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Dragonfly
02-07-2012, 08:16 PM
Hey folks!

I've really taken to Supers!. It took me some time, but I've finally GMed it several times for my longstanding gaming group, and we've had a blast. The simplicity of the system is unbelievable, yet I find that I can do anything with it.

My one frustration is the lack of support and discussion. I've posted here in the past, but it seems like there isn't enough a critical mass to carry on discussions about this overlooked system. Is there anywhere else online where a Supers! party is actually taking place?

Best,

Dragonfly

Simon W
02-08-2012, 01:10 AM
If there is, I'm not aware of it.

Like you, I happen to think SUPERS! is pretty good but hugely overshadowed by the bigger (and often far more complicated) bigger boys. There just aren't enough SUPERS! enthusaiasts out there to generate much discussion about it, I'm afraid.

Dragonfly
02-08-2012, 10:32 AM
If there is, I'm not aware of it.

Like you, I happen to think SUPERS! is pretty good but hugely overshadowed by the bigger (and often far more complicated) bigger boys. There just aren't enough SUPERS! enthusaiasts out there to generate much discussion about it, I'm afraid.

Hi Simon,

I'd like to help change that, if possible. I'm going to work up a bunch of write-ups and try to reignite the very fruitful thread that existed this past summer over at rpg.net.

I'm also hoping that product like the upcoming Bad Sports will generate some enthusiasm.

At some point, maybe this summer, I might try to run an PbP Supers! game. I'm actually already starting one specifically for members of our longstanding gaming group who have moved away from Miami, FL, but I'm hoping to run a game open to the broader public at some point.

Again - I REALLY love this game. It hits a sweet spot for my gaming group. I'm also a huge fan of BASH UE, but I find that Supers! works even better for certain of my players due to its simplicity.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I just wanted to make certain that I wasn't missing an ongoing conversation occuring elsewhere online.

Best,

Dragonfly

cplmac
02-08-2012, 11:26 AM
As a suggestion for a possible way to have a discussion, you folks could always set some day and time to do so in the P&PG Chat. There is the availability to create a separate room for the Supers discussion to be held in. That way you don't have to compete with the various topics being talked about in the General Chatter room.

Dragonfly
02-08-2012, 11:54 AM
Hi cplmac!

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm certainly game for that sort of thing, if there is an interest. What do you say, Supers! fans?

Best,

Dragonfly

urbwar
02-11-2012, 03:32 PM
While I'm a fan of other games, I also would like to see more discussion on Supers! I also think the small amount of releases for it (and most of the ones that have come out are kind of low key in being publicized) has had an effect.

I hope once I get my own publishing efforts going, that Supers! is one of the games I support. We'll see how it goes though

Simon W
02-11-2012, 04:14 PM
While I'm a fan of other games, I also would like to see more discussion on Supers! I also think the small amount of releases for it (and most of the ones that have come out are kind of low key in being publicized) has had an effect.

I hope once I get my own publishing efforts going, that Supers! is one of the games I support. We'll see how it goes though


Cool! More support for SUPERS! would be grand. There are Darrel Miller's (http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=3926) inexpensive pdfs, of course.

urbwar
02-12-2012, 08:55 AM
Cool! More support for SUPERS! would be grand. There are Darrel Miller's (http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=3926) inexpensive pdfs, of course.

Which aren't very publicized. I knew about them because I get updates from Drivethru whenever something new comes out for the superhero genre. Otherwise, I wouldn't even know they existed.

It's too bad Grubman is taking a break from the internet, because he was really talking the game up, and I think when he did, it helped garner interest in the game (since he's well respected on some forums). I really hope when he comes back, he'll be finished with (or close to finished) with his release, as I think it might attract more people to the game

Dustland
02-18-2012, 05:06 PM
I for one love the simplicity of the game. There's another game that I turn to for crunch (if I'm in the mood), but if you just need a simple set of rules that can do just about any genre you want with little fuss, Supers is the way to go.

We ran through a supers campaign using Supers which was a lot of fun. I ran a couple of fantasy games with it; it worked pretty well but I found myself wanting a bit more crunch in the mix (probably a result of two decades of D&D). The cool thing is the rules are uber simple to add to and subtract from.

