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Bromm
07-03-2010, 08:55 PM
I'm looking for players for a Pathfinder game. Running either Second Darkness, Curse of the Crimson Throne, or any of the other paths, if there's enough interest. Nothing formed as of yet, just testing the waters.

Looking for people on Saturdays, noon till 6, maybe starting earlier or later. We'll work things out.

As for what AP we'll play, I'm putting it to a vote:
1. Rise of the Runelords
2. Curse of the Crimson Throne
3. Second Darkness
4. Legacy of Fire
5. Council of Thieves
6. Kingmaker

looking forward to hearing from folks,
-Adam

Gavril
07-04-2010, 07:10 AM
I'd be interested in playing in just about any of the Adventure Paths except CotCT. I tend to agree with the major critisim of it, that the city is SO currupt that saving it seems really unnatural. :lol. I'd actually be partial to Kingmaker, as the first Pathfinder Path, it presumably has been balanced for all the changes from 3.5. Of the earlier Paths, I'd most enjoy RotRL and CoT also looks interesting.SD is far to much of a "succeed or destroy the world" for my taste and LoF didn't catch my interest.

I tend towards Sorcerers and Rangers for characters, although Clerics/Druids and Rogues are interesting too.

Hope this happens, it's been far too long sense I had a regular game.

rbaldri
07-04-2010, 08:51 AM
I'd be up for a Saturday game and tend to play whatever needs to be played.

Bromm
07-04-2010, 10:58 PM
CoCT immediately spoke to me, but I see what you mean Gavril. I'm not as partial to Kingmaker and I don't know why. I've just started looking at it truthfully. So, I'll edit the initial post to reflect a vote for what path people want to play in.

Saturday at noon(perhaps even earlier) seems to be what I'm shooting for now.

Gavril
07-09-2010, 05:47 PM
vote:
1. Rise of the Runelords

Have you heard from anyone else?

UltimaGabe
07-09-2010, 09:16 PM
Hello!

I just came across this board today, and was referred to this campaign by Gavril. I live in Smyrna, and would LOVE to be a part of this campaign, if you'll have me. The only Pathfinder AP I'm familiar with is the first half of Rise of the Runelords- I still had a Dungeon subscription when it ran out, so I got the first three (maybe four) issues of it, and although I only skimmed over it, I really liked the setting.

As of right now, I'm available every day after noon, and on weekends even before noon. Let me know what you think!

Bromm
07-10-2010, 09:58 AM
Gavril, I have not heard from anyone else, despite my efforts.

UltimaGabe, sure we'll have you! With rbaldri that makes 3. I just need one or two more and then we can make it official

So that's two votes for Rise of the Runelords. Seems like a good place to start.

Character generation parameters:
- 20 point stat-buy
- Core PFRPG classes for now
- No evil alignments, and tie yourself into Sandpoint in some way
- Any of the other pathfinder books are open for use.

UltimaGabe
07-13-2010, 12:53 PM
Quick question. When did you plan on starting? Were you hoping to meet this weekend, or did you want to wait until we had more people?

Gavril
07-13-2010, 03:13 PM
Hi guys. Since we know the point build now, I've started putting together a character idea. It's a Tiefling Ranger native to Sandpoint. A hunter/trapper, his first favored enemy is Animals and he will eventually probably cross-class to rogue for the trap spotter ability. He'll probably take the archer path as well.

Anyone else have some ideas in mind yet? I am also assuming we use "standard" starting gold?

Pax!

Bromm
07-13-2010, 11:17 PM
Gavril, yes standard gold. Did you want to use the alternate Tiefling traits presented in Pathfinder(30 i think?). The first issue of Council of Thieves has other random tables, much like the 2nd edition planescape for Tieflings.

UltimaGabe, It looks like I just have you and Gavril as players as I've not heard anything from rbaldri save the initial post. I think our first session will be the 24th, regardless of having 4 or not. I've created a group on yahoo, and will message you and Gavril with it's address so you can join.

Also, if needed, familiarize yourself with Sandpoint via the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide available for free from Paizo.com.

-Adam

Gavril
07-14-2010, 06:16 AM
Yep, I am using the alternate abilities. Asura-spawn. No Darkness but +2 INT. I'm working on background hooks in Sandpoint and equipment list now. I should have an initial sheet worked up to send on shortly.

I'm looking forward to the 24th. So do you have a location in mind yet?

UltimaGabe
07-14-2010, 11:40 AM
I'll start building my character today. I would also like to know the location- I have a close friend from a previous D&D group that would definitely be interested, but he lives in Columbia, so the distance may be too much for him (depending on where it is).

---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 AM ----------

Wow. I've never statted a 20-point character before, and it's looking... interesting. I don't know how long it's been since my highest stat, after racial adjustments, was a 16...

Anywho, I'm thinking about being a human bard. (Possibly female.) Just an idea for now, though- I haven't gotten around to reading up on Sandpoint, so I may change it if something sparks my interest.

Gavril
07-14-2010, 12:39 PM
Very cool. I'd love to see a Pathfinder Bard in action. The updates make the class look much more interesting. I would recommend the Keeper of the Old Ways trait from the Osirion sourcebook, adapted for Varisia. The two settings are so close this "regional" trait seems like a good fit in the North. :) Need to check with the GM though.

Bromm
07-14-2010, 10:13 PM
so the highest ability you purchases was 14? The stats start at 10 across the board. 20 points nets you 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 14. That nets you an 18 with racial mods. You can lower a stat to as low as 7 to get more points. If you don't have the pathfinder rpg book, check www.d20pfsrd.com (http://www.d20pfsrd.com) for the breakdown on points.

As for location, I live in Hermitage and was considering using my place to game. I don't have a good space for gaming though. I don't really want to game at The Game Keep in Hermitage. I'm open to suggestions, if anyone has them.

-Adam

UltimaGabe
07-15-2010, 09:11 AM
so the highest ability you purchases was 14? The stats start at 10 across the board. 20 points nets you 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 14. That nets you an 18 with racial mods. You can lower a stat to as low as 7 to get more points. If you don't have the pathfinder rpg book, check www.d20pfsrd.com (http://www.d20pfsrd.com) for the breakdown on points.

Ah, I didn't realize Pathfinder starts at 10 (it's been a long time since I've used any kind of point-buy). That would explain it. I guess I hadn't seen that page on the SRD.

I don't own any of the Pathfinder books, and have been purely using the SRD- so a lot of what you guys are mentioning (like pathfinder Tieflings and whatnot) are all completely foreign to me. Could someone give me a list of what books are allowed? I could probably find a .pdf version of them if I had the names.

And, yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm liking this character concept of mine. I'm thinking a female human bard, possibly a writer (or an aspiring writer) for the Pathfinder Chronicles. I've got some more little twists in her backstory, but I'll save that for later.

Also, I'm not sure where everybody's coming from, but I live in Smyrna, and if need be I'd be happy to host the game at my apartment.

Bromm
07-15-2010, 10:00 AM
The books that are available are any that Paizo has made for Pathfinder, however a lot of them won't apply. For instance the books for Osirion, Qadira, (Egypt/middle-east countries) won't have as much relavence to the country that you guys are starting in. The ones I would recommend would be the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game book, and The Player's Guide to Rise of the Runelords.

Check out the Pathfinder wiki at http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
It has a wealth of info. Search for information on Varisia, Sandpoint, Magnimar. I'll try to post a more comprehensive list of books allowed, as well as info pertaining to the area for you on the yahoo group, which you should join.

As far as location goes Gavril looks to be coming from Antioch, and Smyrna isn't far for me.

Gavril
07-15-2010, 04:37 PM
I have some Pathfinder subscriptions and can try to upload some of the pdfs to the Yahoo site for us to use. I'm not sure in the Core book will be too big or not, but the race source books shouldn't be a problem. I'm a big fan on Paizo for continuing 3.X, so if you like the stuff, PLEASE buy a copy. lol.

The tiefling rules are in AP 25, so I'll try to put that out too.

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------

Yep, I'm in Antioch/Cane Ridge, which is that sliver between I24 and Brentwood. We could probably meet here too...I don't think the wife would object and if she saw some games maybe I could finally get her interested. lol.

Wow, everything is big. I am trying to get the Chapter by Chapter pdfs and see if I can at least get 1) Sandpoint, 2) Tiefling Alts and 3) Character Creation uploaded. We'll see...

1 and 2 are loaded. 3 is running into problems due to the 5M limit. I am strying to resave the relivant files as txt and will try to upload shortly.

Bromm
07-15-2010, 09:05 PM
I would REALLY prefer that we not upload any kind of Paizo pdfs. I work at a job that enforces copyright law. If I tell others I can't copy something without permission, this isn't any different. UltimaGabe can either buy the book/pdf, use the SRD or ask myself/anyone else. I don't mean to freak out about this, but I don't think just posting pdfs of books is the right way to go.

Gabe, if you want to email me at ABennett 1 9 8 3 at yahoo DOT com and I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you have.

-Adam

Gavril
07-16-2010, 11:46 AM
Fair enough. I wouldn't upload whole books (to open forums) but view small group sharing as no different than shareing face to face, but I can understand your concerns. Interstingly enough, most of the Core Book is open content anyway, with the little blurbs at the beginning of chapters and pictures being pretty much the only things designated closed content.

I think I may contact Piazo and see what thier position on groups sharing content is. :)

Bromm
07-16-2010, 03:34 PM
At the bottom of the first page of the PDFs(inside the cover) it lists what is and is not open content under Open Content and Product Identity. Proper names, storylines, maps, locations, characters, artwork are all part of Product identity.

I don't mean to be an asshole about all of this but I've just dealt with this a lot. So perhaps I'm a tad gunshy about it. Not that Paizo is a fiend, and out to mercilessly prosecute anyone for any infringement. However, I wouldn't want to test them. I know that you're intentions were just to present the information. I hope this situation does not put a rift into a good game before anything starts as I'm sure all of us are looking forward to it.

Gabe, would your friend be able to play if we used your apartment?

Gavril
07-16-2010, 04:44 PM
No rift at all. I actually did write Paizo to ask them what they considered appropriate use, mustly just to satify my own curiosity. They own the Product Identity stuff, so I would assume they can make any calls they want to. :)

So we may have a 3rd player? Woo Hoo!

meggamann41
07-16-2010, 08:31 PM
I'm down, just hit me up.

rbaldri
07-18-2010, 02:02 PM
So, with a Ranger and a Bard, I'd thought to go with a half-elf druid. I'm still working on the back story, but thinking he started out as a novice at the local chapel. When it burned down, he fled into the local forest where he explored a natural connection with divinity found in all living things, in nature.

UltimaGabe
07-20-2010, 08:30 PM
Hey, guys, I'm sorry to have to do this, but I'm going to need to back out. I was just laid off from my job, and I'm going to need to devote all of my free time to finding a new one, or, if that's not an option, possibly relocating. I'll let you know if anything changes, but I just can't start a game up with things the way they are.

Once again, sorry, guys.

Bromm
07-20-2010, 10:48 PM
Wow, that sucks Gabe. Good luck with the job search, and hopefully you can join us soon enough. I understand, real life comes first.

So as for the rest of us, what do we want to do? Start Saturday the 24th as I planned with just the two characters? Hold off till we can find more? The problem is that a ranger and a druid, do not a full party make...

-Adam

Gavril
07-21-2010, 06:30 AM
Sorry to hear that Gabe. I got laid off back in Feb, its a tough market to be in. :( Good luck!

Adam, I'd have to agree that 2 characters just isn't sufficient. Burnt Offerings and Skinshaw can be run with 3, I think, but by Hook Mountain, a 4th is really needed (although a couple good Cohorts could fill that role). My thought would be to post another thread looking for 1-2 players for Rise and take a week or 2 to try to find people. If that doesn't work, we can always think about running multiple characters, though I'd prefer avoiding that a if possible...

I'm game whatever you're up for.

-- John

Bromm
07-21-2010, 12:12 PM
Okay, let's hold off on starting up the game, and I'll post another thread looking for additional folks. I'm gonna shoot for the 7th, to give us two weeks, for the game. If we haven't found anyone, I'll have you guys run an additional character or make cohorts or something. We'll figure it out.

-Adam

Bromm
07-24-2010, 10:11 PM
I know it's been just a few days since I posted the other game, however, it's gotten 50+ views and no replies. So, just throwing out some options for consideration:

-Playing multiple characters
- Playing Gestalt characters(as was introduced in 3.5 via Unearthed Arcana. You choose two classes and get the benefit of both, the better attack bonus, save progressions, etc.)

rbaldri
07-29-2010, 12:21 PM
Either would be fine with me. Gestalt is easier to roleplay. Two characters will keep things power even (if that makes sense).

Alternatively, we could just start a few level higher. Two third level characters should be able to handle what 3 first level characters would.

Gavril
07-30-2010, 10:02 AM
While Pathfinder has done a lot to fix the grappling problems...I'd still vote for more characters rather than more powerful characters.

