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novaexpress
02-15-2012, 09:03 AM
Hello,

While reading the rulebook, some questions popped up to my mind. I hope you could help me to find an answer. And i'm pretty sure it could help other people asking the same questions about the rules.

1. Does anyone of you have some benchmark as to the resistance of material? If one of my Super wanted to destroy a double-glass window, a wall, a car, or a rock with a fireblast, what would be the resistance of the target?

2. Does anyone of you have some benchmark about armours? What would be a kevlar, a knight plate, a vehicle armor plate?

3. Does any character have 1D in all and any Aptitudes, or only the ones he got at the creation? And if the former, could he have 1D as well in Aircraft for instance, meaning he could do a Straitforward action (for a pilote) like taking off, even if his profession is not pilote?
In summary, if a character can't have 1D in very specialized or complex Aptitudes, does he have nevertherless a chance to succeed. And if yes, how do you handle this if he has no die?

4. Plant powers : it is said that the character can control a number of plants equal to how many dice he has in the power. Does it mean 1 category of plant per 1D in the power? Or really 1 plant per 1D in the power? I suppose it is the first case, because I can't see any character attack with 3 or 4 straws. ;-)

5. Mimic : If a character with Mimic Substance succeeds in mimicing a wall of brick, what would be the number of armor dice offered by the rocky material?

6. Super Strength: one of my players doesn't find it right that a guy with 2D in Fighting makes the same maximum amount of damage than a Super with 2D in Super Strength? What is your opinion or advice?

Thanks you in advance for your replies.
Cheers.

Dragonfly
02-15-2012, 11:22 PM
Howdy novaexpress,

Here are MY answers to your questions:

1) On benchmarks for the resistances of materials. I asked this awhile back, but got no answer, which is fine, as SUPERS! is designed for the GM to make such calls. What I tend to do is not assign Resistances, so much, as Target Numbers that have to be beat with a roll. This is what I've been toying with:

Wood Wall = TN 6
Brick Wall = TN 9
Concrete Wall = TN 12
Reinforced Concrete Wall = 15

2) On Armors - it's not really that type of game. I'd say most ancient and conventional armors would be at 1D (leather/light chain) - 2D (plate/kevlar).

3) All characters have all Aptitudes at 1D. As Narrator, you can decide whether or not you are going to allow a roll at all. It's your call. So, all characters have Medicine at 1D. A Brain Surgery TN, however, is going to be much higher than 1D can make. As Narrator, you might not allow a character with pilot to even attempt to fly an alien fighter, but maybe you'd let him after an alien spent a little while explaining the controls.

4) I interpret the plant control to be 5 plants (not types). So - not five pieces of straw, but certainly 5 trees. Or one wall covered with vines, 3 trees, and a venus flytrap.

5) As for mimic, I assume it's a maximum of however many dice you put in the power. The GM would have to adjudicate the yield of different substances. I'd recommend something in the vicinity of 2D for Wood, 3D for Brick, 4D - 5D for concrete, 6D - 7D for steel, etc.

6) I'm cool with the damage that Super Strength does. It's relatively consistent with other Supers games that I play. A character with a 30 STR in Champions, for example, does 6d6 and can lift a car over his head. A character with a 15 STR in Champions and an offensive strike does 7d6 of damage (but can only lift the equivalent of two men over his head). Some one like Spider-Man would be doing 4D damage from Super Strength. That's already better than someone with Fighting 5D can do, because Aptitude rolls cap at 18, no matter what. Low levels of Super Strength can still be useful (for lifting, or for Attack/Defense, if you've already blown your Fighting for either purpose earlier in the round).

Hope this helps!

Best,

Dragonfly

novaexpress
02-16-2012, 05:38 AM
Hi Dragonfly,

Thank you for your replies. It's helping me a lot. Especially for the benchmarks and the Aptitudes.
And I haven't thought about the fact that Aptitudes are limited to 3D and that you can't use the same way of defending yourself during a fight.

I'm going to run my first scenario maybe next week or the week after. So, I need to be prepared for the several questions that my players won't hesitate to ask (they're kind of nitpickers).

Dragonfly
02-16-2012, 06:52 AM
Hi novaexpress!

I'm glad my comments are helping.

Just to be clear: you CAN attack and defend with Aptitudes. It's just that they are capped at a result of 18 (max).

As for the benchmarks for materials - I came up with those a long time ago, before I was very proficient with the system. Your bringing up the issue made me rethink things. Rather than simply Target Numbers, I think those should probably be Ratings (like what you use for Mooks and Disasters). I'm going to think about the exact values and get back to you.

Best,

Eletarmion

Simon W
02-16-2012, 10:08 AM
I'm going to run my first scenario maybe next week or the week after. So, I need to be prepared for the several questions that my players won't hesitate to ask (they're kind of nitpickers).

SUPERS! is not a great game for nitpickers, because it doesn't cover everything, by default and you'll have to make some rulings up on the spot. You really need to make sure your players are on board for a fast-and-loose game before you start or there is a danger you may lose them straight away. If everyone is on the same page, SUPERS! is one of the best super heroic rpgs around. Well, in my book, anyway.

