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RealmsDM
11-08-2007, 10:36 PM
Hey all....

I'm sticking to my guns- WotC has just taking the Forgotten Realms in a direction that has just left a bad taste in my mouth (if anyone read a copy of the GRAND HISTORY OF THE REALMS, then they know what I mean) and I am still not happy about the 4th edition.

Anyway, I'm done with the "official D&D message boards over at the main WotC site. What I'm not done with, is chatting about my favorite hobby- Forgotten Realms to be specific. Any FR fans out there? Start posting. I've been out of the "official" loop for a bit over a month now, and the FR webpage on the site looks like it has not been updated for a looooong time.

I have so many questions for other fans, and I also need to rant & rave about my likes & dislikes of the setting.

C'mon people!

Moritz
11-09-2007, 07:41 AM
The only thing I've heard of is "Living Forgotten Realms" from someone online who was all excited about it.

Personally, I look at all of that material as a buffet line. If the art is good, if some of the ideas are good, then I'll sample from here or there and create my own world. Otherwise, I don't follow story-lines of other creators - they often drive down roads that I don't even care to travel.

Inquisitor Tremayne
11-09-2007, 09:26 AM
I really like the setting, I just don't like playing any games in the setting (except for video games) because its too over-the-top. Everything seems to be super powered and while fun in a video game its not how I like my RPGs.

But I do think it is an awesome setting.

Dimthar
11-09-2007, 12:55 PM
Once I was done with "World Building", I got lazy and decided to switch to the Forgotten Realms, my friends (players) used to ask to many questions, and since FR had it all ready I became a Fan of the Realms.

We started our campaign in Cormyr with a "Battle" to hold a bridge against the fleeing Orc/goblin army who was escaping from Arabel after being re-taken by the Purple Dragons.

With the King dead, they found a scroll written by Azoun himself (according to the rogue failed check, hehehe :) ) naming a baby as the rightful heir to the throne, but the disgraced mother of Cormyr's future king was casted out by her family and ended in a very very very far land known as the "Land of Fate" (Which again due to another failed check, they thought it was Maztica)

I liked the idea of Helm being Lawful Neutral, one of the PCs was a Paladin of Helm and I decided to create a LE Cleric 15 Cardinal Richelieu type, who was "converting" natives in Maztica. The Paladin could not grasp the fact of such an evil person being in Helm's high regard.

So after several levels they finally arrived to Al-Qadim , but then I left the city and the campaign ended there.

My second baby-girl was born Saturday, so it will be a long time before I go back to playing (must likely will be 4th edition).

Still, there is one FR book (Silver Marches) in my Amazon wish list, and even if I get the core books for 4th Ed, must likely will use the 3.0 FR Campaign to run a game (If nobody minds playing in High Elven/Spanish ;) ).

RealmsDM
11-12-2007, 05:43 PM
Silver Marches was one of the first FR books I got, and it is still my favorite. Excellent stuff in there!

Some people argue the bad points of the setting; and it does have bad points, but the good FAR outweigh the bad.

I don't like the direction the setting is heading, but its still great.

Farcaster
11-13-2007, 01:03 AM
I am a confirmed Forgotten Realms fan, and I think I have been for a long, long time. Although I had dabbled in the setting before, it was after I read R.A. Salvatore's books that I really started getting interested in the Realms. One "Avatar" trilogy later, and that really nailed it.

I've got to admit though that I like this idea of a cataclysmic event striking Fearun and leaving it in ruins. In a way it will be new and fresh, but at the same time grounded in something familiar. There's something appealing about the idea of the characters exploring the ruins of a city that the players have known and loved.

On the other hand, I have always been liberal with taking what I like of the Realms and ignoring what I don't. If I don't like the changes Wizards makes to the setting, there is more material than I would ever need to draw on as the Realms stand now.

Llwch
11-13-2007, 02:03 AM
For my two cents worth (and since I'm in Canada, our money - even cents - now go further! :cool:), so-called "canon" material is intended only as a guideline.

If I don't like a direction taken in an "official" game product, I change it. The way I look at it (and to quote that Willy S. guy from 16th century England), "the play's the thing".

Of course, my campaign is happily set in 2nd edition, and I usually set them years before the Time of Troubles. Why? 'cuz I think that Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul are total badass, and that Cyric is a complete lameass...

Don't treat the rules as a crutch - use what you want, shape the rest. If you think the game rules aren't flexible enough, make your own. Besides, homebrew settings can be as much fun (if not more so) than the "canned" settings that are out there - for one, the players don't know what to expect in this world, and the issue of player knowledge vs character knowledge generally won't be a problem.

Digital Arcanist
11-13-2007, 11:01 AM
Like Farcaster, I am an avid fan of the Realms. Mostly, I avoid playing in the setting but I own the sourcebooks and every novel out so far because it is the most fascinating and entertaining world I've come across.

I'm looking forward to reading about New Netheril, Shade, and the Spellplague. This might be a great way to bring in players who feel like the Inquisitor. It would seem they have taken a lot of the power out of the setting. I wonder if Elminster survives and what shape the weave is in.

I'm part-way through The Orc King and then its on to the Lady Penitant series, the Dungeons series, and the Haunted Lands trilogy.

Skunkape
11-13-2007, 01:44 PM
The Forgotten Realms source material makes for some great research tombs!

RealmsDM
11-13-2007, 05:11 PM
yes yes yes... I know what everyone is saying... What I'm saying is that they're taking the most detailed fantasy role playing world, and turning it into another" scorched earth" campaign- the cliche fantasy world that lay in ruins after the great cataclysm. BORING!!!

Digital Arcanist
11-13-2007, 06:23 PM
I have not heard anything about a scorched earth in FR. Netheril rose again and there was a plague that affected magic users. That's like 1 in 1000 being affected.

The current year is somewhere in the 1370's DR and the only glimpse into the future I've seen comes from the Prologue in the Orc King. What have you been reading?

Dimthar
11-13-2007, 07:24 PM
Ok, we can only try some educated guesses on what would happen in the Forgotten Realms if the "Magic Users" (Arcane I suppose) commit "Sepuku".

1) There are specific "Nations" affected such as Calmishan, Halrua or Thay where Mages are part of the Political Ruling Class. Non-Magic Factions will take this opportunity to de-throne the Magocracies. Somehow sounds similar as when Lloth went silent and in some cities (Like in City of the Spider Queen) the ruling class was overthrown.

