Favorite Generic/Universal Systems

[fmitchell]

Following a trend in other sections, I'm going to ask: what's your favorite generic/universal game system? And why?

[fmitchell]

BTW, I forgot OGL and other d20, so if you want, lump those into "d20 Modern".

[PhishStyx]

I voted for Unisystem. The reason I prefer it is that of the listed systems that I'm familiar with, Unisystem is among the simplest, fastest running games, which is what I want. . . a game that runs like the wind and hits like a lightning strike. :p

[fmitchell]

. . . a game that runs like the wind and hits like a lightning strike.

Which is why I voted for FATE. I'm in a FATE game now, and it runs very fast: one (sometimes opposed) die roll for every PC or NPC action, which also determines the severity of "consequences" the loser takes from a conflict. The fact that a conflict could be a gun battle, a dog fight, a chess game, an interrogation, or whatever is a definite plus.

For what it's worth, PDQ is a close second, with GURPS and BRP/RQ tying for third. I've yet to play Unisystem or Savage Worlds, but they seem light enough for my purposes.

Conversely, I played a whole bunch of HERO in college and after, and d20 more recently; they've just got too much crunch for me.

[PhishStyx]

I know that FATE gets a lot of interest on RPG.net, but I have a hard time justifying buying the special dice, knowing that none of my players would have them.

I know there are rule options for using regular dice, but that involves a conversion of its own, slowing things down some. Moreover, I've always had trouble with that whole + and - thing on the dice. Getting useful information out of WEG's DC Universe Batman/Superman dice was a pain enough, and I don't foresee this being easier somehow.

I like Rob's & Fred's writing a lot, but the dice thing is a hard one for me to get past. Now that said, if someone wanted to run it, I'd play it without hesitation. The only (real) game I won't play anymore is Hero/Champions.

[Skunkape]

I voted for GURPS only because it's the one listed that I've had the most experience with. I've been looking at Savage Worlds lately and also have All Flesh, which uses the Unisystem, and they look good as well, but I don't have nearly the same amount of experience with those systems.

[Farcaster]

I had to go GURPs as well. I did take a look at d20 Modern, but I couldn't get myself past the level based system for the futuristic/supers type game that I wanted to run. By the way, HERO is a generic system? My memory of it must be a bit foggy, because I thought it was a super-heroic type game.

[fmitchell]

I had to go GURPs as well. I did take a look at d20 Modern, but I couldn't get myself past the level based system for the futuristic/supers type game that I wanted to run. By the way, HERO is a generic system? My memory of it must be a bit foggy, because I thought it was a super-heroic type game.

Hero has been positioning itself as a more or less generic system for a while now, ever since Justice, Inc. They've got a bunch of genre-specific books: Fantasy Hero, Pulp Hero, Star Hero, Ninja Hero, ... However, I've seen a few fantasy characters built on the Hero system, and they strike me as superheroes with a fantasy theme. System really does matter.

[Skunkape]

Hero has been positioning itself as a more or less generic system for a while now, ever since Justice, Inc. They've got a bunch of genre-specific books: Fantasy Hero, Pulp Hero, Star Hero, Ninja Hero, ... However, I've seen a few fantasy characters built on the Hero system, and they strike me as superheroes with a fantasy theme. System really does matter.

I've always gotten that feeling with the Hero System as well. I know they've tried to make it more of a generic game system, but it does seem to make the fantasy heroes seem like supers. I do like the way they handle modern/future action oriented characters though.

I've played plenty of those kinds, not just spy versions, but private eye/mercenary types and they never felt like supers to me when I play/ran those kinds of games.

Course as much as I like GURPS, the system doesn't quite do it for me when used in a supers setting. For some reason, Champions is the only system that seems to fit that bill for me. Course, I like 4-color level games for playing supers so that probably has something to do with that opinion!:D

[Brian Vilarino]

I'd have to say my favorited would be D20 Modern. A lot of people can't stand it. IMHO, it' provides quick combat resolution, it's not really a clunky system as Palladiums is, and it's a great "Doorway" rpg. People who are coming out of playing D&D will find it a lot easier to move into other genres through it as well. I like HERO system as well, for is versatility in character creation. But, and maybe it's just because of the GM's I've played with, Combat resolution takes forever.

[fmitchell]

I'd have to say my favorited would be D20 Modern. A lot of people can't stand it.

I'm actually one of those people. First off, I'm biased toward skill-based systems like GURPS, RuneQuest/BRP, and Fudge/FATE; classes and levels seem too restrictive.

Of course, if the classes make sense, I'll play d20 ... but "Smart Hero"? "Strong Hero"? A better approach would have been to base classes on roles within society or within a modern-day adventuring group ... but no, professional specializations are "advanced classes" that you can only pick at third level (when you're allowed to have 6 ranks in a skill).