Dragonfly
02-16-2012, 10:42 PM
Hey folks:

This is me trying to come up with some house rules for breaking things. Tell me what you think:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7207/6889590739_aa2611aa25_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6889590739/)
Breaking Things (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6889590739/) by Eletarmion (http://www.flickr.com/people/45079249@N06/), on Flickr

Dustland
02-18-2012, 06:23 PM
I'll take a stab at #6 also:

This is actually why I like Supers. You have examples in comics and movies all the time of super quick guys battling incredibly strong guys, and the outcome is never easy to guess. When games try to weigh the value of speed/skill/accuracy vs raw power, someone always feels screwed. Supers just says that each style of fighting has its own merrits, and if you have the same level of talent as the other guy, regardless of the power in question, you'll be equally matched.

novaexpress
02-20-2012, 03:58 AM
Hi guys,

Do you use bonus/malus in your Supers games?
I know that the system doesn't use them, but I read that in the Vulnerability disad, the character has 2D less to defend against his vulnerability.
And I wondered if I could use the same way to signify bonus/malus for an action.
Maybe something like Minor Hindrance/Advantage = +/- 1D ; and Major Hindrance/Advantage = +/- 2D.

But I'm not sure wether bonus/malus dice wouldn't make the game to heavy.
Espcecially if one adds the rules for Specialisations for Aptitudes, and Competency dice, and possibly a Wild Die.

Actually, my trouble is that one can simulate the bonus/malus rule when one uses the Difficulty scale (just by chosing the Difficulty) ; but it's not possible in case of opposed rolls.

Dragonfly
02-20-2012, 10:35 AM
Hi novaexpress,

Yes, I was going to say that you can control the difficulty of an action simply by setting the Target Number, but I see your point about opposed, unopposed actions.

I guess you could impose bonuses and penalties to opposed actions, but I probably wouldn't go so far as to subtract dice. I'd probably give a flat modifier. This would keep it in line with the way unopposed actions work. Would you increase the difficulty number of an unopposed action by adding +3 to the Target Number? Then add three to the Resistance roll of an opposed action of equivalent difficulty. I'd rather add a bonus to the Resistance than subtract a penalty from the attack, but it really doesn't make a difference (except, perhaps, psychologically for the players).

Best,

Dragonfly

novaexpress
02-20-2012, 07:44 PM
Thank you for your reply Dragonfly.
I thought about setting flat modifiers. But I reckoned that +3 (or -3 to the active character's roll ) is equivalent in average to add (or remove 1 die).
Actually, the probabilities are rather 3.5, but for simplicity's sake...
That's why I talked about adding or removing 1D.

Dragonfly
02-20-2012, 10:34 PM
Hey folks,

I playtested my breaking things rules, and didn't like 'em. Too easy for Wasp to punch a hole through a brick wall. :-/

I've revised my values. Here they are:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7056/6913918855_47c1b25fe2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6913918855/)
Supers-BreakingThings (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6913918855/) by Eletarmion (http://www.flickr.com/people/45079249@N06/), on Flickr

Simon W
02-21-2012, 02:14 AM
Perhaps thin board/plywood should be 2. With a hefty kick, I think even a normal should be able to break a sheet of ply in one blow. You could then have thick board/medium wood at 3. The rest seem ok.

novaexpress
02-21-2012, 04:19 AM
Great job, Dragonfly!
As soon as I try the ratings in a scenario, I will give you a feedback.

Regarding the bonus/malus, I noticed they already existed in the rules, for the Full Defence and the Full Attack.
Only the malus point isn't mentioned in the rules.
I guess I will use a flat modifier as you suggested. Maybe something from -1 to -6 according to the situation.
And I'm thinking as well about using a Wild Die as in WEG system. So, an open D6, and in case of a result of 1, discard (can I say that for a roll of dice?) the 1 and the best result amongst the other dice. If the character has only one die, it is automatically a wild die, and in case of 1, it is a critical failure and something bad happens.

novaexpress
02-22-2012, 10:27 AM
Hi,

How would you handle falling damage?
Flat damage per meters?
Dice to roll against Fortitude?

Dustland
02-22-2012, 12:36 PM
For falling damage I default to my DnD days, 10'=1D6 (so ~3meters=1D6). Can be resisted with a number of Aptitudes(ex:Athletics), Powers(ex:Webs), or Fortitude, but deals damage directly to Fortitude.

Simon W
02-22-2012, 02:21 PM
For falling damage I default to my DnD days, 10'=1D6 (so ~3meters=1D6). Can be resisted with a number of Aptitudes(ex:Athletics), Powers(ex:Webs), or Fortitude, but deals damage directly to Fortitude.

