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Dimthar
06-27-2007, 09:56 PM
I was checking out the links given by the 'PnP Bot' on the new White Wolf's release "Monte Cook's World of Darkness" and read some interesting opinions.

Some people were disappointed because it looks it's going to be a "D20 type", World of Darkness, some others argued that D20 Call of Cthulhu is a good product so why not to expect the same for WoD, and of course there are those who think this is a move of White Wolf just to reach a bigger audience.

While reading this comments I ended wondering if the system really carries such a big influence on how the players "Role Play the setting". A friend of mine said "The Media is the Message" and his opinion was that the current "Storytelling" system "resolve" conflicts in the same way either they are Social/Knowledge or Physical, which during character creation and development gives all three areas the same weight.

Is D20 really combat oriented? Does it favors "Hack & Slash"?

I use to play Old WoD Mage, and it was clear to me that you need a really good Game Master and a really Good Plot to get characters from each of the games (Vampire, Werewolf, etc) to interact with each other as a team. I still don't see how Monte Cook is going to accomplish that.

Anyway... find below a link to a friend version of Mexico Old WoD, he currently writes for White Wolf (Exalted). I am Mexican and I love it.

http://www.identicalsoftware.com/rpg/wod/settings/mexico/mtb.html

bigeshu
06-29-2007, 01:19 PM
I'm of the opinion that it's not so much that a system dictates how something is being played, although it does contribute. After all without a system for social rewards/combat no one will bother statting up social skills as it would be handled out of game if at all. Take for example Exalted, which rewards players for coming up with off-the-wall descriptions of actions (Stunting). It's clearly a bribe system for getting the players to think of the game in terms of a movie and what would look cool, but it keeps combat from devolving into "I hit him" being replaced with "We fight atop the wheel as it rolls through the jungle. Occassionally I stumble as I try to reach for the pendant" -Pirates of the Caribbean 2).

On the other hand players have certain tendencies and will follow those regardless of game, which is why even in Spycraft, my characters tend to be two-fisted through the door types. So, I'll vote with the cop-outish "It depends".

On a sidenote, I detest the idea of a Monte Cook WoD, but that's mainly because I fail to see how the themes could be captured in a level based system (Don't we have CoCD20? already), and because some players in my player pool who hated white wolf because "It's too emo" are all of a sudden jazzed about it because "Hey it's D20!" Of course that's a separate issue of one side willing to try the other's favorite game (and enjoying it) but the other not returning the favor so I might be biased.:D

Rain_Spider_08
07-20-2007, 04:46 PM
I use to play Old WoD Mage, and it was clear to me that you need a really good Game Master and a really Good Plot to get characters from each of the games (Vampire, Werewolf, etc) to interact with each other as a team. I still don't see how Monte Cook is going to accomplish that.


I agree, that would be difficult... most WoD fans usually have their "favorite game of all" and the others just aren't for them... That and all of the different games (werewolf, vampire, promethean, changeling, and mage) are predisposed to each other in some form. In WoD Werewolves can't really get along with anybody else (I mean hell they sometimes kill their own mates/spouses in a fit of rage), vampires only put up with the others to fulfill their own agenda, prometheans give off disquiet even to other supernatural beings. And I'm not too knowledgeable about Mage and Changeling to know if they are also predisposed to the others but odds are in some form they are. Being blunt these characters are made to not get along unless they are from the same "game". How a storyteller would pull off making it all work would involve somethings that would have "certain rules are law" people like me screaming "Did you NOT read the books at all?!?"

shilar
07-20-2007, 05:13 PM
How a storyteller would pull of making it all work would involve somethings that would have "certain rules are law" people like me screaming "Did you NOT read the books at all?!?"

For players like you I quote page 195 of third edition Vampire: the Masquerade.


This is the most important rule of all, and the only rule worth following. There are no rules.Werewolves are permitted to hang out with anyone(except vamps low on humanity and some mages). Vamps can find a way to use anyone. Mages are capable of interacting with anyone(a lot of very different character types here). Hunters and most of the flavor books were more or less made to interact with the rest. Only wraiths and changelings had a hard time because they were literally half in their own little world.