2) For Cormyr or other "Nations" who rely on Wizards as part of their army it will also debilitate their position.

3) I suppose New Netheril (Shade) emerges because they use the shadow-weave.

4) Spell plague should have some influence in the natural world, maybe flood, drought, disease (No more magical healing?), blame the wizards! (Dragonlance?)

What will happen to the Magic Items? If they are still functioning during the Crisis, that may help the mages survive.

Earlier in this Forum there was a "Thread" in regards to a WotC designer acknowledging that most of the magic items in the D&D world were merely printing junk.

Do you think WotC will try somehow to fix their concept of Magic by means of the Spell-Plague?

Forgotten Realms already have "Wild Magic", "Dead Magic Zone", "Spellfire", so what exactly are they trying to accomplish? Reduce the Magic presence? IMHO, no need for modifying a complete setting.

Sometimes I used to introduce some flavor to my FR campaign by using Ravenloft Conjunctions and have the PC's spend a weekend in hell once in a while, actually while traveling to Maztica it seemed to me appropriate to strand them in "Saragoss" for a while.

Digital Arcanist
11-13-2007, 08:42 PM
Well let's take a look at this. From what little information presented thus far, it would seem that both the Shadow Weave and Mystra's Weave are affected, as evidenced by the fall of this new Netheril nation just before the announcement of this Spell Plague. I think its safe to say that all arcane casters are affected. Now, from the Prince of Lies book, we find out that divine magic flows from each god, however, Mystra can cut of most if not all of the weave from all deities except Ao. Logically, if Mystra is incapacitated then so will all of the other gods, hence divine magic may will not function anymore but divine casters will not go mad from the plague.

The plague, as described so far, causes unpredictable magical results as well causing casters to go insane. So far, there is no indication that there will be any physical feedback like volcanoes or floods. Unlike most fantasy, the natural world does not rely on magical creatures to continue on.

I see the utter devastation of places like Evermeet, Silverymoon, Shadowdale, Waterdeep, Evereska, Zhentil Keep, and Thay since there physical structure as well as political relies on magic users.

So far, magical items or spells in place are not affected because only casters can catch this plague. I have not seen any proof to the contrary presented thus far.

Nations like Sembia, Cormyr, Calisham, Turmish, and Aglarond will see serious ramifications but will not be destroyed. I also see halfling, dwarven, and human settlements surviving relatively unscathed as the majority of their inhabitants are non-magical in nature.

I do see this next chapter as a way for WotC to tone down the role of magic in the Realms. Currently its like living in Metropolis where 1 in 5 people are Superman when it should be 1 in 1M.

We already know what will happen in the Underdark so I won't discuss it.

Bare in mind that I have yet to get my hands on A Grand History of the Realms and RealmsDM has not replied to this thread yet. I don't have all the facts yet, if there are any new ones. This is just an exercise in logic based on all the source books and novels in print to date.

RealmsDM
11-13-2007, 09:23 PM
well, for one they kill of mystra just for kicks. The hints from The Orc King point towards massive power shifts in FR, and the fact that its being hinted that FR will be the flagship of 4th edition, and that they want 4e to be "simpler", I think that they're doing some massive editing of the campaign world just to meet marketing demands.
Just on a novel standpoint, and for the sake of good stories & the labor of love so many writers put into the world... I give WotC a big thumbs down :mad:

Digital Arcanist
11-13-2007, 09:29 PM
I doubt the Realms will be the flagship of 4th edition. If they are choosing a setting then I would place my bet on Eberron.

Personally I think their generic setting will be the flagship. There are too many of us out there tolerate such an editing of our most beloved stomping grounds. My first D&D game took place in Cormyr and I can hope my last will be in the Realms.

Farcaster
11-14-2007, 01:19 AM
I doubt the Realms will be the flagship of 4th edition. If they are choosing a setting then I would place my bet on Eberron.

*gag* .. Eberron.. *gag*

No offense to anyone who likes that setting, but I never could get into it. It just doesn't do it for me. But, from a previous announcement, it appears Forgotten Realms may well be the first to get updated. That being the case, could it not be considered the "flagship" product?

http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3437

Digital Arcanist
11-14-2007, 10:35 AM
If you take a look at your local gaming store, the only settings they worked in since 3.0 are the generic, the Realms, Krynn, and Eberron. Anyone who buys only the generic books creates their own world. I have never met anyone who even knew a friend of a friend who played in Krynn. Eberron as a setting for novels is great but I too am not a fan of the mechanics going into the gameplay there. The few people I know who have played in the setting say they will not do so again.

The only setting big enough to edit is the Realms. The setting is so huge. There are several continents, hundreds of named villains and heroes with a history so rich it rivals our own. I feel they are running out of plots to implement and now they have only this apocalypse plot left. The setting is too daunting for a new DM to use and I think that particular criticism got stuck in their heads when reading all the feedback. Now they feel the need to wreck it for us all. If I don't like this new Spellplague and whatnot then time will stop around 1375 DR for me and I'll just pick and choose from the novels and source books the things I like and work them in.

I still feel they will use Eberron as their flagship because it will be the final test for the line. DDO flopped not only because Turbine was a crappy company to go with but a lot of FR fans didn't care for the wierdness the setting has. Drow who've never lived underground? What kind of insanity is that?

Farcaster
11-14-2007, 11:55 AM
DDO flopped not because Turbine was a crappy company to go with but a lot of FR fans didn't care for the wierdness the setting has. Drow who've never lived underground? What kind of insanity is that?

I personally didn't play DDO past the beta testing phase for two primary reasons: 1) the game forced me to group too early. I like to get a feel for my character in MMPOGs before I inflict my (lack of) skill on others. 2) I didn't like Eberron.

Skunkape
11-14-2007, 12:00 PM
I personally didn't play DDO past the beta testing phase for two primary reasons: 1) the game forced me to group too early. I like to get a feel for my character in MMPOGs before I inflict my (lack of) skill on others. 2) I didn't like Eberron.

I didn't mind the Eberron part as much as the you've got to group if you want to play this game. I know grouping is an important part of most MMORPGs and moreso in DnD, but I don't always have a lot of time to play, so if I'm joining a game, I don't want to have to spend time finding a group, joining the group, yatta, yatta, yatta.

I just want to jump in the game, get a quest, run to the quest, do the quest and then get my reward. I know they've changed DDO so that you don't have to group anymore, but I just kinda lost interest in it before they made the switch and couldn't quite get back into the game when they finally had.