I'd not make hard and fast rules on this, personally as it depends on the situation (as always). SUPERS! is really about coming up with rulings where the less common situations apply. Thee are lots of reason why falling could be avoided/negated with powers anyway. However, if using the above suggestion, I'd deal damage to either reflex (sprained ankle etc) fortitude or composure (messed up, looking uncool etc).

novaexpress
02-22-2012, 03:34 PM
I Thank both of you for your replies.
It does help a lot.
Cheers.

honestiago
02-22-2012, 10:19 PM
Simon's point about Supers! not being a good game for nitpickers (or rules lawyers) is entirely relevant. If the players need everything codified, this isn't the rules set for you. If they prefer pace, flavor and feel, this is the perfect game for it. My question to them would be if they trust the GM to be fair. If they answer yes, they needn't worry about having to make rules references, since the GM is not there to screw them, but to have fun with them. The fun of the game comes from not the number of dice you have, but how you use them. You take something like Ice Control at 3d. You can use it to ward off a tank with 7d Super Strength by throwing down an ice patch under him. Since that logically goes after the target's Reaction, the behemoth can't bring his strength to bear unless he gets past that ice patch. It's quite creative, actually, and, to me, preferential to being boxed in by a rating or flat rule of some kind.

Going on a tangent here, but Supers! really does get the point of what comic book heroes are all about. It emulates a very wide range of Super types, which makes even running the same campaign different every time, because the extant powers determine how the players approach a problem. I still remember a situation with the group Dustland was in in which the good guys were trying to stop a runaway "ghost train." The train was an archaic steam engine, but uber powerful. The players had randomly dispatched a crew that had no one with any sort of brute force. No problem. Fire Control PC staunched the fire in the engine, while Daredevil-clone used his wire-spinning billy club to weave a cable to slow the thing down. A different set of characters would've handled it differently, since their powers would be different. That's more or less what happens in traditional comics. Heroes get creative, use the environment, etc. (like the time they combined forces to snap an electrical line, then force blast it at an elemental that was immune to their Powers--but NOT to electricity).:-) Then there was the big plant creature they brought down, when Super Speed gal created a vortex to whirl away the plant's "power source," water from the city canal, while her partners took advantage of its vulnerability (well, except for the one who got sucked into the vortex when he failed his leap across the canal).

novaexpress
02-23-2012, 06:56 AM
I see your point, Honestiago.
Actually, my players dont peculiarly like heavy-rules games. They're in the middle. I think they need just a few parameters to understand what is easily possible and what is not.
I know them and if they think that everything is based on GM fiat, they'll start to cut loose.
Especially, because it is the first time that they play superheroes. And just a few of them read comix or have read comix.

So, indeed Supers very light-rules is not the kind of game they're used to play (I've game-mastered Over the Edge for many years, and I've never succeeded to make the game serious, partly because of the game system and partly because of the game's world), but I think that with just a few parameters added, the game system would fit to their (and my) taste.
These parameters are just benchmarks that are lacking in the rules, IMHO. Even simple benchmarks to easily reckon the difficulty and consequences of some actions (like breaking or destroying things, falling, drowning or suffocating, poisoning a target with a lingering effetcts' poison, etc).
I'm maybe wrong and I don't say that Supers rules should have been written this or that way, but I'm just trying to adapt the rules to my group of players.

Dustland
02-23-2012, 01:06 PM
Heya Nova,

You mentioned poisoning rules which is relevant to something I'm working on. There's two ways to handle it that I see:

1) New Power: Continual/Persistant Damage: Cost is 2:1 (so spend 2d and gain 1d Continual Damage). Effect: The first attack with the power is resolved normally. If it succeeds in causing any damage, at the start of the attacker's next round, the power gets a free attack. If it succeeds, the power attacks again the following round, until the target succeeds in resisting the power or he/she dies! In addition, on the target's action, they can act normally or spend the round trying to resist the power. I wouldn't allow stacking continual damages, that's just cruel!

2) Assign the effect a Hazard rating and resolve the attack that way. Of course it becomes an arbitrary score on the GM's part.

honestiago
02-23-2012, 08:21 PM
That's not a bad way to handle poison, but I would make the attack's power 1d less every round, otherwise it sets up a death spiral. I would also suggest that an effect like that may be cosmetic, as well (if we're talking a super power, rather than an attempt to emulate actual poison). The attacker uses some sort of poisoning attack to hit, they just attack with it again next round. Otherwise, it's a "fire and forget" power, which effectively gives the attacker the "Extra Attack" boost for fewer dice. Just to play devil's advocate, you could do something similar this way:

Elemental Control (Poisons) 3d. Boost: Extra Attack 3d; Complication: Attack Only 1d; Limitation: First attack must hit to use second attack [or: Both attacks must be used on same target] [total: 4d].

That's a more verbose way of doing it, but how I'd handle it with the rules. Now, if we're talking plain ol' poison, it would seem to me if you want a more virulent poison, just add more dice to it. Why does it matter how many rounds it takes to down someone?

---------- Post added at 07:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 PM ----------


I see your point, Honestiago.
Actually, my players dont peculiarly like heavy-rules games. They're in the middle. I think they need just a few parameters to understand what is easily possible and what is not. I know them and if they think that everything is based on GM fiat, they'll start to cut loose.
Especially, because it is the first time that they play superheroes. And just a few of them read comix or have read comix.

