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nytflyr
04-27-2010, 04:57 PM
sometime in the (near/far?) future, I will be partaking in a D&D game based in the Middle Earth (at least that is the current version, things may change between now and then).

so Ive decided on a generic human fighter that will be specialized in a short spear, with all the right feats I think it could be an effective melee and ranged weapon.

so any opinions on this? what feats to take, which ones to avoid? Im thinking start with WS: shortspear & point blank shot & power attack, but Im not solidified on any of this.

Arcan
04-28-2010, 07:04 AM
You can't get weapon specialization until you are a level 4 fighter. Plus you would need Weapon focus first. I'm assuming you meant weapon focus. the other two seem pretty solid, but you will obviously want to carry several spears.

nytflyr
04-28-2010, 09:42 AM
You can't get weapon specialization until you are a level 4 fighter. Plus you would need Weapon focus first. I'm assuming you meant weapon focus. the other two seem pretty solid, but you will obviously want to carry several spears.

D'oh, yeah Weapon Focus... I must have been thinking Hero system there for a moment...:frusty:

Crom on his Mountain
04-28-2010, 10:24 AM
Ugh, spears get the shaft in D&D (no pun intended). If I were you I'd ask if the DM would let long spears be treated by exotic one-handed weapons (or even with martial weapon prof) or a double weapon (with the other end being a 1d6 bludgeon). RAW, spears suck.

nytflyr
04-28-2010, 03:23 PM
Ugh, spears get the shaft in D&D (no pun intended). If I were you I'd ask if the DM would let long spears be treated by exotic one-handed weapons (or even with martial weapon prof) or a double weapon (with the other end being a 1d6 bludgeon). RAW, spears suck.

Maybe I'm missing something (and I probably am) how is a long spear better? its two-handed, can't be thrown and only has 1d8 for damage. I do like the bludgeon part though, and it shouldn't be to hard to talk the GM into that.

EDIT: Ok, I think i see the issue, PCGen has a short-spear doing x3 on a crit while d20srd.com has it doing x2, which is correct?

Malruhn
04-28-2010, 04:40 PM
Ugh, spears get the shaft in D&D (no pun intended). If I were you I'd ask if the DM would let long spears be treated by exotic one-handed weapons (or even with martial weapon prof) or a double weapon (with the other end being a 1d6 bludgeon). RAW, spears suck.
In what reality are spears a ONE-handed weapon? Other than for show, a one-hand-wielded spear is nothing more than a big stick that can be pushed aside with NO problem and has crap for attack power or accuracy... unless you were meaning for throwing - in which case it is even less of a one-handed weapon.

Your point on allowing a double weapon deal, though, is TOTALLY warranted. I may have a new house-rule here!

Dr.Dead
04-28-2010, 05:15 PM
In what reality are spears a ONE-handed weapon? Other than for show, a one-hand-wielded spear is nothing more than a big stick that can be pushed aside with NO problem and has crap for attack power or accuracy... unless you were meaning for throwing - in which case it is even less of a one-handed weapon.

Your point on allowing a double weapon deal, though, is TOTALLY warranted. I may have a new house-rule here!


Well I have a Human Fighter That specialize in the Composite Longbow He's 12 level I've had him for 3 years now he is usually the last one to ever get hit.

He does 1d8+2d6(fire damage)+15
2nd round of arrow damage +1d6(fire damage) +1d6 (Con. damage DC 15 Fort save negates "poison")
3rd round of arrow damage +1d6(Con. Damage DC 17 fort save) This effect does not work if he or she made the first Fortitude saving throw the previous round.

He also has a +24 to hit on his first shot

it's awesome to have a character to be specialized in one weapon but theirs a drawback to it, if you lose that weapon and don't have a spare you are the weakest member on the party if you were all the same level. Your the strongest person and the weakest at the same time.

But keep it up with your character and tell me how it goes :-)

nytflyr
04-28-2010, 05:37 PM
In what reality are spears a ONE-handed weapon? Other than for show, a one-hand-wielded spear is nothing more than a big stick that can be pushed aside with NO problem and has crap for attack power or accuracy... unless you were meaning for throwing - in which case it is even less of a one-handed weapon.

Might tell that to the Romans

cigamnogard
04-28-2010, 07:28 PM
Or the Greeks

wizarddog
04-29-2010, 01:29 AM
Maybe I'm missing something (and I probably am) how is a long spear better? its two-handed, can't be thrown and only has 1d8 for damage. I do like the bludgeon part though, and it shouldn't be to hard to talk the GM into that.

