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DM_Running_Farland_3.5
09-06-2010, 10:51 PM
I understand the how of it (rape, bad taste in men/women). But why? Metagame and design. Why?

I think my new campaign will not have "half-orcs". It will have a group of hominids that have half-orc stats. But they are full-breed Whatevericallthems.

Thoughts? Calls to tar and feather me?

fmitchell
09-07-2010, 04:14 AM
I understand the how of it (rape, bad taste in men/women). But why? Metagame and design. Why?

Tolkien implied humans and orcs could interbreed: humans with orcish features spying in Bree, orcs with humanlike stature as a possible origin for the Uruk-Hai, etc. So they tossed it in. Perhaps Gygax and Arneson never thought through the implications of how Always Chaotic Evil creatures would attract human mates. Plus, there's always somebody who wants to play an anti-hero, or an alienated half-breed, or the big bruiser with a hair-trigger temper.

BTW, one of 4e's Bowdlerized origins of "half-orcs" is, indeed, a specially bred hominid species unrelated either to orcs or humans.

Crom on his Mountain
09-07-2010, 12:10 PM
Half-Orcs were thrown in so people could play a physically powerful non-human. Gygax and Arneson certainly gave thought as to how orcs attract human mates, they rape them.

DM_Running_Farland_3.5
09-07-2010, 09:25 PM
fm, crom.

Right. As I said. I understand the how. And the why, even. But...

I suppose the real question is:

What else can we do? Will people still want to play a non-half-orc that has +2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha?

I certainly would. I would love the idea of having a home for that PC. But, obviously I would like to. That is why I am considering throwing it into my campaign.

bloodtide
09-07-2010, 10:26 PM
I think you miss the 'trick' of Half-Orcs.

A big dumb and uncharismatic human race that has great strength. Maybe make them 'savage' from a far off Dark Continent? Maybe make them former slave of the other humans?

Oh no..Red Flag!

Much better to make a non human race.

DM_Running_Farland_3.5
09-07-2010, 10:49 PM
Nah. I get the trick. And I want to keep that. The savagosity is to be kept.

I am thinking of setting them as the main race in a late Neolithic/early Bronze Age campaign. Not the brightest bunch, but wise enough to learn new tricks that will help them along. Strong enough to take what they want, but uncharasmatic enough to not hold it well.

Utgardloki
09-07-2010, 11:07 PM
Why not half orcs?

Half-orcs have been part of the game as long as elves and dwarves have. One might as well ask why play a halfling, or a gnome.

(Why _would_ somebody play a gnome?)

I'm considering making a setting where the choices for PCs do not include elves and dwarves, but that is a setting thing.

Since 3rd Edition came out, the archetype of the half-orc paladin or monk, seeking to repress her brutal nature, atone for the crimes of her ancestors, and fit in a society that is against her, is one of the beloved 3rd Edition tropes.

In Pathfinder, they've added a half-orc female inquisitor to the list of iconic characters. Nothing like a green-skinned chick in a big hat wanting to ask you some questions.

tesral
09-08-2010, 04:32 PM
I don't use them. Why? Orcs have better taste.

I don't have alignment, therefore the behavior of Orcs must have a logical reason. Reason, Orcs have a very narrow "people button". Narrow enough that even other tribes of Orcs might not be considered "people". Such creatures as Humans and Elves? Never.

To Orcs other humanoids are smart animals that do not make messes indoors...mostly. They are sometimes useful for labor and food. Only a lowest of the low, and a pervert to boot would actually think of having sex with a non Orc, eeeew, bestiality. Any male low enough to do such a thing would be killed, and his lover had for dinner. No Orc woman would allow herself to be so shamed and would willingly kill herself before being so raped. Orcs have a culture, an ethos, and pride in who and what they are.