Farcaster
11-14-2007, 12:14 PM
I just want to jump in the game, get a quest, run to the quest, do the quest and then get my reward.

100% with you, Skunk. That is why Lord of the Rings Online has resonated so well with me. My character in that game is in the mid 30s (of 50) and I always have solo quests available in my quest log. Of course, the rewards for doing the group quests are always much better, but that is understandable. It nonetheless allows me to get online when I only have 30-45 minutes to plan and I don't want to spend that entire time looking for a group.

RealmsDM
11-14-2007, 07:13 PM
Before this thread fails it save against the epic spell "Tanget" let me steer it baclk towards FR talk... Farcaster, you should know better!!!;)

As far as FR being to much for a new DM, I kinda agree. The realms was too planned out for any creative thinking, unless you REALLY knew your realmslore, in which case you could work around it (but if you were like me, you didn't too much in fear that all your hard work would be null & void in a future novel) I liked to try to keep the overall plotline in sync with official material but it just started becoming a hassle- that's when I realized just how hairbrained things were getting.

* Just to clarify my position- they must have realized this & just decided to start from scratch by killing the setting...ugh my beloved FR :(

Digital Arcanist
11-14-2007, 07:37 PM
Well all is not lost yet. There is still time for WotC to reconsider this. Even if they stay the course perhaps the Realms will go out with a bang rather than a whisper.

I am planning a support group those us like Farcaster and myself who are FR zealots. We will need an outlet for our grief and a way to find hope and a reason to go on.:rolleyes:

Llwch
11-14-2007, 07:47 PM
Well all is not lost yet. There is still time for WotC to reconsider this. Even if they stay the course perhaps the Realms will go out with a bang rather than a whisper.

I am planning a support group those us like Farcaster and myself who are FR zealots. We will need an outlet for our grief and a way to find hope and a reason to go on.:rolleyes:

Why start a support group?

For that matter, why bother adopting the changes that WoTC is making? Granted, I never really made the move to 3e, but could easily manage playing the FR prior to the Godswar. Just because material is "canon", we are not forced to adopt any of it.

Do like the introduction in the first edition (http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/fr/frbox.htm) Forgotten Realms boxed set. Make the Realms yours. :)

Digital Arcanist
11-14-2007, 07:52 PM
The PnP setting changes don't affect me, especially if I choose not to adopt them as you suggested and I stated earlier. I will however shed many tears because I love to read the novels.

Llwch
11-14-2007, 08:52 PM
The PnP setting changes don't affect me, especially if I choose not to adopt them as you suggested and I stated earlier. I will however shed many tears because I love to read the novels.

The novels have been, for the most party, pretty good. Though I liked bits of the Drizz't/Wulfgar/Bruenor/etc series, I found a lot of it to be wanting.

Even Ed Greenwood's stuff can sometimes get a bit long winded. However, he's Canadian, and I can forgive that. ;)

starfalconkd
11-15-2007, 07:36 AM
I'm a little worried about FR's new direction. Granted, I have not read Grand History yet, but I've heard a bit about it. It looks like they might be headed for a crash.

Moritz
11-15-2007, 07:41 AM
The impression I got from the girl I was talking to the other day was that they're going to allow some wiki like project so players can add content to the world. I'm not sure if this has ever been done, but I can totally imagine the dribble that will be added. Especially since I use to come up with some of that dribble when I was a kid. Heck, I even dribble some now, and drool too.

starfalconkd
11-15-2007, 07:44 AM
Please tell me she was wrong... someone? Anyone? The whole setting will go down in flames.

Moritz
11-15-2007, 10:46 AM
Oh, and another thing, the girl I was talking to was doing her own wiki D&D campaign page with her husband. She listed that WotC had offered for them to help write for the company. Now, she was using information gathered on her wiki pages to add to her own submissions and claim them as her own.

Digital Arcanist
11-15-2007, 11:12 AM
Well, until you see some checks from WotC, I would be skeptical of the truth of those grandiose claims.

Moritz
11-15-2007, 11:34 AM
Yeah, I don't see it as truth or fact. Just some girl rambling. But wouldn't be cool at all if it happened.

Dimthar
11-15-2007, 09:50 PM
The impression I got from the girl I was talking to the other day was that they're going to allow some wiki like project so players can add content to the world. I'm not sure if this has ever been done, but I can totally imagine the dribble that will be added. Especially since I use to come up with some of that dribble when I was a kid. Heck, I even dribble some now, and drool too.

Is not the same, but sounds similar to what happened with the "Kargatane" and Ravenloft. Somehow WotC let the Kargatane create free stuff (which was not officially Canon), and when the license was given to Arthaus, a bunch of them (if I am not mistaken) were hired by Arthaus for the last "Ravenloft Edition".

I really don't think the "Wiki Campaign" can be the FR (they may loose some copyrights by doing so), but sounds like a good idea to identify good designers/writers, specially if there is a Rating System from the users to assign scores to the best Nations or Pantheons.

If I remember correctly, TSR was well known for not allowing anyone in the internet to use their license and fire lawsuits here and there, a WotC sanctioned open campaign may still be limited by the "Core System", remember 4th Ed means, New DM Guide, New Players, New MC, and the whole fighters....bards..wizards..arms and equipment, etc. (Gosh!! looks like my wife is going to get zirconias again for our aniversary :) )

Anyway, I bought a lot of FR PDF from AD&D, so if I start my campaigns in that timeline, I have enough Fearun, Maztica, Kara-Tur and Zakhara material for the rest of my days.

Dimthar
11-15-2007, 10:11 PM
remember 4th Ed means, New DM Guide, New Players, New MC, and the whole fighters....bards..wizards..arms and equipment, etc.

- Have your Party fight a 4Ed Orc ... $30 USD (Monster Compendium)
- Let the Wizard cast a 4Ed Fire-Bolt Spell ... $20 USD (Tome of Magic)
- Give the Fighter a 4Ed Kris Knife +3 ... $10 USD (Arms and Equipment)
- See the rogue escape the castle using the 4Ed Frog Leap Feat ... $20 USD (Rogue's Handbook)

Being able to play in a "FREE" Official D&D "Wiki Type" Campaign World ... Priceless!!!

.

