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BIGKILLA
04-25-2010, 02:08 PM
As the title states.

Just thought i would break the ice with the first post in this glorious section.

Cubanfrog
04-25-2010, 02:47 PM
The world of warhammer is great, but the rules (I've only played only 2 ed) kinda suck... But it doesn't prevent me of having fun playing it. But I wouldn't say it's greatest RPG ever.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-25-2010, 03:34 PM
Hm, i've always loved the rules - they're simple, easy to understand, gritty, dark, and allow some flexibility for the GM and players (a requirement, if you ask me) when running a campaign - no libraries of rulebooks needed to play said game, thank the gods!. My vote also goes to WFRP being the best fantasy roleplaying game ever! when speaking of 1E and 2E. Haven't played 3E as of yet, so i can only say that from what i've heard, i have high hopes.

Hey BIGKILLA, have you tried WFRP3E, as of yet?

Oh, and, keep an eye on this sub-forum as well as the Traveller sub-forum, for i have quite a few threads i will be initiating shortly in both gaming genres.

BIGKILLA
04-25-2010, 05:11 PM
well, i haven't played 3E yet but i just recently (last week) purchased the core box and the players and gm's toolkits and extra dice set from Ebay, hoping they will be here soon. To the best of my knowledge i will own every book for Warhammer 1st 2nd and 3rd when i get the 3e stuff. I absolutely love the Warhammer setting and Mythology.

Richard Littles
04-25-2010, 05:57 PM
For me the best fantasy role playing game is Fantasy Hero. I can use any setting I want with it and it includes rules for handling mass combats of armies between each other. Character creation is wide open for what a player can create and the magic system can be defined to suit the setting by the gm.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-25-2010, 07:29 PM
well, i haven't played 3E yet but i just recently (last week) purchased the core box and the players and gm's toolkits and extra dice set from Ebay, hoping they will be here soon. To the best of my knowledge i will own every book for Warhammer 1st 2nd and 3rd when i get the 3e stuff. I absolutely love the Warhammer setting and Mythology.

Wow! You and me, both. I also have everything every published for 1E & 2E, including the entire - and unofficial - Private Wars Campaign - which is excellent - and took me nearly 10 years to collect all 4*.

* http://www.shadow-warriors.co.uk/Warhammer.htm

A quote by Tim Eccles, creator of said campaign:

The campaign is one of my own design, and was initially proposed to Hogshead Publishing as a sourcebook on The Empire or provinces therein. They rejected it, but we have been playing it for some time now. The four parts that I published are as follows:
Part 1: A Private War
Part 2: All Quiet in Kislev
Part 3: Homeward Bound
Part 4: A Pass Too Far/-side

Always nice to meet a hard-core WFRP gamer! Expect a friend invitation, shortly.

jpatterson
04-30-2010, 04:25 PM
My group likes WFRP the best for the most part, though we haven't played a WHOLE lot of other stuff. I have some reservations and issues with some of its mechanics and setup but overall its good, though it feels a bit "scattered" to me. But we've been playing since 1st Ed, though I don't see us going to 3rd - I've made a few small fan supplements for 2nd E for my own use and shared them on the net.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-30-2010, 04:43 PM
Well, share the WFRP fan supplements here, jpatterson. Don't leave us hangin'

mrken
04-30-2010, 11:11 PM
My favorite was Pendragon. It was something I was familiar with before I even played it and found the rules to be quickly understood and implemented, the supplements were easy to add to the game and added a real depth to the characters. The fact that death seemed to come fairly quickly was eases with picking up one of the satellite NPC's the characters had.

Star Frontiers was another game I found to be quite fun and very easy to play and expand upon. It was the basis to my homegrown fantasy rules.

MortonStromgal
05-01-2010, 01:44 AM
I really liked 2e! So far with 3e I like that they moved to dice pools and simplified XP but they made it more like playing an advanced Arkham Horror, which I'm not so wild about but I only have the core.

