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jade von delioch
06-26-2010, 09:57 AM
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=25704

So this is old news by this point, but I have not been keeping up with it since I dislike 4th edition.
But after looking over the changes that had cropped up with the newer book, it seemed to me that the real problem was the fact that they tossed out the priority character build- which keep everyone from going chuck nuts and making powerful yet munchkin characters.

Did this changes make any difference for those of you who, 1) bought the book, and 2) play 4th edition?

MortonStromgal
07-12-2010, 07:06 PM
I can only answer number 1 as I dont play 4e. Some of the changes are good (new cost of attributes), others (like the bow and spells) are wacky and not the way I would have handled the problem. Others I'm on the fence because I don't play 4e and not entirely sure if it fixes anything or not. They would have to seriously nerf the magic and make decking/hacking fun again in order to get me to play 4e. FYI 4e does have a priority system but it is no longer default.

SirSlither
07-16-2010, 05:51 PM
HI there

In my personal opinion 4e is the most balanced edition of yet. It is by far the least munchable edition. Yes they threw out the priority system and moved to a point system but the point system has some very important limits. The piont system allows the GM's to tailor the characters power level better for their campaign. A standard character starts with 400 build points.

Attributes
no more than 50% of BP may be spent on physical and mental attributes. And the "maxing out" rule makes that last point in an attribute cost extra. An example: most Human characters end up with 2 stats at 5 and all others at 3. Another limit. no attribute may be augmented in any way more than 50% more then racial max rounded down.

Skills
Here is a big limit. only one skill can be purchased to level 6 or two may be purchased to 5, all other skills are maxed at 4. No more sams that kick butt with any weapon type. Dodge is a skill now so no more unreal dodge pools.

Gear
no character may spend more than 50 BP on gear, that includes cyberware/bioware. Most importantly no single piece of gear my have an availability above 12. Here is a list of some of the more unbalancing things you may not start with.: APDS rounds, panther assault cannons (you cant even buy the ammo for it), wired lv3, Titanium bone lacing,Suprathyroid Gland (that one hurt),Synaptic Booster lv3, full body armor(don't even ask about military grade, you will get arrested before the game even starts.). The good news because of the discovery of a massive Orichalcum vein you can actual afford to start with magical foci! The max availability rule applies so most foci are limit to level 2 (weapon,power) or 3 (for all others.)

Qualities (Edges and flaws)
No character may have more than 35 points in positive qualities. no character may have more than 35 points in negative qualities. A little min maxing allowed but not much. 35 BP in Negative qualities is not even 10%. Being a mage or adept cost quality points this further limits min-maxing.

Magic
Purchasing the mage or adept quality gives the character 1 point in magic rating. The rest must be purchased, this does not count against your attribute limit but the Maxing out rule does apply. Spells are simply purchased for 3BPs each and you either know them or you don't. However you can only buy twice your spellcasting skill in spells, most mages start with 12 spells. physical adept powers come directly from their magic rating, thus have a built in limit.

Edge (dice pools)
edge is an attribute that replaces dice pools and starts at 2 for humans and is 1 for everyone else. It does not count against your 50% limit. Edge may be purchased with a max of 7 for humans and 6 for everyone else. And yes the maxing out rule is in effect for this too. Edge can spent by the point to do things like reroll all non success on a test or to avoid a botch (called a glitch). Edge is regained at the beginning of each game session or other special events, important story event or critical glitch (my favorite).


The basic system is more balanced, the target number is always 5 only the number of dice added or subtracted changes. I.E. no more smart link dropping the target to 2 on a character with a massive combat pool.


And now we get to the matrix, shadowruns Achilles heal if you ask me. No GM wants spend that much time on just one player. The new wireless Matrix is a big improvement however but still a weak point. At least the hacker is not tied to a clunky deck anymore and can travel with the party while doing his thing. The rules have been simplified but hackers and the new technomage still pretty much take a back seat to sam's,mages, and physadd but at least they now have a seat at the table.


Personally I think it is the best edition yet. on a side note this is the best bound edition I have ever owned. I bought mine about 4 years ago and it is still in one piece unlike my 3rd edition that fell apart after 3 weeks.

Well hope that helps, got any questions just ask.