Bromm
08-02-2010, 11:06 PM
Well it seems that there have been NO responses to the other thread. So it seems that the best idea may be having you guys play two characters each. You don't have to play a second character, as I won't force that on you. So if you want, roll one up.

Gavril
08-03-2010, 10:55 AM
Having lost our bard and having no arcane magic, I am looking at a half-jann (Qadira Sourcebook) monk/bard at this point (think battle dancer). Should have a initial character sheet uploaded tonight.

Also, the Advanced Players Guide now has Sandpoint Traits available. Well worth the look!

Bromm
08-04-2010, 08:56 AM
Hmm I think I'd prefer to reel in some of the books that I originally allowed. I'm cool with the Tiefling, but would prefer no half-Jann. With this being the first time I'll DM this group, we probably need to start with basics. Like I said, Tielfing is fine. However the books I think we should stick to would be:
Core Rulebook
Advanced Player's Guide
Player's Guide to Rise of the Runelords

Should we progress on to greater and greater things, we'll examine what's permissable.

If you're playing multiple characters they will only be one class. That is of course unless you multiclass. Gestalt was only going to be used if we decided to keep it at just one charcter per person.

Also, we need to decide where we are gaming...

rbaldri
08-05-2010, 01:48 PM
1) Location. My place is too small, but I know the Game Keep will be open. Or, if someone had a strong preference for their abode that would be fine.

2) If your going Striker & Spell Caster, that leaves me with the Tank & The Talent. Works for me. I guess I'll actually have to sit down and roll everything up now.

Gavril
08-05-2010, 08:33 PM
OK, I have pdf's up on http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Nashville_Pathfinder/ for my Ranger and Sorcerer. I've modified the Ranger to reflect the Urban Ranger and Talents from the Advanced Players Guide. Both are Tieflings, but the talents and history should keep them quite distinct and have some built in tension to help me keep them distinct in my own head. The Sorcerer is very "gear light" to start, but given his background he wouldn't own a lot of equipment for running around outside town until that comes up.

These characters both overlap talent a bit, the Ranger being a trap guy and the Sorcerer a bit of a thug. You may want to look at the sheets to see how/wher talent fits with either/both. Obviously a Rogue can better than either in the specialties, but especially at low levels picks may want to be a little less unorthodox to broaden our options. I've also been assuming you'd handle the divine magic, whether druid or cleric. I can't hanlde the healing! :)

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

On Locations:

I know that the Antioch Library has a room that can be reserved and I can check on the Edmonton Pike branch as well tomorrow. Do we have a time in mind?

Bromm
08-06-2010, 12:21 AM
12-6 was what I was shooting for. Go ahead and ask around at those libraries. The one in Hermitage is available to be rented for 5$ an hour or 10$ per meeting. I'd prefer to just game at home, if we have to pay. Don't get me wrong, I understand them providing a room for a fee, but still... I'd like to avoid the Game Keep. I've gamed there enough. I think I've been spoiled on gaming at the house's of players/GMs of the group.

Gavril
08-07-2010, 08:46 AM
Hi, all. Unfortunately I have had some personal issues come up and won't be free this afternoon. I am hoping this doesn't cause any problems, given we didn't have a location set yet anyway. I WILL be available next week....I am more than ready to get started.

The l;ibrary was closed yesterday, so I wasn't able to check on a room. I will take care of that...probably tomorrow...

Also, I am trying to get Skype up and running on my linux box. Do either of you have accounts?

smithlrs2003
08-10-2010, 09:36 AM
Hello,

I was contacted by Gavril regarding the game you all are trying to set up. I'd be very interested, but I could probably only play every other week (I'm married with a very young baby and work long hours, so not a ton of free time). Gavril recommended that I just post here and let you guys sort out whether you would be willing to take on a player who can't commit to a weekly session.

Assuming that is OK, have you figured out when and where you are going to play? Also, what holes do you need to be filled in the party? I often play clerics or paladins; in 4.0 speak i am usually a defender or leader. I am of course open to playing other roles as well to fill a hole in the party -- mostly what I want to do is get into a game.

Bromm
08-10-2010, 01:23 PM
Welcome aboard,

Currently we have two players playing two characters each, to keep with the 4 person party = gold dynamic. If I can find more people, then I'd like to take it back down to 1 per person. A ranger and Sorcerer are confirmed. A druid has been mentioned, and am uncertain about the other. We need a healer, and a tank in MMO speak. Play whatever you're most comfortable with. Books available are the Pathfinder Core book, Advanced Player's Guide, and the Player's Guide to Rise of the Runelords(the last one being free from Paizo.com). Use a 20 pointbuy for stats. Information about their point system can be found at http://www.d20pfsrd.com/

I've been thinking about play schedule, and might prefer us to change to every other week, but we could increase the time that we play(like from 9-6, accommodations permitting?). I work Sunday-Thursday and so am off one day a week that family is working. Moving to a bi-weekly schedule would give me time to hang out with family more, than a weekly thing. Just a point of discussion.

Gavril
08-10-2010, 03:55 PM
I'd be fine with going bi-weekly, especially if that gives us another player!

Bromm
08-11-2010, 10:22 AM
Depending on the branch, the libraries around Nashville may not be the best idea. I'm reading over the Hermitage Library's list of rules and application now.

Gavril, you mentioned about gaming at your place? Not that I'm trying to invite us over, but is that option still on the table? I could also hold the game at my place, that way one person isn't stuck with having their household routine being messed up all the time. What say you guys?

Gavril
08-11-2010, 12:32 PM
My wife says she's still ok with us being here. Every other week would actually make things a lot easier on that front. Do we want to try to start Saturday? Also, please keep in mind, I am, and have been, out of work for a while, so please bring your own munchies!

Bromm
08-11-2010, 08:48 PM
Like I said, we'll switch out each game, so that no one house has to have their schedule disrupted too often. So it's set, Saturday at Gavril's home. Is 9-6 alright? I would understand if we gamed less with it being the first few sessions. Making sure we all jive together, etc.

Gavril
08-11-2010, 09:16 PM
Anything before 10:00 would not be condusive to continued good health. My wife is entirely too good a shot. :) However 10:00 till will be fine.

rbaldri and smithlrs, you guys need to get registered on the Yahoo Group...I'll use the mailgroup there to send out the address. :) You alos need to get your character(s) finalized and uploaded so we can see what, if any, backstory links we need to work out.

Looking forward to it!

smithlrs2003
08-12-2010, 09:26 PM
Hi guys, sorry to throw a wrench in the plans, but I won't be Able to start until next week; I have a longstanding previous committment this sat. In the future I could do more of a 4-5 hour session, but probably not 9-6 except every once in a while.