BIGKILLA
05-01-2010, 02:49 AM
I really liked 2e! So far with 3e I like that they moved to dice pools and simplified XP but they made it more like playing an advanced Arkham Horror, which I'm not so wild about but I only have the core.


yeah the dice pool reminds me of fantasy flights decent game

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
05-01-2010, 07:39 AM
My favorite was Pendragon. It was something I was familiar with before I even played it and found the rules to be quickly understood and implemented, the supplements were easy to add to the game and added a real depth to the characters. The fact that death seemed to come fairly quickly was eases with picking up one of the satellite NPC's the characters had.

I've heard good things about Pendragon. I'll make an effort to look it up on the net today.

Star Frontiers was another game I found to be quite fun and very easy to play and expand upon. It was the basis to my homegrown fantasy rules.

Loved the game. Still have some modules to the game somewhere.

jpatterson
05-02-2010, 05:01 AM
Oh that is so awesome! I thought I was going to have to link to my page but I copied and it pasted the linked stuff here! Now, not all of it is great, some of it is 2nd edition, some of it is unfinished, etc. But the first few things are pretty solid I think, though I haven't done any WFRP stuff in a little while.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e325/okiecrabjp/rpgs/wfrp/th_ss-wfrpadv-winterscoldheart.pnghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e325/okiecrabjp/rpgs/wfrp/th_ss-bruisersbonebreakers.pnghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e325/okiecrabjp/rpgs/wfrp/th_wfrp2-gems.jpg


First Edition Inspirations: 2nd Edition Updates for Zoats and Fimir (http://www.zanysite.com/files/wfrp2-jp-inspirations.pdf) – Zoats and Fimir resturn to 2nd Edition, with PC Races and Careers for each, and converting 1st to 2nd Edition, plus stats for creatures, NPCs, PCs

Bruisers & Bonebreakers (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-bruisers.pdf) – detailed rules supplement for Grappling/Wrestling plus two complete Wrestler Careers, 2nd Edition

Mass Combat & Siege Weapons (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-masscombat&siege.pdf) – presents rules for simple mass combat including the use of siege weapons, all without minis, 1st Edition

Adventure/Scenario: Winter’s Cold Heart (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-winterscoldheart-adv.pdf) – a dark force haunts a cheery little inn in a frozen no-man’s land, generic setting suitable for most games, investigative horror

Adventure/Scenario: Into the Warrens (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/scen-wfrp-intothewarrens.pdf) – the PCs journey to the lair of the Ghoul Lord to help a comrade, best used as a “drop in” sub-adventure

WFRP2E “Skills” Character Sheet (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-charsheet-skills.pdf) – Call of Cthulhu skill style character sheet

Personal Grimoire (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-personalgrimoire.pdf) – page with room to record 4 spells

Treasure: Gems & Jewelry (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-gems.pdf) – A Guide to Precious Things Part I, for quick random determination of gems and jewelry and precious metals

Town Profile Sheet – Simple (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-townprofilesheet-simple.pdf) – a “character sheet” to use for settlements and towns
Town Profile Sheet – Standard (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-townsheet-standard.pdf)
Town Profile Sheet – Detailed (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-townsheet-detailed.pdf) – based on CIA World Factbook format
Town Profile Sheet – Gazetteer (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-gazetteer-3pg.pdf) – 3 pages
Character Creation “Cheat Sheet” (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-charcreasheet.pdf)

BIGKILLA
05-02-2010, 03:39 PM
Oh that is so awesome! I thought I was going to have to link to my page but I copied and it pasted the linked stuff here! Now, not all of it is great, some of it is 2nd edition, some of it is unfinished, etc. But the first few things are pretty solid I think, though I haven't done any WFRP stuff in a little while.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e325/okiecrabjp/rpgs/wfrp/th_ss-wfrpadv-winterscoldheart.pnghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e325/okiecrabjp/rpgs/wfrp/th_ss-bruisersbonebreakers.pnghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e325/okiecrabjp/rpgs/wfrp/th_wfrp2-gems.jpg


First Edition Inspirations: 2nd Edition Updates for Zoats and Fimir (http://www.zanysite.com/files/wfrp2-jp-inspirations.pdf) – Zoats and Fimir resturn to 2nd Edition, with PC Races and Careers for each, and converting 1st to 2nd Edition, plus stats for creatures, NPCs, PCs