So, indeed Supers very light-rules is not the kind of game they're used to play (I've game-mastered Over the Edge for many years, and I've never succeeded to make the game serious, partly because of the game system and partly because of the game's world), but I think that with just a few parameters added, the game system would fit to their (and my) taste.
These parameters are just benchmarks that are lacking in the rules, IMHO. Even simple benchmarks to easily reckon the difficulty and consequences of some actions (like breaking or destroying things, falling, drowning or suffocating, poisoning a target with a lingering effetcts' poison, etc).
I'm maybe wrong and I don't say that Supers rules should have been written this or that way, but I'm just trying to adapt the rules to my group of players.

I see. Well, if it's a Supers game, a lot of things are possible. I think the rules do have some benchmarks for Strength, Speed and so on. General difficulty is also charted for task resolution. I think your biggest obstacle is that some of them don't know comics. I had to counsel a pair of teenagers today on supers names in the Silver Age ("No, Malice and Crisis are not good HERO names for the 60s...Neither is Hoss Delgado..."). That said, you might be able to use the old Marvel Universe Role Playing game chart for general benchmarks. Not sure if it is dead on for Supers, but it may be somewhat close: http://www.scribd.com/doc/7334515/MURPG-DR-Chart

Dragonfly
02-23-2012, 08:54 PM
Hey folks!

For what it's worth: here are my own home-grown benchmarks, along with conversion notes that I use for various systems.

BENCHMARKS

RESISTANCES
1d = Typical
2d = Above Average
3d = Exceptional
4d = Peak Human
5d = Superhuman
6d = World Class Superhuman
7d = Legendary Superhuman

APTITUDES
1d = Untrained
2d = Trained
3d = Well-Trained
4d = Best in World
5d = Best in History

Simon liked these well enough to post them over on the BBG website (it's on the "cheat sheet" that's in the free downloads section).

I'll post my conversion values for various systems next.

Best,

Dragonfly

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

Hey folks,

Here are my conversion notes from various systems to SUPERS!. They are not comprehensive, and I am not slavish in my devotion to them. A good conversion more of an art, methinks, but these provide me with some guidelines and help me keep characters "accurate" relative to one another.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7060/6778424760_87530d7a0f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6778424760/)
supers-conversions-01 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6778424760/) by Eletarmion (http://www.flickr.com/people/45079249@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7203/6778424786_2c128a464f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6778424786/)
supers-conversions-02 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6778424786/) by Eletarmion (http://www.flickr.com/people/45079249@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7038/6924541485_931018b6ff_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6924541485/)
supers-conversions-03 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6924541485/) by Eletarmion (http://www.flickr.com/people/45079249@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7189/6778424838_239deb3deb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6778424838/)
supers-conversions-04 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6778424838/) by Eletarmion (http://www.flickr.com/people/45079249@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7209/6778424864_97fe9d86ff_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6778424864/)
supers-conversions-05 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45079249@N06/6778424864/) by Eletarmion (http://www.flickr.com/people/45079249@N06/), on Flickr

novaexpress
02-25-2012, 09:43 AM
Thank you for your suggestions.
I like the idea of a power with a boost "Continual" (cost 1D per 1D in the power, and the same cost for the boost). Just the duration of the poisoning effect should be determined.
As for mundane poison, I guess as well that a rating and a duration are the best way to handle it.

Dustland
02-25-2012, 05:20 PM
Here's the (very rough/unfinished) cover art for a supplement that I started to work on for Supers! called Supers! at War, vol.1. It'll cover the role of Supers during WWI, WWII, and Korean War, have some codified rules for various activities (climbing, swimming, etc), stats for machines of war, and tons of optional stuff. My goal isn't to make Supers! crunchier, I just think it would be handy for a GM to have a quick reference for how to handle crossing a mine field, how to scale a cliff while under fire, how powerful a tank is, etc.

I'll also include a generous helping of plot points and a few pregens to get a campaign rolling!

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee374/Rusintx/SupersatWarCover.png

Dragonfly
02-25-2012, 08:50 PM
Dustland, this is VERY, VERY cool! Can this come out yesterday, please? I'm actually about to run a WWII game for some friends of mine, and this would be VERY useful.

Can't wait to see it published!

Best,

Dragonfly

---------- Post added at 08:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

Oh, and the image kicks butt! LOVE it!

Best,

Dragonfly

urbwar
02-25-2012, 09:04 PM
Dustland, this is VERY, VERY cool! Can this come out yesterday, please? I'm actually about to run a WWII game for some friends of mine, and this would be VERY useful.

Can't wait to see it published!

Best,

Dragonfly

---------- Post added at 08:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

Oh, and the image kicks butt! LOVE it!

Best,

Dragonfly

I'm also working on some WW2 stuff. I've got art for 9 villains from Ade Smith (the artist for the BASH Character Cavalcade), plus some other villains that Dan Houser drew for me. Might have to see about doing something with some of them soon...

Dustland
02-25-2012, 09:44 PM
Sorry for the poor timing Dragonfly :) I'm moving fast but not THAT fast!

honestiago
02-25-2012, 11:58 PM
There's a graphic supers novel called "The Golden Age" that explains why the supers didn't go over and finish the war immediately. Seems a german bad guy named Parsifal had the ability to negate super powers.