A Long spear has reach. Don't knock it.

templeorder
04-29-2010, 09:06 AM
I used to fight a lot and spear is one of the best weapons ever. Yea, Phillip and Alexander only conquered most of their known world with the sarissa (ok, its a pike). The greeks were very fond of spears. This is the trade off of such systems... in my own, a long spear does about 50+ damage on a full hit - your average human has 40 resilience. Do the math, its ugly. A spear can be found almost anywhere, its easy to use, easy to make, does great damage, has reach, its VERY fast (its not as easy to knock aside as you might think), smaller ones can be thrown, it can be used in multiple ranks, cheap... the list goes on. "Spear levies" use spears for a reason - easiest weapon to arm a noob with to do the most damage. Its my favorite weapon as a character... but i use a system that seriously emphasizes all those advantages. I did make a spartan using 3.x rules once - it took a few little custom tweaks and some DM approval but it was seriously fun.

TheYeti1775
04-29-2010, 01:49 PM
In what reality are spears a ONE-handed weapon? Other than for show, a one-hand-wielded spear is nothing more than a big stick that can be pushed aside with NO problem and has crap for attack power or accuracy... unless you were meaning for throwing - in which case it is even less of a one-handed weapon.

Your point on allowing a double weapon deal, though, is TOTALLY warranted. I may have a new house-rule here!


Might tell that to the Romans


Or the Greeks
Note using long spear with shield.
http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/800px-phalanx.jpg

Malruhn
05-05-2010, 07:17 PM
Sure, that's great in a huge formation where the guy next to you covers the area next to your spear-point... and the guy behind you covers anyone that gets through the initial row of pointy sticks.

You will note that in this drawing (http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-294369/ancient-military-before-1500ad/), as well as this drawing (http://www.sgibson.k12.in.us/gshs_new/ms_socstud/marathon_dwmpnl/phalanx.jpg), the phalanx used both hands to wield the spears.

But on one-on-one combat, a one-handed spear is nothing but a pokey stick that gets ONE attack before it is swatted aside with disdain as the opponent closes to sword-range.

templeorder
05-06-2010, 09:29 AM
I would ask those who have fought to chime in here. The spear is a great weapon. Granted, if i were to master anything it would be an axe, not spear, and certainly not sword all things considered. But if you ever fought against a spearman who knows how to use it, its very difficult. Its WAY faster than almost any other weapon out there, at least 2x faster than most swords. "Swatted aside" i rarely see happen unless the person using it is inexperienced with it - and yes, its much easier if the enemy is wielding it 1 handed. You can move easy and still threaten with it, you can KEEP people at reach. With a large light shield you can really hide your attacks well. Its a great weapon for a starting warrior - for all the reasons i listed. If war was the only consideration, and i had unlimited funds - i will concede - sword it would be.. with chainmail and a light shield (classic middle period viking). In the fantasy world i usually game in, starting characters have 100 silvers.. a broadsword is 550. Lets just say its a while before my new characters see it... spear is usually the first weapon i take.

Dark
05-06-2010, 05:06 PM
I've always loved spears there are so many uses for them not to mention they're dirt cheap.

rabkala
05-06-2010, 10:20 PM
So, do we really want to debate the spear? Or... Do we really want to know the better weapons than spear in 3.5 D&D?

The spear is not the optimal choice in 3.5 D&D. Debate real life versus game mechanics if you will, there are many better choices. Availability of magic weapons, damage potential, feat selection, range, etc...

:eek: Is your heart set on spear? Do you want to know how to optimize spear or to go with something else?

Dark
05-07-2010, 04:36 AM
I'm sorry the but I beg to differ most of my players who take fighters, rangers or barbarians have taken spear, sword, dagger in that order and this is from 30+ years of DMing. The point is to have fun and to see your character in your mind as you create him/her now THAT is the goal to creation. I've seen a simple dagger slay a giant in the correct hands which one is fun who knows I guess thats for the player to decide.

Arcan
05-07-2010, 09:45 AM
The sword is just the stereotypical weapon for a fighter. If you check the random magic item tables in the DMG, you will notice that spears are just as common as ony other weapon. If you have a decent DM, he will tailor the treasure to the party. I have never given a magic item as treasure that someone in the group can't use. If you are going to give them an item they will only sell, you might as well give them GP, gems, or expensive spell components.

