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brutology
11-05-2007, 02:01 AM
First lemme say hello this is my first post here but i read the forums alot :)
ok down to the problem
i have a artificer who cant hit the broad side of a barn
i roll like crap so im trying to boost my +1 light crossbow

i wanted to add truestrike (yes i know its uber powerful) however i want to do either charges or 3 uses per day so heres what i came up with for prices and what not

base price is 2000gp (1x1x2000 i went with the higher one as its a powerful spell) cost to craft is 750g(2000/2 - 25% for ext artisian)
xp cost is 80
please tell me i did this right any help would be great

thanks
Brutology

Revolt268
11-08-2007, 03:57 PM
This is for 3.5 correct? Once I get home I will refresh myself on item creatation and let you know. Its been months since I played and that was one of the things I just got into doing, so the rules aren't craved into my head yet like all the others. One thing I would like to point out is really, even if its wrong, it won't matter as long as your GM appoves it. I have had cases where I just wasn't sure how something worked. Me and the GM just worked something out that we and all the other players could agree on. Later on, we would check the rules to see what they really where and decide if we prefer the house rules or the basic ones. But any way, I'll refresh myself on it tonight and hopefully be able to post tonight or tomorrow if you are on the right track or not.

brutology
11-11-2007, 08:17 AM
we have a very small group and all close friends so i think i got it worked out with him and from what i see in the rules its fine. and considering how often i would get to use it i dont think its broken. and if it turns out that it is we will go back and change it :)

ignimbrite
11-12-2007, 07:37 PM
Ok so I don't do a whole lot of item creation but I think you are using the wrong caster level in your formula. You need to be higher than level 1 to create an item like a weapon or a wondrous item.

May I suggest making a Pearl of Truestrike? As a Wondrous Item the breakdown would be something like this:
Spell level 1
Caster level 3

So (1*3*2000) = 6,000 gp
At 3 times per day: (3/5)*6000 = 3600 gp
Using 25% artisan: 2700 gp

XP would be 2700/25 = 108 XP

Hope this helps

Digital Arcanist
11-12-2007, 08:22 PM
Are you playing in Eberron or general setting? Artificers operate differently in that setting.

ignimbrite
11-13-2007, 07:36 PM
mmmm yes, good point, I was using the Eberron rules (craft points not XP) for my suggested formula.


Are you playing in Eberron or general setting? Artificers operate differently in that setting.

Digital Arcanist
11-13-2007, 08:13 PM
Well if you are in the Eberron setting then you can't use True Strike anyway since it is not on the infusions list to begin with. Additionally you can't use Weapon Augmentation on a weapon that is already magical (ie. has a +1 enhancement or higher on it).

Since you added the Expert Artisan feat into your equations I will assume you are using the Eberron artificer class. I don't see True Strike as a viable spell anyway since it gives you a +20 bonus to hit on your next attack and not in the current round.

As a DM I disallow any of the Artisan feats in my campaign since they were designed solely for the Eberron setting and I don't allow Warforged or artificers in my campaigns. The feats work well in the setting but are broken outside of it.

Look up page 215 (I think) in the DM's guide for item creation rules. You will need a special feat to make magical items and the costs are different from what you used. I suggest using a weapon augment crystal listed in the Magic Item Compendium. They are much cheaper and will do what you want.

ignimbrite
11-13-2007, 09:23 PM
ummm yes and no

yes, you should be using the Eberron camapign setting to get maximum artificer goodness and the feat choice implies the use of this setting.

no, you do not need the spell as an infusion to add it to an item or make an item. The Item Creation (Ex) in the Artificer class makes a provision for specifically this case - the example is for a scroll of Magic Missile (which is not on the infusion list). As long as you can make the Use Magic Device checks you can simulate casting the spell to make the item.

yes, I also think that you should not be adding True Strike to the weapon - it is messy and more expensive than my suggestion of a wondrous item or Digital Arcanist's suggestion of a weapon augment crystal (but you need the book to implement that option).



Well if you are in the Eberron setting then you can't use True Strike anyway since it is not on the infusions list to begin with. Additionally you can't use Weapon Augmentation on a weapon that is already magical (ie. has a +1 enhancement or higher on it).