That said, I am looking forward to playing and have come up with a half-elven cleric of sarenrae who will be a strong healer and have a sideline of melée fighter. I will post him on the group shortly.

I have a few questions re character creation... Can you verify the following:

1. We are starting at first level?
2. We roll starting gold, or do we use the average or the max?
3. Two traits?
4. Max hp at first level?
5. How do skills work? Is it plus 3 to all class skills, plus ability mod and any ranks?

Gavril
08-13-2010, 06:31 AM
1. We are starting at first level? YES
2. We roll starting gold, or do we use the average or the max? AVERAGE
3. Two traits? YES
4. Max hp at first level? YES
5. How do skills work? Is it plus 3 to all class skills, plus ability mod and any ranks? YES (PLUS ANY FEAT/TRAIT RANKS TOO)

Glad to hear we have a healer now. What domains do you have in mind? Do you have access to the Advanced Player's Guide? The Outlander/Missionary Trait might be a good one for Sandpoint..

smithlrs2003
08-13-2010, 08:40 AM
Thanks. I do not have access to that resource -- I have been making a character based in the info on the pathfinder srd page that was linked in this thread. Can you tell me more about that trait (PM is fine if it is copyrighted material)?

I was considering the Birthmark and Heirloom Weapon traits listed on that site. Are those legal in this campaign?

The domains I am probably going to take are Fire and Healing; I may take Sun instead of one of those (sarenrae also has good and I think glory, which don't interest me much). I am happy to hear any input you have on the choices.

The concept for my character revolves around being a redeemed past wrongdoer (one of Sarenrae's focuses) who is the bastard son of a wealthy household. I am currently trying to come up with an interesting link from that background into Sandpoint. I am thinking perhaps my father was a wandering elf adventurer (possibly a thief) who seduced my mother as a young woman and then disappeared, leaving behind only a beautiful old sword (my heirloom weapon, an elven curve blade). Perhaps, having been redeemed, I am now searching for my father and followed his rather cold trail to Sandpoint. What do you think?

The build is a half-elf with high Wisdom (17), Charisma (14) and Dex (16) with STR and CON 10 and INT 8. Feats: Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus: Perception (bonus feat). Weapons would be an elven curve blade (proficient with only this blade from heirloom weapon), plus a dagger and a sling.

What do you think of this concept?

Bromm
08-13-2010, 09:23 AM
The Healing Domain is great for healers, especially with the 6th level ability. The concept works too.

I've not heard from rbaldri in some time...

Do we want to wait till we have all our players for next week, or start this week? I hate to keep pushing things back though. It could be for the best. Not having a healer will change fights a lot. After the cleric joins the party, when Smithlrs2003 has to leave I could take over his character. Roleplaying wouldn't be done much by me under that guise, but that way the group could still use his healing.

smithlrs2003
08-13-2010, 10:31 AM
I am completely fine with that approach and have no problems with you all playing my character after I have to leave.

Can you give me some info on that trait? judging from the two characters on the yahoo site, the Sandpoint traits have a lot of flavor and could be fun to use instead of birthmark -- which I mainly took for the utility of always having a divine focus rather than for flavor.

Gavril
08-13-2010, 11:35 AM
I'd personally rather wait and have everyone there for the first game. That tends to set a lot of tone and covering each others characters after that is a lot easier. I'll send a private mail on the trait.

I like the concept and the Domains sound great, I would have picked Healing and Fire myself. The only thing I might think twice about is the heirloom weapon. Clerics tend to be even more associated with their patron's preferred weapon in Pathfinder, so I'd tend to go with the scimitar, but that's just flavor. Overall it looks like a great add!

---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

Given the background the Wealthy (+900 gp) trait might work well too.

munchiemadness
08-14-2010, 09:58 AM
Do yall still need another person? I could make a character.

Bromm
08-14-2010, 10:15 AM
we could use another player. In looking at your profile, I couldn't figure out where you're from.

munchiemadness
08-14-2010, 10:35 AM
Texas, is it an online game or a local game? If its online I would play.

Gavril
08-14-2010, 12:56 PM
Its FTF. Sorry.

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 PM ----------

I am making a change to one of the characters I have submitted. I have retooled the Ranger as a halfling and uploaded a new file to the group. I like the backstory flavor better and it eleminates having 2 tieflings. Hope this isn't a problem...

rbaldri
08-14-2010, 02:52 PM
Sorry, I've been sick and not checking emails.

Okay,

1) so we are starting when and where?

2) I've not seen the yahoo group invite. Would you mind resending it please?

3) If we now have three players, do we still need 2 characters each?

Sorry to be so lame about the late reply.

Gavril
08-14-2010, 05:06 PM
rbaldi,

Sorry to hear you have been sick and glad you're feeling well enough to check emails now! Here's my take on your questions.

1) I think we are starting next weekend at my house. Once everyone regisiters with the Group, I will send out the address using the mailing list there.

2) http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Nashville_Pathfinder/

3) I would say you don't need to run a second character if you don't want too. Right now we have an Urban Ranger (2ndary Fighter, traps), a Cleric of Sarenrae (healer, 2ndary fighter) and a Sorcerer (arcanist). 1 more character should round out the "magic 4", and we look weakest in terms of a tank and a face. A cavalier, if you are so inclined, could really round things out, but really anyone with a decent Charisma to act as diplomat/leader would work. (Just my $.02)

Looking forward to next weekend!

smithlrs2003
08-14-2010, 05:19 PM
FYI, my character has a 14 charisma and diplomacy as a class skill, I can be a decent face ( though not awesome).

Bromm
08-14-2010, 06:56 PM
I have another player who'll join us. He's messaged me, and I've sent him an email about the yahoo group and the game. I think with adding him to the mix, we'll be at 4 people. I may add a fifth, given Smithlrs2003's availability. This is not meant as a slight, towards you, just a consideration. In reference to rbaldri's question of playing two characters, it seems we could go back to just one per player. I hate to sound wishy-washy about all this, but stuff keeps changing.

Gavril
08-14-2010, 08:55 PM
Cool! Great to hear we may have a 4th. I'll stick with the sorcerer if we do. It's a heck of a lot easier to play 1 character anyway. I just want to be sure we get the bases covered. :)

Bromm
08-14-2010, 09:16 PM
Cleric, Druid, and a Sorcerer. We'd be in need of a Skill user/Meat shield. The Cleric is a good secondary fighter, but wouldn't last as long compared to a straight up Fighter or other heavy melee.

