2x 10th Level Builds, need opinions:

[ShaneC]

12/14: So originally this was going to be for me to get advice on potential builds, but the rate some of us are going through Characters, I figured I could review some builds from a complete newbie perspective and chronicle our adventure without giving away spoilers.

Note: I've only been playing D&D for about 4 months, and only 4E.

12/15 Revision - The Start of Our Journey:

The original party, banded together because of their super awesome names, entered the Campaign looking for treasure and their super secret club house hidden in the Feywild.

Chet Awesome Laser - Monk
Groo Bunnystomper - Warden
Matilda The Angry Carrot - Sorceress Extraordinaire
Big McLargeHuge - Barbarian

Day 1: As we approached a cave, we strolled in, caustiously but casually, hoping THIS could be the place! A club house full of treasure! One horrifying puzzle involving a very angry statue, the party would survive, but Groo was horrifically crippled and left behind. The party decided to press onward without Groo, hoping things would get better.

Continued in Post #10



9/28 - Original Text


Alas, my wonderful Goliath Warden is no longer wonderful (permanently slowed and weakened), so the DM suggested I bring in another character, but it has to be a different class. :rolleyes: Being a complete newb still, I think my replacements look 'ok' but could maybe be better/more sensible.

Death is a very high probability for everyone in the party, so I might as well have fun with it.

I'm not so much concerned about having a fully optimized build, but more just for being 'useful'. To my eyes, that paladin doesn't look very useful. We're all running level 10 to start, can have 1x 9th level, 1x 10th, and 1x 11th level (or lower) item each, plus 4200gp to buy whatever.



Thematically and for playing it, I'm liking the look of the assassin better and I'm leaning in that direction. For party use, a defender would be the way to go, but that paladin just doesn't look or feel right to me at all...there's just not enough oomph to him, nothing drawing me in about his build. I had the same problem trying to build most other defender classes.


Note: I have the Dynamic Garrote & Dagger +3 both listed so the info shows on the power cards, since the Dynamic actually lets me switch between the two as a minor action.


Changeling, Assassin (Executioner):


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Ot To, level 10
Changeling, Assassin (Executioner)
Assassin Guild Technique: Red Scales
Versatile Expertise Option: Versatile Expertise (Blowgun)
Versatile Expertise Option: Versatile Expertise (Light blade)
Becomer Option: Stealth Bonus

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 10, DEX 22, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 18

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 10, DEX 18, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 14


AC: 26 Fort: 18 Ref: 24 Will: 23
HP: 67 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 16

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +17, Intimidate +14, Perception +12, Stealth +18, Thievery +17

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +4, Athletics +5, Bluff +11, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +5, Heal +5, History +4, Insight +7, Nature +7, Religion +4, Streetwise +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Changeling Racial Power: Changeling Disguise
Changeling Racial Power: Changeling Trick
Assassin Attack: Assassin's Strike
Assassin Attack: Garrote Strangle
Assassin Attack: Poisoned Dagger
Assassin Attack: Quick Lunge
Assassin Attack: Hidden Stab
Assassin Utility 2: Distracting Illusion
Assassin Utility 6: Ghost of the Rooftops
Assassin Utility 10: Eyes Unseen

FEATS
Level 1: Shield Proficiency: Light
Level 1: Becomer
Level 2: Venom Hand Master
Level 4: Initiate of Three Masks
Level 6: Wasteland Wanderer
Level 8: Quick Draw
Level 10: Versatile Expertise

ITEMS
Nitharit Poison
Id Moss Powder
Ki Focus x1
Garrote
Light Shield x1
Ungol Dust
Carrion Crawler Brain Juice
Raven Cloak +2 x1
Shadowdance Leather Armor +2 x1
Dynamic Dagger +3
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Burglar's Gloves x1
Acrobat Boots x1
Rebounding Blowgun +1
Dynamic Garrote +3
====== End ======
Deva, Paladin


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Galad, level 10
Deva, Paladin
Build: Protecting Paladin