So to get a half Orc you need:
Situation One: A non Orc female captured alive, a sick pervert of a Male Orc and she gets away before she gives birth/get's found out, and doesn't toss the child in the trash or abort it.
Scenario Two: Female Orc captured. Non Orc male desperate and sick enough to rape her (She isn't going to help.) and keep her long enough to get the child and give it to someone else to raise, she would kill it in a second, and rip his balls off before killing him on the way out.

Ergo, there are no half Orcs on my world.

This is not so say I universally dislike the idea. I don't, I might even play one if the circumstances were right. Not in my world however.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
09-08-2010, 05:32 PM
Half-Orcs certainly do play a role in my games, as do gnomes! We all know where Half-Orcs come from, but it has never come up in the 3+ decades of playing dnd. If how Half-Orcs have come into existence is an issue, then use the term half-orc as a slang-derogatory for a whole new race. Seems, i remember someone on these boards a year ago or so dealt with them in this way.

No Tar-and-Feathering will come from me, but watch out for those unforgiving WFRP Dwarves.

In the end, whatever you decide for your world will be the right choice for you. One of the beauty's of dnd is that i have never played the same game twice in over 30 years. There was always some change in the world according to what the DM thought best. Reason 6006 on why dnd is great!

tesral
09-08-2010, 08:39 PM
Ayup, viva la difference

DM_Running_Farland_3.5
09-08-2010, 10:17 PM
Roge

Just looking for input from you all whom I trust so muchly when it comes to design questions.

alms66
09-09-2010, 12:01 AM
I don't really like the half-anything concept personally. Different species aren't able to interbreed for the most part in the real world, changing over to a fantasy world doesn't really need to violate that law, so I always say it doesn't. Now, if magic enters the picture, where a spell combines two different creatures or modifies a fetus in the womb to have features of another race, then ok, but natural, no.
The product of all the Orc-raping would just be lots of angry humans, IMO.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
09-09-2010, 12:27 AM
War is Hell

tesral
09-09-2010, 02:02 AM
I don't really like the half-anything concept personally. Different species aren't able to interbreed for the most part in the real world.

I will tell the horses and donkeys to stop at once. Also the lions and tigers. It can happen, the result is usually a sterile hybrid. Whether you allow it our not depends on how close you see the various humanoid species. I have a world where nearly anything can breed with anything else. There are Exotics; the cross between a sentient and an animal. Half nearly anything you can imagine and a few you would rather not.

What I don't like is the "half-something" name. I've been using it for years and I have to say I don't really like it. Note the assumption that a half-anything is that thing and Human.

I hereby resolve to come up with other names for all my halfs.

Half Orcs are loved by no one I would imagine. Humans consider them trash, Orcs no better. I can see Orcs being blunt about it, and calling half Orcs "afterbirth", the stuff you throw out in other words, but said more rudely. Coin a nasty sounding word for it. I don't own a Common to Orcish dictionary. Maazh. Calling one that will generally get you punched. Humans that don't hate them call them muls; short for mule.

Half elves are not generally so rudely treated. The Quenya word for man is "atan" Near is nev. So Nevatami. "Near men"

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
09-09-2010, 08:45 PM
In my opinion, half-orcs are an even more enjoyable race to play since they are outcasts of both the Orcs and the Humans. Half-Orcs are so underappreciated. I say, give 'em their rights to be acknowledged as living beings! Don't be a hater.

tesral
09-09-2010, 10:06 PM
If I did that they would lose the outcast status you like so much. .:fish:

alms66
09-10-2010, 04:21 AM
I will tell the horses and donkeys to stop at once. Also the lions and tigers. It can happen, the result is usually a sterile hybrid.
And thus the "for the most part" of the sentence. ;)
You can allow it or disallow it, I just don't need the extra races, nor do I need the responsibility of deciding which races can or cannot, thus I say none can. It makes life easier.

tesral
09-10-2010, 11:14 AM
So you disallow half elves as well? I just wish to be clear on that.