RealmsDM
11-15-2007, 10:58 PM
I agree...There's enough FR material from the first 3 1/2 editions of the setting to last a lifetime. My main concerns were

1: why ruin a good thing? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

2: although from a RPG standpoint, gamer's can pick & choose what they want, the novels will always represent official material, even if that material is dumb (yeah, I said it... DUMB)

3: Seriously now... there are like 100 FR supplemental books out there... what HASN'T been detailed yet that's worth spending money on? Same s**t in a different bag.... or they can always create a new level of undermountain or have a cataclysmic event that reshapes the world.:rolleyes:

Dimthar
11-15-2007, 11:24 PM
3: Seriously now... there are like 100 FR supplemental books out there... what HASN'T been detailed yet that's worth spending money on? Same s**t in a different bag.... or they can always create a new level of undermountain or have a cataclysmic event that reshapes the world.:rolleyes:

I believe that the first misconception is that "We Old Role-players" are the: "Focus Group" / "Target Market" / "Untapped Gold Mine".

The New "s**t" is for the New Players, they don't have this Tons of information, the Forgotten Realms is a "Brand Name" which has found other niches like the Baldur's Gate Series and the Neverwinter's Night (MMORPG on the way anyone?). So instead of making another "Bad Eberron", let's cash the good old name. Again, they are just going to kill a few Mages, and even maybe Elminister will be the new Mystra (Cleric of Elminister ... a mouthful)

Dragonlace Cannon is Stagnant by definition (Didn't even let Ravenloft borrow Lord Soth), Greyhawk ... what is Greyhawk?

RealmsDM
11-16-2007, 07:18 AM
I agree with you on certain points, but it still doesn't change the fact that with all the major plotlines FR has going on, I'm waiting for a picture of Drizz't with a " THE END IS NEAR" sign hanging from his neck in the middle of Waterdeep.

And if you step back & take a look at Ebberon from a non D&D player's standpoint, its a flashy, final fantasy like game, with just a hint of anime. That's for the new kids. I'm just hoping they don't dumb things down in FR too much. It's no secret that 4e will be more "old school" and I hope that doesn't mean boring.*


* I LOVE old school D&D FYI... give me a Type II demon & I'm a happy man!

Moritz
11-16-2007, 07:24 AM
I agree...There's enough FR material from the first 3 1/2 editions of the setting to last a lifetime. My main concerns were

1: why ruin a good thing? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!


Money makes the world go around.

They don't care if they break it or that it doesn't need fixing. They just care to put out books so people will pay them money.

Digital Arcanist
11-16-2007, 10:28 AM
I have no intention of buying setting books for 4.0. If they put out a good adventure I will pick it up but the change in rules and character creation from 3.5 to 4.0 will be so minor that you can convert any character from the existing books over in a minute or two. It won't be anything like going from 2.0 to 3.0.

rabkala
11-18-2007, 08:34 PM
Anyway, I bought a lot of FR PDF from AD&D, so if I start my campaigns in that timeline, I have enough Fearun, Maztica, Kara-Tur and Zakhara material for the rest of my days.
I have done this several times with several settings (yes even Greyhawk, Spelljammer, and Krynn). It always helps the setting feel more alive if the world is moving around the characters not just because of them.


I have never met anyone who even knew a friend of a friend who played in Krynn.
I have played in several games based in Krynn. I know at least three players in another group near me who would like to beat you for such a remark. They are of course old Krynn nerds and not cool Realms nerds. :rolleyes:


Greyhawk ... what is Greyhawk?
Blasphemy, evil blasphemy!

rabkala
11-18-2007, 08:38 PM
* I LOVE old school D&D FYI... give me a Type II demon & I'm a happy man!

So uncool and not PC. Demon is a bad word. ;)

Moritz
11-19-2007, 07:27 AM
Yeah, using the words demon and devil give the fundies ammunition to use against the evil toy makers. Plus, if your parents don't like a friend of yours and they learn that he/she is trying to influence you with /that/ game, then they can say he's a devil worshiper.

Digital Arcanist
11-19-2007, 10:44 AM
Wait....we're not supposed to worship the devil now?.......why did no one tell me until now?

Farcaster
11-19-2007, 11:12 AM
Wait....we're not supposed to worship the devil now?.......why did no one tell me until now?

Do you have any idea of how many feline lives could have been spared if I had known D&D was JUST A GAME?

Moritz
11-19-2007, 12:36 PM
Felines?? Damn, I thought we were supposed to use Chickens. No wonder the spells didn't work.

InfoStorm
11-19-2007, 12:44 PM
Hey, I've got a sister-in-law who actually believes that I am a dwvil worshiper of some sort because I have a bookshelf of D&D books and art all around my baasement by Larry Elmore and Ruth Thompson. She also threw away all of her hisbands stuff and claimed it a "lost in the move". (she has since confessed)

Any anyhow, why are you guys in such a modern setting. What even happened to Blackmoore?

Digital Arcanist
11-19-2007, 10:12 PM
I prefer Luis Arroyo, Jessica Peffer, and Theo Black.

Modern? The setting is like 30 years old.

PhishStyx
11-19-2007, 10:36 PM
Hey, I've got a sister-in-law who actually believes that I am a dwvil worshiper. . .

I should meet this person. :D heh-heh http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/mcfear/101.gif

Thriondel Half-Elven
12-18-2007, 09:46 PM
i love the setting. i dont think i have played in another game world since i got it. i haven't even thought of making a new one. oh well. i LOVE it

Drohem
12-19-2007, 10:43 AM
Yes, I like the Forgotten Realms setting myself. I ran several long-term campaigns in both 1st and 2nd editions of AD&D. I liked having the option to run a Kara-Tur, Horde, Maztica, or Zakhara campaign in conjunction with the Forgotten Realms campaign.

I really like diversity, and FR really gives the DM that option. :)

RealmsDM
12-23-2007, 04:56 PM
It just seems to me that the new FR theme is ripping apart what took 20 years of RPG gaming to create....

Still love it, I just find myself using less & less of the new material/plotlines. I'm sure I'll eventually stop using anything made & go off the oodles of stuff that I haven't even begun to use in any of my campaigns.

Digital Arcanist
12-23-2007, 06:40 PM
Yeah...there's nearly 30 years worth of novels and source books to work from so there is no reason for anyone to complain about not having enough material to work with. I'm hoping WotC has something awesome planned to counterbalance the severe changes they made/are making in the realms.