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 14, DEX 11, INT 8, WIS 19, CHA 20

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 14, DEX 11, INT 8, WIS 15, CHA 16


AC: 20 Fort: 20 Ref: 20 Will: 23
HP: 88 Surges: 15 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +8, Heal +14, Intimidate +15, Religion +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +4, Athletics +1, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +10, Dungeoneering +9, History +6, Insight +9, Nature +9, Perception +9, Stealth +1, Streetwise +10, Thievery +1

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Deva Racial Power: Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes
Paladin Feature: Divine Mettle
Paladin Feature: Divine Strength
Paladin Feature: Divine Challenge
Paladin Feature: Lay on Hands
Feat Utility: Amoth's Grace
Paladin Attack 1: Bolstering Strike
Paladin Attack 1: Enfeebling Strike
Paladin Attack 1: Piercing Smite
Paladin Attack 1: Paladin's Judgment
Paladin Utility 2: Call of Challenge
Paladin Attack 3: Invigorating Smite
Paladin Attack 5: Arc of Vengeance
Paladin Utility 6: Wrath of the Gods
Paladin Attack 7: Astral Thunder
Paladin Attack 9: Radiant Pulse
Paladin Utility 10: Cleansing Spirit

FEATS
Level 1: Amoth's Grace
Level 2: Battle Intuition
Level 4: Lend Health
Level 6: Devoted Paladin
Level 8: Durable
Level 10: Toughness

ITEMS
Longsword of Evil Undone +2 x1
Imposter's Layered Plate Armor +3 x1
Raven Cloak +2 x1
Heavy Shield x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Acrobat Boots x1
====== End ======
Any thoughts, insights, opinions? Help is greatly appreciated.

[wizarddog]

Have you considered a Essential Build. The Caviler builds are bit better at the pally usefulness.

The other option is to go hybrid, so you build something a bit different.

I would agree that I don't like the defenders builds as much but I managed to create a vampire heritage brawler fighter; though I wanted to do more roleplay than combat.

If you choose to not be a defender then you open yourself to a class you like better. It will depend on your playstyle.

[ShaneC]

My understanding of hybrids is that you lose out on the class abilities though...ie. the ability to mark, designate a quarry, curse, etc...otherwise i'd throw one together.

I threw the assassain into the tomb to replace my warden....so far so good, but I haven't had much combat yet.



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[Obah Bason]

Take a look at Battlemind. They are hard to knock down. If survival is the key, they have a ton of surges and HP. I have a Gith Battlemind that has virtually no strengths, but is well rounded against any attack.

[Aramil Swingblade]

I threw the assassain into the tomb to replace my warden....so far so good, but I haven't had much combat yet.

im building an assassin now, trying to figure out how to work it right. any advice? i'm lvl 5 at the moment

[Otakar]

Shane, I like your outlook on the game. It's difficult when players take their characters too seriously. The DM sounds like he's taking a pretty tough spin on his world. It'll keep you on your toes, for sure. I think the assassin is an interesting character. Let us know what you go with.

[ShaneC]

We hit a few snags in scheduling with everyone, so we're about 5 weeks behind where we should be, and we only get about 3hrs per night, one day a week.

Our DM doesn't pull any punches, that's for sure. Since we're playing out of the book he's playing it straight by the book. The ranged characters are doing decent, it's those of us getting in melee range that are having issues. Last we played, my Assassin got surrounded by wraiths (5dmg from each at the start of the turn) and dazed = dead assassin. I was getting some bad rolls in there too. I forget if I went down first or the Shaman. He couldn't get enough heals out.

The assassin was alot of fun to play. What I deem "the best" powers are pretty situational (garrote strangle), and the damage dealing is pretty consistent.

The above paladin build didn't (and won't) get used. It may be an ok build, but I'm feeling no love for the character itself.

Next up? Leaning heavily towards a berserker barbarian, though there's a chance of a hybrid coming in as well. Need to decide soon, game should be on tomorrow night.