The one fellow suggested what he called the "Just Folks" game. Everyone is Human, even the non-Humans. The differences in "race" are due to isolated populations, genetic drift and culture. Dwarves are Humans that took up a mining culture. Being short and powerful was an advantage. Orcs are simply barbarians living on the edges of society. Elves are professional hippies and things like that. Anyone can breed with anyone because they are all still Human under the superficial differences. It is one way to handle the whole humanoid races question. I rather liked it myself. I'm not changing my world to adapt it, but it is a neat idea.

I run the other way. High magic means nearly anything can breed with nearly anything. I have the "Mom's Legs" rule. The child will have Mom's number of legs. The Egg Layer Rule: A male egg layer can breed with a female live bearer. A female egg layer cannot breed with a male live bearer. And the You Have to be kidding Rule: If I can't think of a reasonable hybrid, it can't happen. While rare things like Dwelfs (Dwarf /Elf) and Gobbits (Gnome/Hobbit) can and do happen.

fmitchell
09-10-2010, 12:17 PM
Not to summon my own trumpet archon, but I was the fellow, and here is the post (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php/13202-The-quot-Just-Folks-quot-Campaign).

alms66
09-10-2010, 03:25 PM
No half-elves either for me.
I actually saw that post, thought it was pretty cool. That's a different way to play for sure.

fmitchell
09-10-2010, 09:53 PM
No half-elves either for me.

Another untested idea of mind are that "elves"/"half-elves" are actually hybrids between humans and Faerie. (In this version, Faerie are shape-changing "outsiders" neither wholly material nor wholly spiritual, somewhat like demons or Lovecraftian Great Old Ones.) Each half-faerie is unique: some are essentially humans with otherworldly features (not necessarily the same ones), while others "look more like their fathers" but with the weaknesses of flesh. Two common variations are human-like beings with a profound mastery of magic, and creatures who change shape -- including volume, mass, and occasionally state of matter -- as quickly as thought but lack the true faerie mastery over nature.

As for half-orcs ... I've got nothing. Maybe exceptionally ugly humans or especially intelligent/charismatic orcs? Maybe a sterile slave race similar to Dark Sun's Muls?

DM_Running_Farland_3.5
09-10-2010, 10:08 PM
Hi FM...see you in here.

Again. Thanks for all the comments, ya'll. This will serve as good mulling for the campaign.

---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

One thing I am still trying to flesh out is the metagame reason.
What niche (balance-wise) do they fill?

Crom on his Mountain
09-11-2010, 04:48 AM
I run the other way. High magic means nearly anything can breed with nearly anything. I have the "Mom's Legs" rule. The child will have Mom's number of legs. The Egg Layer Rule: A male egg layer can breed with a female live bearer. A female egg layer cannot breed with a male live bearer. And the You Have to be kidding Rule: If I can't think of a reasonable hybrid, it can't happen. While rare things like Dwelfs (Dwarf /Elf) and Gobbits (Gnome/Hobbit) can and do happen.

I actually like that. Most of my campaigns are low magic and serious, but it would definitely work for my version of Freeport campaigns. That game throws logic completely out the window, now here comes Man-Bear-Pig.

tesral
09-11-2010, 10:29 AM
High fantasy can be serious, mine is. Good fantasy never throws logic out the window, it works off an internal logic that isn't possible in the real world. Fantasy; high, low, or otherwise is never an excuse for inconsistency and bad world building.

J.K. Rawlings lost me at the third book with her obvious, "I'm making this up as I go" lack of consistent world building and frank illogic.

rurikjapa
09-12-2010, 12:19 AM
In one of my homebrew campaign setting, there were a tribe of mountain-dwelling orcs living near several clans of semi-nomadic human barbarian types. Sure, they fought and slew each other, but eventually there was a truce and the orcish tribes would visit the human clans and vice versa for contests of strength and skill. Eventually, their cultures were so used to one another that interbreeding occurred. Despite the fact that the clans and tribes got along, and that many of their half-breed children could find a place within either culture, there were always individuals who felt alientated by BOTH scocieties and adventured to find their place. The trick is not explaining why a creature with a certain alignment functions a certain way, the trick is understanding that as the DM, as long as your justification makes sense to you and the players, have fun.