A Supers WWII game is probably going to center on the "supers as elite squadron" motif. You have Cap going over there, along with The Invaders (Cap, Bucky, Torch, Toro and the Sub Mariner). Not sure how a WWII campaign would work, unless it's taking out secret super weaponry and so forth. I imagine tanks and planes could be a problem for some Supers (I am wondering if you have to limit the dice count to keep the good guys from plowing through those minefields?).

urbwar
02-26-2012, 07:42 AM
There's a graphic supers novel called "The Golden Age" that explains why the supers didn't go over and finish the war immediately. Seems a german bad guy named Parsifal had the ability to negate super powers.

In the All Star Squadron comic, Hitler had the Spear of Destiny, and if any actual super went into German territory (including occupied countries), they would be turned to his side. So only non-powered heroes could go into Nazi turf and fight. The Japanese had some spell around their territory that did the same thing.



A Supers WWII game is probably going to center on the "supers as elite squadron" motif. You have Cap going over there, along with The Invaders (Cap, Bucky, Torch, Toro and the Sub Mariner). Not sure how a WWII campaign would work, unless it's taking out secret super weaponry and so forth. I imagine tanks and planes could be a problem for some Supers (I am wondering if you have to limit the dice count to keep the good guys from plowing through those minefields?).

That's a very limited premise, imho. There is plenty more to do with a Golden Age campaign, some of which is just like regular supers. Regular criminals and villains are still around to cause problems, time traveling villains abound (one of the coolest bad guys was Per Degaton, a golden age villain who comes from the future), and yes, aliens can show up. And then there are Axis supers to fight. Are they all goosestepping nazis, or are some just German, etc heroes being misled by their governments? What about fifth columnists on the home front?

Even if you don't have some shield around axis turf, not all heroes will go overseas to fight. Those that stay behind will have plenty to keep themselves busy.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm working on some Golden Age stuff. It's not all Nazis. Sure, there are Nazis and weird WW2 super tech, but it's also got regular costumed villains, time traveling bad guys, alien invaders, etc. Just like the comics of the time featured.

---------- Post added at 07:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 AM ----------

oh, and I actually have some concepts for some decent Italian supers. Golden Age of Champions had some before, but I felt they were jokes, and not serious enough.

honestiago
02-26-2012, 11:04 AM
That's a very limited premise, imho. There is plenty more to do with a Golden Age campaign, some of which is just like regular supers. Regular criminals and villains are still around to cause problems, time traveling villains abound (one of the coolest bad guys was Per Degaton, a golden age villain who comes from the future), and yes, aliens can show up. And then there are Axis supers to fight. Are they all goosestepping nazis, or are some just German, etc heroes being misled by their governments? What about fifth columnists on the home front?

That's true. I forgot about that stuff. But I would think some of the thrill of doing a WWII era Supers campaign is kicking Nazi butt. I do like the idea that normals have it easier than their powered brethren. Are you going to include the spear of destiny in the supplement?

Dragonfly
02-26-2012, 11:13 AM
That's true. I forgot about that stuff. But I would think some of the thrill of doing a WWII era Supers campaign is kicking Nazi butt. I do like the idea that normals have it easier than their powered brethren. Are you going to include the spear of destiny in the supplement?

I ran a VERY successful Golden Age campaign that started back in the 1990s and ran for at least a decade. It started in 1938 and ran until December of 1941 - then some key players moved out of town and we stopped running it.

We ran SOME Nazi stuff, as the European war would occasionally spill into the campaign, but much of the campaign involved fighting gangters, martians, mad scientists, and other such Golden Age baddies.

I want my next Golden Age campaign to be what my first was not - a wartime campaign, much like the Captain America, Invaders, or All-Star Squadron stuff. That's why Dustland's supplement sounds oh so perfect!

Anyway, I can't wait to see what all of you turn up. Can't have too much source material, so I look forward to urbwar's material just as much.

Cheers!

Dragonfly

Dustland
02-26-2012, 11:57 AM
Are you going to include the spear of destiny in the supplement?
Possibly. For the sample campaign setting for WWII I was going to focus on the Axis power's hunt for and utilization of mystical forces in their war effort, while the Allies tend to use technology (so you have a magic vs tech theme going). That being the case, the Spear of Destiny would be a useful artifact to include as an example of what the fascists are using/hunting for, but I probably won't go into much detail.

I really intend the book to be a reference tool to help GMs run their games so I don't want to move too far off that idea. A book of Artifacts/Relics could be a fun project for in the future!

urbwar
02-26-2012, 05:12 PM
That's true. I forgot about that stuff. But I would think some of the thrill of doing a WWII era Supers campaign is kicking Nazi butt. I do like the idea that normals have it easier than their powered brethren. Are you going to include the spear of destiny in the supplement?

Kicking Nazi butt gets old real quick if you don't provide other options. Sure, fighting the Axis should be the main focus, but breaking it up is good. Think of it like the X Files tv show. It featured an underlying conspiracy involving aliens. They would do story arcs relating to that, then break away into individual stories involving possible supernatural elements, mutations, or secret experiments by the government (US and foreign). They'd always go back to the main conspiracy though. That's how I see Golden Age campaigns going, because that is how the comics were. They didn't always fight Axis villains. Stopping alien invasions, defeating threats from the future, etc, are just as fun.

