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MrFrost
01-30-2011, 12:41 PM
Greetings Everyone,
I am running an Forgotten Realms Campaign (3e) and I have a rather large plot line around the return of a dead power. Now I have the Faiths & Pantheons and I understand how to go about building the Deity from scratch. What I am having a problem with is their Rank. Now as a former Deity they have very few followers so I am going to assume that their rank would be quite low, the problem is trying to figure out and Deity Rank to Worshipers ratio. Now I seem to remember seeing an table some where that had shown how many worshipers are needed for each Deity rank, but for the life of me I cant seem to remember where and I poured through the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, Dungeon Masters Guide and Faiths & Pantheons an found nothing. Any help would really mean a lot and get me out of this jam.

DMMike
01-31-2011, 08:47 PM
Rule Zero: the DM is always right.

Malruhn
02-01-2011, 12:17 AM
I may argue with him on a regular basis - but I gotta second DMMike's answer. YOU are the arbiter of all that is worldly - if the deity is reborn as a teeny-tiny power, then he's a teeny-tiny power. If he is reborn in all his glory and eats deities like Zeus and Odin for breakfast - then he'll be eating deities all day long.

It could be as simple as that there are multiple realities, and where this deity has been hiding he has ZILLIONS of followers and he truly is a greater power.

tesral
02-01-2011, 05:00 PM
Third. Especially considering we are talking deities here. While yes I have rules for dieties, they are not mortals and don't follow the same strictures.

As I would do it: If he has little in the way of worshipers he would have all his power and glory, but a small fuel tank if you will. Do some major godly stuff and need to take a long nap type thing.

I have exactly this type of circumstance occuring in the game right now. The PCs sense a viable threat to life on their world. They are running about trying to find and awaken every forgotten god they can (that they think will be helpful) In the 300 years since the gods were locked away the worship of these gods has fallen away. When found they have all the capacity they ever had, but don't have much stamina.

MrFrost
02-02-2011, 09:56 AM
That's a really good idea Tesral, I could have him go on an rampage doing all sort of devastating damage then vanish for a few hundred year cat nap while the mortals revel in his glory and wraith. An bam someone got a few new worshipers!

DMMike
02-02-2011, 11:00 AM
Take a look at some old pantheons. You'll probably find that the gods weren't following any rules beyond what you'll find in drama class. Maybe the returning dead power has some good dirt on his half-brother.

tesral
02-02-2011, 12:28 PM
The old gods seldom have manners better than the average preschooler, if that good.

Silverthorne
02-09-2011, 07:39 PM
Make him a high level adventure class. 20+ level.. Or better 30+.. Mage is best for being able to actually function at that level.. Without his worshipers he is still a bad individual. With his abilites he can easily gain new followers. Any exceptionally high level character is good, even more if they have the leadership feat. You gain the cohort and can say that they are worshipers of the character. He/she moves in and builds a temple in a remote area and starts gaining followers.

tesral
02-10-2011, 03:08 AM
There is an ancient book called "The Primal Order" published by Lizards when they made not card games and well before D&D. I believe that a good deal of this book found its way into the 3e Deities and Demigods.(I don't have a copy)

It's a decent system for building gods.

MrFrost
02-10-2011, 09:02 AM
I found him in an old 2e source book that had him as a level 30 Fighter. Though when I envision him I see him more as a Fallen Druid/Blighter/Fighter rather then just a flat fighter, so what I think i may do is up his level a bit so he fits in with 3e well and give him a rank of 3. I gather that would be about 300-500 worshipers.

tesral
02-10-2011, 12:02 PM
Then go for it. Your game,, your god. I can't confirm the rank as I don't have that book. I use a different system developed back in the dark ages and stick with it mainly for continuity.

nijineko
02-14-2011, 12:39 AM
the d20srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#divineRanks) mentions some concrete numbers relating to divine rank and worshipers. the original source would be the deities and demigods book.

tesral
02-14-2011, 01:17 AM
Or "The Primal Order (http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Order-Peter-Adkison/dp/1880992000)" if you can find that. It's the same material without the d20 references.

Soft Serve
04-08-2011, 12:59 PM
That's a really good idea Tesral, I could have him go on an rampage doing all sort of devastating damage then vanish for a few hundred year cat nap while the mortals revel in his glory and wraith. An bam someone got a few new worshipers!

Cthulhu?

nijineko
04-10-2011, 11:53 PM
nah, munchies depletes the would-be worshipers too quickly.

Otakar
08-21-2011, 07:26 PM
The old gods seldom have manners better than the average preschooler, if that good.

I like this quote. It reminds me of "Erik The Viking".

tesral
08-21-2011, 10:50 PM
I am curmudgeon, hear me roar.

Malruhn
08-22-2011, 01:51 PM
I read the thread title three times and STILL read it as, "Help with Creating a Baby."

Maybe I need to step away from the computer more often...