Bruisers & Bonebreakers (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-bruisers.pdf) – detailed rules supplement for Grappling/Wrestling plus two complete Wrestler Careers, 2nd Edition

Mass Combat & Siege Weapons (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-masscombat&siege.pdf) – presents rules for simple mass combat including the use of siege weapons, all without minis, 1st Edition

Adventure/Scenario: Winter’s Cold Heart (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-winterscoldheart-adv.pdf) – a dark force haunts a cheery little inn in a frozen no-man’s land, generic setting suitable for most games, investigative horror

Adventure/Scenario: Into the Warrens (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/scen-wfrp-intothewarrens.pdf) – the PCs journey to the lair of the Ghoul Lord to help a comrade, best used as a “drop in” sub-adventure

WFRP2E “Skills” Character Sheet (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-charsheet-skills.pdf) – Call of Cthulhu skill style character sheet

Personal Grimoire (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-personalgrimoire.pdf) – page with room to record 4 spells

Treasure: Gems & Jewelry (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-gems.pdf) – A Guide to Precious Things Part I, for quick random determination of gems and jewelry and precious metals

Town Profile Sheet – Simple (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-townprofilesheet-simple.pdf) – a “character sheet” to use for settlements and towns
Town Profile Sheet – Standard (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-townsheet-standard.pdf)
Town Profile Sheet – Detailed (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-townsheet-detailed.pdf) – based on CIA World Factbook format
Town Profile Sheet – Gazetteer (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-gazetteer-3pg.pdf) – 3 pages
Character Creation “Cheat Sheet” (http://www.zanysite.com/tabletoprpgfun/files/wfrp2-jp-charcreasheet.pdf)

pretty good stuff thanks

APN
05-03-2010, 11:12 AM
I liked 1st Edition, GM'd that a bit when it came out. My players seemed to like it too but they always steered me back to GMing BECMI (Basic, Expert, Companion etc D&D) so that'd be my favourite. I have looked out for 2nd hand copies of WFRP on ebay and they either go for silly money or don't come up often. I take it it's a well loved version of the game then! What's the main differences, or was it mostly organisational/art and fluff that got changed rather than the system?

jpatterson
05-04-2010, 02:08 AM
Stats changed a little, reorganized, changed the scale, made them a little more consistent - they combined a couple of stats into one, so you'd have to do some figuring to translate chars from one to the next. There's Strength, then there's Strength Bonus type thing, which is the first digit of the percentile Str score, etc. Expanded and refined skills and abilities, that sort of thing. More standardized stat blocks, careers, weapons and combat mechanics.

To be honest, it's just enough, in my opinion, to be able to NOT have to use the new (well, 2ndE) system to make use of the other new supplements, but enough that it is always a slighlt hassle if you're NOT using it - it's a very subtle in between. But it's a very natural and organic progression from 1st to 2nd E changes, nothing drastic, but very good and about universally applauded changes, a very good "update" and I felt made it a solid system that could easily survive another couple of decades out of print, supported only by fan material, just like previously.

Farcaster
05-04-2010, 02:19 AM
As the title states.

So, what makes this the best fantasy roleplaying game "ever?" Tell me a little bit more.

BIGKILLA
05-04-2010, 03:47 PM
So, what makes this the best fantasy roleplaying game "ever?" Tell me a little bit more.

Well in my opinion it definitely has the best setting out there for a published world/setting. Dark and gritty where someone or something could be lurking around every corner ready to slit your throat and steal the few measly copper coins from your pockets. You have just as much if not more to fear by lurking around a huge city from the scum and villainy of humankind as you do by going into the woods and being hunted by greenskins and hordes of chaos.

Its low fantasy which i really like, not everyone and there brother are walking around weilding magical weapons. Magic is rare and powerful, something to be feared and awed. Heck even magic-users or Wizards are rare, magic using has some severe costs to both body and mind, using magic can both literally kill you or drive you crazy. then if you are a unschooled wizard and not officially recognized by the states you run the risk of running afoul of the dreaded Witch hunters.