FullFathom5
08-15-2010, 01:33 AM
Hello there! So, I'm the fourth of this group, and really quite new to gaming; I've only had a bit of experience thus far.

I was actually looking into trying a bard (the only other character I've ever played was a rogue, so it seemed similar, yet different enough to get a feel for something else). I was picturing him as the sort who focused on crowd control (netting folks, tripping them, disarming them, and then with a few spells as backup), but it sounds like that would still leave us without a real fighter of any sort. And I imagine it's not helpful to be able to keep the enemy disrupted and bothered if there's no one to actually soak up damage and dish it out as well.

So... do you think I should look at making a Fighter instead?

Gavril
08-15-2010, 06:24 AM
Hi, FullFathom, welcome to the group!

If you want to try a bard, which I think would be an excellent addition to the group, go ahead and do that. I'll let you take the arcane magic roll and move back into my original Ranger idea. That will cover the fighter area and give a trap finder, so we should have all the bases covered.

smithlrs2003
08-15-2010, 09:42 AM
Hi guys,

Given the greater emphasis on the preferrred weapons for Pathfinder clerics that Gavril mentioned, and given the need of the party for a more tanklike character, I have rejiggered my character a bit (subject to DM approval, of course). Everything is the sam except I have decided to go with being a human rather than a half-elf (father now a human rogue rather than elven) and my heirloom weapon is a scimitar. Instead of Weapon Finesse I am going to take Toughness (to be more tanky) and Selective Channelling. Instead of STR 10, DEX 16, going with STR 14, Dex 14. I am going to be sword and board rather than a two-handed weaoon user. I still won't be a real tank, but I will be more durable than the other Finesse-based build and have more options down the road in terms of combat feats. My background will stay the same; I am considering replacing the birthmark trait with something else, but haven't made up my mind on that.

rbaldri
08-16-2010, 07:23 PM
Tell you what, I'll be Paladin instead of a druid. That will give us a tank.

Smtthrs: Cleric
Fullfathm: Bard
Gavril: Urban Ranger
rbaldri: Paladin

Smtthrs, may I suggest making sure summon monster is in your memorized list. That will give us extra meat for the grinder.

Gavril
08-16-2010, 07:46 PM
That looks like a good mix to me!

FullFathom5
08-16-2010, 08:03 PM
So, here's what my thoughts have become on the bard.. I'd like to ask everyone's opinion, since I'm really a newbie at this, and I don't know if I'm wasting a character slot with this.

I'd be taking a few levels of fighter mixed with bard at very low levels.. it won't increase my damage much (since I'll be using a whip), but it gives me a lot of feats early, and a little bit more in the way of HP and Fort saves.

My feats/traits would look something like:

1. Skill Focus: Perform (Half-Elf racial feat)
Weapon Focus: Whip

2. Dazzling Display: Whip

3. Weapon Finesse: Whip

4. Net proficiency

5. Agile Maneuvers

6. Combat Expertise

7. Improved Trip

9. Extra Traits: Serpent Lash (can trip two different enemies in a round)/Magical Knack (+2 to caster level (I assume this makes my spells harder to resist?)

And from there on out, choosing between: Defensive Combat Training, Greater Trip, Improved Disarm, Greater Disarm, anything else you might suggest.

Basically, I see his role as being all bark and little bite. Leaping onto the field, cracking his whip, causing enemies to be shaken with Dazzling Display, ensnaring one or two with nets, tripping others, inspiring confidence buff for the party, casting backup spells (from the few he has), using wands with the Use Magic Device skill, attacking with his whip when other options are less useful.

Does that sound like a useful role? Since I haven't played much, I really don't know if that would cause chaos for a group of enemies, or if they'd just laugh and say, "Why didn't you get a bard with a sword instead?"

Gavril
08-16-2010, 09:27 PM
Given how opinionated I've been anyway....

Personally, I would tend to go more the bard with a sword route, in large part because a primary weapon that doesn't effect anyone with any armor or a +3 natural AC bonus is just crippling and the special effects for trips and the like will be badly nerfed by the large number of giants and abominations after the first adventure.

If I really wanted to do something along these lines, I would probably go more with the bladed scarf, that lets you do most of the whip-like things but does 1d6 real damage. I've tended to find that working with nets is fairly pointless in any campaign that isn't essentially "urban" in nature....there is just no point in trying to capture goblins, giants, lamia etc. It's not like you can lock them up and see them reformed! :lol It also gets sticky with a Paladin in the group who would likely object to my running around administering the coupe. :)

I'd make the SF: Perform into Dance, which can be complementary to Acrobatics and build up a VERY finesse oriented fighter: Exotic Weapon Proficency: Bladed Scarf, Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm. I'd probably still make sure to carry darts and a shortsword for backup and be looking to Wands, etc for a heavier punch. For skills Acrobatics, Perform (Dance and some vocal), Sense Motive and Use Magic Device would stay maxed out with Bluff, Slight of Hand, and Stealth as secondary skills and a few Knowledges and Spellcraft as I could.

I'd also consider building a Monk/Bard as opposed to a fighter/bard for this, as the enhanced unarmed attacks seem very in keeping with the concept. I could see an argument for getting the bladed scarf added to the list of monk weapons, although that would be a house rule option.

That's my $0.02 anyway. Probably best to ignore it. lol.

smithlrs2003
08-16-2010, 10:35 PM
You could use a scorpion whip, I think, since you can use a whip. That would at least allow you to do damage. I do think ulyou would also want a sword, as up close you will be getting shredded by opportunity attacks with a whip, and you will need to be somewhat close to melée. I would use a rapier since you will have finesse. I would also advise against the net, because by the time you can use it my guess is your oponents will burst it, unless there are cool magical whips.

You could probably achieve the same goals through taking spells like sleep and hideous laughter and daze that take opponents out of combat.

I would probably avoid multiclassing too much, unless you go into another caster level, you are probably better off with more spells than with the additional feats fighter would give you. Plus the bard abilities you get later on are really cool.

FullFathom5
08-16-2010, 11:19 PM
Ah, thank you both!

I didn't realize that it would be easy for opponents to burst through a net. I was just imagining that an entangled monster would be easier to plunk full of arrows, or to slash with a sword, and I could use it over and over again rather than running out of spells, or having them be resisted. So, very good to know.

And yes, I was thinking of the scorpion whip, and mainly the ability to trip lots of things. By level 9, I would have had Serpent Lash, allowing me to trip two opponents within range (15 feet of me, right?), on a single turn. Likewise, I didn't know if demoralizing groups of enemies with Dazzling Display weakened them enough to make a significant difference in turning a fight.