Bloodwyrm
01-02-2008, 01:39 PM
I Picked Up An Atlas For Forgotton realms And i use it to base my campaigns on but i heard through the grapevine that some of the new stuff just sucks so im looking into it.

rabkala
01-02-2008, 07:32 PM
"Sucks" is a very subjective description. Some people might like the way it sucks.

Bloodwyrm
01-05-2008, 03:13 AM
I Just Browsed New Additions its ok to me (I Usually Give Things a chance)

RealmsDM
01-13-2008, 10:50 AM
WotC just posed some new material on the new face of FR... man, its making me sick... its a sundered world in some areas (Athas?) with regions of instable magical pollution (Ebberon), with major diecides resulting in fewer religions (dragonlance)... geez... where's the ravenloft tie in???

*vomit :(

tesral
01-13-2008, 11:20 AM
Hey all....

I'm sticking to my guns- WotC has just taking the Forgotten Realms in a direction that has just left a bad taste in my mouth (if anyone read a copy of the GRAND HISTORY OF THE REALMS, then they know what I mean) and I am still not happy about the 4th edition.

Anyway, I'm done with the "official D&D message boards over at the main WotC site. What I'm not done with, is chatting about my favorite hobby- Forgotten Realms to be specific. Any FR fans out there? Start posting. I've been out of the "official" loop for a bit over a month now, and the FR webpage on the site looks like it has not been updated for a looooong time.

I have so many questions for other fans, and I also need to rant & rave about my likes & dislikes of the setting.

C'mon people!

No setting survives contact with the Game. As I said in another thread, once you start playing a setting it's yours and additional sources have to audition for inclusion in you version of that setting. FR is no different.

The RealmsDM version of Forgotten Realms is yours. It does not belong to Lizards, they do not get to tell you what to do with it. If you don't like the direction Lizards is going, no one will twist you arm to go that way.

In short, do as you please, it's your setting.

rabkala
01-13-2008, 11:33 AM
The RealmsDM version of Forgotten Realms is yours. It does not belong to Lizards, they do not get to tell you what to do with it. If you don't like the direction Lizards is going, no one will twist you arm to go that way.

In short, do as you please, it's your setting.
The setting police will surely be visiting your home soon... :eek:


WotC just posed some new material on the new face of FR... man, its making me sick... its a sundered world in some areas (Athas?) with regions of instable magical pollution (Ebberon), with major diecides resulting in fewer religions (dragonlance)... geez... where's the ravenloft tie in???

*vomit :(
Ravenloft being a demi-plane is still accessible through normal means. :D
There are some low magic zones to work in Kalamar. :rolleyes:
As long as a few ports exist for my spelljamers to land and laugh, it can't be all bad. :p

Digital Arcanist
01-13-2008, 12:12 PM
I'm fine with the changes to the landscape and political structure of the setting....what concerns me are the class changes, spells, and the monsters.

Faerun was always the place for overly powerful adventurers to walk around and all the wizards seemed to be archmages and now they have seemed to have knocked the power-level down a few notches. This isn't a bad thing but it may not be a good thing. I think the biggest impact will be seen in the novels. Typically fantasy is about powerful wizards fighting epic demons and dragons but if they are all dead or powerless then the fantasy kinda turns into historical fiction......

Dimthar
01-13-2008, 03:19 PM
Ups!!! They really changed it dude!!. Waterdeep and Cormyr Top Guys, that doesn't surprise me.

I know they may feel Maztica, Kara-Tur and Al-Qadim are just backyards, but I wonder what the Spell-Plague did to them.

If Unther and Mulhorand are gone, does that mean only Tiamat remains? All other Gods are gone. I am gonna miss Thay ....

Now we have oWoD and WoD, let's prepare for oFR and nFR, Yikes!!

Digital Arcanist
01-13-2008, 04:12 PM
Well Helm was killed by Tyr through trickery on Cyric's part. Cyric and Shar murdered Mystra in Dweomerheart which caused the Spellplague. As far as the guide to the Realms goes, the other gods are still around, though there are some rearranging of the triad. The demi-human deities don't seem to have been affected much.

RealmsDM
01-13-2008, 06:50 PM
Trust me when I say I only use to cannon timeline of events as a guideline for my own storylines, but I love(d) the novels too... I'll give the authors the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not getting my hopes high in that department.

Mystra- she had to be killed... they made her just waaaay to goodie goodie & allpowerful amongst the gods. And I don't mind the pantheon downsizing, as long as its not too crazy. I really need to get a copy of grand history... I breezed through it & got ill, but maybe I can stomach it now that I know what to expect.

And teh world shattering changes (the Shaar sinking into the underdark, Thay basically getting ripped asunder by earthquakes, and the spellplauge itself) seems like the game designers said "hey, how can we draw in the Final Fantasy crowd?- I know let's go cataclysmic!"

Dimthar
01-13-2008, 07:31 PM
Well Helm was killed by Tyr through trickery on Cyric's part. Cyric and Shar murdered Mystra in Dweomerheart which caused the Spellplague. As far as the guide to the Realms goes, the other gods are still around, though there are some rearranging of the triad. The demi-human deities don't seem to have been affected much.

My bad ... I meant if only Tiamat remained from the Mulhorand pantheon, Set, Osiris and the "Egyptian type" gods are gone for good.

Regards!

Digital Arcanist
01-13-2008, 07:53 PM
My bad ... I meant if only Tiamat remained from the Mulhorand pantheon, Set, Osiris and the "Egyptian type" gods are gone for good.

Regards!

I didn't really like the Egyptian thing myself or all the god-kings.

tesral
01-13-2008, 11:38 PM
The setting police will surely be visiting your home soon... :eek:



Good, the Dragon is getting hungry.

Dimthar
01-14-2008, 12:33 PM
Ravenloft being a demi-plane is still accessible through normal means. :D

If by "Normal" you mean: The Will of the Dark Powers.

Something we should learn from Ravenloft is on "How to secure our borders".

...

Back to the nFR. Weren't there already "Wild Magic" and "Dead Magic" zones in Forgotten?

Regards

Farcaster
01-14-2008, 01:03 PM
And teh world shattering changes (the Shaar sinking into the underdark, Thay basically getting ripped asunder by earthquakes, and the spellplauge itself) seems like the game designers said "hey, how can we draw in the Final Fantasy crowd?- I know let's go cataclysmic!"

