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RealmsDM
04-23-2007, 03:12 PM
In case anyone here has not heard, Dragon & Dungeon magazines will be ending this year in a few issues. WotC plans on selling it as a online .pdf file.
Everyone's thoughts? :confused:

Ed Zachary
04-23-2007, 05:08 PM
PDF sucks, can't cut and paste.

Digital Arcanist
04-23-2007, 09:08 PM
An online journal would be magnificent....if a comfortable portable reader existed.

If a company could come up with a reader the size of a magazine that could be marketed for large-print, magazines, text books, and regular novel size literature they could make a fortune.

As it stands now, reading from a laptop or desktop is not comfortable in my opinion or overly practical.

You can cut and paste .pdf files Ed!! I compose new .pdf files all the time from sections of several .pfd's for school and work. Acrobat reader won't let you because well....it just reads the files. the full version of Acrobat lets you edit, create, and web publish .pdf's!!

Grimwell
04-24-2007, 12:23 AM
Print is dead, this is the future. That said, WoTC has just opened themselves up for Pazio to just do a OGL magazine in print and be fine without the need for WoTC to oversee it all.

Plus, WoTC is going to have to bust hiney to make it worth the money.

gdmcbride
04-24-2007, 01:11 AM
PDF sucks, can't cut and paste.

The Order of the Frog was led by a man of resource and ambition.
High Priest Saint Stephen and his four sainted companions
appeared out of nowhere and took over the order twenty
five years ago. They ruled it with an iron hand.

The above test was cut and pasted from a PDF downloaded off WOTC's website. I only have acrobat reader.

Under the tools menu is the basic sub-menu and, in that, the select tool. You can select text with it and copy that text to window's clipboard.

Gary

gdmcbride
04-24-2007, 01:23 AM
I'll miss them. I'm sad to see Dungeon and Dragon magazine go, in particular Dungeon. I was (am) subscribed to both magazines and am now also a charter subscriber to Pathfinder. I enjoy print magazines and looked forward each month to receiving my magazines and taking a break out of my often very hectic days to read my new acquisition.

I have been a Dragon reader since 1981. I subscribed to the magazine at the age of nine and it was the first magazine I ever regularly read.

Dungeon came later. I subscribed to that magazine with issue number one and have been a fan ever since. My fandom was tested in the mid nineties when the magazine became very shoddy as TSR was entering its death throes, but recently under Paizo's Erik Mona and James Jacobs, the magazine has really turned around and become simply stunning. The Adventure Paths, modules by the industries finest, cutting edge art -- I have no trouble recommending Dungeon in particular the last fifty issues.

I'll look at WOTCs new digital initiative, but I got to say ... I'm doubtful. WOTC's writing standards have been pretty dubious of late and suffice it to say that I am wary that they can equal what has gone before.

But we shall see...

Gary

Farcaster
04-24-2007, 03:49 AM
I liked both the Dragon and Dungeon magazines, but I must admit that I didn't keep an active subscription. I usually ended up picking one up when I saw articles I was interested in at my local bookstore. At the same time, I disliked some of the formulaic Prestige-class articles that Dragon seemed to be come laden with, and I was disappointed when they pulled the short stories section. (Although, in part this is because I had a short story that I really wanted to submit...)

I'm excited about the PDF options and I'm anxious to hear what Wizards has in store. And, to be honest, I'll probably have better luck hanging on to my copies and referencing stuff if it's in electronic format. That and being able to cut and paste sections of it (especially stat blocks) directly into my notes for my games would be very helpful.

Here's to hoping that Wizards does great things with their online publications! :D

PhishStyx
04-25-2007, 03:22 PM
You can cut and paste .pdf files Ed!! I compose new .pdf files all the time from sections of several .pfd's for school and work. Acrobat reader won't let you because well....it just reads the files. the full version of Acrobat lets you edit, create, and web publish .pdf's!!

I "C&P" from Acrobat Reader all the time, except for scanned pdfs, of course, can't C&P or search in them.

Digital Arcanist
04-25-2007, 04:20 PM
You can copy and paste from .pdf's into other programs because that is a windows function. You end up with huge files because the copied sections are turned into pictures you embed in the files.

I compose new .pdf files from existing ones as well as edit existing files which is a function of the full-version of Acrobat. I don't see the point in copying from .pdf's in to Word if all you end up with is a clunky looking file of large proportions.

I'm just glad that WotC isn't creating some proprietary media type. Can you imagine the hoops we would have to jump through if someone like Sony had gotten the rights? I'm interested in what type of DRM we will have to deal with when WotC takes over.

Farcaster
04-25-2007, 04:30 PM
Not to derail the thread too much, but I'm pretty sure you can use the text selection tool in Acrobat reader and copy the text your interested in. That copies as straight formatted text, not an image.

Digital Arcanist
04-25-2007, 04:35 PM
You lose the font and artistic style that way.

I mainly you Acrobat for presentation quality media so those things are important for me.

