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Soft Serve
05-13-2014, 12:49 PM
I've been writing my own homebrew game and campaigns and I really want to use these three things but I don't want my potions and oils to just be "Spells in a bottle."

I want them to each have their own distinct type of uses. Potions would be for quick fix sort of situations. A sudden boost of strength or health or speed. Oils apply to weapons and armor, kind of classic. Some flame effects, some invisibility effects.

Troches I think are really neat. I first saw them used in a Fantasy Game playing Dark Souls II and looked up what they are. "A small tablet or lozenge made of a medicinal substance and worked into a paste with sugar." Seems REALLY fitting for Alchemists in a fantasy game, so I'm thinking of giving them some long-term internal effects. Like lasting you for an encounter or lasting you for a day and providing increased total health, or an immunity to poison or disease. Or maybe even switching the roles of Troches and Potions to make Troches kind of common, easy to transport healing items and potions these really special and valuable flasks.

Anyway what do you guys think of it? Any unique or interesting Potions or Oil effects?

jpatterson
05-13-2014, 11:03 PM
Hi there. I think it depends on what approach you're taking to these types of items. Basically, there is either the established, traditional RPG/D&D way of "there are things called potions that work like x", or the "based on a true item" approach, using the actual historical base for such things, and modifying them into the more familiar fantasy game elements. I'd recommend you look at Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition equipment list and specifically its separate book, The Olde World Armoury. It has all kinds of things like a stone you put in a glass of wine that will change color if the wine is poisoned, to powdered Warpstone that people use as a hallucinogen but can cause insanity and physical mutation. I did my own research (and recommend it to you too if this interests you) into herbalism and the real history and definition of words like "elixir", "poultice" and such, and came up with a great number of options for things, such as its taste, delivery method (paste, packed powder/lozenge, drinkable, topical application, vapor, etc), color, how long it stays good, etc.

I've never seen the word troch, I thought you were misspelling torch, of course. I can't find much on the word, other than being the outside point of the hip (and a medical term for a type of hip bursitis) or a form of the word "trough", so I'm curious what, if any, historical precedent for this word used in this way is.

You say you are not wanting to do the spell-in-a-bottle thing (though to some extent that is unavoidable even with real-world potions), so I'll assume you have plenty of choices for actual spells or effects (healing, wood varnish/sealing, universal lubricant etc) and show you a screenshot of my potion tables that might help inspire you.

http://mojoimage.com/free-image-hosting-12/8391ss-potions.png

Soft Serve
05-14-2014, 05:05 AM
(snip for length)

The "Spell in a bottle" effect I was talking about was more like how Dungeons and Dragons handles their potions, which are literally the same as having a caster cast the spell on you or your weapon. Something that makes them stand out on their own value rather than an alternative to a caster. That everyone from fighters or mages would want to use them. Your list is really well put together though, and on another forum people suggested I give potions a really in depth reaction list. Like base potions that are changed under certain circumstances like being refrigerated or set in the sunlight, or diluted, carbonated, blended, etc. So the ingredients matter only so little as the way you prepare it makes it come to effect. Which sounds pretty cool. Worth mulling over.

Troche (tro-key) are basically defined by what I posted above according to Dictionary.com. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/troches) And on Meriam-Webster it says the word is derived of greek origin (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/troche) so it maybe came from them. No idea, I haven't looked much into them. In essence, they're like cough drops I guess. I first saw them when Dark Souls 2 released and had the following item type. Dark Troches (http://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Dark+Troches) and Triclops Snake Troches (http://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Triclops+Snake+Troches). Not knowing how to pronounce the word when I'd tell my friends I had found them, I looked it up, got the definition, inspired the idea to add a third element to basic alchemy. (Potions, Oils, and Troches.)

jpatterson
05-14-2014, 05:39 AM
Very cool. Well, here is a second table that is mostly based on the Warhammer stuff, that I compiled by going over the WFRP2 Grimoire and personally determining what many potions equated to, in context of WFRP2 spells, plus I think I just added many of the WFRP2 spells. I would be reposting all the WFRP2 stuff if I tried to explain any of these, so if they're not self-explanatory in the listing, then I'd suggest taking a best guess and using the wording to come up with your own idea of what the effect is or does and that would probably really give you some interesting options!

http://mojoimage.com/free-image-hosting-12/4395ss-potioneffects.png

Malruhn
05-14-2014, 06:54 PM
You could also try to look deeper into the spell. Just HOW does invisibility make the person invisible? The Jack London story, The Shadow and The Flash ( http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/ShaFla.shtml ) is a good way to look at it (short story - don't worry). In a nutshell, two brilliant brothers argue over invis - one thinking that if light just passed THROUGH the item, it would be invis, while the other thought if it ABSORBED all light, it would be invis. The problem in the end, the absorber cast a shadow, while the transparent one flashed as some light was reflected off.