I think the drastic changes are more a function of their desire to change the world at a fundamental level to match their new vision. An apocalyptic event is their vehicle to change the Realms to fit their "Points of Light (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070829a)" vision. The fact that the fabric of reality has become mutable by the death of Mystra and the ensuing spell plague will allow them to justify the drastic changes they are making to races, classes, and the magic system itself.

This sort of realignment for a new edition of the game has happened in the past too. Time of Troubles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_Troubles_%28Forgotten_Realms%29) anyone?

tesral
01-14-2008, 02:54 PM
The fact that the fabric of reality has become mutable by the death of Mystra and the ensuing spell plague will allow them to justify the drastic changes they are making to races, classes, and the magic system itself.

This sort of realignment for a new edition of the game has happened in the past too. Time of Troubles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_Troubles_%28Forgotten_Realms%29) anyone?

Meh. I don't berlieve that Lizards should be weaving plot into the settings. Put out a fairly static product for people to build on. As said, once it contacts someone's game, eveything changes.

rabkala
01-14-2008, 03:39 PM
Meh. I don't berlieve that Lizards should be weaving plot into the settings. Put out a fairly static product for people to build on. As said, once it contacts someone's game, eveything changes.
To an extent, every setting does influence plot and possible plots. The gods, magic, monsters, what exists, etc. will change the game. WoTC is not really forcing plot, but setting this stage with history of a new point in time. Wizards is also responding to most people that do not want a static world. Many DM's want the setting to live of it's own volition. While it can change once somebody makes it their own, it can continue to live as WoTC sees. New products can be a good and old doesn't mean better to most.

gdmcbride
01-14-2008, 04:14 PM
Meh. I don't berlieve that Lizards should be weaving plot into the settings. Put out a fairly static product for people to build on. As said, once it contacts someone's game, eveything changes.

That's one way to play. Some people enjoy meta-plot, some don't. I believe the market is big enough for products that cater to both sorts of wants.

Gary

RealmsDM
01-14-2008, 05:14 PM
This sort of realignment for a new edition of the game has happened in the past too. Time of Troubles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_Troubles_%28Forgotten_Realms%29) anyone?

The time of troubles wasn't really as big a world altering change as this- can't even hold a match to this new forgotten realms. It was HUGE in its own right, but this changes every aspect of the setting.

We'll just have to wait & see... the new campaign setting comes out sometime next year, and the novels that help shape the changes have already started coming out- the Twilight War trilogy being one of them.

RealmsDM
01-14-2008, 07:58 PM
ok, so I just finished reading the last chapter of "Grand History of the Realms"...

It is SOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooo just a "lets start from scratch here in 4e" PR kit. The very last line of the book is comically bad. I just wish someone from WotC just stepped up & told it like it is.

Kill off some NPCs- fine with me
Change around the spellcasting system- cool
Shake up the godly cosmos- interesting
New maps!- new adventures!

Doing it all at once- :(

Riftwalker
01-14-2008, 10:50 PM
The very last line of the book is comically bad.

I'll bite; what is it?

tesral
01-15-2008, 06:51 AM
To an extent, every setting does influence plot and possible plots. The gods, magic, monsters, what exists, etc. will change the game. WoTC is not really forcing plot, but setting this stage with history of a new point in time. Wizards is also responding to most people that do not want a static world. Many DM's want the setting to live of it's own volition. While it can change once somebody makes it their own, it can continue to live as WoTC sees. New products can be a good and old doesn't mean better to most.

The world should live of the DMs own volition. I do not run a static world waiting for the PCs to show up and deal with it. The world changes around them. The political situation changes, people come and go. They are part of the world, not the whole.

I have nothing against new products. However the only time Lizards goes to the meta plot deal is when they change up the rules. It's not a living world, it's a world shackled to the release of new products.

Maelstrom
01-15-2008, 07:50 AM
They do have the Living campaigns... but I know you're not all that fond of the RPGA.

tesral
01-15-2008, 08:02 AM
They do have the Living campaigns... but I know you're not all that fond of the RPGA.

A big difference between what RPGA calls "living" and a "living game world." I've seen the difference.

Farcaster
01-15-2008, 02:53 PM
I have nothing against new products. However the only time Lizards goes to the meta plot deal is when they change up the rules. It's not a living world, it's a world shackled to the release of new products.

What are you talking about? There is constantly new fiction put out for Forgotten Realms that create a living and breathing world. Very few of the events may be world altering, but a lot of the novels have tremendous regional impact. What of the Year of Rogue Dragons? Or the Year of Storms that followed? What did those have to do with "meta-plot" rule changes? Nada. But, both had far reaching events that a Forgotten Realms DM could certainly encompass in his game.

rabkala
01-15-2008, 04:56 PM
Plot: the plan or main story (as of a movie or literary work).
Meta: occurring later than or in succession to , after.

Metaplot is not a real word!
If we use the popular definitions of the word,
Metaplot: occurring after the main story.

Slang 'metaplot' refers to an over arching action that everything else hinges upon... yes?

Perhaps, you should define what you are exactly talking about with made up words.

What world doesn't have plot elements written/woven into its setup? What world doesn't have a 'Metaplot'?

RealmsDM
01-15-2008, 06:27 PM
I'll bite; what is it?


"Sages in centuries to come mark the Weave's destruction in the year of blue fire as the end of the old world, and the terrible begining of the new."

It might as well say " Marketing dept. guys have decided to repackage the product in order to stimulate sales of the 4th edition lauch, and limit the usefulness of older products."

Riftwalker
01-15-2008, 09:35 PM
Meh.

Digital Arcanist
01-15-2008, 09:52 PM
"Sages in centuries to come mark the Weave's destruction in the year of blue fire as the end of the old world, and the terrible begining of the new."

It might as well say " Marketing dept. guys have decided to repackage the product in order to stimulate sales of the 4th edition lauch, and limit the usefulness of older products."

Gamers in basements the world over mark the Grand History of the Realms in the year of Fourth Edition as the end of old Forgotten Realms and the terrible beginning of the new.:D

I wish they would put out the new campaign setting with the new DMG!!! I don't know if I can wait until next year for it. All I have to keep me going are the novels and I can't wait for the trilogy telling of the actual death of Mystra and the shattering of the weave. I loved Time of Troubles and the Shadow of the Avatar trilogy leading up to it.