Anyway, does anyone know what type of download service WotC is setting up for this online magazine?

RealmsDM
04-27-2007, 12:28 AM
Back on topic... now that my initial anger has cooled down... slightly :mad: , I do want to see what WotC has in store for us (and I better not be let down...)
I think Pathfider is a good idea, but $20 an issue? C'mon, that is waaay too much. I'm no cheapskate, but that's no magazine.. it's a RPG accessory disguised as a monthly mag.
At this point all I can do is hope WotC does the right thing, and that Paizo, or someone else continues a PRINTED version of Dragon (albeit with a different name)

gdmcbride
04-27-2007, 01:40 AM
Back on topic... now that my initial anger has cooled down... slightly :mad: , I do want to see what WotC has in store for us (and I better not be let down...)
I think Pathfider is a good idea, but $20 an issue? C'mon, that is waaay too much. I'm no cheapskate, but that's no magazine.. it's a RPG accessory disguised as a monthly mag.
At this point all I can do is hope WotC does the right thing, and that Paizo, or someone else continues a PRINTED version of Dragon (albeit with a different name)

I too remain miffed. I want my goddamn Dungeon! Motherf*ckers. But I am sliding slowly ... painfully ... tortorously into the acceptance phase of my grief.

Pathfinder is not a magazine. It is, to quote the press release "a new monthly 96-page, perfect-bound, OGL-compatible full-color softcover Adventure Path book" and again later "it's a book, not a magazine". You can subscribe to it, it will be released monthly but it will have no ads. Paizo is so very careful in their press release not to use the word magazine I suspect contractual obligation. Perhaps they are forbidden in releasing any sort of magazine for a specific period.

Of course that is pure speculation as all knowledgeable parties are keeping the specifics of the contract close to breast. GAMA Trade Show in Vegas this week would have been a prime time to leak and so far no go ... my network of ninja spies has utterly failed me. Of course if I had actually been able to go, I could have expertly extracted the truth myself using my preferred weapon (single malt scotch), but it was not to be. Oh, the perils of parenthood!

And with a subscription discount and shipping Pathfinder is only $18 per issue. Yay.

But regardless I would be extremely surprised if we see any print edition of Dragon or Dungeon for at least two to three years. It will take a long time even if the digital initiative is a dismal failure for WOTC to untangle their egos from this one and admit defeat.

Gary

ronpyatt
04-27-2007, 08:51 AM
I wonder if someone will offer Mag-On-Demand print copies.

gdmcbride
04-27-2007, 11:49 AM
I wonder if someone will offer Mag-On-Demand print copies.

I've heard of no such scheme. WOTC has promised paper compilations of online content, but those will normal distribution channel releases.

The constant bugbears to such a project are (no surprise) art costs and shipping times. But I do think the industry is ready for a high production gaming magazine to take Dragon and Dungeon's place.

Starting a magazine though is no small task. You need millions to start a magazine that goes the book store, hobby store, three tiered distributor route. So far I have heard of no such capital pile pooling anywhere but of course that doesn't mean its not happening.

Gary

Deathworm22
04-27-2007, 06:28 PM
Anyone here think of ever doing your own online magazine. It could go around small gaming forums like ours. Its probably a stupid idea I know. I take complaints.

Skunkape
04-30-2007, 07:23 AM
My only issue with an online mag is that I can't look at it before I buy it. That's what's kept me buying the two mags over the past few years. I stopped subscribing a while ago as I had been moving around quite a bit. But I would often go into a store and thumb through a copy in the store and if something caught my eye, I'd pick it up.

Can't really do that with an online version.

Farcaster
04-30-2007, 12:10 PM
Well, there are ways that could be addressed, Skunk. They could easily give teasers online that you could preview. Didn't Paizo do something like that as well? For some reason, I seem to remember them having something online you could look at from each issue.

spotlight
04-30-2007, 05:11 PM
I havn't looked at Dragon in many years, since I pretty much quit d&d. It is sad to see such items disappear from the world.:( And a shame. However, I don't see how this online print stuff will actually take hold. For refence porpuses, one does need hard copy.

Skunkape
05-01-2007, 07:11 AM
Yes, Paizo had something online pimping their new mag. I haven't read it yet, but if they manage to make it interesting enough, I'd be inclinded to buy something like that, I'm just not too sure that Wizards will do that for every issue. Paizo might not do it either. I guess we'll have to just wait and see though.

RealmsDM
05-09-2007, 02:39 PM
It's not really a magazine... its a $20 monthly adventure, but their marketing dept. is trying to sell it as a mag.. they think we're stupid.

mindgamez
05-09-2007, 06:49 PM
Only $14 per month if you get a subscription which is what you pay for both now. Oh wait, + Shipping. Though I doubt it will be the same level of content.

Worse though is that WotC has one of the worst sites out there. Hard to navigate and links double back on them selves. There is some cool stuff there but I almost feel I find it by accident.