It has a very well developed Mythology with some great characters such as Sigmar and the great Gotrek and Felix.The religions are really nicely done more gritty than other settings like DnD where "oh im a cleric im gonna be the party healer and save the day". That really isn't present in Warhammer, death and disease are all very real parts of everyday life, and raise deads and ressurections are basically unheard of.

Combat, what is there to say about combat other than DON'T DO IT!!, combat on any level in Warhammer = death and maiming, even to the most experienced warriors every combat could lead to death or the amputation of your favored body parts. The last campaign i started a few moths back the Path of the Damed series, my group, virgins to warhammer learned the hard way that combat is not something to be taken lightly, thank Sigmar for Fate Points (a mechanic for saving your life, that once you use them you lose them). This leads to much richer and involved roleplaying (something which alot of newer players don't really know what is IMO).

And one other note on setting. It has been argued by many that warhammer is the home to the best fantasy campaign ever produced for any game in The Enemy Within.

I could go one for days and day on "how i love thee oh warhammer " but i will quit talking for now.

Farcaster
05-04-2010, 04:15 PM
Combat, what is there to say about combat other than DON'T DO IT!!, combat on any level in Warhammer = death and maiming, even to the most experienced warriors every combat could lead to death or the amputation of your favored body parts.

I am all for more roleplaying, however, isn't combat part of the fantasy gaming experience? Last weekend for example, the first three hours of my D&D game were roleplaying and exploration, which everyone at the table enjoyed. At the same time, when those magical words, "Initiative!", were called, the players were just as excited. It was well timed change of pace that the group was ready for. I have a hard time imagining getting what I want out of fantasy gaming if combat was not a bit romanticized and instead ruthlessly punished.

Do you not find that to be the case?

fmitchell
05-04-2010, 05:29 PM
I am all for more roleplaying, however, isn't combat part of the fantasy gaming experience? ... I have a hard time imagining getting what I want out of fantasy gaming if combat was not a bit romanticized and instead ruthlessly punished.

Combat in WFRP isn't "ruthlessly punished", but it is a riskier affair than D&D. (Somewhat like RuneQuest or GURPS.) 2nd Edition is a bit like D&D, in that you're OK until you lose all your hit points (or wound points), but you only get 10 to 15 ever ... and after that it's the dreaded Critical Wounds table, which includes maiming and death. In 3rd Edition, characters can get critical wounds on an especially hard hit, although the ones I've seen are more tame (e.g. an extra Misfortune die to attacks), but seem to take forever to heal.

I've read that the original WFRP was a reaction to D&D: instead of heroes bounding around a dungeon killing things and grabbing their loot, WFRP has ordinary folks just trying to survive trolls, Chaos monsters, undead, angry elves, rat people who officially don't exist, and fanatical witch hunters who think you're a servant of Chaos. In D&D, adventurers are larger-than-life heroes; in WFRP, adventurers are suspiciously rootless outsiders. In D&D, you master awesome powers; in WFRP awesome powers master you.

BIGKILLA
05-04-2010, 05:46 PM
I've read that the original WFRP was a reaction to D&D: instead of heroes bounding around a dungeon killing things and grabbing their loot, WFRP has ordinary folks just trying to survive trolls, Chaos monsters, undead, angry elves, rat people who officially don't exist, and fanatical witch hunters who think you're a servant of Chaos. In D&D, adventurers are larger-than-life heroes; in WFRP, adventurers are suspiciously rootless outsiders. In D&D, you master awesome powers; in WFRP awesome powers master you.

very nicely stated.:cool:

jpatterson
05-05-2010, 09:44 PM
Those are pretty good encapsulations. I'd like to state that I do disagree with the general blanket statement that "combat is deadly" in WFRP, the same way people say "Call of Cthulhu is all about investigation". It all depends on the adventure and the GM and the players, but all can be done with a variety of levels of exploring, investigating and combat.

All my group's WFRP sessions have at least 1-3 combats, but yes, they are more acute and likely to wind up putting someone out of commission for a couple of days, and we've lost a few characters, mostly because the players were dumb or the rolls were just horrendous and people forgot to use their abilities and Fortune points and such, but I personally feel that introduces some interesting choices for the party as a whole, to examine alternate options and approaches to situations, when half the group is laying around with bandages stained red, trying to figure out how to get across the kingdom of Endless Horror without dying.