Jonas Boggs
08-10-2007, 09:38 PM
I have never played WoD. Not that I don't want to or wouldn't be open to it, I just have never had the opportunity and it's not a genre I am very familiar with. I can RP a dwarf pretty well, a werewolf? not so much.

However, I help out a my friends game store and therefore have access to upcoming material, which is where I learned about this one. Game Trade Magazine recently printed the introduction from the book and I was hooked.

It's funny how different games grab you. I think for me personally it has a lot to do with the initial presentation or introduction to the line. I have not been grabbed by WoD mostly because it does (again, to me) come across as emo or goth or something folks who are heavy into LARPing are into. However, after reading the intro to MCWoD it comes across more as a post apocalyptic survival horror kind of thing. Almost more along the lines of a D20 Modern supplement.

I hope I am not disappointed and who knows, I may just try 'real' WoD soon :)

Ed Zachary
08-10-2007, 10:29 PM
I have not been grabbed by WoD mostly because it does (again, to me) come across as emo or goth or something folks who are heavy into LARPing are into.

Most of us avoid leppers... I mean larpers at all costs.

Come to think of it, the leppers are probably cleaner.

Moritz
08-13-2007, 07:52 AM
Ditto Ed.

Rock, Paper, Scissors blended with Nursery School Play Pretend and really poor hygiene.

I generally avoid Ren Faires for the same reason.

I have a very sensitive nose.

Rain_Spider_08
08-13-2007, 03:52 PM
Rock, Paper, Scissors blended with Nursery School Play Pretend and really poor hygiene.

And the children make better actors in my opinion :p

Moritz
08-13-2007, 05:25 PM
So, I may as well share a LARP experience, since we're on the topic.

Aside from the rock/paper/scissors/nursery school play pretend/poor hygiene one that traumatized me horribly. I used to play AMTGARD. They called it a LARP. But to me, it was just a means to strap on some hockey gear and go beat up out of shape geeks, get out my frustrations of daily life, and plenty of exercise.

I would actually recommend this game to anyone. Mainly because it was great exercise for people who rarely see the light of day or get off the couch. And plus, there were some really nice people out at the park whom I beat up regularly.

-Yes, I'm a total bully. I was that kid on the playground who took your lunch money, gave you swirlees, and made you eat worms. :)

Jonas Boggs
08-17-2007, 04:56 PM
Woohoo!

Went to the shop today to pick up my much delayed Warhammer Fantasy RPG core book and what to my surprise came today but my MCWOD book.

Much joy is being had today!

PhishStyx
08-17-2007, 05:13 PM
Woohoo!
but my MCWOD book.

Much joy is being had today!

Insert McDonalds joke here.






Sorry, that's all I can think when I see that acronym. :)

Jonas Boggs
08-17-2007, 08:29 PM
Haha, I actually thought the same thing, but in an effort to hide it a bit I refrained from making the 'c' lower case =)

Dimthar
11-09-2007, 03:19 PM
Sooo ... Does anyone have played Monte Cook's WoD yet?

Any comments?

PhishStyx
11-09-2007, 04:52 PM
In fact, I haven't even seen a copy. I don't get to visit game stores all that often.

Moritz
11-09-2007, 06:44 PM
Woohoo!

Went to the shop today to pick up my much delayed Warhammer Fantasy RPG core book and what to my surprise came today but my MCWOD book.

Much joy is being had today!

MCWOD ? Is that when Ronald gets excited?

Or is that the new rapper in the McDonald's fun bunch? MC WOD in tha hizouse

Digital Arcanist
11-12-2007, 08:44 PM
I think technically that would be a new McRapper.....