Utgardloki
09-12-2010, 12:36 PM
I guess I never had a problem with half-orcs. I have a setting where there is war, there are captives, and there is sex. There might even be forbidden loves (Stockholm syndrome, for example). Humans, orcs, and elves are close enough to cross-breed. Hobgoblins and humans aren't.

Half-orcs are shunned by both cultures, but may be accepted in subcultures. Paladins may regard it as their duty to redeem them. The Favored of Luthic appreciate the talents that half-orcs bring to their shamanistic cult. Savage chiefs might deliberately breed half-orcs to serve as elite warriors and shamans. And what is a proper thieves guild without a big half-orc enforcer?

---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 PM ----------

As for deciding who gets to crossbreed, that's easy. The books have stats for half-orcs and half-elves, so humans, elves, and orcs get to crossbreed. The books don't have stats for half-hobgoblins or half-dwarves, so they don't.

Windstar
09-12-2010, 12:41 PM
No tar or feathers, but, with 1/2 orc raiders as well as any other race of raiders, rape/pillage/plunder, it happens. You may not like the race but I would think long and hard about doing away with them compl

tesral
09-12-2010, 12:51 PM
Did think long and hard, my reasons are not for all.

And that is another question; Hobgoblins? I suppose the half Hobgoblin could replace the half Orc. Any humanoid can breed with any other. Hobgoblins are far more likely to cross with Humans. They do not have a narrow people button. You will find other races in Hobgoblin camps treated as equal with the Hobgoblins because that is how they act. Hobgoblin is as Hobgoblin does.

DM_Running_Farland_3.5
09-12-2010, 06:11 PM
But nobody is answering the other question.

What is the balance reason for them? The mechanics of the game translating into balance. Why?

I am keeping them. But they are not "half orcs". Same stats (basically), very own race with its own unique identity.

tesral
09-12-2010, 08:16 PM
I don't think there is a "balance" issue. Is any given race truly necessary? You could replace all of them with something else.

fmitchell
09-13-2010, 07:40 AM
I don't think there is a "balance" issue. Is any given race truly necessary? You could replace all of them with something else.

With humans, for example. Half-orcs become a "barbarian" race distinguished by hair or skin color. (Blond and white, to avoid some unpleasant associations.) Elves become forest-dwelling primitives with elaborate customs, dwarfs become a rugged mountain folk heavily into mining, halflings become bucolic farmer-folk, and gnomes become a clan of crackpot inventors and obsessive collectors.

Goblins/hobgoblins/orcs become those awful dark people who kill our people, steal anything not nailed down, worship the wrong deities, bring down property values, and take our jobs.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
09-13-2010, 09:18 AM
Goblins/hobgoblins/orcs become those awful dark people who kill our people, steal anything not nailed down, worship the wrong deities, bring down property values, and take our jobs.

Isn't that what Goblins/hobgoblins/orcs say about humans?

tesral
09-13-2010, 09:33 AM
Goblins/hobgoblins/orcs become those awful dark people who kill our people, steal anything not nailed down, worship the wrong deities, bring down property values, and take our jobs.

Not to mention they eat all the pizza and drink all the beer.

And you can mix and match colors sizes and habits freely. That is exactly what I'm saying. There are certain fantasy tropes, in the case of D&D the half-orc has filled the role of the rough-edged barbarian. One could equal drop in a tribe of Humans, Elves, or Ewoks.

3016

yukonhorror
09-13-2010, 11:42 AM
Kind of skipped to end. To avoid the bad taste of half-orcs, I took from the 3.x version of ravenloft (think it was from there). They called them calibans (From the tempest), which were humans who were reformed in the womb by the horrors experienced by the mother. Although this made them tougher, their looks and speech patterns were affected as a result (sort of like down syndrome).

Utgardloki
09-14-2010, 01:21 AM
Did think long and hard, my reasons are not for all.