Sascha
08-22-2011, 04:04 PM
I read the thread title three times and STILL read it as, "Help with Creating a Baby."
Congratulations, it's a Borr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borr)!

Soft Serve
08-22-2011, 06:54 PM
Is that a trope?

Sascha
08-22-2011, 07:36 PM
Yes. Yes, it is. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IncrediblyLamePun)

(Though this one is a tvtropes link, the "Borr" link goes to That Other Wiki. Y'know, the one that wants citations and sources.)

Soft Serve
08-22-2011, 09:04 PM
Now I'm on TVtropes... and I had plans tonight... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife)

tesral
08-23-2011, 02:29 AM
I read the thread title three times and STILL read it as, "Help with Creating a Baby."

Maybe I need to step away from the computer more often...

Today on "Your cosmology";, erotic arts & crafts.


Yes, I would say that is a yes.

fmitchell
08-23-2011, 07:43 AM
Returning somewhat to the thread, and blowing my own vuvuzela in the process (and don't think I won't feel that in the morning), a while back I wrote a few thoughts on gods and religions (http://www.frank-mitchell.com/games/rpg-gods.html). Maybe your dead power is qualitatively different from other D&D gods. Or maybe you want to laugh at my misspellings and incomplete sentences. Whatever.

nijineko
08-30-2011, 12:43 AM
well, you could always hit yourself in the head and see if that works.... ^^

Sascha
08-30-2011, 10:59 AM
<snip>a few thoughts on gods and religions (http://localhost/%7Efrankmitchell/games/rpg-gods.html)<snip>
Hmm, deity musing turns up a 404: There are no gods!

(May want to check the url, there :P)

fmitchell
08-30-2011, 09:14 PM
Hmm, deity musing turns up a 404: There are no gods!

(May want to check the url, there :P)

Argh, I used the URL for my local mirror; should have been http://www.frank-mitchell.com/games/rpg-gods.html . Fixed in the original post.

Malruhn
08-31-2011, 09:11 AM
My god, man! That is a WONDERFUL work-up!!

That has EVERYTHING a person would need to deify their compaign world.

Consider yourself bookmarked!

tesral
08-31-2011, 01:38 PM
Argh, I used the URL for my local mirror; should have been http://www.frank-mitchell.com/games/rpg-gods.html . Fixed in the original post.

Most excellent write up. I plan to crib heavily from that if you don't mind. Add this list to it. My basic religion gloss.

God worshiped:
Sphere of Influence:
Sacred Colors:
Sacred Animal:
Place of Worship:
Worship Days:
Holy Days:
Propitiation/Sacrifices:
Holy Writings:
Favored Deities:
Disliked deities:
Favored Governments:
Disliked Governments:

Teachings and Other Information-- Worshiper Requirements:

Typical Worshiper:
Sex of worshiper:
Minimum Age:
Race:
Worship of Other Gods?:
If Yes, Any restrictions?:

Commandments--

War & Fighting:
Love and Marriage:
Duty to Liege Lord:
Self Interests:
Duty to Religion:
Other:
Afterlife Expectations:

Clerical Requirements--

Name of Order:
Statement of Mission:
Sex of Cleric:
Minimum age:
Race:
Sexual Practices Allowed or Required:
Wealth and Magic Allowed:
Oaths of Ordination:
Special Attributes Needed:
Special Abilities Given by Level:
Weapons Allowed:
Armor Allowed:
Special Commandments:

Clerical Ranks--
name -- level
Duties:
Privileges:
Vestments:

Who's Who in the Religion

Soft Serve
09-01-2011, 06:56 PM
If there was a "like" button on every single post between this one, and my last one, I would have tried to click them each at least 3 times...

nijineko
09-03-2011, 02:27 PM
except for mine, i expect. that was a subtle reference to athena, iirc, and how she came into being, btw. a little joke on my part.

tesral
09-03-2011, 06:13 PM
Those Greeks were twisted. Athena was sopmehow better becasue no woman was involved, but it was still a girl.

Soft Serve
09-03-2011, 06:31 PM
Those Greeks were twisted. Athena was sopmehow better becasue no woman was involved, but it was still a girl.

Seriously though. Those Greeks were twisted.

nijineko
09-04-2011, 11:17 AM
i always thought of it as a corrupted version of the adam and eve story myself.

furthermore, as most gods are not considered to have blood, i thought that was a bit odd too.

Soft Serve
09-04-2011, 12:08 PM
i always thought of it as a corrupted version of the adam and eve story myself.

furthermore, as most gods are not considered to have blood, i thought that was a bit odd too.

Well he is a god. He could probably get blood if he wanted. Actually I'm a mortal and I KNOW I could get blood if I wanted... Probably some legal channels to go through first though....

nijineko
09-04-2011, 05:11 PM
heh. i was more thinking of the illogic of him getting wounded in the first place and bleeding. and the fact that he bled. but yeah. not hard to obtain. i've always been interested in the various creation and origin stories.