Also, Alchemist Bob uses ogre urine to make his invis potions... and Alchemist Tim uses clover and horseradish - so they all look and taste different.

It might help if you listed some of the effects you were seeking - I'd LOVE to play with this idea for/with you!!

Soft Serve
05-15-2014, 03:31 AM
snipped again

The list is very helpful actually, it does give me some ideas. I think it might be better without the context as well. XD


You could also try to look deeper into the spell. Just HOW does invisibility make the person invisible? The Jack London story, The Shadow and The Flash ( http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/ShaFla.shtml ) is a good way to look at it (short story - don't worry). In a nutshell, two brilliant brothers argue over invis - one thinking that if light just passed THROUGH the item, it would be invis, while the other thought if it ABSORBED all light, it would be invis. The problem in the end, the absorber cast a shadow, while the transparent one flashed as some light was reflected off.

Also, Alchemist Bob uses ogre urine to make his invis potions... and Alchemist Tim uses clover and horseradish - so they all look and taste different.

It might help if you listed some of the effects you were seeking - I'd LOVE to play with this idea for/with you!!

Originally I had a game that was going to be very rules light, very simple kind of watered down. Easy to pick up and play. But I kept adding more and more to it before eventually deciding I had too much and could just throw off the mental restriction I had placed on myself while writing that went something along the lines of "Is this too complex for a game designed to be simple?"

So a lot of the notes and stuff are basic, as are the effects, so when I went through re-writing it all I would try to add something to each section to fill it out a little more. Potions and Oils were one of those things and my adaptation to fill them out was to add Troches but I don't think it will be enough, which is partly why I posted here.

So as it stands there are seven "herbs" which provide the properties required to create potions. I stuck with herbs and seven because I want the players to know what is and is not an item of alchemical importance rather than making Botany checks for every mushroom or root they find. It is left over from the "simple" RPG I was planning, but I still rather like it.

Each herb is a different color and easy to recognize. Argent Herbs are silver, grow where the undead have a heavy presence. Coral Herbs are pink and grow near high concentrations of magic. Lucid Herbs are light blue and kind of an enigma as they grow in icy wastelands where no life of any kind should be found. They're all like this. Supposed to be easy for a GM to populate an area with an herb and easy for players to recognize.

Another leftover effect from the simpler version was that you only needed two of them to brew a potion / oil. The first one didn't matter as it makes a base potion. The second one was considered the "prime" herb and is what gave it effect. This left me with seven potions, oils, and troches when I carried this over. But I don't feel like 21 different effects is enough, especially when Troches and Potions are rather similar. The tables from the PDF are below and the differences are mainly in duration. Troches provide an all day or an encounter long effect while potions are instant.

*Side note for the Restoration Troche, bleeding damage is how a character dies. Similar to D&D 3.5 how a character died at -10 HP a character in this game dies when they reach 10 Bleed Damage which occurs while incapacitated. Unlike D&D it can also occur from various effects like special weapon types or spells. And does not restore with simple healing or healing spells.

419641974198

Also, that story was entertaining. Thank you for sharing.

Sneaksta
05-15-2014, 03:48 AM
I would just go with Harry Dresden's potion making recipes. Seemingly random ingredients,( although each ingredient is somehow relateable to one of the 5 senses towards the desired effect) and also one ingredient for spirit.... ( Love Harry Dresden, LOL)

Soft Serve
05-16-2014, 03:40 PM
I'm not familiar with the Dresden Files, though those potions seem too vague.

Also now considering "splash" potions. Maybe calling them Flasks? Or Impact Vials. Anyway they'd do things like clear the weather in an area, or summon a bolt of lightning next round or something. A small earthquake. Some effects like that. What do you guys think?

Sneaksta
05-17-2014, 02:25 AM
The premise is that magic is more fluid, and actually shaped by the user and his peculiarities . So when one skilled user may make a potion for one thing one way based on his style/experience/abilities, another may use entirely different ingredients as per their abilities/style/etc lol

Soft Serve
05-17-2014, 12:57 PM
The premise is that magic is more fluid, and actually shaped by the user and his peculiarities . So when one skilled user may make a potion for one thing one way based on his style/experience/abilities, another may use entirely different ingredients as per their abilities/style/etc lol

Which is fine for a story, but less so for an RPG.

jpatterson
05-17-2014, 02:15 PM
Well, the main issue I see in your stated goals is you don't want "spell in a bottle" potions, but you also mention possible potions as Earthquake, Weather Control or Lightning - these all, to me, are the very definition of spell-in-a-bottle, so I am having a hard time getting a handle on the direction of your approach that doesn't seem to contradict itself.

