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View Full Version : Which Ability Scores are Most / Least Important?



Ed Zachary
07-30-2007, 01:10 PM
I know that it depends on class as to which are the most important. But hypothetically speaking if you were to roll up 20 characters from different classes, which abilities would you tend to put the higher scores in, and which do you generally neglect?

Charisma would probably be the most neglected, followed by Wisdom.

Karui_Kage
07-30-2007, 01:27 PM
The most important score is subjective, as it would vary from class to class.

Least important score? It depends on what party you were trying to build. Probably charisma or intelligence, as you rarely need more than one 'face man' or 'skill b****'. Maybe even strength.

I'm a bit on the opposite end, myself, but I can see it working out that way with an 'optimized' party. Constitution is important to everyone for hit points, Dexterity for AC and ranged to hit (and even melee to hit with Weapon Finesse), and Wisdom for will saves, spot checks, listen checks, etc. Strength would be on the high end for tanks and such, but depending on how many of those their were, might be towards the bottom.

Overall, I'd say it went like this:
Most Important
Constitution
Dexterity
Strength / Wisdom
Intelligence
Charisma
Least Important

Moritz
07-30-2007, 01:30 PM
Doesn't matter, I rolled all 18's!

Moritz
07-30-2007, 01:35 PM
Charisma is definitely at the bottom of my list unless I'm a Sorcerer. Even if I'm a Cleric, I neglect it because the Turn Undead chance/effect sucks unless you're in your teens and have a 30 Cha. Perhaps for a Paladin it's alright to benefit your saves, but eah.

Constitution, like with Karui is at the top of my list. It helps with survivability.

Then Dexterity/Strength/Intelligence/Wisdom comes in second depending on whether or not your a ranged, hand to hand combatant, wizard, or cleric. Heck, with Wizard, being a d4, Intelligence may be at the top of the list because you're gonna die if a giant sneezes on you.

Karui_Kage
07-30-2007, 01:43 PM
In more depth, going from 'most valued' to 'least valued' and assuming all humans with the standard 11 classes:

Barbarian: STR, CON, DEX, WIS, INT, CHA
Bard: CHA, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, STR
Cleric: WIS, CON, DEX, STR, INT, CHA
Druid: WIS, CHA, CON, INT, DEX, STR
Fighter: STR, CON, DEX, WIS, INT, CHA
Monk: DEX, CON, WIS, STR, INT, CHA
Paladin: STR, CON, CHA, WIS, DEX, INT
Ranger: DEX, CON, WIS, STR, CHA, INT
Rogue: DEX, INT, CON, WIS, CHA, STR
Sorcerer: CHA, DEX, CON, WIS, INT, STR
Wizard: INT, DEX, CON, WIS, CHA, STR

Totaling up the points, 6 for most valuable, 1 for least valuable, the end totals become:

STR = 6+1+3+1+6+3+6+3+1+1+1= 32
DEX = 4+5+4+2+4+6+2+6+6+5+5= 49
CON = 5+4+5+4+5+5+5+5+4+4+4= 50
INT = 2+3+2+3+2+2+1+1+5+2+6= 29
WIS = 3+2+6+6+3+4+3+4+3+3+3= 40
CHA = 1+6+1+5+1+1+4+2+2+6+2 = 31

So, end results become:
Most Valuable
CON
DEX
WIS
STR
CHA
INT
Least Valuable

Overall, the only difference between this list and my original guess is that Charisma is more valuable than Intelligence. I can see why. Bards and Sorcerers use it as their primary spellcasting, Paladins make good use of it. The only class that uses Intelligence primarily is the Wizard, for everyone else, it's just bonus skill points. Some may change a couple things of the order I picked, but overall, those preferences seem to be the norm for the majority of player's I've had.

Moritz
07-30-2007, 01:46 PM
Well then, someone just got all technical on us :)

Ed Zachary
07-30-2007, 01:53 PM
I like playing Wizards, so I usually take a high INT by default. But for role playing I like to have alot of skills, so INT is important for all my characters.