One of the first arcs of an old campaign I ran was the heroes taking on a villain from the pulp era who was making one last attempt at conquering the world before the war had escalated (it was 1940, so the war was still in it's early stages). The sense of accomplishment they felt by stopping him was a good prelude to later confrontations with Axis supers they had.

In the stuff I am planning on, the spear of destiny is not in Hitler's hands. Supers can go to Europe, but Germany has more than enough supers to counter the Allied ones, so they kind of cancel each other out. Many German supers don't wear costumes, but are attached to special military units (and thus wear uniforms). My German villains use both science and sorcery, as German was pretty advanced technologically over any of the allied nations. Just researching prototype planes and such led me to almost a dozen cool designs I hope to use down the road.

Of course, I have plenty of regular villains too, such as the Crime Guild, my ode to the Injustice Society of the Golden Age.

Dustland
02-27-2012, 07:36 PM
Finished up a nuke pic for the Hazards of War section because what's a WW2 supplement without a nuke?!? Also I didn't mean to hijack this thread, should I start a new one?

Well anyway, enjoy!
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee374/Rusintx/NukeFinished.png

Simon W
02-28-2012, 02:00 AM
Finished up a nuke pic for the Hazards of War section because what's a WW2 supplement without a nuke?!? Also I didn't mean to hijack this thread, should I start a new one?


I go for "Start a new one"

Dragonfly
02-28-2012, 10:01 PM
Coolness! (In a scary way.) :-)

Best,

Dragonfly

novaexpress
02-29-2012, 04:58 AM
This WWII "sourcebook" seems promising. :-)

---------- Post added at 10:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 AM ----------

Just a quick question:

Finally, I'm hesitating to use a Wild Die the way the D6 System uses it. I find it a little cumbersome, especially with the addition of the competency dice, and the fact as well that everyone has at least 1D in the Aptitudes.
So, I was thinking to use a simple rule : all 1s are botches ; all 6s, you re-roll 1 die, and if it throws a 6 again, you keep rolling as long as you get a 6. But, if your final result is 6 points over the Difficulty, you get some kind of critical success and it's up to the GM to determine the consequences. It means that the more dice you got, the less you botch ; and odds are higher that the character gets a critical success.

However, I'm not sure about the 6 points stuff. I don't know if it's too much or not enough to obtain a critical success.
Any idea?

Dustland
02-29-2012, 06:39 PM
I'm assuming Critical Successes only come into play during non-combat actions? For me, there's already a benefit to rolling high during combat, doing more damage.

For out of combat actions, 6 is a good benchmark for "extra benefits" to kick in.

Ex: WizKid is hacking the police department's files to find the address of a suspected villain. The Gm sets the Difficulty at 9 (hard). WizKid rolls his Tech 3d and gets 17! So not only does he discover his address, he also sees that there's already an ongoing investigation by the FBI.

Is that what you had in mind?

As to including "critical failures on all 1's", you may discourage players from attempting actions that they're not very good at because of the really high chance of epic failure. I could see players scared to roll any action that they have less than 3d in. Not fun for anyone imo.

novaexpress
03-01-2012, 06:28 AM
That's exactly what I had in mind. Nice example.
And indeed, I wanted to apply a critical success/failure only for non-combat situations.

As for the critical failure, it could discourage players from attempting actions where they have only 1D (though my players are rather hotheaded), but it was as well the case with the wild die rule I wanted to borrow from the D6 System. The rule was if the wild die throws a 1, you remove the 1 and the best result of the other dice. If the character had only 1D, he kept the 1 and suffered the consequences of a botch.

The idea is to introduce more uncertainty and more suspense in the actions. Even Superman sometimes fails a yet routine action.

novaexpress
03-05-2012, 10:16 AM
Hi everyone,

How would you handle a character using two weapons (two blades or two handguns)?
Would you create a Ambidextrous advantage allowing a split attack with his Aptitude? Or else?

Dustland
03-05-2012, 12:23 PM
Hey, you're stealing the theme for my next Supers at War post :)

I'm going to introduce an option to allow characters to use Power Boosts with Aptitudes where applicable, therefore your two pistol wielding character could take Split Attack 1d to divide their Shooting 2d into two Shooting 1d attacks (also could be used with Fighting as well).

At first glance it doesn't look like a big benefit but with a little teamwork, you could have the two weapon wielder use up an opponent's defenses while someone else jumps in later in the round with the knockout blow! We did this quite a bit in our Supers game when opponents started getting tougher.

honestiago
03-06-2012, 08:44 AM
It is a good idea. I just thought of a snag tho. How do you work split attack with a 4d aptitude, as aptitudes only take the highest 3 dice? Do you toss out the highest die and go 2d-1d? Or 2d-2d, and on second roll take highest?

novaexpress
03-06-2012, 09:52 AM
Thank you for the reply.
I thought about the same idea. But what's puzzling me is that the player has to pay 1D for a a split attack boost and divides as well his score.
I mean, a character handling two weapons because he's ambidextrous shouldn't be less dextral with these weapons.
I would understand him being less skillful if he wasn't ambidextrous. But, if he is, he should be able to fight properly, and without relying on team support.