I do like the setting/campaign, and agree it is very well developed, with fan-made material from even 1st edition still findable, on places, things and people STILL not completely covered by all the releases by all the companies that have produced stuff for WFRP. I think the loyalty of the players themselves, and the simplicity of the setting is its strength, being basically a fantasy analog of our world - it certainly helps me visualize and understand where things are in relation to each other, and understand the races and their typical traits and such.

For me, I like an understandable area, mythology, world and system and such that I can get a mental handle on, and WFRP provides that, like pretty much no other fantasy game I've played, with the possible exception of a Runequest version, that also used a real-world analog, but I didn't play RQ much. You add in the religions and standard nobility and royalty and then professions and then the world-specific stuff, factions, races, etc. and it is all fairly intuitive to ease into eventually. The system itself I prefer, though I have problems with some of it, because of its simplicity.

Anyone with a gripe about the low-powered characters could simply start characters in their 2nd career or something - easy enough fix, overall.

Farcaster
05-05-2010, 10:21 PM
All my group's WFRP sessions have at least 1-3 combats, but yes, they are more acute and likely to wind up putting someone out of commission for a couple of days, and we've lost a few characters
I guess my question is, does that actually make the game more fun -- particularly if you're playing the character who is now "out of commission for a couple of days?" Is the realism worth it?

fmitchell
05-06-2010, 02:52 AM
I guess my question is, does that actually make the game more fun -- particularly if you're playing the character who is now "out of commission for a couple of days?" Is the realism worth it?

Knowing that a combat could have real consequences does add more tension. Most injuries in WFRP3 won't put you out of commission, just hamper physical activity. And after all, game time isn't real time, and the GM can adjust the clock any way he wants.

On the other hand, combat in D&D, especially 4e, often feels like God Mode with more math: between Healing Surges, high hit points relative to weapon damage, and the lack of any real effects until hit points drop to 0 or below, PCs usually bounce back from one-on-one encounters fairly quickly, and only waves of attackers seem to make PCs sweat. Not to heap blame on D&D alone: Spirit of the Century characters can absorb a lot of punishment, and when our GM converted a Cthulhu module to SotC he had to scale everything up by 10 (numerically or size-wise).

Farcaster
05-06-2010, 11:33 AM
On the other hand, combat in D&D, especially 4e, often feels like God Mode with more math: between Healing Surges, high hit points relative to weapon damage, and the lack of any real effects until hit points drop to 0 or below, PCs usually bounce back from one-on-one encounters fairly quickly, and only waves of attackers seem to make PCs sweat. Not to heap blame on D&D alone...

I don't want to make this thread about the virtues or downfalls of 4e, but I will say that the idea behind the quick recovery model is more cinematic. When you're reading a novel or watching a movie, the hero may have a number of close calls and minor wounds, until at last he makes a fatal mistake and is truly in peril. Up until that last critical wound, the hero can strap a bandage on it and move on. That's how 4th edition D&D feels, and there is no reason for it to be apologetic in that regard.

The bottom line isn't believability or realism. The question is, is it fun for the players? It doesn't have to be true-to-life if the players are having fun. We are talking about fantastic worlds filled with mythical creatures after all. So, what I am asking is to look across the table at the player whose character is now debilitated and may be debilitated for the majority of a gaming session depending on the circumstances. Is that player still having fun?

fmitchell
05-06-2010, 12:38 PM
So, what I am asking is to look across the table at the player whose character is now debilitated and may be debilitated for the majority of a gaming session depending on the circumstances. Is that player still having fun?

As one of those players, I'd say yes. In our current WFRP3 game I'm not at peak performance, so I have to be clever about what I do and how I use my abilities (including combat). Then again I'm a rat-catcher, not a warrior or Troll Slayer, so my entire raison d'etre is stealth and dirty fighting (often involving a Small But Vicious Dog).