Since you added the Expert Artisan feat into your equations I will assume you are using the Eberron artificer class. I don't see True Strike as a viable spell anyway since it gives you a +20 bonus to hit on your next attack and not in the current round.

As a DM I disallow any of the Artisan feats in my campaign since they were designed solely for the Eberron setting and I don't allow Warforged or artificers in my campaigns. The feats work well in the setting but are broken outside of it.

Look up page 258 (I think) in the DM's guide for item creation rules. You will need a special feat to make magical items and the costs are different from what you used. I suggest using a weapon augment crystal listed in the Magic Item Compendium. They are much cheaper and will do what you want.

Digital Arcanist
11-13-2007, 09:36 PM
Your example of the wand is spot on Ignimbrite but Truestrike does not fit the use he is trying for. Truestrike can't be cast on a weapon but a person rather. I don't think you can have a weapon cast that kind of spell. Usually, a weapon or item can only imbue spells with continuous effects like stat enhancements and such. You of course get into the dicey area of staffs and staves being both weapons and carrying spells and such. I remember reading an article of Sage Advice answering these questions. Hopefully I can find it and post it so we can all know the answer.

ignimbrite
11-13-2007, 11:52 PM
yeah I forgot that weapons cannot do the old spellcasting thing - unless it was an intelligent weapon ;)

prob why your weapon crystal or wondrous item pearl of truestrike (like prayer bead) would be more appropriate

anyway I think we are both on the same page - don't attach the effect to a weapon. Make something else that duplicates what you want. What and how you make it are up for debate :)

Digital Arcanist
11-14-2007, 12:15 AM
yeah I forgot that weapons cannot do the old spellcasting thing - unless it was an intelligent weapon ;)

prob why your weapon crystal or wondrous item pearl of truestrike (like prayer bead) would be more appropriate

anyway I think we are both on the same page - don't attach the effect to a weapon. Make something else that duplicates what you want. What and how you make it are up for debate :)

Gauntlets or bracers of Truestrike would be great as well as goggles. I remember a rule concerning slots and spell uses having to make sense but then WotC goes and changes everything on us constantly. Capes, girdles, helmets, torques, and trinkets wouldn't be suitable.

Personally I recommend crystals because they act like free slots for items and I believe it is only a standard action to change them out. Weapons have 1 slot and armors can hold two or three is I recall correctly.

At this point Brutology, it might be simplest for you to just spend the gold to upgrade the enhancement bonus to your weapon. Ranged weapons always benefit from Seeking. Your Expert Artisan will be handy especially since weapon enhancements are so pricey. The XP cost is not too bad but Legendary Artisan is probably on your list of feats to get anyway.

Normally I would call this a debate but it appears that Ignimbrite and I agree anyway so just do what we say Brutology and no one will get hurt! Capito?

brutology
11-14-2007, 03:27 AM
wow this post was up forever with no replies then it gets hammered. thanks for the help guys. lemme lay it out straight then. im looking to stop missing all the time while shooting my light crossbow. and a +5 enhancment isnt alot when i roll like absolute crap all the time.
that is why i looked at the truestrike spell as i figured i could activate it with a command word and bam next shot doesnt miss.
im open for other suggestions on what would help. i dont have alot of gold in game so that is why i was looking for a low level spell.

well you have given me some ideas and i really appreciate it (oh and yes we are playing eberron)

Farcaster
11-14-2007, 06:25 PM
Hmm.. How much do you have to spend? You're best bet would probably be going for some dexterity increasing items and maybe a set of Bracers of Archery. That'll get you a few extra points to your attack and AC.


Bracers of Archery, Lesser These wristbands function as greater bracers of archery, except that they grant a +1 competence bonus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#competenceModifier) on attack rolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#attackRoll) and no bonus on damage rolls.
Faint transmutation; CL 4th; Craft Wondrous Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftWondrousItem), Craft Magic Arms and Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftMagicArmsAndArmor); Price 5,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Gloves of Dexterity These thin leather gloves are very flexible and allow for delicate manipulation. They add to the wearerís Dexterity score in the form of an enhancement bonus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#enhancementBonus) of +2, +4, or +6. Both gloves must be worn for the magic to be effective.
Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftWondrousItem), catís grace (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/catsGrace.htm); Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6).

