within the rules (the range, duration, action type and required save of a power are all explicitly defined, for example).

I'm not saying one game is better than the other. I own (and love) both SotC and M&M. But I think I define SotC as rules-lite because it requires a much coarser level of rules "detail" than M&M does. Consequently, though the streamlined d20 mechanic of M&M is definately a simple, easy-to-use mechanic, there are a number of other situational rules factors that come together when characters take action that are accounted for.

Its all perspective... and Im not saying SotC doesn;t have a rules Lite Feel,Just my experience and conversations with Fred Hicks lead me to put it in a rules Medium area.. It is a true combination game.. There is Crunch there for the people and there are ways around the crunch for us...:)

[Webhead]

Its all perspective... and Im not saying SotC doesn;t have a rules Lite Feel,Just my experience and conversations with Fred Hicks lead me to put it in a rules Medium area.. It is a true combination game.. There is Crunch there for the people and there are ways around the crunch for us...:)

Very true. There are those who I've seen dismiss SotC because they say it has virtually no "crunch". But when you start to factor in Stunts, Tagging, Compelling, Consequences, Declarations and all the other elements built into SotC, there is a lot more to the game than some people think. SotC just has a different "kind" of crunch that many gamers may not be used to. Thankfully, it manages to make all of its crunch very easy to remember and adaptable so you're not having to reference charts all day long as with some games.

[Thayan]

Very true. There are those to I've seen dismiss SotC because they say it has virtually no "crunch". But when you start to factor in Stunts, Tagging, Compelling, Consequences, Declarations and all the other elements built into SotC, there is a lot more to the game than some people think. SotC just has a different "kind" of crunch that many gamers may not be used to. Thankfully, it manages to make all of its crunch very easy to remember and adaptable so you're not having to reference charts all day long as with some games.

Exactly... SO many people want to classify SotC as a "Story game" But Fred Hicks himself has said thats not true as its more a Hybrid game as he has called it. I got a chance once to talk to Fred Hicks and several of his interviews Ive listened to .. There is a lot there , Its a 400+ page Book and most of it is Rules or explanation of Rules. But as you said.. Its done in just such a way as to be Made of Awesome. It certainly feels like a Rules LIte game.

That is why I am frothing for the Dresden Files game coming soon.

[Webhead]

Exactly... SO many people want to classify SotC as a "Story game" But Fred Hicks himself has said thats not true as its more a Hybrid game as he has called it. I got a chance once to talk to Fred Hicks and several of his interviews Ive listened to .. There is a lot there , Its a 400+ page Book and most of it is Rules or explanation of Rules. But as you said.. Its done in just such a way as to be Made of Awesome. It certainly feels like a Rules LIte game.

Correct. If anything, SotC is a game about measuring your character in terms of how he can influence the story, rather than how he is measured against others in the game world.

SotC is really based around about a dozen very simple rules concepts and the rest of the book is really about elaborating those concepts with examples to give you a solid idea of what can be done with them. There is definately a lot of things going on in the background when SotC is played, but it thankfully feels rules-lite because it's easy to remember as the concepts are all tied together. It all flows very nicely.

That is why I am frothing for the Dresden Files game coming soon.

Oh, yeah. Me too. I love Dresden Files and I love FATE...so I'm very excited to see what happens with this. I signed up for the playtest, but I haven't been involved yet. We'll see what happens.