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novaexpress
06-23-2011, 06:04 AM
When reading the book, I haven't found any mention of bonus/malus, except in the full defence and attack paragraphs.
Does bonus and malus rule apply?
For instance, if X wants to parry a bullet with his magic sword, could I apply a -1D malus to his roll because of the bullet's velocity? Or do I have maybe to increase the opposed Difficulty (meaning in that situation, increase the result of the attack roll) ?

Also, it ain't mentioned as well that you can use an Aptitude as a Defence roll. It is just stated that you can use a Power or a Resistance to defend against an attack (p. 47). But I suppose that you can use an Aptitude as a Defence (if not, what would be the point of "Dodge"?).

BTW, I tried a quick fight with a friend of mine just to test the rules. I played Tombstone, and my friend used Freebooter. I finished him with my Energy blast (up to two attacks per round, at 4D and 3D) in just one round (he had a mediocre roll, and I got an above average one).
My friend thinks that any player will first try to apply the damage to Composure (when it's relevant, of course), and then dispatch any following damage to Reaction and Fortitude.
I know, sounds like Munchkinism because it's playing with the rules, but this a typical curse amongst the players.
And, he thinks as well that there're not enough points in the Resistances (with 20D at the creation), and suggests to let a character die (or be unconscious) at the same score than Fortitude but in negative (i.e. at 2D in Fortitude, you're out of the fight at -2D).
What do you think about that?


PS: sorry for my English, but it's not my primary language.

Simon W
06-23-2011, 09:59 AM
When reading the book, I haven't found any mention of bonus/malus, except in the full defence and attack paragraphs.
Does bonus and malus rule apply?
For instance, if X wants to parry a bullet with his magic sword, could I apply a -1D malus to his roll because of the bullet's velocity? Or do I have maybe to increase the opposed Difficulty (meaning in that situation, increase the result of the attack roll) ?.

I wouldn't. Parrying with your magic sword is a perfectly viable option. Generally, there are no bonuses/penalties in SUPERS! as you might see in other rpgs, except those taken as character options.


. Also, it ain't mentioned as well that you can use an Aptitude as a Defence roll. It is just stated that you can use a Power or a Resistance to defend against an attack (p. 47). But I suppose that you can use an Aptitude as a Defence (if not, what would be the point of "Dodge"?).

Yes, you can.


My friend thinks that any player will first try to apply the damage to Composure (when it's relevant, of course), and then dispatch any following damage to Reaction and Fortitude.

If that's what he wants to do, that's fine. Sometimes, there is no choice, of course. Also, if your party leader/PR guy has his composure reduced to 0, try getting him to talk to the press, when he so flummoxed he can't even remember what day of the week it is.



I know, sounds like Munchkinism because it's playing with the rules, but this a typical curse amongst the players.
And, he thinks as well that there're not enough points in the Resistances (with 20D at the creation), and suggests to let a character die (or be unconscious) at the same score than Fortitude but in negative (i.e. at 2D in Fortitude, you're out of the fight at -2D).
What do you think about that?

If it works for you, then that's great by me. It's a highly "tinkerable" game. It may not suit people who want rules for everything, but its great to just get a character together and play a game. Once you've learned the basics, you rarely need to look at the rule book again.

ReaperWolf
06-23-2011, 11:10 AM
Novaexpress,

Regarding the Resistances and damage.

I'm using the following rule. When reduced to 0 resistance you're considered reeling, either physically or mentally but you're not actually out until you fall below negative Resistance so if you had a Fortitude of 3 you reel at 0 and are out when you're reduced below -3 Fortitude.

novaexpress
06-25-2011, 04:17 AM
Thank you for your advice, ReaperWolf.
I'll surely use this adjustment.
I will just have to pay attention to character with any Fortitude boost power. Just not to unbalance the game.

ReaperWolf
06-25-2011, 10:30 AM
No problem Novaexpress, glad I could help. :)

One thing to remember: if Fortitude is being used as a defense, like any other Resistance, it can only be used once per round to defend and because it's a Resistance and not a Power only 3 dice count. So if you have a character with a Fortitude of 8 rolls to defend against an attack, the character gets 8 dice but only counts 3. Make sense?