Digital Arcanist
11-14-2007, 07:15 PM
Personally I would go with the Gloves of Dexterity. Not only do you get at least a +1 to your attack modifiers but also increases to your AC and dexterity-based skill checks. They are a little pricey but then again I feel the benefits outweigh the costs.

brutology
11-15-2007, 02:12 AM
gloves of dexterity sound like the perfect fit now being im a warforged is there any restrictions on that?
also i can upgrade them later when i get more cash right??

Moritz
11-15-2007, 07:38 AM
Though this post may not be really helpful to the question, I feel it's story time.

Back 4 years ago I was running a D&D game. It was the huge one, up to 14 players on certain nights.

Well, they eventually became powerful and skilled enough to start making their own magic items. It wasn't long after, that the game really started getting out of control. Especially since it's technically cheaper to create an item than it is to purchase it.

So, in my current game, Magic Item Creation just isn't allowed. Solves that problem straight away.

Digital Arcanist
11-15-2007, 11:32 AM
Well Moritz, as a fan of creating my own items....I fart in your general direction!!!!!!

As a DM, I slow down any rampant creation like you saw by making components scarce or requiring components that are impossible to find but hard to procure in nature....like the tears of a Deva. If you want to make a holy weapon, nothing says warm fuzzies from the Creator like the tear of a clown...err....Deva I mean.

Off the top of my head, the only restriction I can remember Brutology is that Warforged can't wear armor but instead must use Armor crystally doo-dads in their socket thingies......and yes thats the technical term!!!! I'm a rocket scientist...believe me!!!!

Moritz
11-15-2007, 11:36 AM
I totally did crystally doo-dads in socket thingies. That was one of the larger focus' of my game. Just to make your stuff better.

Digital Arcanist
11-15-2007, 11:40 AM
Must resist dirty innuendo!!!!!

I cannae give ye' no more captain!!!!

Moritz
11-15-2007, 12:15 PM
Must resist dirty innuendo!!!!!

I cannae give ye' no more captain!!!!

LOL. No more turning threads PG-13+

ignimbrite
11-15-2007, 01:14 PM
14!!!! that is crazy, my old group used to struggle having 8 people.

Why do you think that the item creation got out of control? Didn't the XP loss hamper those crazy magic users?
I mean if it was up to me between a new level (and new spells) vs. a new wand or sword for the fighter-type I choose new level every time .... well unless the rogue threatens to sneak attack me whilst I am asleep.


Though this post may not be really helpful to the question, I feel it's story time.

Back 4 years ago I was running a D&D game. It was the huge one, up to 14 players on certain nights.

Well, they eventually became powerful and skilled enough to start making their own magic items. It wasn't long after, that the game really started getting out of control. Especially since it's technically cheaper to create an item than it is to purchase it.

So, in my current game, Magic Item Creation just isn't allowed. Solves that problem straight away.

Moritz
11-15-2007, 02:14 PM
Our average was around 9-10, including myself. And that worked pretty well.

Item creation got out of control because it was far to easy to make items and XP loss wasn't really that harsh.

NikoONeil
11-25-2007, 02:46 PM
As a member of that group I would like to put in my two cents. The abuse of creating items came into effect at the end of the game where we had lots of money, plenty of time, and the situation of the only enconter let was the big bad dragon. We were able to buy any low cost items with the massive loot we had, and knowing we would not gain another level had no reason not to spend as much xp as possible to make all the high power items we wanted. I belive that Moritz solution to this is a good one for DM to keep item creation under control. That is to use special componets for pre-rects of any creation. This gives the DM enough control over what is made that abuse doesn't happen.

Back to the OP, remember that the guidelines in the DMG are just that, guidelines. The true strike spell is one that breaks the design. It gives you +20 to hit, but only for the next att. In my games it is limited to uses per day (1 to 5) and cost 10K per use to make. This was what we decided was a resonable price for the advantage one recieved from the item. I suspect in Moritz game it could cost more. Discuss with your DM and be sure to explain everything about it, cause nothing a DM dislikes more that to be blindsided buy their players.

Just my thoughts on the issues.
Niko

Moritz
11-26-2007, 04:29 PM
I'd really recommend that anyone take item or spell creation completely out of a game.

If the players want an item, then they should be sent on some extensive quest and talk to NPC's to discover if such an item exits. Then go searching for it and steal it from the clutches of the dead dragon.