Me personally, I tend to favor more subtle items and effects, in general, including spells, but with room for special "high-level" versions, that would be much more rare and hard to get or keep, so most things I'd prefer in a game would be slightly better versions of skills or lesser spells or equivalent abilities that already exist (such as an increased healing potion that mimics a healing ability or gives a bonus to healing rolls), while the more dramatic things like earthquakes and fireballs would be possibly even fables until found, or kept behind lock and key like heavy weapons, used only in time of war, etc. I have a hard time, personally, even in a fantasy game, suspending my disbelief enough to freely accept a potion that can cause an earthquake or control the weather, but I also have rarely played magic users, and like to stick closer to more historical aspects to things when I can (not necessarily 'realistic' but historical), with magic items being much more an extension of form-follows(or informs)-function, so a magic whip or scourge might do extra damage or cause unstoppable bleeding or even be able to be used to create a whirlwind or something, with potions having perhaps magic but understandably-related effects to something you'd drink or put on your skin - these will affect the imbiber, perhaps making him faster or smarter or stay awake longer or improve his perception and *maybe* breathe fire, but I have a hard time with the idea of drinking something to produce true external effects like controlling the weather.

Sneaksta
05-17-2014, 08:32 PM
Which is fine for a story, but less so for an RPG.

It is also fine for an RPG as well. Dresden Files rpg, or any fate system. Just an FYI, lol. Or any GM who doesn't want to drill the mechanics every time. Potions of these type reflect the maker, as the time, and also the actual infusion of the magic is still required. It is just shaped more by ingredients relateable to the actual maker's senses. I like the idea, think it could have many instances available for comedy/ folly / or even still some dangerously acquired items.

A sense of humor, in my opinion, would be greatly applied here as well. :p

Soft Serve
05-18-2014, 09:40 AM
Well, the main issue I see in your stated goals is you don't want "spell in a bottle" potions, but you also mention possible potions as Earthquake, Weather Control or Lightning - these all, to me, are the very definition of spell-in-a-bottle, so I am having a hard time getting a handle on the direction of your approach that doesn't seem to contradict itself.

Me personally, I tend to favor more subtle items and effects, in general, including spells, but with room for special "high-level" versions, that would be much more rare and hard to get or keep, so most things I'd prefer in a game would be slightly better versions of skills or lesser spells or equivalent abilities that already exist (such as an increased healing potion that mimics a healing ability or gives a bonus to healing rolls), while the more dramatic things like earthquakes and fireballs would be possibly even fables until found, or kept behind lock and key like heavy weapons, used only in time of war, etc. I have a hard time, personally, even in a fantasy game, suspending my disbelief enough to freely accept a potion that can cause an earthquake or control the weather, but I also have rarely played magic users, and like to stick closer to more historical aspects to things when I can (not necessarily 'realistic' but historical), with magic items being much more an extension of form-follows(or informs)-function, so a magic whip or scourge might do extra damage or cause unstoppable bleeding or even be able to be used to create a whirlwind or something, with potions having perhaps magic but understandably-related effects to something you'd drink or put on your skin - these will affect the imbiber, perhaps making him faster or smarter or stay awake longer or improve his perception and *maybe* breathe fire, but I have a hard time with the idea of drinking something to produce true external effects like controlling the weather.

I am finding it horribly difficult to make potions relevant in a world where casters exist and can accomplish the same effects. If you have alchemists who can do what a caster can do with a potion, then why do you need the caster? If a fighter can deal excellent damage with a sword AND use a potion to accomplish whatever magical effect they need at the time, then why bother ever having casters?

That's why I don't want them to feel like "Spells in a bottle." They'd have to be special somehow or just not in the game at all, but I know people who specifically want them (and other craftable aspects) so I'm trying to make it work.

Also, I've never really completely immersed myself in a game like this in a way that I'd find something unbelievable and be pulled out of it. It's a story, a very fictitious story, to me so nothing is in the realm of "unbelievable" when I think about it. It never occurred to me that someone else might see things in another way because there are games so over the top and still so much fun. Like Paranoia for example.