And that is another question; Hobgoblins? I suppose the half Hobgoblin could replace the half Orc. Any humanoid can breed with any other. Hobgoblins are far more likely to cross with Humans. They do not have a narrow people button. You will find other races in Hobgoblin camps treated as equal with the Hobgoblins because that is how they act. Hobgoblin is as Hobgoblin does.

I've been thinking about this for my own campaign. If hobgoblins and humans have an agreement not to kill the females of the other race, but instead to hold them captive until a ransom can be paid, then the females of both races will have opportunities to meet and get to know each other.

tesral
09-14-2010, 11:31 AM
One way to do it. In Thindacarulle Hobgoblins are the "Klingon" race of the setting. Violent, glorying in war, but honor bound and family oriented. To Orcs you are just animals to be exterminated. To Hobgoblins you are the worthy foe.

DMMike
09-15-2010, 03:51 PM
Tesral has me thinking - if half-elves aren't treated poorly, why can't half-orcs be respected (revered?) too? -2 to Intelligence isn't that big of a difference. Maybe people don't notice it, or chalk it up to appearance only, since half orcs are a bit hairier than humans? If H/Os are a minority, maybe they get the short end of the stick. If they're the majority, maybe they're holding the stick.

For the record, I like calling my half-orcs "hobgoblins." Solves the "half" problem pretty quick.

Crom on his Mountain
09-16-2010, 09:17 AM
Because orcs are violent marauding monsters and the vast majority of their half-breed offspring are the result of a brutal rape.

HaeshkaManju
09-16-2010, 09:31 AM
Because orcs are violent marauding monsters and the vast majority of their half-breed offspring are the result of a brutal rape.

To take this one step further. Yes.

The purpose of Half-Orcs is to allow for individuals to role-play an easily recognizable case of a character's background that began in violence. This lends itself to more rationale for why an individual may adventure. Too many character motivations begin and end with "I want to make lots of gold."

Sascha
09-16-2010, 11:51 AM
"Race with Barbarian as favored class" seems to be their raison d'Ítre, mechanically-speaking.


The purpose of Half-Orcs is to allow for individuals to role-play an easily recognizable case of a character's background that began in violence. This lends itself to more rationale for why an individual may adventure. Too many character motivations begin and end with "I want to make lots of gold."
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, as opposed to any other origins story. The isolation and/or alienation of a half-orc doesn't need to be due to rape; it's just as easily a case of loving parents and a cruel, unaccepting rest of society. Nor does it necessarily have to be restricted to half-orcs, or even half-breeds; having that one race be shorthand for "product of rape" can imply that other characters are the offspring of loving parents and accepting cultures.

Also, the 3E fluff changed to be less about raw brutality and more about the tenuous relations between fringe groups of humans and orcs, cycles of war and peace. This suggests that the rape angle isn't as prominent as assumed by prior editions, even in Greyhawk, 3E's assumed setting. It's almost reminiscent of a Montagues-Capulets situation, with the feuding families being the two races' settlements.

HaeshkaManju
09-16-2010, 01:17 PM
I like your rationale. I think i will roll with that.

tesral
09-16-2010, 02:01 PM
It is a good as any.

Crom on his Mountain
09-17-2010, 04:42 AM
The isolation and/or alienation of a half-orc doesn't need to be due to rape; it's just as easily a case of loving parents and a cruel, unaccepting rest of society. Nor does it necessarily have to be restricted to half-orcs, or even half-breeds; having that one race be shorthand for "product of rape" can imply that other characters are the offspring of loving parents and accepting cultures.