Perhaps I am too crafty for WotC, but I don't think the new Realms will limit the usefulness of the old products at all. Much to the contrary, a book detailing the life and landmarks of a city or region will be invaluable for plot hooks, dungeon designing, and lore when that particular city or region becomes more ruins or covered up with the next generation of the city.

gdmcbride
01-16-2008, 02:14 AM
Plot: the plan or main story (as of a movie or literary work).
Meta: occurring later than or in succession to , after.

Metaplot is not a real word!
If we use the popular definitions of the word,
Metaplot: occurring after the main story.

Slang 'metaplot' refers to an over arching action that everything else hinges upon... yes?

Perhaps, you should define what you are exactly talking about with made up words.

What world doesn't have plot elements written/woven into its setup? What world doesn't have a 'Metaplot'?

The prefix 'meta-' doesn't just mean after.

The Webster's Third International Dictionary (unabridged version) lists ten seperate definitions of meta. One of these is:

beyond: transcending (as in metaphysics)

True, metaplot is not a 'real word' per se. Much like 'THAC0' or 'NPC' it is RPG gamer slang. None of those terms occur in the dictionary.

Metaplot means 'beyond the plot'; 'transcending the plot'. The plot in question is the plot of your game. A metaplot decision transcends a decision made in game by you or your players. Usually these come from the publishers, but they can also be inflicted upon you by any overarching body (a fan club say like the Camarilla vis a vis Vampire).

That's what it means.

Gary

RealmsDM
01-16-2008, 11:56 AM
Perhaps I am too crafty for WotC, but I don't think the new Realms will limit the usefulness of the old products at all. Much to the contrary, a book detailing the life and landmarks of a city or region will be invaluable for plot hooks, dungeon designing, and lore when that particular city or region becomes more ruins or covered up with the next generation of the city.

Well, the "crunch" of FR will most certainly be different- spellcasting, dead/wild/spellpagued area, etc
The "fluff" material for the majority of Faerun will be useful as history, but that's about it. Think of all the sourcebooks that will lose their usefulness as current reference material- Unapproachable East (Thay is gone man!), Waterdeep (Halaster is dead, new blackstaff, killer statues destroyed half the city) Silver Marches (well, this book although great, has been out of date for a long time), Serpent Kingdoms (aren't half the locations detailed in there gone now?) I can go on...

We can only wait & see what year the new campaign setting is launched in. If the "offcial" year is set well after the catastrophies decribed in the grand history, then all the new material will be in line with that, thus creating a gap of source material for the years during the spellplague & whatnot.
*sigh :( I hope I'm just being overly critical of these changes & they don't suck as much as I think they will. I hope I'm wrong.

Farcaster
01-16-2008, 12:08 PM
all the new material will be in line with that, thus creating a gap of source material for the years during the spellplague & whatnot.

I suspect that there will be a number of novels that explain the story leading up to the spell plague. Actually, it might be kind of interesting to have a game that starts just before the spellplauge hits in 3.5e and converts to 4th edition during the course of the story. I wonder if WotC has considered putting out some modules in 3.5e or 4e that would make the players part of that story. That might help groups have more buy-in to the campaign world changes.

RealmsDM
01-16-2008, 06:59 PM
I suspect that there will be a number of novels that explain the story leading up to the spell plague. Actually, it might be kind of interesting to have a game that starts just before the spellplauge hits in 3.5e and converts to 4th edition during the course of the story. I wonder if WotC has considered putting out some modules in 3.5e or 4e that would make the players part of that story. That might help groups have more buy-in to the campaign world changes.

I have no doubt that there will be novels to lead the way for the transition. Some of them are already out there (Twilight War paves the way for the period just prior to the spellplague)

I never played them, but there were a series of adventures for the avatar trilogy, right? Anyone play them & if yes, did the live up to the novels?

Digital Arcanist
01-16-2008, 08:35 PM
Well, the "crunch" of FR will most certainly be different- spellcasting, dead/wild/spellpagued area, etc
The "fluff" material for the majority of Faerun will be useful as history, but that's about it. Think of all the sourcebooks that will lose their usefulness as current reference material- Unapproachable East (Thay is gone man!), Waterdeep (Halaster is dead, new blackstaff, killer statues destroyed half the city) Silver Marches (well, this book although great, has been out of date for a long time), Serpent Kingdoms (aren't half the locations detailed in there gone now?) I can go on...

We can only wait & see what year the new campaign setting is launched in. If the "offcial" year is set well after the catastrophies decribed in the grand history, then all the new material will be in line with that, thus creating a gap of source material for the years during the spellplague & whatnot.
*sigh :( I hope I'm just being overly critical of these changes & they don't suck as much as I think they will. I hope I'm wrong.

When you say gone, the locations are still there but mostly the political structure and some settlements are gone, but it is not as if the cities and kingdoms are just lifted away and craters left in their place. Of course the exception is probably Thay, in that the plateau it rested upon actually slid down the highlands and into the lowlands right? The knowledge of the buildings and groups operating in Thay is still highly valuable for a DM looking to excavate Thayan cities or wizards' towers as part of their story. The same is true for the other books you mentioned. I don't play in the Realms but only read the books. As I said in earlier posts, the Realms is just full of too many overly powerful spells and classes for my taste, take the Cleric of Mystra for example. I'm looking forward to the changes and hope they will not ruin the novels for me as well as tone down the Realms as a campaign setting.

RealmsDM
01-17-2008, 07:40 PM
well, from what I've read there are some places that just aren't there anymore & there is nothing left but a crater left in its place.... lol

Aleolus
01-19-2008, 11:09 AM
OK, does anyone know anything about a thing called the Spell Plague in the Forgotten Realms setting? Our DM recently introduced it, and told me that I could find it on the Wizards 4th Ed forums, but the Wizards forums are not wanting to cooperate at the moment for me. It's apparently something like the Bubonic Plague, but instead of eating away at the body, it eats away at magic (magic creatures, spellcasters, anything that is magical in its nature is susceptible to it).

RealmsDM
01-19-2008, 06:33 PM
OK, does anyone know anything about a thing called the Spell Plague in the Forgotten Realms setting? Our DM recently introduced it, and told me that I could find it on the Wizards 4th Ed forums, but the Wizards forums are not wanting to cooperate at the moment for me. It's apparently something like the Bubonic Plague, but instead of eating away at the body, it eats away at magic (magic creatures, spellcasters, anything that is magical in its nature is susceptible to it).

answer me this first... how much do you wanna know? to tell you everything that I know thus far might spoil some things in your campaign.