It is also fine for an RPG as well. Dresden Files rpg, or any fate system. Just an FYI, lol. Or any GM who doesn't want to drill the mechanics every time. Potions of these type reflect the maker, as the time, and also the actual infusion of the magic is still required. It is just shaped more by ingredients relateable to the actual maker's senses. I like the idea, think it could have many instances available for comedy/ folly / or even still some dangerously acquired items.

A sense of humor, in my opinion, would be greatly applied here as well. :p

It could, you're probably right. Someone could and most likely has made it work in a game before. What I meant earlier was just that I, myself, probably couldn't do it. Due in no small part to having never read the Dresden Files or understanding completely the purpose of the potions and what they do for the characters in that world. And I do again feel like it would work better in a story than an RPG. Not that it wouldn't work, or is impossible, but it's just my opinion of that crafting mechanic.

If I had to do it, I would try to attach it to the five-pronged alignment system I talked about in the chat before. 5 colors, the same as the ones from Magic the Gathering, each following their own philosophy (white is order, red is chaos, black is ambition, etc.) and characters gain points for acting along the motivations of those colors. If I used that and the "potions are reflective of their makers" mechanics, it could be a lot of fun. A character heavily along the path of Red could use the same ingredients as someone along the path of White but end up with a much more destructive potion against the White's healing or restorative one. That's how I would do it if I had to, but it feels like I'm not entirely getting it. The story in short is, when it comes to crafting in RPGs I prefer clearer rules and guidelines and this is too vague for my taste.

Malruhn
05-24-2014, 02:38 AM
I don't wanna be a jerk, but do you enforce encumbrance rules? In the game I'm in right now, I have a Ranger with a 10 STR, and can carry about 30 pounds on my back before I'm encumbered. We have a Rogue that has a 16 - and when he started looking over his stuff when we were in a pinch, he was carrying about 500 pounds of stuff. The DM now enforces the weight rules. This guy had 37 potions. THIRTY SEVEN!! At 16 ounces apiece, that's 37 pounds (yeah, no sh!t, sorry). But added up with everything else, like ELEVEN polearms and crap like that, he was WAY over his limit - and he had been doing acrobatics in combat and all sorts of crap that he wasn't supposed to be able to.

A fighter with a sword and an potion doesn't mean the spellcaster is moot - because potions are almost always personal items (it only affects the drinker). Unless there are lots of potions of dragon's breath, you still need the spellcaster for Fireballs and Lightning Bolts - and Identify - and Sleep... etcetera.

nijineko
05-24-2014, 10:04 AM
ah, good old encumbrance. reminds me of the time that we were trudging along and suddenly realized that my halfling was carrying three 10' poles. after that little thing was fixed, i started using my remaining 10' pole to vault into enemies in an attempt to knock them down. it became quite the source of amusement as every time i tried it, someone managed to kill off my selected target (we declared all actions at the beginning of the round in that group) before my turn in the initiative came up - so i would miss. (the dm wouldn't allow us to change our stated actions either). i think of all the times i tried to vault into someone to knock them prone, i only hit once. every other time, someone either killed them first, or knocked them down first. ^^

oh, and do be a good sport and include potion miscibility tables.

Soft Serve
05-25-2014, 11:49 AM
I don't wanna be a jerk, but do you enforce encumbrance rules? In the game I'm in right now, I have a Ranger with a 10 STR, and can carry about 30 pounds on my back before I'm encumbered. We have a Rogue that has a 16 - and when he started looking over his stuff when we were in a pinch, he was carrying about 500 pounds of stuff. The DM now enforces the weight rules. This guy had 37 potions. THIRTY SEVEN!! At 16 ounces apiece, that's 37 pounds (yeah, no sh!t, sorry). But added up with everything else, like ELEVEN polearms and crap like that, he was WAY over his limit - and he had been doing acrobatics in combat and all sorts of crap that he wasn't supposed to be able to.

A fighter with a sword and an potion doesn't mean the spellcaster is moot - because potions are almost always personal items (it only affects the drinker). Unless there are lots of potions of dragon's breath, you still need the spellcaster for Fireballs and Lightning Bolts - and Identify - and Sleep... etcetera.

I do enforce encumbrance rules though I keep it simple. I'd rather not assign weight to things and make someone add up all the pounds of items they're carrying, rather I'd just take the "video game" approach and tell them they're only allowed to carry a certain amount of items. (10 +/- STR score) Smaller items are allowed to be stacked (like daggers or troches). Keeps it simple, seems fair enough to me, everyone is fairly happy with it and it almost never breaks up the flow of a game.