And I was going to miss out on some by multi-classing for 4 levels of fighter, which might make me less effective overall. So then, straight-up bard it is, in which case, yeah, I was thinking rapier looked like it would be my best choice. Although.. that bladed scarf would be a pretty dashing way to slice a goblin!

rbaldri
08-17-2010, 08:45 AM
From prior experience, I can tell you that swiss knife characters usually don't fair that well, especially gishes, especially in pathfinder only. You really want to focus on a particular role to be effective. This is why Bards are usually the fifth Beatle; they can do a little bit of everything, but usually a master of none.

If you want to be a tripper/locker, focus on a monk build, maybe with a few levels of fighter. This guy can cause some real ulcers to the BBEG and his minions.

If you want to be a battlefield controller, wizard or sorcerer with a focus on conjuration will serve you and us much better.

If you like the lithe elf/finesse concept, may I suggest a fey bloodline sorcerer. And, maybe you can use the battle sorcerer variant, which isn't exactly core, but is balanced: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/ogreslab/battle-sorcerer. This was a standard variant in 3.5. You have to choose your spells carefully, but it is very doable.

smithlrs2003
08-17-2010, 11:17 AM
I agree that you should probably focus on what you want your character to be, and then pick the class that suits it -- your current build focusing on combat tricks sounds like it could be done better with a monk or a fighter, since spell-casting doesn't sound like your focus. Rbaldri's suggestions are good, if you want to go in one of those directions.

That said, if what you really like about the character is the performance aspect, then bard is the best class for you. As a bard, you will be a great face and skill user and a good buffer/debuffer, but probably never as good at combat tricks as a fighter or monk, because it takes too many feats. You could be really good, though, at things like dazzling display (which is a pretty good debuff if you have high intimidate and charisma) that have good synergy with your bard abilities.

Personally, I think you should play the character that sounds most fun to you, keeping in mind though that it is no fun to be inneffective, and that fun probably requires you to be somewhat effective -- it is only fun to specialize in tripping, for example, if you can consistently pull it off.

FullFathom5
08-18-2010, 11:51 PM
So, one question I have is, would you guys mind giving me your opinions on the importance of various skills? And mark if they are helpful if I only have, say, a +5 modifier to them. Or if they're only helpful once I have higher levels in them (and how high?).

Knowledge Local
Acrobatics
Stealth
Spellcraft
Use Magic Device
Appraise
Climb
Swim
Handle Animal
Ride
Escape Artist
Survival
Sleight of Hand

These aren't a list of skills that are on the "top of my list".. well, a couple may be. I'm just trying to get a feel for how beneficial it would be to have, say, a +5 modifier to my Appraise rolls, for example.

Or, say I eventually want to be stealthy. At low levels, does putting a bit into stealth help? Or will stealth only work when I can have something like a +10 or +15 on my Stealth checks?

Gavril
08-19-2010, 09:16 AM
To an extent, the question is moot at 1st level. You can only put 1 point into any skill, so you just pick the appropriate number of skills based on class and that's that. Any class skill selected will have a roll of 4+(Ability Modifier)+(Trait/Feat Mods)+(Race Mods).

Beyond that, skills generally fall in to broad classes, fixed DC skills and opposed skills. In both cases, every little bit helps. Fixed DC checks typically start paying off by the time you have 3-5 ranks in them, at least statistically, as the DCs tend to be in the 15-20 range. As class skills have 4 ranks as soon as you spend 1 point, that makes these useful right away. Opposed checks are similarly useful almost immediately. 1 point is Stealth counteracts 1 point in Perception, and vice versa. Acrobatics straddles the line, with both fixed DCs for doing tasks and checks opposed by CMD (where 1 rank counters a +1 base attack mod).

My general approach is to make sure to pick any "trained only" skills I want first, as I can't make a roll at all unless I put at least 1 point there. Swim is a good example....I don't care if I am a good swimmer, but I sure want to be able to roll to get out of the river if I fall in! Similarly, if I want at least a chance to get the wand to fire, I need a rank in Use Magic Device and all Knowledge skills can only be used trained. Beyond that, I just try to keep the "class necessary" skills maxed and then add where I can concept skills.

Not sure if this helps....

rbaldri
08-19-2010, 10:58 AM
Gavril answered the theory question really well. Let me just add that you want to take a look at what skills other people are likely to cover so as not to reduplicate the effort. Also take a look at the skills you are likely to use the most in your role.

Paladin: Ride, Sense Motive, Diplomacy (I haven’t decided where to place my other big skill point).

At some point early on, I would definitely put 1 or 2 skill points in Climb depending on your strength modifier. Until we can through around fly spells or summon flying creatures, being able to pull off a 15 climb check can be very useful. A 5 (plus taking 10 on the check) is what you might want to go for. (1spt, 3pt class bonus, 2pt specialized equipment).

Also, remember, at 2nd level Versatile Performance kicks in for you. That’s like getting two additional skills maxed out for free, assuming you maxed the relevant performance.

Because you are the arcana guy, you should put points in spellcraft. I would also suggest putting at least 3 skill pts in acrobatics since it nets the nice squishy spellcaster a defense bonus when fighting defnsively. But, that’s my two cents.

FullFathom5
08-19-2010, 11:22 AM
Thank you very much for the insight. I'm trying to plot out how my character will progress over time (subject to change as I get higher, of course, but in the hopes that it will give me a general plan to follow), and I think my biggest question has to do with, which abilities I want to put points into early on, even if just one to "activate" it.

My main foci (skills at level) will be: Acrobatics, Perception, Stealth, Oratory (Diplomacy, Sense Motive).

Then I was thinking of keeping a few up to medium levels: Act (Bluff, Disguise), Knowledges (Local, History, Nature, Arcana), Spellcraft. (Maybe Use Magical Device too, but it looks like making a wand fire takes a 20, and it certainly seems inefficient to try to use a wand until I can be almost sure it's going to fire, otherwise, bad effects or a wasted round.)

Early on, I want to "activate" Climb and Swim, but then, my really big questions kick in.

Do I want to be able to Appraise? If so, at what point will I want to put skill points in it, and how many?

Do I want to "activate" Handle Animal, Ride, Escape Artist, Survival, Sleight of Hand, and the remaining Knowledges? If so, how early do I need to do that?

Any suggestions?