Have you taken a look at True20? It's a simplified d20 that, among other things, breaks down the multitude of classes into three "roles": Adept (magic/psychic powers), Expert (skills), and Warrior (combat bonuses). The True20 Companion also introduces a point-based "build your own role" system.

Or what about Mutants and Masterminds, True20's precursor? It's slanted toward super-heroes, but perhaps a "powered-down" version might work. (I've never tried to crunch the numbers; I suspect it would look a lot like True20 with more math.)

I like HERO system as well, for is versatility in character creation. But, and maybe it's just because of the GM's I've played with, Combat resolution takes forever.

No, it's the system. I played a bunch of HERO back in college, and it always slowed to a crawl in combat ... or when somebody started configuring his power pool.

[Skunkape]

or when somebody started configuring his power pool.

Our house rule was that you had to have powers configured prior to trying to use them to keep play moving, if you weren't ready to go with a minimum of wait, when it was your turn, you lost it.:D

But yeah, that's one sure way to kill the momentum of the game!

[fmitchell]

Our house rule was that you had to have powers configured prior to trying to use them to keep play moving, if you weren't ready to go with a minimum of wait, when it was your turn, you lost it.

Heck, I remember one session back at our base almost totally consumed with the gadgeteers configuring their gadget pools. Even out-of-combat, it's not fun.

[Brian Vilarino]

I'm actually one of those people. First off, I'm biased toward skill-based systems like GURPS, RuneQuest/BRP, and Fudge/FATE; classes and levels seem too restrictive.


I'm not really biased one way or the other. There are skill based systems I love. More recently Dogs in the Vinyard. I could never really get into GURPS although, I have lots of friends that love it. I love Rune Quest but haven't played it in years.

Of course, if the classes make sense, I'll play d20 ... but "Smart Hero"? "Strong Hero"? A better approach would have been to base classes on roles within society or within a modern-day adventuring group ... but no, professional specializations are "advanced classes" that you can only pick at third level (when you're allowed to have 6 ranks in a skill).


I totally agree with you. I would have liked it a lot more if they had the classes based on different roles in society.

As for True20, I've picked it up, but really haven't had a chance to read through it yet. I'd plan to though. I just haven't had the time with the current game that I'm running.

[Moritz]

Hate HERO

d20 Modern? Maybe.

Everything else on the list.... not really sure I've played any of them. So, eah, my vote shouldn't count.

[fmitchell]

I know there are rule options for using regular dice, but that involves a conversion of its own, slowing things down some. Moreover, I've always had trouble with that whole + and - thing on the dice. Getting useful information out of WEG's DC Universe Batman/Superman dice was a pain enough, and I don't foresee this being easier somehow.

FUDGE always uses 4 dice, each marked '+', blank, or '-'; subtract the minuses (if any) from the plusses (if any), and you get a number between -4 and +4, with 0 being the most common. Modify a relevant ability with that amount, and that's your roll. I can't do math in my head, but even I can't screw that one up.

As for buying the funny dice, see Baby's First Fudge Dice (http://www.fudgefactor.org/2001/12/01/babys_first_fudge_dice.html), which shows you how to (permanently) turn an ordinary d6 into a Fudge die.

[thedragongoddess]

From the games I've played so far, not many yet, I've found that I like GURPS the best. For someone starting out, it's an easier system to learn. I've played some DnD and WoD, liking WoD better, and I found them both to be alot harder to figure out damage and soaking and such. But all in all, DnD character making is a pain in the butt. GURPS was so much easier to make a character with. You're given a total amount of points from your GM and you pick what advantages you want as well as skills and disadvantages.

I'm speaking strictly as a player here, a newer one at that, and I found GURPS to be less confusing. You simply roll 3d6 for pretty much everything except damage and instead of having to count your successes, usually at a difficulty of 7 or 8, or having to add your die roll to your skill roll and such, you just add the dice and make sure your roll is under your skill. I started out roleplaying with WoD online and it kept confusing me, though I'm getting better at it now. I've only played DnD with a group a few times, and though I was getting to like it, I kept going back to GURPS.

Maybe it was my GM's that were making the game better for me. I got very lucky and the 2 GM's I've had for GURPS were absolutely AWESOME!! They knew the books like the backs of their hands and the settings and stories they came up with were just great and very challenging.

When I created my first GURPS character, the only thing I was adamant about was I wanted her to be part dragon and to be able to fly without wings. Voila! I got what I wanted with ease.

Anyway... that's my humble opinion.

[ronpyatt]

I have to say PDQ and Fudge/FATE are my choice systems, but I choose PDQ over FATE for the dice (2d6).

I like the Fudge dice, but it has been difficult for my players to wrap their minds around using + and - for rolls. I would liked to have seen a straight 3d6 version done without a conversion table.

[fmitchell]

I like the Fudge dice, but it has been difficult for my players to wrap their minds around using + and - for rolls. I would liked to have seen a straight 3d6 version done without a conversion table.

Fudge dice are equivalent to 4d3-8, so you could roll 2d3 - 2d3 (2 black d3 and 2 white d3, subtract black total from white total) and get the same distribution.