The one change that we all LOVED was adding in a wild die. If it came up 6, you get to roll another WD. You keep throwing down 6's, you keep rolling!

For higher stats it didn't feel like it made as much of a difference but there were a few times when you were rolling 2d vs 4d (or something along those lines) and the Wild Die saved the day. It's funny thinking back on it, no one ever looked at what another player was rolling until we introduced the WD, then everyone's eyes were on the off-colored die, waiting for a 6 to hit.

Dragonfly
02-19-2012, 09:22 AM
Hey Dustland!

The wild die sounds like loads of fun. I think I'll introduce it into my games. Question: did Aptitudes still cap at a max result of 18 even with the wild die?

Best,

Dragonfly

Dustland
02-19-2012, 03:30 PM
[Ugh board dropped my last post]

We did allow the WD to break the 18 cap for Aptitudes. We also kicked around the idea of dropping the cap all together. I probably will the next time I run a Supers game.

Other house rules:
2) We allowed Dumb luck to be purchased multiple times, mainly because I was playing a Probabilty Manipulator type and it made sense.

3) The Normal Disadvantage seemed to be a huge restriction and didn't reflect comics very well. We tossed around the idea that a Normal could purchase powers but they all had the Device Complication automatically (so no +1 Comp Die for it). What's Batman without his gadgets, right???

4) Agility and Fort for physical damage, Comp and Will for non physical damage only. Allowing Composure to take damage for physical attacks seemed to stretch out combat too long for our taste (with the exception of Web attacks which still damaged Agility and Comp).

There's a couple of powers we found to be over/under powered but that could wait for another thread I suppose.

novaexpress
02-19-2012, 05:22 PM
Thank you for the report.
I remembered having asked on this forum a few months ago if a Normal could buy gadgets or use magical devices though he couldn't buy Powers. But I didn't have any answers at this time. So, your point n3 brings part of a reply.

I thought as well about introducing a WD in the game, because I thought the rules lack of critical successes or failures.
Did you rule the WD as in D6 system? Meaning that if the WD throws a 1, you remove the best score of the other dice and keep the 1 of the WD?

Dustland
02-19-2012, 05:45 PM
No, we didn't "penalize" for throwing a 1 but I think it's perfectly legitimate to do so.

Dragonfly
02-19-2012, 06:17 PM
Hey Dustland!

Question: Did you use Supers straight up to run those Fantasy campaigns? If the answer is "no" - what tweaks did you implement? I'd love to see what guidelines you used for character generation, as well as any stats for Monsters and what not.

At one point, Simon was talking about doing a SciFi version called SPACERS. I wish that had gone to print. Simon, I'd love to hear any thoughts you had on that project as well. What changes would you have made, etc.

Best,

Dragonfly

Dustland
02-19-2012, 06:58 PM
All this Supers talk had me flipping through the book. I've always liked D. Miller's colonial looking super on page 5. Here's my take on him...
3574
Dragonfly there were a number of house rules I implemented, different aptitudes for instance, all powers were handled via the Wizadry power but the character had to learn a school of magic rather than having access to every power in the book (earth, fire, air, water, or mind...which no one chose to use), I had some mish-mash rules for magic equipment, etc.

At one point we changed how combat worked, allowing Resistances to be used to attack, with Aptitudes acting as a "dice modifier" to the roll. I wish the game had gone on a bit longer so we could've ironed out the system, but I was having issues with a sociopath player in the party. If you want to discuss it, I'll set up a new thread.

Sci-Fi and Fantasy versions would be awesome! Even a list of alternate rules or an updated Supers would be great too. If Simon were open to a 3rd party putting something together, I'd be willing to work on it :)

Dragonfly
02-20-2012, 09:51 AM
Cool beans! I like your take on that colonial hero.

Interesting changes that you made to the combat rules. I don't know that I like that for a superhero game, but I can see how it would work for a fantasy game.

Some changes that I was thinking about for fantasy and sci-fi was adding weapon damages. Basically, using your Fighting Aptitude with a small weapon (like a dagger) would provide no damage bonus. However, if you pick up a sword, you might roll your Fighting +1. A great sword? Maybe Fighting +2. I'd do something similar for Shooting.