I don't get why this opinion is becoming so much more common, I blame political correctness. Lets be honest, take a look at a picture of an orc and really honestly ask yourself; how many people would willingly have sex with that? Saying they could just as easily come from loving parents who are together willingly is ridiculous, the vast majority would be cases of rape. Very violent rape at that. The resulting offspring would grow up as a reminder of that rape, not only to the mother but to everyone around him. Every person in his town will see the face of orc reavers who have burned their homes and murdered their loved ones, that is why half orcs are isolated.

tesral
09-17-2010, 10:46 AM
I prefer that more medieval view point but take it a step further in that Orcs look at Human women the same way you describe. You have to be a desperate pervert to hit that. Orcs like Orcs. they consider Orcs the perfect standard of beauty.. Dwarves prefer Dwarven women and are not secretly in love with Elves. Humans are the ultimate sluts. Each race is its own preference. There is no universal standard of beauty.

Stan Lee's Superhumans last night is the perfect example. The one biologist who has carved himself a place in a wolf pack and can defend it. He said you have to forget Human norms, forget clean hair, clean clothes, and showers. You have to be willing to lick wolves in the face and eat raw meat. But he is willing and can do it. He sat inh the middle of eight wild wolves with a 130 pound deer carcass and held his own for the food. But he was not behaving as a Human, it was all wolf.

Different races are going to have different standards of behavior, of beauty, even of what is right and moral. Those differing ideas are going to come into conflict. Even if those conflicts do not become violent they will separate by prejudice and custom.

I have several races on my world without a modest bone in their bodies. Avians, Centaurs, Fauns, Leomans, Tanuki, Sauroi do not as a culture wear clothing. Avians it disrupts their feathers, Leomans have a strong distaste for the idea. Fauns likewise. Centaurs it is matter of practicality as is it with Tanuki and Sauroi. The silliest thing in art IMHO is the Centaur dressed in the front with their sex organs flapping in the breeze. because they haven't a thing on from the transition down. It would be like you putting on a shirt and jacket, but not any underwear or pants. Dress them or don't please, don't go half way.

Non-Humans are not Humans with extra funny bits of anatomy. They are people with fundamentally different viewpoints and customs.

Sascha
09-17-2010, 10:52 AM
I don't get why this opinion is becoming so much more common, I blame political correctness. Lets be honest, take a look at a picture of an orc and really honestly ask yourself; how many people would willingly have sex with that? Saying they could just as easily come from loving parents who are together willingly is ridiculous, the vast majority would be cases of rape. Very violent rape at that. The resulting offspring would grow up as a reminder of that rape, not only to the mother but to everyone around him. Every person in his town will see the face of orc reavers who have burned their homes and murdered their loved ones, that is why half orcs are isolated.
Only if orcs are the most violent, brutal creatures around. Which works for you, and that's fine. But it's not how 3E presents them, in the context of the half-orc entry; sure, the number that are isn't insignificant, but it's not *all* of them. Nor is it a constant. The cycles of war allow for non-violent interactions between orcs and their neighbors. It doesn't eliminate the rape angle, but it's a far cry from the overwhelming explanation for a half-orc.

As to whether or not humans would willingly mate with orcs, well, our own world has plenty of preference variation, and all sorts of body types, shapes, sizes are considered attractive. Without adding other humanoid peoples into the mix (well, real ones, in any case; there's lots of non-human appeal, especially in fantasy and sci-fi). Humans living in a world with orcs *will* have a section of the population that finds orcs desirable. Standards of beauty (attractiveness, in this case) are culturally-bound, not empirically derived. Though there is evidence to suggest elements of beauty are hard-wired, like symmetry, I don't doubt there are orcs with symmetrical features, as well as folks who aren't put off by non-symmetry.

(Also, I'm glad they're moving away from the "brutal rape, front and center" bit with each iteration. It's a rather uncomfortable subject that doesn't have a place in each and every game, which would be implied if they included it in 3E/4E. But that's me. Obviously, tastes vary.)

Crom on his Mountain
09-17-2010, 01:25 PM
I prefer that more medieval view point but take it a step further in that Orcs look at Human women the same way you describe. You have to be a desperate pervert to hit that. Orcs like Orcs. they consider Orcs the perfect standard of beauty.. Dwarves prefer Dwarven women and are not secretly in love with Elves. Humans are the ultimate sluts. Each race is its own preference. There is no universal standard of beauty.

Stan Lee's Superhumans last night is the perfect example. The one biologist who has carved himself a place in a wolf pack and can defend it. He said you have to forget Human norms, forget clean hair, clean clothes, and showers. You have to be willing to lick wolves in the face and eat raw meat. But he is willing and can do it. He sat inh the middle of eight wild wolves with a 130 pound deer carcass and held his own for the food. But he was not behaving as a Human, it was all wolf.

Different races are going to have different standards of behavior, of beauty, even of what is right and moral. Those differing ideas are going to come into conflict. Even if those conflicts do not become violent they will separate by prejudice and custom.

I have several races on my world without a modest bone in their bodies. Avians, Centaurs, Fauns, Leomans, Tanuki, Sauroi do not as a culture wear clothing. Avians it disrupts their feathers, Leomans have a strong distaste for the idea. Fauns likewise. Centaurs it is matter of practicality as is it with Tanuki and Sauroi. The silliest thing in art IMHO is the Centaur dressed in the front with their sex organs flapping in the breeze. because they haven't a thing on from the transition down. It would be like you putting on a shirt and jacket, but not any underwear or pants. Dress them or don't please, don't go half way.

Non-Humans are not Humans with extra funny bits of anatomy. They are people with fundamentally different viewpoints and customs.

I see orcs as just not caring. Just as a dog will hump a table leg, an orc will hump anything with compatible body parts. They don't appreciate beauty in the same way humans do. Just as wolves behave completely differently than humans, so should demi-humans. I think it's time to get away from "humans in funny suits" syndrome.

alms66
09-17-2010, 06:59 PM
Ah, D&D...
Inspiring yet another conversation about when rape is or is not appropriate.
:D

tesral
09-18-2010, 12:54 AM
I see orcs as just not caring. Just as a dog will hump a table leg, an orc will hump anything with compatible body parts. They don't appreciate beauty in the same way humans do. Just as wolves behave completely differently than humans, so should demi-humans. I think it's time to get away from "humans in funny suits" syndrome.

I think I just said that. And demonstrated why I don't have half Orcs. YMMV. I don't expect that everyone should follow my reasoning on the matter, or do Elves the way I do Elves and so forth.

rurikjapa
09-18-2010, 02:43 AM
Hell, let's explore the "humans as ultimate sluts" theme. What if humans will bang anything that moves (not too far from it, head to a college frat party), and the half-breeds are the races with which a human ISN'T sterile. So in this instance, to flip things on their head, HUMANS are the horrific rapists. what's interesting is that you can cite real-world examples where one race of humans would force themselves on the women of another race in an attempt to breed out the "others"; I'm thinking Braveheart and the Doctrine of Prima Nocta, but there are other examples. If humans are the kind of creatures that will give smallpox-infected blankets to native american indians, will establish rape camps (Japanese in China in WWII), will engage in genocide (Inquisition to Rwanda) then I don't think you need to make some fictional race the big moral bad guys, I think we can manage it all by ourselves. the worst part isn't that humans can and do perform these terrible acts, it's that relatively normal people, who individually anyone would consider sane and reasonable can not only let themselves be led to these types of behavior but can actively participate in the twisted mentation required to internally justify heinous actions such as those described above.

Crom on his Mountain
09-18-2010, 04:54 AM
Humans do make good bad guys, most villains in my campaigns are human. But how many men would want to force an orcette to have sex?


I think I just said that. And demonstrated why I don't have half Orcs. YMMV. I don't expect that everyone should follow my reasoning on the matter, or do Elves the way I do Elves and so forth.

I wouldn't expect anyone to run non-humans the way I do. My elves hate humans, my gnomes are wandering scholars, my goblins aren't runty little bastards, and my ogres are noble savages who look nothing like standard ogres.

HowwwwL
09-18-2010, 11:16 AM
I've been drunk enough in bars where I could easily take home an orc female and not know the difference...