Here's someone who rolled really low on intelligence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B-IWVUikHM&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwc1%2Eworldcrossing%2Ecom%2FWebX %3F14%40%40%2E1de318dc)

Karui_Kage
07-30-2007, 01:56 PM
Haha. Too true.

I can be the same way, I do like a high Int. In general though, it's on the low end of 'overall good' abilities. Wisdom ranks higher because of its use with Willpower, and some of the more common skills (Spot, Listen). Intelligence is very useful for Wizards and Rogues, but only a nifty boost for anyone else. It's definitely on the low end for any tank, and can even be on the low end for a rogue (after all, they already have 8+).

Rain_Spider_08
07-30-2007, 02:18 PM
High intelligence is the most important to me, I'm a skill points freak

Karui_Kage
07-30-2007, 02:25 PM
So if you were playing a Fighter, and rolled an 18, 15, 13, 12, 11, and 8, you would put the 18 in Intelligence? :)

Ed Zachary
07-30-2007, 02:41 PM
So if you were playing a Fighter, and rolled an 18, 15, 13, 12, 11, and 8, you would put the 18 in Intelligence?

STR: 18 (+4)
CON: 15 (+2)
DEX: 13 (+1)
INT: 12 (+1)
WIS: 11 (+0)
CHA: 08 (-1)

Karui_Kage
07-30-2007, 02:51 PM
I would switch the Wis and Int, but otherwise I agree. I was saying that towards Rain Spider, since he said high intelligence was the most important.

starfalconkd
07-30-2007, 06:32 PM
Hmmm, tough question. For me:
Dex - Don't get hit.
Int - Make brilliant plan to avoid getting hit. Have lots of skill points.
Chr - Smile while not getting hit. Be an effective leader.
Con - Just in case you get hit.
Wis - To pad the will save a bit.
Str - Meh, whatever. This is why they invented Bull's Strength.
Did I mention I like bards?

In the fighter example:
Str:15 (fighter smash, but not as good as other guy)
Dex:12 (comfortable in heavy armor, increase later for dodge chain)
Con:18 (lots of hp)
Int:13 (combat expertise and prep for whirlwind attack)
Wis:11 (increase and buy iron will to pad will save)
Chr:8 (fighter kill good, not have much personality)
Stat increases go: str, dex, wis, str, str

Rain_Spider_08
07-30-2007, 07:20 PM
I would switch the Wis and Int, but otherwise I agree. I was saying that towards Rain Spider, since he said high intelligence was the most important.

I'm a she not a he, and I'd never play a fighter. I prefer Int due to my love of skill points.

shilar
07-31-2007, 04:20 PM
I'm with rain spider. A lot of problems with other stats can be made up for with good feat selection and a good plan. Give me the skills baby. Dex and con are next for me because I usually end up the party mine detector. Need those high saves.

Moritz
07-31-2007, 04:34 PM
Poor Shilar, you should tell them to quit throwing you into the mine field. I mean, you can stand up for your rights.

Argent
08-01-2007, 08:01 AM
My hands-down favourite class is the rogue, so Dex, Cha and Int are important to me. But if I have to skimp on one of them as a rogue, I'll take the lower Dex, actually. For the types of rogue I usually play, Int and Cha are most important; Bluff well enough and you'll never need your Dex to get out of a fight. ;)

Moritz
08-01-2007, 08:09 AM
I've had a few players that favor playing archers. They drop everything into Dex and never really have the use for things like Con because if they're getting hit, they're too close to the battle. They'd just pick off the enemies from great distances and never worry much about anything else.

shilar
08-02-2007, 08:35 AM
I would stand up for my rights if it were the other players doing it. I had one DM who designed trap corridors and then railroaded us into them. literally one trap every 5 feet, on every surface. walls and ceiling had their own traps Being the party rouge(who was supposed to be more spy than dungeon delver). One time I got so irritated with this I just kicked the barbarian into the corridor and let him set them all off.