The weapon values would have to be worked out, of course. You can take these all the way up to the biggest of weapons, and these values could be added to Mooks. For example: A Mook with a sword might have a Rating of 2 (1 for the Mook +1 for the sword). A group of 5 Mooks with swords would have a Rating of 6 (5 for the Mook +1 for the fact that they are all wielding swords).

In addition, I was thinking of implementing the pip rules presented by CG7 over on rpg.net. He recommended having the flexibility of breaking up a die into 3 pips (like WEG) and using those pips to give smaller bonuses to Resistances, Aptitudes, Powers - whatever. So a character with Composure 2d+2, Fortitude 2d+1, Reaction 2d, and Will 2d would have spend their 5d in Resistances (one for each full die added to their 1d base, and one for the three pips spread between Composure and Fortitude).

Again - I wouldn't use these rules for a superhero game. I do, however, think that they might work very nicely with a fantasy, sci-fi, or pulp adventure game.

Does anybody see any drawbacks to this? I'm going to try and work out values for weapons and post them on here.

BTW, I think a supplement for SUPERS! exploring these options would be GREAT, whether it's a third party supplement or something that Simon works out for himself. I don't, however, want to see a second edition SUPERS! that adds all of these options to the core rules. That would mess up it's current simplicity. I think such a book would be best if modeled after the Mastermind's Manual (the 2nd Edition Mutants and Masterminds supplement). In otherwords, a book that explicitly states that every rule in it is optional.

Best,

Dragonfly

Simon W
02-20-2012, 12:47 PM
Sci-Fi and Fantasy versions would be awesome! Even a list of alternate rules or an updated Supers would be great too. If Simon were open to a 3rd party putting something together, I'd be willing to work on it :)

What are you waiting for?

---------- Post added at 12:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 PM ----------




The one change that we all LOVED was adding in a wild die. If it came up 6, you get to roll another WD. You keep throwing down 6's, you keep rolling!

For higher stats it didn't feel like it made as much of a difference but there were a few times when you were rolling 2d vs 4d (or something along those lines) and the Wild Die saved the day. It's funny thinking back on it, no one ever looked at what another player was rolling until we introduced the WD, then everyone's eyes were on the off-colored die, waiting for a 6 to hit.

I like the idea of a Wild Die. Cool.

Dustland
02-20-2012, 04:26 PM
What are you waiting for?

No, you're supposed to say "I've already got that covered, it's coming out next month!" I need to wrap up the Norse Monster folio, then I will definetly be looking into it.

However, if you pick up a sword, you might roll your Fighting +1. A great sword? Maybe Fighting +2
Is that +1 towards the result, or +1D? I'm assuming that's towards the result.

I guess the real question becomes how much weight do you want to place on equipment? I didn't bother with mundane equipment, handled Armor as though it was the power (but the Armor did negatively affect stealth/athletic/acrobatic rolls), and just gave extra dice to apply to fighting for magical weapons (max was 1D and only one weapon had it).

One way to complicate/make more interesting magical weapons, you roll your normal Fighting dice and if you win, you gain an additional die roll (or more) to add to the damage. This would work really well for "special enemy weapons", like a Silvered Sword (+2D damage vs Werewolves). You could even have creatures with special qualities built in (Vampire takes +1D from Blessed weapons, or even Skeleton: -1D from Slashing weapons).

Last, I was working on a game for BASH that allowed characters to purchase "special effects" for attacks that rolled doubles. If you're using the Wild Die option, you could do the same thing. For instance, you could purchase Stunning Blow, so if you hit with a melee attack and roll a 6 on the WD, your opponent takes a minor penalty towards their next action. All sorts of manuevers could be crafted that way, allowing warrior types to do more than roll, do damage, repeat. Knock down, disarm, parry/riposte, etc...

Gah, I really want to put pen to paper on something like this.

honestiago
02-20-2012, 07:19 PM
I should mention here that I was a (non-sociopathic) player in Dust's fantasy campaign. And I gave area affect to my Archer. He was basically Legolas (twiptwiptwip!). Pretty fun character to play, actually.