MortonStromgal
01-17-2008, 01:07 AM
Its a very different game than White Wolfs. I think Kurt can explain it better than I can http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQvSpwHHyc&feature=related

Lexdragon
01-31-2008, 11:50 PM
-Yes, I'm a total bully. I was that kid on the playground who took your lunch money, gave you swirlees, and made you eat worms. :)

Wow! When i finally worked up the courage and pushed you off that huge snow hill when you weren't looking i had know idea that you would end up as a fellow gamer, or fantasy moderator for that matter.:D

Lexdragon
01-31-2008, 11:54 PM
I use to play Old WoD Mage, and it was clear to me that you need a really good Game Master and a really Good Plot to get characters from each of the games (Vampire, Werewolf, etc) to interact with each other as a team. I still don't see how Monte Cook is going to accomplish that.



I like the atmosphere of the old Wod stuff so much its hard to think of switching up to the new much less switching over to a different system. I really liked what Monte cook did with the Arcana unearthed stuff though so i might give it a look.

Mulsiphix
02-01-2008, 01:17 AM
Many thanks for the link MortonStromgal :D

rabkala
02-02-2008, 01:32 AM
Yes, very informative link. :)

I think it could be just what the doctor ordered. I know many D20 players who don't want to even try other systems because they are too comfortable where they are. If you can get them up and walking, each step gets progressively easier. Once you show somebody that the setting is cool and everybody that plays it isn't a whacked out socially inept larp fiend, then maybe the system can be changed without as much fuss. While in my experience most gamers are rather high functioning and open minded, there are still many misconceptions and biases due to ignorance of 'other' games

nijineko
02-03-2008, 12:32 AM
i was 'raised' in gaming with the experience of jumping from system to system. so i'm very comfortable trying other systems, or at least studying them to see if i want to play them.

Mulsiphix
02-03-2008, 01:25 AM
I really like the direction Monte took with this product. Obviously White Wolf wouldn't let him rip the system off perfectly but with what he was given, however much slack that was, I think he did quite well. It sounds awesome and it got rave reviews over at RPG.net.

rabkala
02-03-2008, 01:33 AM
Yes, I do like the direction. Different to an extent, but not bad. As I said, 95% of players I know are entrenched D20 players who wouldn't consider switching. My last modern/future campaign, I tricked the players into it by telling them that it was a D&D game at the onset. (3 out of 5 loved it, the other two did whine a little) I have frequently thought other games and systems could be quite good, if only any players would give it a chance.

nijineko
02-03-2008, 04:09 AM
interesting. i wonder if it'll turn out anything like ravenloft. i don't know if i'll go for it in any case, it's the theology and cosmology more than mechanics that turn me off of that setting anyhow. doesn't seem to likely to change regardless of which systems the concept uses.

the one time i made a character for a world of darkness setting, i was so bugged, that i named the character "Yamini Hikari"; loosely translated that means "a light in the darkness", which reflects something of my attitude towards the whole setting.



(surprised that i made a character? don't be, seeing how the character generation system works is part of testing a game for playability. ^^)

Mulsiphix
02-03-2008, 10:43 PM
that i named the character "Yamini Hikari"; loosely translated that means "a light in the darkness"My sons name translated similarly to that :D

rabkala
02-03-2008, 11:02 PM
My gods, why hast thou forsaken me! Is there not enough darkness and evil in this world... The horror of Mulsiphix 2: electric bugaloo is more than I can bear.

Mulsiphix
02-03-2008, 11:06 PM
My gods, why hast thou forsaken me! Is there not enough darkness and evil in this world... The horror of Mulsiphix 2: electric bugaloo is more than I can bear.I shall cast fear into the farthest reaches and depths of your soul rabkala. The son I speak of is my.... SECOND SON!!! THERE IS A FIRST!!! His name is Amon. In Egyptian times there were many gods. These many gods all had to answer to the eight primordial gods. The eight primordial gods had to answer to the creator of the primordial gods, the GOD of Gods of gods, AMON!!!

nijineko
02-04-2008, 09:19 AM
interesting that that resembles one of the original judaeo-christian names for god dating from about 5000-6000 years ago.