Farcaster
08-02-2007, 12:24 PM
A bag of tricks is the usual standby, but I suppose a Barbarian works just as well. ;)

Rain_Spider_08
08-02-2007, 12:35 PM
I would stand up for my rights if it were the other players doing it. I had one DM who designed trap corridors and then railroaded us into them. literally one trap every 5 feet, on every surface. walls and ceiling had their own traps Being the party rouge(who was supposed to be more spy than dungeon delver). One time I got so irritated with this I just kicked the barbarian into the corridor and let him set them all off.

lmao what did the barbarian player think of that afterwards? :D

shilar
08-03-2007, 12:08 AM
Last time he said I whined to much about all the traps. Still It didn't kill him(I was supprised) so he didn't get too upset. Besides since I'd already taken an ear from his character he gave me a wide berth anyways. It was kind of funny I was playing our DMs home brewed race tree elves(think halfling with opposable toes), little even for my race, pushing around a big 7 foot barbarian.

Moritz
08-03-2007, 08:37 AM
I love pit traps with spikes and carrion crawlers hanging out in them.

shilar
08-03-2007, 12:53 PM
spiked pits, collapsing ceilings, poison darts, and maybe even one of those big swinging blade things. And thats just one 5 foot section of a 50 foot corridor. That poor elf needed therapy after a couple of these things.

Ed Zachary
08-03-2007, 01:03 PM
Green Slime from a collapsing ceiling.

shilar
08-03-2007, 01:09 PM
I always like chain lightning on a trigger in small spaces. bouncy bouncy. One party I was in had a dwarf that got hit like 5 times by the same trap. Luckily he had a lot of hit points.

Malruhn
10-14-2007, 10:39 PM
I have to ride the fence on this one. It depends entirely on what I am playing.

My only rule is that my INT has to be at least a 13. That's it. Other than that, I can, and HAVE played anything. My favorite was a fighter with a 12 STR - and that was his highest stat. I loved that guy... *sniff* until he died at 7th level.

starfalconkd
10-15-2007, 09:51 AM
I can understand that, playing someone dumber than you can be very difficult.

Inquisitor Tremayne
10-15-2007, 10:44 AM
I always work from a character concept.

That said I looooove having skills so a high Int is a priority unless I rolled poorly then Cha and Int becoming my dumping stats. I tend to shy away from social situations in-game so Cha is alway my dump stat.

If I had to rank them it would go something like this: Dex and Int tied for first, Con second, Wis third, Str in fourth, and Cha last.

Magis
10-17-2007, 10:37 AM
I'm glad to hear there are so many other int monkeys out there, my local group often criticizes me for my "skill fetish". Even my fighters have high int. Here's how I rank the skills based on what I'm playing (just gonna use the four archetypes):

Fighter: Str, Con, Int, Dex, Wis, Cha
Rogue: Int, Dex, Cha, Con, Str, Wis
Cleric: Wis, Con, Str, Cha, Int, Dex
Wizard: Int, Con, Dex, Wis/Cha/Str in any order

overall, as you can see, int and con are my favorite stats (can't cast spells/sneak attack/power attack if you're too dead to do it, and dex don't save you all the time).



--- Magis

MortonStromgal
10-17-2007, 03:16 PM
Rogue: DEX, INT, CON, WIS, CHA, STR


Personal Opinion I would put INT infront of DEX on the Rogue.

For the fighter I would play this:
Str:18 (damage baby)
Dex:12 (full plate will still let me have a +1)
Con:8 (thats what the d10 is for)
Int:13 (great feats with int 13)
Wis:11 (decent)
Chr:15 (leading the way)

I should probably put I mostly want a high charisma as a fighter for this
Feinting in Combat: You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in melee combat (so that it can’t dodge your next attack effectively). To feint (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/specialAttacks.html#feint), make a Bluff check opposed by your target’s Sense Motive check, but in this case, the target may add its base attack bonus to the roll along with any other applicable modifiers. If your Bluff check result exceeds this special Sense Motive check result, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for the next melee attack you make against it. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.
Feinting in this way against a nonhumanoid is difficult because it’s harder to read a strange creature’s body language; you take a –4 penalty on your Bluff check. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2) it’s even harder; you take a –8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it’s impossible.
Feinting in combat does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Its mostly for rogues but good for fighters to.