Anywayz, some observations:

*The idea of rolling additional damage after you hit is not bad. You need your skill to hit, then the weapon adds on. This allows you to keep the core mechanic with a simple tweak. You could also rule that a 6 on the wild dice allows you to simply add in the damage dice. The only thing that worries me about all this that is everyone will want the biggest, baddest weapon. So Mr. Two-hand Sword will always be the biggest hitter. Being the Rogue type, I'd want something to balance that out. Maybe the downside of a two-hander is some sort of "whiff factor?" (a 1 on the WD cancels out another dice, as noted below?). This would make one think twice about using heavy weapons. Of course, the simplest tweak is having classes: only fighters get the heavy weapons. Rogues instead get some base aptitudes or plusses. (I am not in favor of this, but thought I'd mention it).

*Speaking of: as one who believes Mobility should be rewarded, I'd like to see some sort of way to reward light/no armor. I'd like to see +1d to reaction when rolling for INISH, if you're unarmored. Acting first is nice. (side note: in our local C&C campaign I use cards for INISH [phase10 numbered cards with the SKIP cards taken out; if you're unarmored, you get two cards and take the best one; a WILD card allows you to act at any time, with a +2 to everything you do [stolen from Savage Worlds, I admit]).

*Crossbows vs. Bows: I'd balance this out by saying the max bow attack you can do is equal to your Fort, since you can only shoot as "hard" as you can pull. The upside is, you can take area affect or split attack with a bow. A Crossbow, on the other hand, has to be cranked to be reloaded (full round action), BUT, you can use a C-bow that has more strength than you do (example: my Fort 3d character can use a 4d Crossbow [which would have to be a power, I guess], but he'll fire every other round; OR he could fire a 3d bow, have area effect with it--the choice is more targets at less proficiency, or one shot with more damage.

*Wizardry: I think you have to rule that anyone who uses magic simply can't wear passive Armor. They have to cast an Armor spell. Speaking of, how do you rule persistent spells? I cast armor, and it lasts....? (magic....I hate it...). Seems like spell effects would have to be on a ticker--subtract a die each round from the original strength. Which leads me to spells per day, though I think Wizardry simply makes casting harder. Wondering about a Mana pool for dice now (..did I mentioned I hate magic?).

Those are a few thoughts anyway. Speaking of, I wouldn't mind getting on board the fantasy train, if you guys don't mind.

---------- Post added at 07:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------

Just FYI, we have at least four folks here who are committed to Supers! We might want to make a go of a full-on supplement and/or line of stuff. Wonder if we should think about pooling our resources? I can't draw for shee-ite but I can crank out prose pretty quick (editing, however, is less-inspiring and takes forever).:-) We might want to think about putting an add-on out there for the Supers! system, then produce products to support it. It'd be our baby all the way. Supers! is the perfect pick up and play system. That's a feature that needs to be exploited more, particularly among the older gaming audience.

Dragonfly
02-20-2012, 09:32 PM
Hi honestiago,

I'd be excited to work on a supplement / add-on like the one you describe!

Count me in!

Best,

Dragonfly

Simon W
02-21-2012, 01:25 AM
No, you're supposed to say "I've already got that covered, it's coming out next month!"

Unfortunately, I've stopped writing and haven't yet recovered the urge to write any more. So, whilst I'd love to finish Spacers!, BoL supers, and some of the other projects I had lined up they won't be happening in the short term. I've gone back to building my scratch built Wild West town and then I'm supposed to be building a pirate ship. When the writing bug comes back, watch out! But for now, if anyone wants to do more stuff for Supers! that'd be great.

urbwar
02-21-2012, 07:20 AM
Unfortunately, I've stopped writing and haven't yet recovered the urge to write any more. So, whilst I'd love to finish Spacers!, BoL supers, and some of the other projects I had lined up they won't be happening in the short term. I've gone back to building my scratch built Wild West town and then I'm supposed to be building a pirate ship. When the writing bug comes back, watch out! But for now, if anyone wants to do more stuff for Supers! that'd be great.

I know that feeling. After my dad died, my creativity went out the window, and I only just got it back after a little over a year.

Have no fear on people supporting Supers!, cause I'm close to sending you something for approval to follow up Bad Sports. Dragonfly has seen it, and he was very enthusiastic about the material. So hopefully others will to. I really want to see Supers! get more exposure, as I think it can be just as pick up and play as ICONS is.