It could be another boost. Something like "Weapon technique - Ambidextrous", allowing the character to use two one-handed weapons in the same round without dividing his number of dice. I haven't time right now to give a second thought about this rule. So, maybe it's not good.

Or it could be a specialisation of Fighting/Shooting (Two Weapons Technique). Meaning that the character is not really ambidextrous, but as he has a score of at least 4D+, he's able to use two weapons in the same round with the same score for each attack.

Simon W
03-06-2012, 10:37 AM
I don't think you need an "ambidextrous" aptitude.

The best way to deal with this (as suggested upthread) is to apply the Split Attack boost to an aptitude - calling it "amidextrous, if you wish. As to whether this makes you more-or-less "ambidextrous", I don't think this is an issue and SUPERS! doesn't work like a lot of other rpgs in this respect - being far more abstract. The advantage in SUPERS! is that it allows you to get in a second attack, having possibly used up your opponent's strongest defence.

With regard to going over 3D - Split Attack allows you to split your dice, so if you have 6D in Fighting, you can choose to attack twice at 3D each - or you could attack with the first one at 2D the second one at 4D (but only applying the result of the best 3D).

Dustland
03-06-2012, 12:54 PM
Ditto what Simon said.

This brings up some interesting combat options:
Ex. Goldrush and Welrod get into a fight with one another. Welrod knows Goldrush's Super Speed allows him to dodge just about any single attack Welrod throws at him so he decides to fall back on his boxing days at Oxford (Fighting 4d/Boxing) to find a way to teach the speedster a lesson.

Welrod throws a quick right jab at Goldrush (1d), causing him to overreact to the weak punch (Goldrush dodges with his Superspeed 5d), then swings with his left hook (3d), catching him in the jaw before he can change his momentum!

novaexpress
03-07-2012, 12:27 PM
Thanks.
I hadn't seen the things like this.

honestiago
03-11-2012, 07:30 PM
I don't think you need an "ambidextrous" aptitude.

The best way to deal with this (as suggested upthread) is to apply the Split Attack boost to an aptitude - calling it "amidextrous, if you wish. As to whether this makes you more-or-less "ambidextrous", I don't think this is an issue and SUPERS! doesn't work like a lot of other rpgs in this respect - being far more abstract. The advantage in SUPERS! is that it allows you to get in a second attack, having possibly used up your opponent's strongest defence.

With regard to going over 3D - Split Attack allows you to split your dice, so if you have 6D in Fighting, you can choose to attack twice at 3D each - or you could attack with the first one at 2D the second one at 4D (but only applying the result of the best 3D).

Then I am assuming a character with Shooting 4d (1d split attack) makes a 2d attack, then a 2d second, dropping the lowest die?

Sort of a moot point, I suppose, as taking a split attack in an Aptitude would be a flavor action (an advantage for a normal who's exceptionally good at fighting, shooting, taunting maybe), as mechanically you'd want all your dice to count, so you'd be better off taking a split attack with a power (which is the way the RAW handles it).

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 PM ----------

Speaking of Aptitudes, I had a kid in the RP club draw up a character who had no real attack powers or aptitudes that could be used to attack other than Presence. Am I correct in assuming a Presence attack would always attack Composure? And if so, wouldn't that make something like a Presence (5d Taunt) a pretty nice option, as a lot of Supes are so physically oriented?

Dustland
03-11-2012, 08:32 PM
Nope, Simon's example has splitting 6d into two 3d attacks, keeping all the dice for each attack (since you're not exceeding the 3d cap), or going 2d/4d, but then you only keep 3d with the second attack.

novaexpress
03-12-2012, 06:31 AM
@Honestiago: regarding Presence attacks (like insulting or taunting), indeed, they normally always hit Composure.
And indeed, a character with a Presence 5D is very good in social confrontations. Even if his scores would be capped at 18 since it is an Aptitude.
It could be a good option against most of the Supers who are generally more physically inclined.
On the other side, it could strongly encourage the players not to put all their dice in the physical Resistances at the creation and save a few dice to put in Composure.

But, Presence doesn't kill people. It can just block them or prevent them from doing any worthwhile action.
There was an alternative rule suggested a few months ago on another thread. It consists in using a Competency die to make an active action when the character has 0 or less in a Resistance. So, if the target has its Composure reduced to 0 or lower due to a Presence attack, he/she still can use a Competency die not to stay out of action. It's only 1D, but one never knows, it could help.

Dustland
03-12-2012, 11:40 AM
Speaking of Aptitudes, I had a kid in the RP club draw up a character who had no real attack powers or aptitudes that could be used to attack other than Presence. Am I correct in assuming a Presence attack would always attack Composure? And if so, wouldn't that make something like a Presence (5d Taunt) a pretty nice option, as a lot of Supes are so physically oriented?
Page 51 says Insults and Personal Harm damage Composure so yah, I think that's correct. Now that doesn't mean the victim has to defend with Composure so they have options. If a player or GM is interested in attacking (perceived) weak points like Composure, there's better ways to do it (like Webs or the Vampiric power) but sure, if players and/or the gm routinely ignore Composure, then it becomes a very powerful attack.