What you're saying about potions being crafted individually for their specific drinker would work really well to create a dividing line between alchemists and spellcasters. Spells can be flung at anyone, but only one person could take this potion and have any sort of effect. The problem I have with this is things like Healing Potions. If I have a healing potion, and I want to use it on an ally, I can't. It was made for me. Maybe I made it to only work on my allies? But that feels so.. cheap? To the narrative I mean. And if that is the case, if that is how crafting works, then my PCs will NEVER find another potion or oil again that they could use. They'd always be made for their enemies. And after a while that would feel like "Oh everyone in the world except me is capable of drinking this potion."

Another problem I have with it is how would Oils work? It'd be a little bit of a challenge for me to explain why the oil, which is being applied to an armor or a weapon, is exclusive to the person wielding the armor or the weapon. Maybe the oil was dripped over the sword or breastplate in the creation process attuning it to that piece of equipment. But then does that mean anyone wielding the equipment may be the target of the oil? Or somehow does it know when the equipment is being used by someone other than the intended target?

So it is an idea, one I would play with for certain. But I don't feel like it fully defines the line between alchemists and casters. It helps, it would be one of the bullet points I think, but standalone it doesn't fully justify their coexistence.

And for the record, I don't think you're being a jerk. And I don't mean to shoot down all of your ideas or make you feel like you're not helping or contributing at all. Tone is always an issue with text based discussion. To clear the air, I appreciate everything and thank you for the time you're taking to discuss it with me.


ah, good old encumbrance. reminds me of the time that we were trudging along and suddenly realized that my halfling was carrying three 10' poles. after that little thing was fixed, i started using my remaining 10' pole to vault into enemies in an attempt to knock them down. it became quite the source of amusement as every time i tried it, someone managed to kill off my selected target (we declared all actions at the beginning of the round in that group) before my turn in the initiative came up - so i would miss. (the dm wouldn't allow us to change our stated actions either). i think of all the times i tried to vault into someone to knock them prone, i only hit once. every other time, someone either killed them first, or knocked them down first. ^^

oh, and do be a good sport and include potion miscibility tables.

I'll be honest I had to google that word. The definition made me google like three more words... It sounds smart... XD

nijineko
05-25-2014, 04:53 PM
don't feel bad, i learned that word from older editions of d&d when there was such a table. i wouldn't know it if i didn't play d&d, i'm pretty sure. ^^

Malruhn
05-25-2014, 11:40 PM
Potion Miscibility Table (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b)(scroll down to the bottom)

It COULD be that potions/troches/whatevers need some of the person's blood or "essence" to be completed... and that would mean that they only work with someone that has that "essence." It may have partial affect on a kid/spouse/parent/sibling - BUT you are REALLY limiting those items.

You could also dig into religious histories. Norse deities would NEVER resurrect or heal someone - that's how you gain character and HONOR!! Greek would be fickle about healings and rezzes. A pseudo-Judeo/Christian cult would only heal a person if they were devout followers of that faith (or SECT of the faith!!). There are a number of deities in the Pathfinder mythos that I could justify never doing healing or rezzing - and others that would do it if the price was right.

And that potion miscibility table works very well. I always thought of it like cleaning products... Products from Johnson's and Johnson's work well together, but when you also use Proctor and Gamble, things get iffy. Also, chlorine bleach cleaners work well with other chlorine bleach cleaners... but add in an ammonia-based cleaner and you have chloramine vapor, hydrochloric acid vapor, with a potential for hydrazine, which is a VERY effective poisonous gas. The hydrazine may explode, but even if it doesn't, it will certainly make a fine lethal poison!! http://chemistry.about.com/od/toxicchemicals/a/Mixing-Bleach-And-Ammonia.htm

And don't worry about jerkiness - I consider this sitting around the gaming table with copious cups of coffee playing the "Wish" game. ;)

nijineko
05-26-2014, 03:46 PM
minor edit: some sects in the judaeo/christian spectrum would heal almost anyone regardless of faith or following.

Soft Serve
05-28-2014, 02:36 PM
don't feel bad, i learned that word from older editions of d&d when there was such a table. i wouldn't know it if i didn't play d&d, i'm pretty sure. ^^

There's probably a lot of words I wouldn't know if not for D&D.


Potion Miscibility Table (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b)(scroll down to the bottom)

It COULD be that potions/troches/whatevers need some of the person's blood or "essence" to be completed... and that would mean that they only work with someone that has that "essence." It may have partial affect on a kid/spouse/parent/sibling - BUT you are REALLY limiting those items.