Back on topic, shortspear does x2, spear does x3, longspear does x3 on crits.

cigamnogard
05-07-2010, 06:39 PM
There is a feat that is from Conan RPG that allows you to use the long spear and sheild. I think it is also race specific. And if someone in my game wanted the combination - I would allow it.

rabkala
05-28-2010, 08:02 PM
Any Monty Hall DM will tailor the treasure to the party. Any wimp/new age/really wants to be a player DM will tailor the treasure to the party to fit their oh so beautiful (no matter how indulgent and foolish) backstory. I'm sure your "decent" DM will also allow ill advised, poorly thought out, non D&D feats to help you really Munchkin your spear wielder to the Max!

Oh yes, in that game why not pick Jung-meh!

cigamnogard
05-31-2010, 05:57 PM
Pardon?

Lord.Sorasen
06-02-2010, 08:57 PM
Any Monty Hall DM will tailor the treasure to the party. Any wimp/new age/really wants to be a player DM will tailor the treasure to the party to fit their oh so beautiful (no matter how indulgent and foolish) backstory. I'm sure your "decent" DM will also allow ill advised, poorly thought out, non D&D feats to help you really Munchkin your spear wielder to the Max!

Oh yes, in that game why not pick Jung-meh!

Because God forbid a DM makes the game fun for his players.

Farcaster
06-03-2010, 12:37 PM
In what reality are spears a ONE-handed weapon? Other than for show, a one-hand-wielded spear is nothing more than a big stick that can be pushed aside with NO problem and has crap for attack power or accuracy... unless you were meaning for throwing - in which case it is even less of a one-handed weapon.

They made it look pretty effective in 300 ;) And actually, I used to study Wah Lum kung-fu. The (short) spear form had a lot of one handed techniques in it.


Any Monty Hall DM will tailor the treasure to the party. Any wimp/new age/really wants to be a player DM will tailor the treasure to the party to fit their oh so beautiful (no matter how indulgent and foolish) backstory. I'm sure your "decent" DM will also allow ill advised, poorly thought out, non D&D feats to help you really Munchkin your spear wielder to the Max!

I am among those DMs who tailor the magic items I give out in the game to the player characters. I suppose that makes me a "wimp" DM by your standards. Frankly though, I prefer magic items to be more special and precious. I don't want them to be so common place that there is an entire market flooded with items you can buy. So, I would rather the players find something they need (or quest for it) than give them a bunch of junk that they just end up selling like we're playing some tabletop version of Diablo.

Just because someone plays the game differently than you do is not cause to start throwing around insults, so let's tone down the rhetoric a bit.

templeorder
06-05-2010, 09:25 AM
I do both. Its a fact you will find stuff you do not need - its items collected over time by enemies who can use them more than the party can. But i always try and give specific rewards - by lieges, churches, brotherhood, etc specifically to improve the party. These know the recipients well and want to make them more effective. I start small - horses, saddles, armor, and then move to non mgical (tailored armor, better crafted), then move to magical as the PC's gain in fame and importance to their associates. I also dont run other people play scenarios any more, i make them all myself.

I think its more of a cop-out (wimpy?) for a DM to lame out and just start rolling on tables. And the least creative and inspired DM's are the ones who just run modules front to back without adjusting to maximize challenge and fun - giving out a bunch of trasure and items from canned adventuring is a starting place for DMs, not the finish line... path of least resistance if you ask me.

Rastfar
06-10-2010, 03:51 PM
I like the spear. However, I tend to build PC's with a flavour first and so I pick their weapons accordingly, not just based off of stats.

In my campaigns we play with this feat. You may wish to bring it to your DM:

Haft-Fighting [fighter, general]
You may use a a two-handed shaft-like haft-weapon a double weapon.
Prerequisite: Martial Weapon Proficiency (any two-handed shaft-like haft-weapon), base attack bonus +1 or higher.
Benefit: You may use a two-handed shaft-like haft-weapon you are proficient in as a double weapon, using the haft as a light blunt weapon that does 1d4 damage. The normal penalties for fighting with a double weapons apply, and the benefits of the Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting feats may apply. Switching from using a spear normally to as a two-handed weapon (and vice versa) is a move action. Examples of weapons that this can be used with are the spear, long spear and halberd.
Special: Weapons with reach greater than 5 used in this way, have their reach decreased by 5'. A fighter may select Haft-Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.