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View Full Version : Spontaneous Spell Casting Changes??



Malruhn
09-19-2010, 06:56 PM
I have recently begun thinking of a major change to my campaign world... dumping ALL fire-and-forget spell casting and allow ALL folks to cast spontaneously. Personally, I've always had a problem that divine casters had to be hamstrung like that, so I made that change long ago.

My problem now lies in this:

What the heck do I do for those people that LOVE to play fire-and-forget wizards? How do I make a wizard DIFFERENT from a sorcerer, now that they both are fire and forget? Why bother? Will the Sox win the pennant? Will Marge and Tom ever get back together? These, and other questions are keeping me up at night.

Thank you all!

DMMike
09-19-2010, 11:33 PM
1) What's fire and forget?
2) Did you dump all fire and forget, or did you promote one spell casting class to that category?
3) What do divine casters have to do with this?

Malruhn
09-20-2010, 04:31 PM
1. Fire and forget - Vancian system of spell casting... I get a good night's sleep and then study my spells. My first level wizard can now cast Sleep and Magic Missile, one time each. Later that day, I cast Sleep on a group of goblins, and this leaves me with only one spell - MM - for the rest of the day. This is directly antithetical to the spontaneous spellcaster, where they KNOW all their spells, and can cast any of them as needed, up to the limit per day for that level.

2. I dumped F&F for clerics and druids to promote the idea that they can cast what they need as needed - because they just need to call on their deity to get the power.

3. Divine casters are stuck with Wizards in the RAW for being F&F casters... so I included them.

DMMike
09-20-2010, 08:36 PM
Gotcha.

Not a lot you can do for Fire aNd Forget lovers, if you got rid of FNF. You could make the wizard a little different by using the spellbook as an implement - sorcerors cast from memory, wizards cast directly from the spellbook.

You also might want to carefully examine the difference between "knowing" spells, and how the magical energy gets harnessed.

bloodtide
09-21-2010, 05:52 PM
If everyone casts spontaneously, how can wizards and sorcerors DIFFERENT? You'd have to go and re-do both classes from the ground up.

I like the Vancian system as it's simple....even more so for young and/or not so good gamers. When you tell someone they can pick from a dozen spells, they often get confused. It's much nicer to have them pick from the five spells they have.

tesral
09-29-2010, 02:38 AM
I ditched fire and forget years ago. Frankly without it the sorcerer is pointless.

Wizards
You know twice the spells you can cast a day.
You can prepare one spell per day per slot.
You cast from the prepared spells at will. Mix and match to your spell casting limit.

Clerics:
Need no spell book. Spells come directly from god.

kirksmithicus
09-29-2010, 11:07 AM
I've always viewed the Sorcerer more as a home-grown, self-taught wizard. As opposed to the Wizard, who went to school, or an apprenticeship. Formal vs. Informal learning of the magic arts dichotomy.

Fire and forget is a bad system IMO.

Wizards should have more spells to start with and have an easier time learning new spells due to the training. Sorcerer should have fewer spells but they might be slightly more powerful than the normal version of the spell. They should also have a more difficult time learning new spells. At the same time, they will have more time to spend learning other things.

I would go with not having to prepare spells ahead of time. If it's in your spell book, then you know it. A wizard or sorcerer should have a good memory and be able to remember all his spells (maybe this is why they seem absent minded, just trying to keep everything straight) . A spell book is something to keep rituals, formula's, and notes in. Not something to thumb through in the heat of battle looking for the correct recipe for making french toast. They would be able to cast from all the spells they know, even repeating spells if they like. All you have to do is set it up as a simple point system. Level 1 spell = 1 point, level 2 = 2 points, and so on. Convert the total # of spell slots into a point total.

This of course opens up issues with balance, because D&D's magic system wasn't designed with this system in mind.

A point system can be used to introduce even more flexibility if you let the wizard character burn spell points to increase things like range, duration, and damage.

Malruhn
09-29-2010, 11:32 PM
So, Garry, you dumped Sorcerers completely? I hadn't thunk of that... and with your twist with the FnF wizards, it makes a good transition.

Kirk, I like that - it could be done with an auto metamagic feat that is applied to each spell at no cost to spell level. This would allow it to go farther, hurt more, cover more area than a wizard's spell.

tesral
09-30-2010, 01:28 AM
More a case of I never added them. I had dropped fire and forget long before 3.0. Ergo the Sorcerer didn't make any sense to add.

cplmac
10-01-2010, 03:22 PM
I use a graduated system of when magic users need to no longer keep rememorizing spells. I can't see where say a 10th level mage needs to keep rememorizing that magic missle spell. By the time they reach that level, they would have been studying magic long enough that the low level spells should be long comitted to memory.

DMMike
10-02-2010, 01:15 AM
From what I could tell about 3E - preparing spells isn't a memory issue. It's weaving the magical energy together, which then waits to pop. That's why I like the Reserve Feats idea; as long as you have higher level spells prepared (i.e. magic power stored up), you can use a small portion of that to cast lower/weaker level spells.

You could say that wizards stock their magical shelves with spells, while sorcerors leave their solar-powered spell batteries in the sun for a while. They're different types of magic-users, not right-or-wrong magic users.

But then, I'm an exception to the rule. In my game, not only do I have prayer spells, prepared spells, and spontaneous spells, but I also have musical spells, supernatural-gift spells, and plane-intersection spells. Makes my head spin...

tesral
10-02-2010, 03:23 AM
I have five sources of magic. Arcane magic, prepared spells but they do not vanish when cast. Earth magic that is basically spontaneous casting. However, the flavor of the spells is more subtle, no fireballs. Clerical magic, pray and get. Death magic. Necromancers are truly different gaining power from the dying of other life. Nasty types. Death is easy to master, and for that reason never really goes away, but it twists those that practice it into abominations. Last is Life magic, those that gain energy from the living of other creatures. It is the most difficult to master. There are currently no adepts of this craft.