You could also dig into religious histories. Norse deities would NEVER resurrect or heal someone - that's how you gain character and HONOR!! Greek would be fickle about healings and rezzes. A pseudo-Judeo/Christian cult would only heal a person if they were devout followers of that faith (or SECT of the faith!!). There are a number of deities in the Pathfinder mythos that I could justify never doing healing or rezzing - and others that would do it if the price was right.

And that potion miscibility table works very well. I always thought of it like cleaning products... Products from Johnson's and Johnson's work well together, but when you also use Proctor and Gamble, things get iffy. Also, chlorine bleach cleaners work well with other chlorine bleach cleaners... but add in an ammonia-based cleaner and you have chloramine vapor, hydrochloric acid vapor, with a potential for hydrazine, which is a VERY effective poisonous gas. The hydrazine may explode, but even if it doesn't, it will certainly make a fine lethal poison!! http://chemistry.about.com/od/toxicchemicals/a/Mixing-Bleach-And-Ammonia.htm

And don't worry about jerkiness - I consider this sitting around the gaming table with copious cups of coffee playing the "Wish" game. ;)

That's actually really interesting, I never thought of that concept. Posting labels on potions like "Don't drink within 1hr of taking a troche" or something along those lines is actually kind of funny to me. To turn Alchemists into modern day Pharmacists. It would make for an interesting joke even if the effect wasn't actually in game anywhere, it's something I would make an NPC say if I wanted the players to get a little chuckle.

As a mechanic / concept it's also pretty intriguing. I would do it if I didn't already feel pressed for time. And it may find it's way in as an update somewhere down the road. Definitely a fun idea at the very least.

Malruhn
06-02-2014, 03:00 PM
It's simple to do. It can also be common LOCAL knowledge to never take drink potions from Alchemist Bob and Alchemist Fred within an hour... or you'll turn purple for two weeks.

Another thing to do - which I stumbled on early on in my D&D career at a time I was very deeply involved with religion. Can you word a Bless spell written by a Cleric of Bob? Wouldn't it be worded, "May you be blessed by the power of Bob!!" or something very similar?

Now imagine the party finds it - and the Cleric of Fred picks up the scroll. How happy is Fred going to be if his cleric blesses someone in the name of Bob instead of him?? Can you imagine the problems if the Cleric tries to read a scroll with True Resurrection that raises the dead for a different deity? Sure, there are some that are pretty easy mixes - but Loki and Thor? Holy carp on a Popsicle stick - that would be bad!!

To carry this on even further, I started to think about magic in the same light. I came up with a metaphysics system where there are three sources of magic - Extra-planar (you summon tiny wormholes from that plane to power your spells), Internal (it's all a force of your personal psyche), and External (like the Force from Star Wars or the Dark Sun campaign world from D&D). Each had benefits and drawbacks, and it made it all more... personal. Unfortunately, it's all in the planning stages after several years of planning. You may have more luck.

Soft Serve
06-02-2014, 05:51 PM
To carry this on even further, I started to think about magic in the same light. I came up with a metaphysics system where there are three sources of magic - Extra-planar (you summon tiny wormholes from that plane to power your spells), Internal (it's all a force of your personal psyche), and External (like the Force from Star Wars or the Dark Sun campaign world from D&D). Each had benefits and drawbacks, and it made it all more... personal. Unfortunately, it's all in the planning stages after several years of planning. You may have more luck.

I actually do something like this as well. I use 9 attributes (Yep. 9. Not a typo)

Among them are Reason, Essence, and Faith.

Reason functioning like Intelligence does in other RPGs governing "skills" in a sense. But also covering Psionics as they come from the mind.

Essence represents internal magic. How much you can create using yourself as the battery to power the spells.

Faith representing the external connection. How well you can manipulate magic from outward connections like a deity or from the earth itself.

But in my case potions shouldn't be connected to Essence or Faith, perhaps only Reason. The knowledge of extracting effects from roots and plants COULD require a part of yourself (essence input) and maybe that could be a part of it (with an ESS score of 15 or higher you can add X effect) or maybe you can add more outside influence (with a FAI score of 15 and higher you may add Y effect) but the base stat would be Reason. Perhaps even Wisdom (which I use to determine how many castings per day, but not much else) as it would balance out the stats a little bit more to give Wisdom something else to govern.

But you're not alone on the Inward / Outward magic front Mal. I'm running with the same general idea I think.