[Otakar]

Sounds good. Let us know how it goes.

[ShaneC]

Well, I'm still feeling quite indecisive, but I think I'm leaning towards this fellow.

He has near Paladin level AC, and near Warden level HP, and if I understand the rules correctly, he should be able to pump up his temp HP quite a bit as well. +16 vs AC to hit doesn't sound too shabby either.



====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Lo-Kath WolfWrestler Thuliaga, level 10
Goliath, Warden/Fighter
Hybrid Warden Option: Hybrid Warden Will
Hybrid Talent Option: Fighter Combat Talent
Fighter Combat Talent Option: Battlerager Vigor (Hybrid)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 22, CON 18, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 11, CHA 10

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 8, WIS 11, CHA 10


AC: 27 Fort: 24 Ref: 18 Will: 19
HP: 93 Surges: 13 Surge Value: 23

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +17, Endurance +13, Nature +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +5, Heal +5, History +4, Insight +5, Intimidate +5, Perception +5, Religion +4, Stealth +4, Streetwise +5, Thievery +4

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Goliath Racial Power: Stone's Endurance
Warden Feature: Warden's Fury
Warden Feature: Warden's Grasp
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Fighter Attack 1: Crushing Surge
Warden Attack 1: Weight of Earth
Fighter Attack 1: Hack and Hew
Fighter Attack 1: Knee Breaker
Endurance Utility 2: Inspiring Fortitude
Warden Attack 3: Burst of Earth's Fury
Warden Attack 5: Wellspring Strike
Warden Utility 6: Bear's Endurance
Fighter Attack 7: Bloody the Field
Fighter Attack 9: Pestering Wound
Fighter Utility 10: Iron Defiance

FEATS
Level 1: Polearm Expertise
Level 2: Armor Proficiency: Chainmail
Level 4: Hybrid Talent
Level 6: Hafted Defense
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Polearm)
Level 10: Toughness

ITEMS
Imposter's Braidmail Armor +3 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Frost Fury Halberd +2 x1
Amulet of Life +2 x1
Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier) x1
Belt of Feral Might x1
Sling
Attention-Stealing Bullet +1
Sling Bullet
Throwing hammer
====== End ======



A bit weak in the NADs though.

---------- Post added at 11:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 PM ----------

It may end up being the Barb Berserker too. Might just have to flip a coin to decide when it's time.



====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Borthomar, level 10
Mul, Barbarian (Berserker)
Heartland Option: Temperate Land
Born of Two Races Option: Dwarf

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 20, CON 16, DEX 17, INT 8, WIS 11, CHA 10

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 14, DEX 15, INT 8, WIS 11, CHA 10


AC: 25 Fort: 25 Ref: 21 Will: 17
HP: 90 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +14, Endurance +14, Heal +10, Perception +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +5, History +4, Insight +5, Intimidate +5, Nature +5, Religion +4, Stealth +7, Streetwise +7, Thievery +7

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Mul Racial Power: Incredible Toughness
Multiple Class Utility: Defender Aura
Barbarian Attack: Vengeful Guardian
Barbarian Attack 1: Run Down
Barbarian Attack 1: Stalk and Strike
Barbarian Attack 1: Vault the Fallen
Barbarian Attack 1: Macetail's Rage
Endurance Utility 2: Inspiring Fortitude
Barbarian Attack 3: Blood Strike
Barbarian Attack 5: Frost Wolf Rage
Heal Utility 6: Physician's Care
Barbarian Attack 7: Curtain of Steel
Barbarian Attack 9: Eye of the Maelstrom
Endurance Utility 10: Reactive Surge

FEATS
Level 1: Berserk Vitality
Level 2: Dwarven Weapon Training
Level 4: Toughness
Level 6: Bludgeon Expertise
Level 8: Defender of the Wild
Level 10: Crippling Crush