Aleolus
01-21-2008, 10:31 AM
answer me this first... how much do you wanna know? to tell you everything that I know thus far might spoil some things in your campaign.

Well, I found the Dragon article that introduced it, so I know the basics of it, and now I'm just wondering about possible ways for PCs to deal with it/get rid of it. The DM has set it that most nations have laws against spellcasting so as to prevent the plague from getting worse, with violation of those laws being punishable by death.

Farcaster
01-21-2008, 12:14 PM
Well, I found the Dragon article that introduced it, so I know the basics of it, and now I'm just wondering about possible ways for PCs to deal with it/get rid of it. The DM has set it that most nations have laws against spellcasting so as to prevent the plague from getting worse, with violation of those laws being punishable by death.

Well, if your DM is keeping to canon, then you can't get rid of it entirely. Apparently, even years later it, it still pops up now and again. As to how to deal with a particular outcropping, I have no idea.

Anaesthesia
01-21-2008, 12:35 PM
I don't know if I can wait until next year for it. All I have to keep me going are the novels and I can't wait for the trilogy telling of the actual death of Mystra and the shattering of the weave. I loved Time of Troubles and the Shadow of the Avatar trilogy leading up to it.


I remember reading about Mystra's death in Waterdeep, the last book in the Avatar Trilogy. Or am I just confuzzled and should re-read it?

Farcaster
01-21-2008, 12:48 PM
Mystra did die during the Time of Troubles (Avatar series). She was slain by Helm when she tried to ascend the celestial staircase which he was tasked to guard. However, AO promoted the mortal Midnight to become the new godess of magic. To avoid confusion and presumably to make the transition go more smoothly, Midnight adopted her predecessor's name.

Anaesthesia
01-21-2008, 01:00 PM
Mystra did die during the Time of Troubles (Avatar series). She was slain by Helm when she tried to ascend the celestial staircase which he was tasked to guard. However, AO promoted the mortal Midnight to become the new godess of magic. To avoid confusion and presumably to make the transition go more smoothly, Midnight adopted her predecessor's name.

Thanks Farcaster-that's what I remember! *lol*

Anaesthesia
01-21-2008, 01:20 PM
One question/rant then I'm done. I've recently read Murder in Cormyr (by Chet Williamson). The main character, Jasper, mentions Werejaguars. Werejaguars? WHERE? Has anyone else seen werejaguars mentioned anywere else in FR? Or in a Monster Manual somewhere? Or am I just nutty?

Riftwalker
01-21-2008, 01:35 PM
I don't have my books in front of me, but thought that Lycanthrope was a template that could be applied? I can't remember if it was a template based on the animal, template based on the humanoid, or both (somehow).

Braeg
01-21-2008, 03:52 PM
While I have no objection to a huge disaster reshaping the realm, I'd rather they had done it differently. The response to the question, "Remember when the God of X was killed?" should never be, "Which time do you mean?"

That said, I've always liked Shar and it's amusing to see her on top. After all, Points of Light means a whoooole lot of darkness. ^^

Aleolus
01-21-2008, 09:04 PM
Well, if your DM is keeping to canon, then you can't get rid of it entirely. Apparently, even years later it, it still pops up now and again. As to how to deal with a particular outcropping, I have no idea.

I presented the idea of trying to collect a concentrated physical manifestation of it, and giving it to a number of nonmagical alchemists to try to develop a counter or cure for.

After the DM in question looked up Mystra, he got a new image for it, which is somewhat more technological in example. Where Mystra was something of the connecting circuit for all of the Weave, and with her gone, there are all sorts of frayed wires around, and whenever people touch them the wires go ZZAAPP and fry them, and anyone who touches someone who's been fried triggers it again.

Digital Arcanist
01-21-2008, 09:24 PM
Maztica?.....

tesral
01-22-2008, 10:01 AM
While I have no objection to a huge disaster reshaping the realm, I'd rather they had done it differently. The response to the question, "Remember when the God of X was killed?" should never be, "Which time do you mean?"

I have to second that. What would have been wrong with a political upheaval? Must everything concern "the gods"?

Farcaster
01-22-2008, 01:41 PM
Well, from what I can tell, their goal is to make significant changes to not just the geopolitical structure of Faerun, but also to drastically reduce the number of gods, modify the races, make fundamental changes to the magic system and even the cosmology of the D&D universe. To justify all of that in their setting, they need more than just a little political upheaval.

rabkala
01-22-2008, 08:54 PM
Well, from what I can tell, their goal is to make significant changes to not just the geopolitical structure of Faerun, but also to drastically reduce the number of gods, modify the races, make fundamental changes to the magic system and even the cosmology of the D&D universe. To justify all of that in their setting, they need more than just a little political upheaval.
Come on, an invasion of colossal nuclear robotic aliens infected with a strange zombie virus would do all that and more! :D

RealmsDM
01-23-2008, 07:07 PM
Come on, an invasion of colossal nuclear robotic aliens infected with a strange zombie virus would do all that and more! :D

Cool!

oh yeah... Go Giants... :cool:

Digital Arcanist
01-23-2008, 08:55 PM
Come on, an invasion of colossal nuclear robotic aliens infected with a strange zombie virus would do all that and more! :D

Wait...wasn't that a Spelljammer module?

rabkala
01-23-2008, 10:14 PM
Cool!

oh yeah... Go Giants... :cool:
PFFFeeeeet! Personal foul
15 yard penalty on #19 for roughing the poster!
I am so depressed...

Wait...wasn't that a Spelljammer module?
I wouldn't... in the module it wasn't a virus. ;)

How the Realms have fallen so...

tesral
01-24-2008, 02:41 AM
PFFFeeeeet! Personal foul
15 yard penalty on #19 for roughing the poster!
I am so depressed...

I wondered what Marvin the android was doing.

Mason2501
01-24-2008, 09:36 AM
Well Wizards did say they were leading with FR as D&D 4th main world.

Really maybe the whole end of the world, Destory bunch of stuff, is really just to get rid of things Wizards might be sued over ie stole from other books, might have to pay royalities to, or just nuke some of the favorite place just to change the world enough to get you to want to buy all those new books.

Yes its sounds like Dragonlance all over. Since Eberron is so enjoyable, maybe they are trying to pull new players over.

Fans will run their world however they want.

Once they are enough books and novels out, sure we'll hear how great it is.