Fudge v2 has an appendix on a d6 version of FATE. (e.g. Mediocre is 1d6, Average is 2d6, etc. against a difficulty from 1 {negligible} to 30+ {revolutionary}.) You could go back to that if you don't like funny dice at all.

If you like fixed dice, I'm sure there's some way to calibrate a 3d6 scale to produce something like FUDGE results, e.g compare 3d6 + 2*levels above average against 10 + 2*difficulty above average. However, that means a difficulty four above your ability is nearly impossible, and four below your ability automatic.

[fmitchell]

FUDGE itself has rolling methods for 3d6 and 4d6. See this copy (http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/frp/fudge/fudge3.html#sec3.22), among others.

The 3d6 method is almost like mine, except that 4 and 17 count as -/+ 4. The 4d6 version is conceptually simple, but a bit difficult to explain or justify to players used to a simple d20.

[fmitchell]

So, no love for Savage Worlds or BRP/MRQ?

[Skunkape]

I'm more inclined to change my vote from GURPS to Savage Worlds since I've re-read the rules. Course, I've explained all of that in my post on the Savage Worlds thread.

[teckno72]

I picked D20, but I'd be much more likely to convert it to the World of Darkness games. They're universal enough for me. :cool:

[Webhead]

My favorite generic RPG systems in (VERY rough) order of preference:

1) Unisystem (particularly Cinematic Unisystem)
2) FATE 3.0
3) Risus
4) PDQ

I really, really like FATE and would be tempted to vote it as my current favorite generic system. The only thing really stopping me is that it is so different from more traditional RPG rules-systems that not everyone "gets" it right away. I'm running a "Deadlands" campaign using FATE and my players are having fun, but I don't think they've quite grokked to the way Aspects behave within the game. That said, Aspects are probably the single coolest design element in any RPG ever! I seriously dig on the idea of them and am tempted to plug them into other game systems. They're that cool...but they can be tricky for some folks.

Cinematic Unisystem is one of my faves. It takes the already no-nonsense simplified mechanics of Unisystem and then makes it even faster and easier to run. For gosh sakes, the GM doesn't even have to roll any dice! I love it!

I love both Risus and PDQ for much the same reasons as they are built on rather similar design philosophies. I think Risus rests a bit closer to my heart but that may just be because I discovered it many years before I ever heard about PDQ. A friend of mine asked me to run a Risus game out of the blue a while back. I can't wait to do it! If he enjoyed it that much, I really need to make that my goal.

Not much of a fan of d20 Modern, GURPS or HERO. The first felt a bit too constrained by d20 tropes and the latter two always had a bit more crunch than I prefered. Never played more than a game or two of any of them, so this is mostly an objective assessment of my reaction reading through the corebooks.

Oh, and I haven't played Savage Worlds yet, but by every indication, I really ought to.

[trechriron]

So, no love for Savage Worlds or BRP/MRQ?

I love it!! Just awesome fun.

[squidyak]

What, no Alternity love?

[tesral]

I've seen a few fantasy characters built on the Hero system, and they strike me as superheroes with a fantasy theme. System really does matter.

Hero started life as "Champions". A superhero game and the point/skills balance still favors that. Writing up normals is chunky.

GURPS is a Heroic game and the point/skills balance favors that. You can do superheroic with it, but you're better off playing Hero.

System can matter.

[Webhead]

System can matter.

Yep.

[MortonStromgal]

I'm going to say BRP even though all I've played is Cthuhlu because I like it better than GURPS which is my favorite generic system.

[Bearfoot_Adam]

I have to agre wit hone of the first posts in going for unisystem. It's an easy system to pick up and you can still do big heroic things. I'm just starting ot really look into gurps and am likeing it so maybe that will change my choice.

[Law Dog]

Hero started life as "Champions". A superhero game and the point/skills balance still favors that. Writing up normals is chunky.

GURPS is a Heroic game and the point/skills balance favors that. You can do superheroic with it, but you're better off playing Hero.

System can matter.

Right on the money. GURPS supers seems wonky. HERO agent level and below seems not differentiated enough (i.e. my STR of 13 and your STR of 15 aren't really too different).

Of course, if your are looking at strictly genre emulation, I still think that Marvel Super Heroes RPG (FASERIP) simulates whats on the comic book page better than anything. (Obviously Spidey was out of karma the night Gwen Stacy died :biggrin:).

[Webhead]

...Of course, if your are looking at strictly genre emulation, I still think that Marvel Super Heroes RPG (FASERIP) simulates whats on the comic book page better than anything. (Obviously Spidey was out of karma the night Gwen Stacy died :biggrin:).

Loved MSH. Great supers game. Wish I could play/run it again in the near future. Would probably need different players though. Not that it wouldn't be "fun" with the current group, they just prefer to play angsty, anti-hero types. Not exactly the kind of thing I have in mind...