ITEMS
Hammer of Victory Craghammer +2 x1
Amulet of Life +2 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Light Shield x1
Adventurer's Kit
Sunrod
Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier) x1
Acrobat Boots x1
Throwing hammer
Summoned Tembo Hide Armor +3 x1
====== End ======

[ShaneC]

The party continued onward and found there way to a forest and an abandoned camp site with little to no useful items, nor a club house, nor treasure. They did, however meet up with some very angry animated gear and some other nasties. It was at this point they also met up with a Assassin named Ot To, appearing as a Dwarf. This shadowy figure impressed the party with his spectacular display of acrobatics by leaping off a tower, performing a backflip, and plunging his dagger and rapier deep into a Wisp. When the excitement was over and the animations destroyed, Ot To confessed his true form to be Changling. He just enjoyed having an audience watch a dwarf doing flips and leaping in and out of shadows. Ot To too had heard of the treasures and club house and joined the party hoping to find these wonderful things.

As the party continued on through the forest, Chet AwesomeLaser climbed up a cliff for a better vantage point and kept pace with the party, as they continued along on the lower trails. All seemed to be going well as they stumbled across some abandoned buildings. Chet was the first to enter, and the rest of the party went to meet him. As the party approached Chet, he seemed to blink out of existence. The party approached the location where Chet vanished, and screams were heard, but Chet's body was never found. Still not sure where he went or what happened.

Due to the demise of Chet, the party found it best to find a safe place to setup camp and ponder what to do next.

As the journey continued, far far away from the place of Chet's disappearance, they met a Shaman who offered them healing in exchange for companionship (and treasure, and a place and the club house).

Another building appeared in the distance and the party ventured in. Ot To now taking the lead, sneaking around and trying to survey what lie ahead. Big McLargeHuge was 2nd in line, ready to rain down blows upon whatever they might happen across. Wormie, the Shaman and Matlilda, the Angry Carrot Sorceress Extraordinaire brought up the rear.

Entering the building, there was very little of interest until someone spotted some tunnels. Exploring the tunnels led to some interesting paths and shapes that made everyone's head hurt, but they pressed on into a room filled with Runes and some very unusual architecture. The party spread out across the room to investigate the source of the glow. The runes on the walls interested Matilda so she began some arcane divining to see what she could learn. Her divination was quickly interrupted when clones (probably evil, judging by their goatees) attacked!

Ot To deffinatly held his own, thanks to the Shaman sharing some heals. Matilda mostly was able to stay at range from her clone and blast it. Poor Big, he just couldn't hold out against those barbaric dice. Once Ot To finished off his clone, he was able to sneak up behind evil Matilda with a garrotte and put her down. The party regrouped to finish off the evil barbarian and shaman.

Big was laid to rest in the room of runes, and the party would continue.

[Otakar]

Sounds like a light-hearted meat grinder of a game. Thanks for keeping us in the loop!

[ShaneC]

Big was replaced by Wendy Hotbewbs, a scantly clad rogue. My memory gets a bit fuzzy here, as it was about this time that we ended up on a bit of a hiatus.

I do remember a great game at some gambling tables involving quite a few skill checks and being throughly captivated with the game tables.

Actually, none of the party remembers the details of the games terribly well, but we'd all find it nearly impossible to deny the awesomeness of that room and its many games.

After leaving the casino (for lack of better terms), we found our way into another room filled with runes. Not much time to investigate this one, as we were quickly joined by some very VERY angry wraiths



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[ShaneC]

Sounds like a light-hearted meat grinder of a game. Thanks for keeping us in the loop!

Deffinatly a meat grinder. There's still chunks of the party in Matilda's hair. She's none too happy about that, but she's the only original member left!



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[Otakar]

I like the gameing room idea. Wish you could get your DM to blog that on here. Sounds like a nice diversion from the old 2-encounters-an-hour method.

[ShaneC]

In reality, I think it played out kinda boring...or maybe we just didn't see a way to RP it better. It was neat, at first, but it lasted far too long to be entertaining.

Still to come, Kicking Down Doors!



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