Citadel
02-04-2008, 02:13 PM
Never played any WW but do like the setting for MCWOD, and yes I'm more of a d 20 player myself. Personally I think it rates as one of Monte Cook's best. As for play testing it I can't say that I have. Most of my group is still stuck in fantasy land. Plus it's a little hard to find another group usually a conflict of work and hours.

Citadel
02-21-2008, 10:08 AM
I was just wondering if anyone has given MCWOD game a try? I find the Magic Mechanics to be very good. Probly the best I have seen for a D20 gave. On a personal note I never did care how Wizards has always done there's.

rabkala
02-24-2008, 08:48 PM
I still haven't bought it. I looked at the local game shop, but hate to pay full price. I think I'll have to look for used on ebay or amazon. I definitely look forward to getting it.

Jonathan Kwiat
02-24-2008, 10:58 PM
I agree, that would be difficult... most WoD fans usually have their "favorite game of all" and the others just aren't for them... That and all of the different games (werewolf, vampire, promethean, changeling, and mage) are predisposed to each other in some form.


To me Game Mechanics and world of Darkness used to be a contradiction in term. I love reading those books, GURPs version, WhiteWolf Versions, Mage: The Acension but they were often unworkable without people willing to narrate, self-edit their narrations, narrate the storytellers bit, edit the storyteller even though they weren't the story teller and edit each others work.

They were very classy high-concept games that were almost unplayable if you hadn't played role-playing games in our systems with the same people. I'd love to see Monte-Cooks version though.

Drohem
02-25-2008, 11:16 AM
I haven't seen Monte Cook's World of Darkness. However, I recently watched Kurt Wiegel's podcast review of it, and I very intrigued by the setting concept behind it.

I had just assumed it was a straight d20 revision of White Wolf Studio's NWoD game, but it seems that the premise is very different indeed. There is an intrusion spot in North America somewhere, and the U.S. military has the area quarantined off. Vampires and werewolfs are entities from another plane of existance who have inhabited humans.

I guess I am going to have to put this on my list of games to pick up used when I get a chance.

BTW, if you haven't seen the Game Geeks podcast RPG reviews I suggest you check them out. They are cool little shorts where the host Kurt Wiegel discusses various RPGs and supplements. His latest was #48 for Burning Empires.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQvSpwHHyc&feature=related

MortonStromgal
02-25-2008, 11:26 AM
To me Game Mechanics and world of Darkness used to be a contradiction in term. I love reading those books, GURPs version, WhiteWolf Versions, Mage: The Acension but they were often unworkable without people willing to narrate, self-edit their narrations, narrate the storytellers bit, edit the storyteller even though they weren't the story teller and edit each others work.

They were very classy high-concept games that were almost unplayable if you hadn't played role-playing games in our systems with the same people. I'd love to see Monte-Cooks version though.

I think I disagree, but I'm not sure I understand what your saying.

I feel oWOD & nWOD have been some of the simplest and easiest game to teach to non-roleplayers, providing the GM has had some experience in the past with rpgs. I wouldn't recommend for a first time GM.

boulet
02-25-2008, 11:33 AM
In a way calling it "World of Darkness" is almost a fraud. It seems like using the name and fame and derail it for a complete different type of roleplaying. If you're looking for a super hero game with crazy powers I think there's a lot of choice already, isn't there ? I suppose the real justification of this product is to appeal to players that used WoD for power gaming : this way there's no feeling of shame when you talk about your super ninja metuselah garou mummy and her crazy gipsy ghoul in her catwoman suit with other players.

I know, I know there's no wrong way to enjoy RPG, still it sounds like an insult...

rabkala
02-25-2008, 10:36 PM
this way there's no feeling of shame when you talk about your super ninja metuselah garou mummy and her crazy gipsy ghoul in her catwoman suit with other players.

LOL. :D

Citadel
02-26-2008, 06:03 PM
In a way calling it "World of Darkness" is almost a fraud. It seems like using the name and fame and derail it for a complete different type of roleplaying. If you're looking for a super hero game with crazy powers I think there's a lot of choice already, isn't there ? I suppose the real justification of this product is to appeal to players that used WoD for power gaming : this way there's no feeling of shame when you talk about your super ninja metuselah garou mummy and her crazy gipsy ghoul in her catwoman suit with other players.