IMO, treating Composure as a resistance that you can ignore is simply metagaming lameness. Most heroes and villains are portrayed as confident and not easily rattled so if everyone is ignoring what the ratings mean in order to get extra dice elsewhere, then they deserve being taunted to death :)

Simon W
03-12-2012, 01:44 PM
Page 51 says Insults and Personal Harm damage Composure so yah, I think that's correct. Now that doesn't mean the victim has to defend with Composure so they have options. If a player or GM is interested in attacking (perceived) weak points like Composure, there's better ways to do it (like Webs or the Vampiric power) but sure, if players and/or the gm routinely ignore Composure, then it becomes a very powerful attack.

IMO, treating Composure as a resistance that you can ignore is simply metagaming lameness. Most heroes and villains are portrayed as confident and not easily rattled so if everyone is ignoring what the ratings mean in order to get extra dice elsewhere, then they deserve being taunted to death :)

Word

novaexpress
03-13-2012, 04:05 AM
Good point.

novaexpress
03-28-2012, 08:29 AM
1. Do you use distance in your game? Especially for weapons?
Something like "point blank, close, medium, long, extreme". And if yes, how do you / would you handle this?

2. I know that it doesn't exist in the rules, but do you use multifire for automatic weapons?
And, is there a point to differentiate these weapons?
One of my player didn't agree with the fact that he hadn't any advantage in having a machine-gun compared to a handgun.
So, I was thinking of creating a dice roll bonus of +1 for a 3-round burst and +2 for a multishot.
Any suggestions?

Dragonfly
03-28-2012, 03:39 PM
1. Do you use distance in your game? Especially for weapons?
Something like "point blank, close, medium, long, extreme". And if yes, how do you / would you handle this?

2. I know that it doesn't exist in the rules, but do you use multifire for automatic weapons?
And, is there a point to differentiate these weapons?
One of my player didn't agree with the fact that he hadn't any advantage in having a machine-gun compared to a handgun.
So, I was thinking of creating a dice roll bonus of +1 for a 3-round burst and +2 for a multishot.
Any suggestions?

Great questions, novaexpress! I DON'T use range in my games. I don't want to get so fiddly with it. I might rule that something is OUT of range, but I don't keep track of actual ranges, nor do I provide modifiers for range.

That being said, I think the game can totally include that type of detail at the GMs whim. It would be cool to see what you come up with, if you decide to go that way.

I think your ruling on bursts/multi-shots is fine. Again, I don't (and probably won't) make such distinctions in my games - ESPECIALLY not for mooks and mundanes. If a player character wants a gun attack that can sweep an area, I might recommend that they buy it as Super Weaponry with Boost: Area.

That being said, if your players are asking for such rules, maybe you should provide them. Your solution seems like it will work nicely. At that point, however, I might suggest that you start keeping track of things like ammunition as well.

Best,

Dragonfly

novaexpress
03-29-2012, 12:15 AM
Thank you for your reply.
As for the multifire rule, what happened during the game is that a player picked up a submachinegun on the floor, and wanted to empty the magazine on a target. And he found it stupid that firing a single bullet makes the same amount of damage than shooting several bullets. So, I told him that it was a kind of abstract way of handling damage.
Actually, he wanted to shoot at two different targets with a lot of bullets. And I thought that even if he didn't have "super weaponry, or boost area, or split attack", I couldn't deny that an automatic weapon can fire in a multishot way, and hit several targets in the same round. For mooks and basic henchmen, the rules can handle it, but for tough henchmen or villains, I don't think it did it.

As for distance, the question was brought up during the same situation. The target was quite far from the shooter. And I wanted to introduce a kind of penalty to the shooter's roll because of the distance. And as the bonus/malus rule doesn't really exist in the game (except in Vulnerability, or also Full Attack and Full Defense) and that removing one or more dice from a roll is harsh, I made a quick rule up on the fly which was something like "Point blank: +3 ; In sight: 0 ; Out of sight: -3).
However, it could also be : Point blank: +2 ; Close: +1 ; Medium: 0 ; Long: -1 ; Extreme: -2).

Simon W
03-29-2012, 01:28 AM
I would almost certainly never use range modifiers; SUPERS isn't trying to emulate reality in any way its just trying to give you a good quick game where you don't need to think too much about extra fiddly bits. Does a range modifier really add anything? I don't think so. (But, horses for courses).

On the matter of machine guns and the like, again, I don't think any extra rule is really necessary. Supers! isn't about gear and equipment. It's about the heroes and their powers. If you want a gun that has all those advantages, you build it into your character (weapon: machine gun, split attack, area effect, armour piercing etc). If you're just picking up a gun off the floor, use your shooting for that one situation then throw it away (because it isn't as good as your powers) and get on with the rest of the game. As the ref, if you want to give a bonus die or allow that weapon area effect/split attack, do so but don't sweat over something that won't crop up that often. (Also be wary of making that gun so cool that the players all go and get themselves one).

Again, this is my take. If you want to add rules do so, sparingly (and if you don't stop, you'll end up with a retro clone of Champions!).