Same goes for spells.

Digital Arcanist
11-26-2007, 06:15 PM
I disagree!! Item creation is an important part of the experience. I rarely craft magical items as you need a couple feats to do it but I craft weapons all the time.

If magical item creation becomes a hassle then impose some new rules but to rip that part out of the game is overkill.

At high levels or in a rich campaign players will undoubtedly have a lot of wealth burning holes in their pouches, but as a DM you should push them towards pursuits of worth like investment in a meeting place or into their profession.

I often purchase ships to create a business or if I am a magic user I have been known to open bardic colleges or magic schools with my wealth.

Moritz
11-27-2007, 09:32 AM
In my last game one of the players (a dwarf) built a fortress along the major trade route in and out of town to give support to protection and promoting trade. In doing so, he also was given tax breaks from the monarchy.

Digital Arcanist
11-27-2007, 10:29 AM
That is the sort of thing that develops characters and gives opportunity for a side quest in case you haven't figured something out in the intervening weeks

Malruhn
11-27-2007, 08:00 PM
In my last game one of the players (a dwarf) built a fortress along the major trade route in and out of town to give support to protection and promoting trade. In doing so, he also was given tax breaks from the monarchy.
I agree with DA - it's stupid things like this that help develop both characters AND campaign worlds!!

Think about it logically:
I'm the king, and have a major trade-route that goes to Somewheresville. Some no-named (okay, I've heard a couple GOOD things about him) dwarf decides to build a keep along the way and help protect the caravans. If I can get a pledge of fealty from this upstart, I can't come up with ANY reasons not to both grant him the lands and/or title to keep my money flowing. Can anyone come up with any reasons?

Moritz, bravo for you and for the player. Good on both of you!! (wanna move down to Alabama so I can play??)

brutology
11-28-2007, 01:55 AM
we built an inn with all our xtra loots once had more fun rping crazy stuff that happened there than getting all the loot in the first place. by crazy stuff can you imagine a multi racial naked congo line???? led by the dwarf of all things. it was a blast.

ignimbrite
11-28-2007, 07:48 AM
wow, that sounds crazy good fun!

Digital Arcanist
11-28-2007, 08:28 PM
we built an inn with all our xtra loots once had more fun rping crazy stuff that happened there than getting all the loot in the first place. by crazy stuff can you imagine a multi racial naked congo line???? led by the dwarf of all things. it was a blast.



No...no no no no no....why would I ever want to imagine that? What is wrong with you?:eek::p

Moritz
11-30-2007, 12:29 PM
I agree with DA - it's stupid things like this that help develop both characters AND campaign worlds!!

Think about it logically:
I'm the king, and have a major trade-route that goes to Somewheresville. Some no-named (okay, I've heard a couple GOOD things about him) dwarf decides to build a keep along the way and help protect the caravans. If I can get a pledge of fealty from this upstart, I can't come up with ANY reasons not to both grant him the lands and/or title to keep my money flowing. Can anyone come up with any reasons?

Moritz, bravo for you and for the player. Good on both of you!! (wanna move down to Alabama so I can play??)

Dude, Bama? Texas has got prettier girls (oh and we beat GB last night). You're welcome to come out this way and play with us though.

For the most part, my game is just kicking off. I'm totally keeping it low magic. The players can totally min-max their stats, I even let them roll for an hour to get the characteristic set they wanted (4d6, drop the lowest - roll till you're happy). But we're staying safe with the magic item creation.

Now if I were going to be throwing massive overpowering monsters at them it might have been a different story. But I'm gonna keep them in specialized and named stuff.

What I mean by that is, every magic item left over in my world is a relic or artifact. All the mudane +1, +4 bla bla bla's are gone. So, when the Cleric finds a magical weapon, it will be something like, "Grannal's Mace of Holy Wraith" and it will have a + to attack as well as some other qualities, like +3 wisdom and +3 vs Undead and be intelligent. Most of the magic items will have intelligence.

The Warrior's Sword will most likely be, "Blade of Fate" - Named that by the blade itself, it will have plusses, giving Strength to the Fighter and also talk smack the entire time it's drawn. IE: "You're gonna let that orc hit you, oh I don't even think so, use me dammit, hit him again, yeah, bring it you stupid dragon, my fighter will use me to kick your lilly white butt."