Oh and I forgot this one...

Demoralize Opponent: You can also use Intimidate to weaken an opponent’s resolve in combat. To do so, make an Intimidate check opposed by the target’s modified level check (see above). If you win, the target becomes shaken (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html#shaken) for 1 round. A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. You can intimidate only an opponent that you threaten in melee combat and that can see you.

starfalconkd
10-18-2007, 06:21 AM
18 strength and 8 constitution? Eeeek. What would you look like? A big, strong guy with a serious breathing problem? 8 con would be -1 hp/die. As a fighter that is seriously bad news. Since your up front in most fights you'll be dead very quickly.

InfoStorm
10-18-2007, 09:15 AM
I've never chimed in on this one, before, but I might as well but my 2 cp in.

Which ability score is least important, depends ENTIRELY on the character concept. Most of the time it calls to Str, Wis or Cha, except where the classes need those scores. This is not a rule though. I've made barbarians with higher Cha, sorcerer's with higher Wis or Str, etc etc. Which score is the "dump stat" varies entirely on the concept of said character. Feel free to look at my menagere of critters in the articles and see if I do have a common low stat.

MortonStromgal
10-22-2007, 11:52 AM
18 strength and 8 constitution? Eeeek. What would you look like? A big, strong guy with a serious breathing problem? 8 con would be -1 hp/die. As a fighter that is seriously bad news. Since your up front in most fights you'll be dead very quickly.

How to answer this, well yes you could look at it that way or you could also see it as the big bouncer who hits hard but goes down with a couple punches. As for the death its not usually a problem. I try to work off of getting the highest AC possible, there are some things (like touch attacks) where I still might get screwed but I rely on my party to help out. I also don't usually have an 18 in anything so I made due with scores available. The way I see it with a d10 every level loosing 1 hp shouldn't matter that much (unless your rolling 1s) now if your the type to put the 18 in con then thats loosing 5 hp per level compared with the 8 con at which point that is a huge split.

starfalconkd
10-23-2007, 08:59 AM
If I was playing a fighter I'd want at least a 14 Con to feel secure enough that I won't get splattered.

Revolt268
11-15-2007, 04:18 PM
I tend to go after the higher AC then hp route. I would have to say that my favorite stat is DEX no matter the class I play, the second always depends on what class I am playing, Pally and Sorc i go for the CHA next, while a monk I go for WIS. I would say the two stats that I over look the most are INT and CON, depending on what class I am playing and what my role in the group will be. So I guess here would me mine from favorite to least: DEX>CHA>WIS>STR>INT>CON.

Grinnen Baeritt
11-16-2007, 08:17 PM
I guess it depends on whether you are role-playing your stats or rules-playing your stats....

It might be the reverse of what you might expect..

CHR, INT and WIS become a lot more useful for survivability if your stats are being roleplayed...

CHR = 3. "Bog Off Dragon...."
CHR = 18. "Wow, that's a beautiful sheen you have on those scales"

INT = 3. "Whats a Dragon?"
INT =18. "That is where there is going to be a Blue Dragon Lair."

WIS = 3. "Great! A Dragon Lair! Let's go take a look!"
WIS = 18. "Perhaps Not..."

My personal Favourites from most important to least are DEX, INT, CHR, CON, WIS, STR

Digital Arcanist
11-16-2007, 10:21 PM
I have to agree with Grinnen's list although I put charisma after wisdom in the listing.

I like to make sure my characters have the best modifiers for saves that they can. These days I find that hitting more often is preferable to hitting harder.

GC13
11-16-2007, 10:29 PM
I'm so addicted to skill points, I've come to think of 14 INT as a bare minimum (as a human, none the less)... WIS and CHA though I predictably don't care much for unless they're my casting stat, though I try to get them to 10 at least.

The physical stats are so boring compared to the mental stats though. "*sigh* Sure, I'll take 14 dex/con I guess. Yeah, sure, I'll put my odd attribute as STR to take advantage of the extra carry weight. </bored>"