This style of play is far older than WFRP3: RuneQuest and its hit locations came out in 1977, and arguably low-level characters in previous versions of D&D ran similar risks. Whether you can lose an arm in combat or die from being careless, adding that risk makes characters think instead of charge in. Even Conan the Barbarian avoided fights when thievery would suffice.

Given that WFRP's "grim-dark" world of sudden death is popular in Europe, maybe it's an American vs. European thing: American movies have Rambo or John McLane charging in and killing people left and right, whereas Europe has Leon the Cleaner and La Femme Nikita who can die and therefore need surprise and strategy on their side. Mind, I am American, but I've always preferred the European style of fiction where anyone can die at any time, and characters use stealth, guile, and superior knowledge instead of bigger guns or swords. Luke Skywalker might have the Force (and the plot) with him, but I'm more of a fan of the Doctor, who (when Doctor Who is written right) uses some previously introduced principle or technology to defeat his enemies without firing a shot. (Granted, being a centuries-old alien from a vastly advanced civilization helps.)

BIGKILLA
05-06-2010, 06:16 PM
As one of those players, I'd say yes. In our current WFRP3 game I'm not at peak performance, so I have to be clever about what I do and how I use my abilities (including combat). Then again I'm a rat-catcher, not a warrior or Troll Slayer, so my entire raison d'etre is stealth and dirty fighting (often involving a Small But Vicious Dog).

so have you played previous versions of warhammer 1/2e? and if so how do you like 3rd e compared to them. I have recently bought all the 3rd e stuff but honestly will most likely never run/play it unless i could find someone else to run the game.(im a fanatic with gaming products to where i have to have every book and item for a specific game i enjoy even if i never plan on using/reading it)

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
05-06-2010, 06:59 PM
so have you played previous versions of warhammer 1/2e? and if so how do you like 3rd e compared to them. I have recently bought all the 3rd e stuff but honestly will most likely never run/play it unless i could find someone else to run the game.(im a fanatic with gaming products to where i have to have every book and item for a specific game i enjoy even if i never plan on using/reading it)

Move out here to Southern California, and i will run it for you, BIGKILLA.

fmitchell
05-06-2010, 07:52 PM
so have you played previous versions of warhammer 1/2e? and if so how do you like 3rd e compared to them.

Alas, I haven't actually played/run 2e, although I've read the rules. The cards and other physical aids help, compared to skill and talent names written on a character sheet. Color-coded dice pools are a little more intuitive than percentiles (halved, added to, doubled, compared to the die rolls). On the other hand, buying not only a $100 core set but $30 expansions just to play an RPG does irk me a bit.

Still, I'd like to try a 2e game for comparison. A flip through 1e, though, convinced me I don't want to try that.

jpatterson
05-07-2010, 12:30 AM
WFRP1 and 2 aren't that different IMO, which was good for folks used to one or the other. I haven't played 3 but don't like the looks or descriptions of it, but only because I think they should have done that to a NEW system and not gutted the existing one that went over a decade, dead, supported only by the fans that kept the whole name running, only to have the whole thing changed completely - that was just cold, to me, but I know it was business model stuff. Although I don't like D20 in general, I don't mind the idea of cards and dice pools or things that change up a system and make it different than WFRP or look more like other games whatever, IF I LIKE THEM and they're playable - my whole group found WFRP to be 10x more playable and fun than any D&D or D20 after 2E, it is so much more simpler and allows more freedom, for our tastes anyway, so it's our go-to system.

I think as far as "fun", it depends on your taste. You don't play CoC because you want high cinematic action, you play it because you want gritty Lovecraftian danger that could swallow you whole at any moment - the same with WFRP. You don't generally play it for the swashbuckling Drizzt/Conan idea, but a more by-the-bootstraps concept of buildup from the streets, from real people with real jobs, thrust into danger - more like some epic novel series. But like anything, it gets tiring and you DO want cinematic - WFRP certainly isn't the end-all-be-all anymore than anything else is, but overall I prefer it for a good solid simple system, though I could branch out from there to different ones depending on the tone I was going for.

