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DMMike
10-04-2010, 01:25 PM
So I don't have a copy of Vicious Villains, or Maniacal Monsters, or whatever the monster-to-PC book is called. But I want my PCs to be able to use an ogre as a character race.

So far, I've tried making ogre levels for a PC to take, or just take ogre as a race.

The levels:
1 - 2d8 HD, base attack as barbarian, good save fort, skills as barbarian, weapon and armor as barbarian, special +2 STR, -2 DEX, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2 CHA, +3 natural AC.

2 - 2d8 HD, base attack as barbarian, good save fort, skills as barbarian, special +2 STR, +2 CON, +2 natural AC.

The race:
Large size, STR +4, DEX -2, CON +4, INT -2, CHA -2, natural AC +4, preferred class barbarian, giant-blooded, and...
XP penalty (ECL +1): character gains half experience until reaching level 2.

Wanna help me balance either of these out? How'd I do?

RMajere
10-04-2010, 01:47 PM
I think what you're looking for is the Ogre monster class from the Savage Species book, pg 189.

It's actually a 6 level monster class. Comes with Racial bonuses and doesn't get large size until 5th level of the class.

Hope this helps. Or at least lets you know where to look.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
10-04-2010, 06:34 PM
I never worried about balance, especially when it came to large players such as ogres. Good rule of thumb - and a great way to balance an imbalance: Make all baddies focus their attacks on the monstrous character (compared to the others in the party) first. It's the great equalizer, and something every creature of average intelligence on down would choose to do. I only mention this if you are unable to find the source your looking for (waves hand from right to left in front of face).

d-_-b
10-08-2010, 02:37 PM
Monster Manual 1, page 199

DMMike
10-08-2010, 11:24 PM
Yeah, I spotted that. Doesn't do me much good though, since I don't want a bunch of ECL 1s, and then an ECL 2 or 3. And it gives ogres +10 STR, which is a pretty quick recipe for dealing with a STR 28 in a low-level party. Not good. So after noticing some issues, this is what I'm thinking...

The levels:
1 - 2d8 HD, base attack as barbarian, good save fort, skills as barbarian, medium armor, simple weapons, special +3 STR, -2 DEX, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2 CHA, +3 natural AC.

2 - 2d8 HD, base attack as barbarian, good save fort, skills as barbarian, special +3 STR, +2 CON, +2 natural AC.

The race:
Large size, STR +6, DEX -2, CON +4, INT -2, CHA -2, natural AC +4, preferred class barbarian, giant-blooded, and...
XP penalty (ECL +1): character gains half experience until reaching level 2.

I'm hoping the extra level of the racial levels justifies the extra hit dice, versus no extra hit dice for the ogre race, which only has about one level penalty.

d-_-b
10-09-2010, 04:58 PM
I agree that it might be unfavorable to have a character who is effectively lvl 6 running loose in your lvl 1 party which is why I personally would not make the ogre available as a player race for a lvl 1-5 party.

What I don't get is why you think it would be a problem to have a lvl 1 character with STR 28. Even with the relative modest bonus of STR +3 at first level your ogre is gonna hit and kill whatever CR 1 and 2 monster he is aiming at!

As for the "gains half experience until reaching level 2", well, that is going to be offset in no time as the characters rise in level. It will not hold him back but only feel like a slight nuisance the DM threw at him/her after being coaxed into playing an ogre in the first place. As for the HD question I think that the increase in CON makes up for only getting a single HD. 2D8 is too much.

I think that what you are trying to create here winds up being an overpowered barbarian who can use large weapons without a penalty. I know it is not your intention but it is how it looks to me.

If this is to work I would recommend that you stick with the warrior class progression as stipulated in MM1 p 199 + your ability increases and spread it out over, say, 4 levels instead of 2, as you suggest.

nijineko
10-16-2010, 01:20 AM
half ogre works too... for some the dragon mag version is nicer than the savage species one.

DMMike
10-19-2010, 10:36 PM
d-b, I made ogres into a civilized race, so it follows that if I want all civilized races to be playable, ogres become playable.

There's still a significant difference between STR 28 and STR 16, especially at low levels. My guess is that it won't quite mean that my enemies are all doomed, so much as I'll have to use smarter tactics when the enemies have intelligence or wisdom.

Combat butt-whooping is a definite bonus for a Large creature (PC), but I think it opens up some roleplaying options and consequences like: the ogre uses Intimidate on everyone, even passively, Large size weapons will generally have to be special ordered (along with armor), some cave and dungeon tunnels become off-limits, enemies tend to focus on the ogre first, and the party has the option of climbing the Cliffs of Insanity.

I re-tinkered the XP penalty to end at level 3, putting the ogre a full level behind party mates who are at 4. So an ogre character will lag behind by a level from about level 2 to 5. Whether this is a decent bribe to non-ogre players, remains to be playtested.

One perk of allowing civilized races as PCs: the party can now contain both a giant and a gnome. Or goblin. Think of the possibilities!

RannXerox
02-08-2011, 07:09 PM
I played with a half ogre for a while and it was very fun. He was dumb as rocks and past brute strength was useless. This allowed the other PCs to use skills, spells, dialog, etc. We were fighter weak so it worked out.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
02-08-2011, 07:41 PM
Yeah, a bonehead half-ogre is right up there with a half-orc. Dumb as a stump but brings sooo much to the game.