Gavril
08-19-2010, 12:18 PM
Appraise wouldn't be a bad thing to have, as it would help out a good bit with barter in all its forms and Slight of Hand is good for a bard in general. I wouldn't worry too much with Survival. Ride is only really needed if you intend to be riding in combat. Non-combat riding can be done without a check and your DEX will be good enough more most simple checks anyway. Extra knowledge skills can be good in specific circumstances but that's as much a question of flavor as anything else. I wouldn't bother with Handle Animal as a bard, it's just not class-centric enough.

smithlrs2003
08-19-2010, 02:13 PM
Don't forget that you can use most skills untrained, including appraise, swim, escape artist, ride, survival, and swim. Thus you don't have to "activate" these skills with a rank to use them -- the downside is just that you only get your ability/feat/trait bonus, but you don't get your class skill bonus. "activating" is only necessary for skills that cannot be used untrained such as all the knowledge skills, spellcraft, sleight of hand, disable device, and handle animal.

As far as usefulness goes, I'd say use magic device is more useful than you are envisioning even with only one rank -- as a bard it is a class skill, so you will get 1(rank)+3(class)+(your charisma bonus, which is probably at least +2). Even if you fail, the only consequence for most actions is that you waste your action.

Spellcraft is often useful; sleight of hand can be useful, as does disable device (although I bet our ranger is all over that particular skill). Whether the knowledge skills are useful depends on the DM and/or the adventure.

I also don't think you need to worry about handle animal, survival, or ride. I also haven't found appraise to be that useful, although it does help if you decide to sell a magic item rather than keep it.

Overall, many of the skills are more for character flavor than strict utility -- all are situationally useful, but I'd figure out what your character concept goes with. As a bard, I'd think knowledge skills like arcana, history, nobility, and local would make role-playing sense, but really depends on your vision of the character.

FullFathom5
08-19-2010, 04:49 PM
What are the practical situations in which it will be good to have spellcraft? I've read what it does, but I didn't realize I'd be doing much of that (identifying spells being cast at me, identifying spells on scrolls, etc).

Gavril
08-19-2010, 04:57 PM
As our arcanist, I'd expect you to use this quite a bit. It's not just identifying spells on scrolls, it's id'ing all the magic we come across. It's also used in crafting magic items, so if you eventually want or need to Scribe Scroll or Brew Potion, it's used there too. It's also a reasonable synergy skill with Use Magic Device, and as you noticed something that can bump that up never hurts.

FullFathom5
08-19-2010, 05:09 PM
Ooh, interesting! How does the synergy thing work? I haven't found a reference to it yet.

Gavril
08-19-2010, 08:48 PM
Oops, my bad. Synergies were apparently removed in Pathfinder. It's a change from 3.5 I hadn't realized. The skill enhancement feats now give extra umph at 10th level to compensate for the lack of synergies.

---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/rules/skillSynergy6hrmq

FullFathom5
08-19-2010, 09:36 PM
Ah, that explains it! Well then, here is what I'm looking at for my bard (and I've decided to go human instead of half elf, because I seem to need a LOT of skill points).

At level:
Acrobatics, Perception, Stealth, and Oratory (Diplomacy, Sense Motive).

Either 3/4 level or 1/2 level:
Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Acting (Bluff, Disguise), Knowledge (Local, History, Nature, Arcana).

Everything else, either just 1 point, or none altogether.

Does that look like a good plan to you guys? Anything you'd recommend changing?

Gavril
08-20-2010, 06:47 AM
Looks good to me. The only comment I would make is that I will be covering Knowledge (nature, local), so Knowledge (History, Arcana) will be needed for for rounding out the groups skills.

FullFathom5
08-20-2010, 12:03 PM
Another question I have is, can I use a wand to cast any bard spell that I have the casting rank for? Or only those I already know?

Gavril
08-20-2010, 12:52 PM
If it's on the Bard spell list, you don't even need Use Magic Device, regardless of the spell or caster level, unless you don't know the appropriate spell trigger (activation word), then you need to Activate Blindly with Use Magic Device. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.

FullFathom5
08-20-2010, 02:10 PM
I'm building my background right now, and am running into a few questions that I don't know enough to have the answer for. One of which is:

My character's mother Valencia is a Sandpoint local, the sister of Vorvashali Voon. He's a human, described on one of the Pathfinder wikis as being "an exotic looking character with bright blue eyes, long red hair, and almost bronze-colored skin." So um.. what would you guess his lineage is? He doesn't sound like the dark Chelaxians, and not a traditional Varisian either. I'm just trying to build flavor for my character, but not sure yet what his heritage on his mother's side is.

Gavril
08-20-2010, 04:25 PM
I suspect he is Varisian with some Ulfen somewhere in his background to account for the hair or possibly Shoanti. Chelaxians are generally pale skinned, not dark, so I can't see him being Chelaxian..

FullFathom5
08-20-2010, 04:29 PM
Oops, by "dark" I meant dark hair, dark eyes.

rbaldri
08-21-2010, 08:49 AM
d20pfrsd.com generally will help you.

FullFathom5
08-30-2010, 09:40 PM
I have a question about the Arcane Duelist form of Bard found in the APG. In place of Suggestion, there's a Performance named Bladethirst, which adds a +1 enhancement bonus to a weapon. However, the Arcane Duelist still has Inspire Courage, which adds the +1 competence bonus to attacks and damage as well as a +1 morale bonus against charm and fear effects.

My question is whether this works in some way that I'm not realizing. Because it seems to me that I would always want to use Inspire Courage.. unless somehow the Bladethirst bonus lasted longer, so I could have both working at once, or something like that.

Gavril
08-31-2010, 09:14 AM
The bonus type is important here. A competence bonus never overcomes DR, but an enchantment bonus does. You can also impart special damage types (+1d6 fire/cold/electricity) to a magical weapon or, once you reach the +2 level with Bladethirst, impart the same to non-magical weapons. Bladethirst starts at 6th level as well. So if all you need is a bonus to hit then Courage works better, but if you need to attack a particular weakness or overcome some form of DR, Bladethirst works better. Finally, Inspire Courage is limited to a +4 bonus, while Bladethirst can reach +5. The two Performances are complementary.

FullFathom5
09-01-2010, 07:22 PM
Thanks! Okay, another question I have, looking to the future, is how useful the Fear spell is. Are there many times that we would actually want to send fleeing away into a dungeon? Wouldn't they likely just come back with reinforcements?

smithlrs2003
09-02-2010, 09:17 AM
The Fear spell is useful at low levels but becomes pretty useless the higher you get -- it doesn't take much to get past the 5 HD limit, and lots of creatures are immune to fear effects. Whether they come back depends on the creature -- a relatively dumb or low morale creature probably won't come back with reinforcements. The bigger help is actually that, if you plan it correctly, the other party members may get attacks of opportunity on the creature as it breaks and runs.