I know, I know there's no wrong way to enjoy RPG, still it sounds like an insult...

I can't disagree with you. This book is a power gamers wet dream. I mean isn't that what white wolf all about a vampire terrorizing a town, or a pack of werewolves taking territory? These are big, strong and scary monsters to the average Joe. With that said, your trully saying is what wolfs products are toned down abit, and Mote Cooks version is turned up a bit. I thought it was Cooks job for conversion into the D20. I'm not saying D20 perfect or anything. Hey, I play other systems, but I thought he did great job with the conversion. I bet he even knew that it would be a one shot deal so he decided that lets do it my way and change the world abit, by having an intrusion. Yes you don't like it and I do ,but here's what GM's love to do, if you don't like it change what you don't like. I perfer to call them touchups more or less. The only thing I do love the most out of the book is the Magic system. I wish Wizards had the origional thought of creating there magic like MCWOD. Hey it just makes sense

Drohem
02-27-2008, 09:23 AM
Ok, I am interested in hearing why MCWoD is a power gamers wet dream. Could someone please elaborate on this?

How does the power level compare to 3.5 D&D?

Citadel
02-27-2008, 06:12 PM
Well...I think it's overpowered my self, but everyone R.C.C is in a way which balance itself out. I don't have the book infront of me nor have I picked it up in awhile. I do know this if you tried to uses any of the classes/ R.C.C's in any other 3.5 game they would unbalance the game. Due to context the world is in monsters fighting monsters Demons, Werewolves, and vampires and other odd sorts getting into the mix. It's also designed to be player friendly, like you don't have to have to prestige into anything wich I think it's a great idea and all but I do love some prestiges. Skills are more available to charcter to design wich way a peron wants to go. So you can make that super ninja metuselah garou mummy if you wanted to, but I do know this not everyone are what they started out to be in charcter, or out of charcter. So if you like Vamps and Garou's battling it out for superiority with a demon behind the scenes pulling on some strings I think you would like this game, but I wouldn't use it in a 3.5 game personaly, but if I did I would have to tone somethings down.

Drohem
02-27-2008, 08:15 PM
So can you play mortals, or is it only vampires, werewolves, and demons that are player characters?

Citadel
02-28-2008, 10:00 AM
Yes you can there called the awakened and the Mage. The awakened are what there called they have awakened to the fact that the world seems a little off, and soon discover that there campfire stories are becoming true. Then you have the Mages human but more attuned to the supernatural forces some for good and some bad. Then there are the straights as I like to say. The ones who go threw there daily live totally oblivious to all supernatural forces and contribute disappearances and murders to kidnappings and serial killers.

Roman Virtue
03-17-2008, 01:52 AM
Love the magic system!! But comming from games like M&M and Star Wars Saga, it seems long in the tooth with their skills! Does D&D even have "Use Rope" as a skill anymore??

Webhead
03-24-2008, 12:11 AM
Does D&D even have "Use Rope" as a skill anymore??

Last time I checked...yes it does! :D

But anywho, I've been interested in MCWoD since I first heard Kurt Wiegel review it, but it's d20-based so I've been decidedly steering clear of it. That and the fact that most of the game books that Monte Cook publishes tend to be heinously expensive.

My 2 cents...

teckno72
04-19-2008, 09:04 AM
Well, I like the setting, for sure. A city of your choice (if you like) is decimated when otherdimensional entities try to take over completely the World of Darkness reality. Somehow earth is kept from being scrapped altogether by the Awakened (basically mortals who hold reality together subconciously). You can play: vampires, werewolves, mages, demons, or awakened. They were meant to be used by the Iconnu (the dimensional raiders themselves) to destroy the awakened. Some of these supernatural beings managed to keep their sentience, so they do what they want (not what the Iconnu want, necessarily).
I guess the temptation would be for characters to carve up kingdoms of their own far away from the Iconnu breach, which could also be fun (if played out right). :biggrin: