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Inquisitor Tremayne
07-24-2007, 11:49 PM
What to do with a Cleric.

I have an 8th level Cleric of Pelor who just leveled to 9th. I've always played her as a warrior of her faith first, healer second, and spellcaster third. Mostly because the group needed a fighter AND a healer when I joined a couple of years ago.

That said, What should I level up to? I have all the requirements for the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC and the Hunter of the Dead PrC. Thats about it. Plus there aren't anyother PrCs that really fit or that I am interested in or that I have come across, my D&D book selection is thin. I was thinking fighter to gain some feats. The party suggests getting access to 5th level spells. Even though there are some great ones at 5th level I see her more as a combat character. She doesn't support the group with her spells, I only select spells that boost her up in combat.

Anyway, I'm looking for something that will increase my BaB, give me more feats, and if possible increase spellcasting ability.

Thanks

Skunkape
07-25-2007, 06:31 AM
You could take a level or two as a fighter. Remember, most if not all PrCs only have 10 levels, so if you start any PrCs at 9th, you'll be 18 or 19 and be at the end of the PrC advancement. Now that's not to say that you can't do another PrC or that you'll even have the character at that level, but if you take 2 levels of fighter, so you're 11th when you start your PrC, you'll have 2 levels to get some decent fighter feats. Just make sure you plan out what your 2 levels will be.

Argent
07-25-2007, 07:43 AM
Fighter levels would definitely help you in combat, and it couldn't hurt you to take a couple. Radiant Servant gives you some nifty new ways of hurting creatures, too. Mostly slanted towards undead or creatures of the dark, but getting an extra domain is nothing to sneeze at either. And it allows continued spell progression.

So I'd suggest Fighter until Lvl. 11, then Radiant Servant 'til Pelor calls you home! ;)

Ed Zachary
07-25-2007, 08:12 AM
Beside being servants of their deity, clerics are divine spell casters first and foremost. The fifth level spells are really good, I would go to 9th level cleric at a minimum. If you were to select a prestige class (not my area of expertise), take one that still allows you to progress in cleric spells (as Argent posted above).

starfalconkd
07-25-2007, 09:25 AM
If you are a combat cleric, you absolutely need those 5th level spells so you can cast righteous might. This makes you an absolute terror on the battlefield and, when combined with divine power and divine favor, makes you outstrip the party fighter. Radiant Servant is a turning/healing class, that doesn't sound like who you are so you might want to avoid it. I would suggest learning Extend Spell at this level if you do not already know it, quicken spell at 12th, and persistent spell at 15th. Your spell set up should include the following: 5th level slot(s):Righteous Might and Extend Divine Power if you have a second slot and quicken divine favor if/when you have the feat and an available slot. As the levels become available Extend Righteous Might (6th) and Persistent Divine Favor (7th). The Persistent Divine Favor is excellent, it's a 24 hour +3 to attack and damage as long as it does not get dispelled.
Other good feat suggestions are Shielded Casting from Races of Stone if you have Combat Casting (basically you cast holding your shield and do not provoke attacks of opportunity), Divine Might (Complete Warrior if you qualify), Divine Shield (same thing), Divine Vigor (same), and Divine Armor (from PHB II).
Also, if you plan on taking fighter levels, I'd take only one or two and one of your feats should definitely be Power Attack. But, if you want to take a combat class I recommend Paladin if your alignment allows, it would fit better than fighter.

Inquisitor Tremayne
07-25-2007, 10:18 AM
Thanks for the suggestions.

I still don't know what to do. I'm thinking Radiant Servant 1 because I get a level of spellcasting,some nice special abilities, and my bab doesn't increase but it wouldn't anyway if I went cleric 9.

Then 2 levels of fighter for a couple of bonus feats then back into the Radiant Servant. The Paladin suggestion is a good one though but she is NG not LG.

We are in a dungeon right now and we are about to teleport to a nearby village where we will actually level up, then I am talking to my DM about ROLEplaying her so that she feels a call to make a pilgrimage to a temple of Pelor so that she may level up as a Radiant Servant and come back more devout and more of a, well, Radiant Servant of Pelor.

This will alter the course of the current quest that the party is on so she might just go away for the time being and in the meantime I could play a temporary character. hmmm...

Karui_Kage
07-25-2007, 10:40 AM
I would take no more than 2 fighter levels. 3 wouldn't really gain you anything, and 4 would prevent you from getting 9th level spells.

If you are heading to 9th, take that first level in Radiant Servant. It's a great prestige, and I'd even recommend taking the full 10 in it, and then the last two with whatever you want.

Inquisitor Tremayne
07-25-2007, 10:49 AM
I would take no more than 2 fighter levels. 3 wouldn't really gain you anything, and 4 would prevent you from getting 9th level spells.

If you are heading to 9th, take that first level in Radiant Servant. It's a great prestige, and I'd even recommend taking the full 10 in it, and then the last two with whatever you want.

Thanks! I think that is the best course also. I am kind feat hungry right now so the 2 levels of fighter will come after the 1st level in the PrC.

Yay for direction!

Karui_Kage
07-25-2007, 11:39 AM
Hooray! :D And yeah, two bonus feats should help to flesh out the battle side of your cleric, while still keeping you in full spellcasting with the Radiant Servant.

Argent
07-26-2007, 08:27 AM
Since we are talking about character building here, I had a question. Does anyone else sit down and map their character's progression out 1st through 20th level, including feats and PrC? Or do you just wing it?

I will admit to doing a bit of both, depending on the character and how long I'll be playing in a particular game.

Ed Zachary
07-26-2007, 10:05 AM
I have an 8th level Cleric of Pelor who just leveled to 9th. I've always played her as a warrior of her faith first, healer second, and spellcaster third. Mostly because the group needed a fighter AND a healer when I joined a couple of years ago.

Just curious... if your party needed a fighter and you agreed to run a combat oriented character, why not play a paladin, or a fighter with a bunch of healing potions?

This isn't a criticism, I'm curious about your thought process.

And if you wanted to play a cleric, why not play it with a divine spellcaster focus who can use summoning spells to aid in combat?

Ed Zachary
07-26-2007, 10:09 AM
Since we are talking about character building here, I had a question. Does anyone else sit down and map their character's progression out 1st through 20th level, including feats and PrC? Or do you just wing it?

I usually look three levels into the future regarding spells, feats and skills. Perhaps a bit more with PrC as you will need to meet some prerequisites.

Inquisitor Tremayne
07-26-2007, 10:17 AM
When I joined the group it was clear that they needed a healer, So Cleric I chose.

As the game progressed (gaining players loosing players) we realized we needed a fighter type.

Now, we still need a fighter type, we have a paladin, so my cleric can fill both rolls, support AND combat.

I'm considering getting Skill Focus (concentration). I keep having to heal the Paladin who has managed to drop below 0 hp in EVERY combat since he has joined the game. Including the inspire greatness the bard casts on him!

Inquisitor Tremayne
07-26-2007, 10:19 AM
Oh, I usually plot out my characters all the way to 20th level.

But am willing to change as things progress in the game.

That and I have always joined existing campaigns that were at least starting at level 7 on up.

Farcaster
07-26-2007, 12:42 PM
Does anyone else sit down and map their character's progression out 1st through 20th level, including feats and PrC?

My players have this habit of mapping their character's out using Excel and figuring out exactly where they are going to put their points, what feats they are going to get when, and what order they are going to raise their ability scores. This drives me INSANE. It wouldn't bother me so much if they didn't then become so rigid and resistant to straying from their path. My feeling is that skills should represent what your character is actually learning. For example, one of the characters in my game did a ton of research about the Underdark in preparation for some exploration the group wanted to do. But, even after this and after the party had spent months in the Underdark, the player was still resistant to putting points in any Knowledge (Underdark) skill. Why? Because it would upset the carefully crafted progression tree the player had already built. Hogwash!

For my characters, I believe that their skill progression should be fluid. Although I do have a general plan of how I am going to qualify for a PrC or feat at a certain level, I am completely open to changing those plans if it is appropriate.


Just curious... if your party needed a fighter and you agreed to run a combat oriented character, why not play a paladin, or a fighter with a bunch of healing potions?
Paladin's only real healing is in their one shot LoH and potions get expensive and are only effective to a certain level inside of combat. I love playing clerics myself. They have decent combat abilities and at the same time have an expansive array of spell options at their disposal. And, and has been mentioned, with the right combination of spells, they become deadly melee combatants. In the aggregate, they are not as effective filling the role of the primary warrior, but they are more effective fill that role than a primary warrior (paladin or ranger) would be at filling the role of healer. So, they are an excellent choice if you need both.


I'm considering getting Skill Focus (concentration).

Do you already have the Combat Casting feat? That adds +4 instead of +3 to your concentration check. But, yeah, this is an absolute must of a battle cleric.

Karui_Kage
07-26-2007, 12:49 PM
Combat Casting isn't too great a feat, in my opinion. +4 to a skill for a one-instance use (only when casting on the defensive), as opposed to Skill Focus (Concentration), which would apply to everything.

Other than that, I agree with you on the planning thing, Farcaster. I don't mind them planning a few levels in advance, or working towards a certain prestige, but when they plan out *everything* for 20 levels, including skills, feats, etc., it drives me bonkers. If they can be fluid with that, fine, but if not, then problems seem to happen. I had a player who spent 20 hours (he said) at least making his progression for a 1st level character. He was using this excuse to tell me why I should find a way for him to come back when his character got killed at 3rd. -.-

Inquisitor Tremayne
07-26-2007, 01:17 PM
I do have combat casting and it has saved my neck on many, recent, occasions.

Does it not stack with Skill Focus?

Right now she is a warrior first and foremost and a servant of Pelor second. For 9th level I want her to take Radiant Servant and become a sort of warrior of Pelor or "Pelor's Fist" if you will. She will go through a change that makes her become more devout and realize that her warrior spirit is due in large part to serving Pelor. This should rationalize taking a level in RSoP. She is very much against healing during combat but is unable to let her companions die and she is not zealous in her faith. I want to change that. I want her to become a super caring, nurturing person which also rationalizes the PrC.

So 9th level RSoP
10th and 11th level Fighter
12th level on up RSoP.

Karui_Kage
07-26-2007, 01:33 PM
It does stack, as they are both unnamed bonuses. I was saying in terms of taking one over the other, I recommend Skill Focus (Concentration). +3 to all uses of Concentration is better than +4 to a single use of Concentration.

Best of luck with the RSoP. You shouldn't be disappointed. :)

Inquisitor Tremayne
07-26-2007, 01:50 PM
Yeah, its okay overall. I'll have to spend my bonus domain on the Healing domain so I can really take advantage of those class features.

But I think it will be fun.

The rest of the party is in for a surprise from a new and improved teammate!

starfalconkd
07-27-2007, 08:11 AM
Since we are talking about character building here, I had a question. Does anyone else sit down and map their character's progression out 1st through 20th level, including feats and PrC? Or do you just wing it?

I do as does my one player. However there is always room for change. Generally, I only pick my 20th level goal. I advance the character however I feel like advancing him during play and as seems appropriate. I do the same thing with feats, pick the ones I want and take them as I am able and as I need them. I don't plot out skill points at all. My friend, on the other hand, has most of his feats and which level he will advance all picked out beforehand. He's more relaxed with skill points.
Honestly I'd love to play a game where you could just wing it. It's usually not an option however unless you want to fall behind the other PCs in power level.

Moritz
07-28-2007, 01:54 PM
I've got a few friends that draw up spreadsheets for character progression. They have way too much time.

Argent
07-29-2007, 10:21 AM
I've got a few friends that draw up spreadsheets for character progression. They have way too much time.

See, a spreadsheet would speed the process up, so I kind of like that. Maybe I'll have to give that a try...

As I said, I do both, depending. Right now, for the Shackled City Campaign I'm in, I plotted out what I want to do with my Monk right through to 20th level. I have some very firm ideas of what kind of Monk I want him to be, so I have planned ahead.

Actually, my monk ties into another thread about generating character stats. Our DM allowed us a choice, point buy or rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest. I chose the latter, and first time out rolled stats that were below par (total bonuses were +2 if I recall). So he said to roll again, and I proceeded to roll 16, 16, 16, 15, 14, 13. And my monk was born...

Inquisitor Tremayne
07-29-2007, 10:29 AM
For roleplaying reasons and the fact that we are in the middle of a dungeon right now I have changed how I am going to level her.

9th Fighter, bonus feats: Weapon Focus and Power Attack
10th Fighter, bonus feat: Improved Critical
11th - 20th Radiant Servant of Pelor

TheYeti1775
08-06-2007, 10:12 AM
I've got a few friends that draw up spreadsheets for character progression. They have way too much time.
Only time I've done that was when I was testing a few thoeries out with the DM. I have a lot of free time at work between projects. We were working out some progressions with the Ultimate Magus when the Complete Mage first came out.


My players have this habit of mapping their character's out using Excel and figuring out exactly where they are going to put their points, what feats they are going to get when, and what order they are going to raise their ability scores. This drives me INSANE. It wouldn't bother me so much if they didn't then become so rigid and resistant to straying from their path. My feeling is that skills should represent what your character is actually learning. For example, one of the characters in my game did a ton of research about the Underdark in preparation for some exploration the group wanted to do. But, even after this and after the party had spent months in the Underdark, the player was still resistant to putting points in any Knowledge (Underdark) skill. Why? Because it would upset the carefully crafted progression tree the player had already built. Hogwash!

I would have spent points on it personally. I blew a feat on something I will probably never use again for a 15th level Character feat as it fit the character and what they had just went through. Fought and liberated an underground/underwater city that was undead and demon infested. Took the feat that allows you to turn half your spell damage to postive energy. My luck, I won't ever face Undead or Demons again with him. :rolleyes:


Since we are talking about character building here, I had a question. Does anyone else sit down and map their character's progression out 1st through 20th level, including feats and PrC? Or do you just wing it?
I have done it before, but generally by 2 levels later I alter it. Mainly I use a concept as the template and build from there letting the course of events dictate what they do.


What to do with a Cleric. ....... Thanks
Main question is what books are available. Complete Champion is totally geared to the 'Holy Warrior' side of things.