In terms of 1st level bard spells, in my opinion the best for combat are as follows: sleep, hideous laughter, grease, and then cause fear. Many of the other spells are great in certain situations -- like charm person & hypnotism, comprehend languages, alter self, etc.

Gavril
09-02-2010, 12:26 PM
In terms of Cause Fear, I'd say the above is a good answer. Fear (3rd level Bard Spell) is a little more useful. In both cases, it can also be a good way to run out the clock on summoned monsters when dealing with spellcasters that can fill up a battlefield with help.

For my money, I'd strongly suggest the "situation spells", particularly charm person and sleep (which can be swapped out at higher levels). We have a very bad weak spot right now in terms of capturing foes alive. By there very nature, APs have building story lines, killing everything in sight can leave a party at an extreme disadvantage. Goons can be killed pretty unthinkingly, but mid-tier leader types need to be captured and information extracted in order to deal with the big bads. The -4 to hit penalty for non-lethal damage is pretty harsh at low level, so spells that incapacitate are a lot easier to manage for this (barring elves that have way too good a saving throw, obviously :)).

FullFathom5
09-02-2010, 05:16 PM
Thanks guys.. it's much appreciated. Next question is, if I buy a wand of a given spell, how does that wand work with regard to effects that build off of level.

Just as an example, a Wand of Unseen Servant. Its duration increases "1 hour/level". If I want to be able to use the wand at level 2, would it need to be made as a level 1 or 2 wand? In which case, it would have 1 or 2 hour's duration? What happens when I become level 3? Does it still only have the duration with which it was made? Or does my level affect it in any way?

Gavril
09-03-2010, 04:35 AM
Wands have a fixed caster level, chosen at the time the wand is created. It must be equal to the lowest level at which the spell can be cast minimum, but can be as high as the caster's actual level. For instance, a Wand of Cause Fear created by a 5th level wizard (minimum needed to Craft Wand), could have a castyer level of anything from 1 to 5. A Wand of Fireballs must have a caster level of at least 5, so a 5th level wizard or 6th level sorcerer could craft it. The cost of the wand is equal to Spell Level X Caster Level X 750 gp.

So, a Caster Level 2 Wand of Unseen Servant would cost 1,500 gp and have a fixed duration of 2 hours. Item creation rules start on p 549 in the Core Rulebook.

There is a prestige class that allows you to substitue your caster level and/or caster attribute for the wand's (or other spell completion device), but normally your caster level and caster attribute doesn't matter. The Wand has the fixed effect selected by the crafter at creation time.

FullFathom5
09-03-2010, 08:40 AM
Do you happen to know which prestige class that is? If there was a way to swing it and still remain close to my character idea, that would be an awesome ability!

Gavril
09-03-2010, 01:39 PM
The Magician's Wand Mastery allows you to use your own Chr bonus. I thought I saw one to use your own caster level somewhere...but I can't seem to find it now.

FullFathom5
09-07-2010, 12:44 PM
Do you guys have any insights on the Bardic Performance skill Fascinate? I'm having a hard time thinking of situations where it would be terribly useful and would love some advice.

Gavril
09-07-2010, 09:34 PM
I think I finally figured out what I was thinking about with using your own caster level. Staves are now built so that they always use your own caster level and ability modifier, making them vastly more useful at higher levels, even if they are limited to 10 charges, and can only recover 1 charge per day.

Fascenate is obviously a very "non combat" action, and with what has been happening most recently not something there is much use for. In AP2, we have more going on inside a big city, and being able to keep the guard looking one way while eveyone else sneaks past fully armed and armored is not a bad thing. At higher levels, it's a prereq for suggestion, making it even more useful. Basically any time it would be useful to have someones attention, in a non-combat situation, otherwise occupied, its a nice ability to have.

---------- Post added at 09:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------

Here's my question for the night...has anyone seen any rules for aquiring henchmen. The Paladin description still references cohorts, henchmen and followers, so there seem to be 3 distinct things (2 of which are listed under Leadership) but I can't find any rules anywhere for what is considered a henchmen or how they are procured.

In the same vein....has anyone seen anything definitive on how many cohorts once can have. The boards seems to sometimes say one, sometimes say any number and sometimes say once per time you take leadership. Obviously a leader needs to have a handful of loyal and skilled retainers for holding down the castle while he's off adventuring, but I am having some trouble with figuring out how to do this is the Pathfinder ruleset.

At some point, I am thinking about building a "new lighthouse" on cutter's island (connected to the Catacombs of Wrath) as a base of operations. I figure it can be fortified without becoming a keep that might create political problems. I know I will want a dwarven engineer for a cohort to be responsible for all the constructions and such, but a few more people I can really depend on would be nice.

FullFathom5
09-08-2010, 10:46 AM
I assume you've already seen it, but I came across it here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/leadership---final.

I was wondering if anyone of us has taken, or plans to take Mending as one of the Level 0 spells?

Gavril
09-08-2010, 12:34 PM
The SRD is the same thing as in the Core Book unfortunately. There seems to be considerable doubt as to whether being able to attract "a" cohort means one or more than one as "a" is the indefinite. There is also a great big glaring whole where "henchmen" belong, as the Paladin class specifically mentions them but there seem to be no rules of discussions on the matter anywhere! :(

At least part of the problem seems to stim from "style". The designers (quite rightly) don't want to just let every party member drag along 5+ extras only 2 levels behind themselves without any XP penalty. At the same time, a party member that establishes a freehold could reasonably be expected to have 3-4 loyal cohorts (i.e. leveled individuals only slightly less experienced than the party itself) to maintain and run things while the "lord" is off adventuring with his friends. Instead of making any hard and fast rules, they appear to have just left things indefinite enought to fill pages of on-line discussion with no clear answers. :(

I am not planning on taking any spells, opting for the hunter's tricks available to rangers instead, so I can't help with any spellcraft.

Bromm
09-08-2010, 09:48 PM
You can only take Leadership once. Your cohort(by rules as written could take Leadership, and get a cohort and so on. This however, I don't agree with and won't allow). I'm not really sold on the Leadership feat, as far as having a cohort travel with you. That only relates to former gaming groups abusing things like Leadership, and so on. I don't see anything that mentions mechanical differences between cohort and henchman or henchman/follower. I realize cohorts or of a specific level below you, and followers are potentially numerous fans of yours.

You can send messages like these through the Yahoo website. I've not received any alerts about messages from this forum, and come to find out there is two pages of comments I've missed.