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View Full Version : The End of 4e D&D



Dark
06-03-2010, 03:41 PM
I know I was the one who posted jokingly on when 5e D&D was going to come out and I found a place with information to just that. I am only posting a link to the discussion and here it is http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=50914&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=50914&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0).

Sascha
06-03-2010, 06:12 PM
D&D Essentials, as I understand it, is 4E's beginner's box, not its replacement - hence the callback to Red Box D&D. The Rules Compendium-style books are the next step, complete with rules updates built-in (instead of getting all the current core books + updates), plus some additional material (new paths and powers for existing classes).

Matt James
06-04-2010, 05:53 AM
Yep. As a current writer/designer for 4e D&D, I can tell you that D&D Essentials is not 5th edition (lol).

Blydden
06-04-2010, 09:07 AM
Oh, trust me, I will know 5th edition instantly once I set my eyes upon it and am unexplainably filled with a burning hatred and urge to purge it from the Earth!

On the actual topic of the Essentials themselves...I got nothing. :p

Q-man
06-04-2010, 10:02 AM
I wonder how confusing these essentials books will be? They'll have different rules than the original rule books since all the errata will be included, similar to the changes the Character Builder has from what the rulebooks say. I suppose the differences will only be a of interest to for rules lawyers since they'd be able to nitpick on the differences.

I can't see D&D 5 happening just yet though. They still have a lot of material that could be put out for the 4E rule set yet.

Farcaster
06-04-2010, 11:34 AM
I understand their business model. They've stated the goal themselves at some point that they would cycle through new editions every 5-6 years or whatever it was. Nonetheless, I think it is ill conceived. The only time they should be coming to the table with a new edition is when they actually have some innovation to bring with them. It shouldn't be updated just for the sake of Hasbro's profit margins. If they're bringing something new and better to the game, then I welcome the new edition, but not if all it is, is a grab to reprint the same material ad nauseum.

Dark
06-05-2010, 09:14 AM
I'm sorry it was more of a typo on my behalf saying that it was 5e and for that I do apologize. That being said everyone please go to the site and read the posts . I found that they discussing as to why 4e is failing and the reasons behind it give it a read and see what I mean.

Q-man
06-07-2010, 06:13 AM
So I read through part of that thread and it sounds like a lot of hot air and conjecture about the future of D&D. This whole business about the Essentials books changing the rules in anyway just doesn't seem true. If you read the blurb (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/244660000) up on Wizard's site about it it doesn't say anything about new or modified rules. It reads more like they are presenting the rules in a new way, probably so that new players have an easier time figuring them out. Pretty much what the old red box starter set did, which makes copying that a cute bit of marketing.

As for the other essentials books (Heroes of the Fallen Lands (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/247520000) and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/247510000)) they also don't change the rules of the game. Looking over what they discuss, again I don't see a change in the rules. They are just adding new features to the classes and races, so consider them another addition in the Powers line of books. Instead of picking a power source, it looks like they are returning to what used to be the core classes from previous editions of the game.

I'll admit I didn't read all of that thread, nor did I scour all of the stuff out their regarding what the essentials book has, but that thread seems like a bunch of folks that dislike 4E talking about how they dislike it. Which is fine, which is fine, there's some valid points the system does have more than a few bad ideas put into it. I'd like to think that the inclusion of all these extra rulebooks gives you enough options that you could easily play around those problems, its not true so far but theres still more books on the way so its possible. These things just add to what you can do within the rules so that whatever you are looking for in a build will be out there somewhere. Not everyone wants to try and think up balanced mechanics to change some of the more annoying powers into useful ones, so Wizards is offering new choices so that you can ignore the ones that suck.

Matt James
06-20-2010, 05:19 PM
The rules are not changing. There may be clarifications and updates as per errata, but the rules are staying the same.

ironface
06-21-2010, 06:29 PM
IF D&D essentials rids the majority of all those silly special abilities and feats, I and other old school fans like myself might be interested. Otherwise I'm sticking with the retro clones.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
06-21-2010, 11:40 PM
I understand their business model. They've stated the goal themselves at some point that they would cycle through new editions every 5-6 years or whatever it was. Nonetheless, I think it is ill conceived. The only time they should be coming to the table with a new edition is when they actually have some innovation to bring with them. It shouldn't be updated just for the sake of Hasbro's profit margins. If they're bringing something new and better to the game, then I welcome the new edition, but not if all it is, is a grab to reprint the same material ad nauseum.

What he said.

tesral
06-22-2010, 01:10 AM
What he said.


However it is far too late. D&D is now corporate entertainment product. At least we can still make out own.

TheDarkestOfAngels
07-16-2010, 03:19 PM
Eh. I'd be little surprised if they announced that 5th edition would never happen this month and next month we get 'gue55 what we've got in store you next month!' and other fun hints. Perhaps the backdrop of their website will one day be temporarily replaced with a bunch of dice with all 5s being perfectly visible without actually stating that they've had this planned since two months after 4th's release.

Just like they did with 4th edition. (Not exacty but please understand my point.)

... I don't know. After being severely underwhelmed by the actual product and their seemingly unnatural enthusiasm for it, I figure I'm perfectly happy with 3.5 edition and/or Pathfinder being the best variation of the kind of game D&D is, or at least should be in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, my group had some 4th edition style fun when we playtested the game, but we were far more enthusiastic to play D&D when we found the pathfinder core rulebook at our game store.

Guardian
07-21-2010, 10:44 PM
... I don't know. After being severely underwhelmed by the actual product and their seemingly unnatural enthusiasm for it, I figure I'm perfectly happy with 3.5 edition and/or Pathfinder being the best variation of the kind of game D&D is, or at least should be in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, my group had some 4th edition style fun when we playtested the game, but we were far more enthusiastic to play D&D when we found the pathfinder core rulebook at our game store.

This for our group as well. I mean, 4th did a few things right (faster leveling, Mages not running out of spells and attacking defenses instead of forcing a roll), but around seven or eight months into the game, my players grew bored of 4th.

To quote them, the felt like it had "no role-playing feel" to it. When I had heard about Pathfinder, I flipped through it and immediately snatched a copy. We've been playing for a good year and a half now and haven't looked back at 4th since.

Dalboz
08-26-2010, 05:54 AM
That's somewhat been my complaint about 4th edition so far, although admittedly my experience has been limited to the Dark Sun Encounters games. 4E feels like the focus is mostly on combat and little else. I've always liked puzzle/problem-solving and finding unique solutions rather than straight hack-and-slash gameplay. It probably depends on the game/GM though.

Besides, on some research on Essentials, it appears to be little more than a simplified rules starter set for new players, something which the existing D&D product line really was lacking. If the interview WotC did earlier this year is correct, Essentials will only be a ten product line and then it's done and back to regular D&D, and the reason we see only Essentials products being released during the last quarter of this year is because they just don't have the manpower to work on both lines at the same time.