Yes, my optional rule makes characters live longer but SUPERS! is vague on death when a Resistance drops below 0 and I'm sure that's intentional on Simon's part. In superhero games, death isn't permanent condition.

For my own games, being reduced to 0 or lower Resistance means you're reeling, bleeding out, being consumed with doubt, stunned, being indecisive, fatigued and gasping for breath, etc. and can only interact in the adventure by talking, moving slowly, cringing from the pain, basically adding to the drama of the scene. I would allow action by spending a Karma Die (what I call Competence Dice in my games) to take action but only the Karma Dice count, you're too banged up to use any of your Aptitudes or Powers actively. Using Resistances, Aptitudes, and Powers defensively while you're Reeling is fine. When you fall below negative Resistance you're 'OUT!' meaning your character is removed from play temporarily either on death's door or in a coma, consumed with doubt leaves the scene, or otherwise shut down. This hasnt happened yet but when it does there will probably be a permanent change to the character such a permanent injury or other ailment, psychological trauma, etc.

>>ReaperWolf

novaexpress
06-25-2011, 12:24 PM
The rule about the 3 dice only, works for normal humans, according to the rules (p.7). And, not for mutants, monsters, Gods, etc. But, I suppose it would be more advised to use it for any and all characters (except mooks and henchmen, of course).
I like your karma dice rule. I'll use it.

ReaperWolf
06-25-2011, 01:07 PM
Novaexpress, first of all welcome. It's great being able to chat about this because these are some issues I've hit while reading and evaluating the rules for my upcoming campaign.

I see where you're coming from but this issue makes SUPERS! a little lopsided and encourages playing mutants, monsters, androids, aliens, gods, demons etc. over mundane" secret agents, martial artists, and mystery men, etc. In the world of SUPERS! Batman and other non-super heroes would be at a distinct disadvantage.

The rule you're referring to is on page 7 and it basically says if you're a mundane character you only get to keep 3D when rolling Resistances and the example used is Gemini who's a highly trained but normal woman. Bullocks I say!

The only advantage normals have over supers is the Normal Ad which costs them 1D and only gives them +2 Competency dice which is ridiculous since if I want 2 Competency Dice in my pool I just don't spend all 20 of my points during character creation. Not much of an advantage since you can NEVER develop super powers, you're always be limited to keeping 3D for Resistances, you're limited to keeping 3D for Aptitudes (page 10) and no matter how well you roll on the dice your results can't exceed 18 (page 42) assuming Gemini counts as Exceptional and not Mundane which would make her even less formidable if her dice rolls were limited to 12. Of course Competency Dice break this rule allowing you to roll and keep extra dice, presumably you're allowed to exceed the limits listed on page 42 (I hope) otherwise mundane characters are pretty much useless against anybody but other mundane characters.

It gets pretty murky mechanically and I foresee either a lot of houserules or Simon issues an expanded/clarified/revised version in the near future.

Incidentally, where are you located?

Warmest regards,

>>ReaperWolf

Simon W
06-25-2011, 01:41 PM
I see where you're coming from but this issue makes SUPERS! a little lopsided and encourages playing mutants, monsters, androids, aliens, gods, demons etc. over mundane" secret agents, martial artists, and mystery men, etc. In the world of SUPERS! Batman and other non-super heroes would be at a distinct disadvantage.

The rule you're referring to is on page 7 and it basically says if you're a mundane character you only get to keep 3D when rolling Resistances and the example used is Gemini who's a highly trained but normal woman. Bullocks I say!

The only advantage normals have over supers is the Normal Ad which costs them 1D and only gives them +2 Competency dice which is ridiculous since if I want 2 Competency Dice in my pool I just don't spend all 20 of my points during character creation. Not much of an advantage since you can NEVER develop super powers, you're always be limited to keeping 3D for Resistances, you're limited to keeping 3D for Aptitudes (page 10) and no matter how well you roll on the dice your results can't exceed 18 (page 42) assuming Gemini counts as Exceptional and not Mundane which would make her even less formidable if her dice rolls were limited to 12. Of course Competency Dice break this rule allowing you to roll and keep extra dice, presumably you're allowed to exceed the limits listed on page 42 (I hope) otherwise mundane characters are pretty much useless against anybody but other mundane characters.

It gets pretty murky mechanically and I foresee either a lot of houserules or Simon issues an expanded/clarified/revised version in the near future.

>>ReaperWolf

It doesn't get murky mechanically - so, no I don't use a lot of houserules. All the rules I use are in the book, We've played SUPERS! tons of times, as is and, despite your reservations, mundanes do what I intended them to do. They don't tend to do great if they are in a one-on-one with a SUPER but they are mundanes! They shouldn't expect to be able to stand up to superpowers every time and win. What they have is far more Aptitudes, making them far more versatile. They can do the investigative work, patch characters up when they've been hurt, talk to people, deal with the press, do the legwork and so on. When they have to, for a short time using their extra Competency Dice, they can do enough to escape, or get a brief "edge" over a Supervillain, last a few rounds for help to arrive and so on.

However, SUPERS! is easily homeruled if you want/need to - that's exactly why I wrote it like that. You can add things, ditch things, create new things. It is versatile and adaptable. Remember though, if you change things and then SUPERS! doesn't work, don't blame SUPERS! straight away. Look again at what you've done first and see if there is another way to get the same effect that you wanted.

I've seen it before in other rules - people have changed something and then something else doesn't work, so they change that and keep going until the whole thing falls apart. Then they say [insert game system] is cr*p and go away play something else!

novaexpress
06-25-2011, 03:16 PM
Both of your explanations make sense.
I suppose that only running the game will help to chose if I have to modify the rule about the 3D max in the Resistances.

BTW, I read the disad Normal and its effets.
If I understand it right, if a character owns some gadgets with power-like effects, he looses the Normal disad?

@Reaper: I'm from Nice, French Riviera, France.

ReaperWolf
06-25-2011, 06:42 PM
Full disclosure I goofed. :)

Normal is a disad and therefore worth 1D. Caffeine hadn't quite reached my brain. Apologies for any confusion.

So for gaining 1D you gain 2 Competency dice but you're still not allowed to develop powers and you're still hobbled by being limited to 3D in Resistances and can at most get an 18 on a die roll. That's pretty huge.

Novaexpress does bring up a very good question regarding gadgets. I'm guessing powers through a gadget don't fall under the restrictions of the Normal disad?

Houserules can make or break a game I agree but after nearly three decades of GMing experience I'm not afraid to tinker to satisfy myself and/or my players.

>>ReaperWolf

Maltese Changeling
07-28-2011, 12:53 PM
Resurrecting this thread because I want clarification on the issue of mundanity . . .

Resistances: While p. 7 does state that normal humans are limited to keeping 3D after rolling their Resistance, no matter how many dice they have in the score, it seems to me that "normal human" is a status that only applies to player characters who take the "Normal" Disadvantage. Yes or no?

Aptitudes: The rules are quite clear here that, normal or not, all characters' aptitudes cap at 3D (with the one exception being specialities, and even there the PC is still limited to taking the best 3D of X).

Powers: Since Power dice can be spent on Aptitudes and Resistances, it doesn't seem to me that they automatically designate anyone either "normal" or "super." Again, yes or no?

Simon W
07-29-2011, 01:55 AM
Yes
Yes - because there is nothing "super" about Aptitudes
Correct

The caveat is, as always, if it works better for you another way, do it.

Maltese Changeling
07-31-2011, 07:32 AM
A quick question about resolution systems:

1. Unopposed rolls. Roll >= Target is PROFIT! (I.e., equalling the target # is a success as is exceeding it.) There's no explicit statement of this in the book, but it's implied strongly on p. 43 when it's mentioned that the best a normal person can do on a task is roll an 18 and make Improbable difficulty.

2. Opposed rolls (including combat). No target per se; each side rolls off. Attacker's roll < defender's = failure. Attacker's roll = defender's = inconclusive tie (effectively failure). Attacker's roll > defender's = PROFIT! Attacker scores 1 damage for every multiple of N (where N = defense roll/Mook rating). Simon has clarified this on rpg.net, and Grubman's damage chart (thank you, Grubman) follows suit.

Simon, was there any particular design reason for the difference between the two systems?