MortonStromgal
05-17-2010, 10:33 PM
I guess my question is, does that actually make the game more fun -- particularly if you're playing the character who is now "out of commission for a couple of days?" Is the realism worth it?


For me yes. I like games where if I draw steel or a gun someone is going to die and it may be me. The risk makes it a bigger reward when you win. I like it when my choice is a gamble and my actions have consequences that may result in my own demise. Better to burn out than to fade away. The first real campaign I played through (meaning I didn't quit because I usually got bored after a few sessions) all our characters died when our space ship had more holes than swiss cheese, we were out of ammo and low on life support. I'll never forget after the enemy armada had been mostly defeated the GM turned to our PC captain and said "What do you do" he took a minute and looked at the rest of us then back at the GM and said "Ramming Speed!" the rest of us all glance and each other and in unison (or close to it) said "aye captain" and we gave that enemy command ship everything we had left. After that session I was hooked on roleplaying and it became a hobby.


[edit] For example in my Thursday Desolation game I'm playing a roman centurion more or less and my bad equivalent is WAY better than me! I throw 10 dice to his 18 dice, but I'm the tank of the group so in the big fight I was toe to toe with him and some regular soldiers (who had 8 dice btw) but I held my ground and kept them at bay while the spellcasters threw down. Eventually they got him down where I could coup de gras him but I knew all he needed was a good roll on his 18 dice and I was dead. Heck average rolls hurt but I can take a couple of those before dropping. I also knew I couldn't hurt him unless I got really lucky but I knew the spellcasters could make quick work of him so I charged in and took all the attacks I could draw hoping I could just stay up long enough for the spellcasters to work their magic. It worked out, then my wounded bum charged into the fray of their spellcasters. Today I won, but if my dice had failed me at any point I was going to die, which made the victory all that sweeter

KenM
05-19-2010, 07:05 PM
I am thinking about picking this up. I tryed 4th ed and me and my group hated it. We are playing Pathfinder now. This looks different and fresh. Not that I will give up on Pathfinder. After watching the videos, I like the mechanics of what they are doing with WFRP 3rd. I have not played earlier versons of WFRPG but I am familliar with the setting and have played 40K back in the day.

But I do have a coupel of questions for those that have it:
1. I saw it comes with 30 classes and 4 races. Can any race be any class? Or are there restrictions?

2. If someone hates DnD 4th ed, but likes 3.5/ Pathfinder, how do you think they will like this as a change of pace? I want to run this when we have a night when our full group does not show up.

BIGKILLA
05-20-2010, 03:02 AM
I am thinking about picking this up. I tryed 4th ed and me and my group hated it. We are playing Pathfinder now. This looks different and fresh. Not that I will give up on Pathfinder. After watching the videos, I like the mechanics of what they are doing with WFRP 3rd. I have not played earlier versons of WFRPG but I am familliar with the setting and have played 40K back in the day.

But I do have a coupel of questions for those that have it:
1. I saw it comes with 30 classes and 4 races. Can any race be any class? Or are there restrictions?

2. If someone hates DnD 4th ed, but likes 3.5/ Pathfinder, how do you think they will like this as a change of pace? I want to run this when we have a night when our full group does not show up.

Some classes/careers are restricted to certain races.

I have all the 3rd ed. stuff but haven't even read it yet as I'm on a Pathfinder binge right now so I can't answer #2

jpatterson
05-20-2010, 04:46 AM
I think people used to D20 in any flavor are going to find the mechanics of WFRP 1 or 2 take some getting used to.

I haven't played 3rd Edition of WFRP but I know it is also dice pool and uses stunt dice and such so isn't D20 and is also not not the previous traditional WFRP percentile system either.

Unless things have changed a lot with WFRP3, the main thing to realize is WFRP is a skill/stat-based system, there are no levels, so you have to use XP (which are handed out for objectives (50XP for destroying the Dark Shade Wyvern harassing the town) to "buy" all your advancements to "level up" your character, to advance through a career, and you have to obtain the proper advances in order to "complete" a career, in order for others to open up to you, or at least that's how it was with pre-3.

MortonStromgal
05-21-2010, 09:36 PM
Well D&D 4e and WFRP 3e have very similar design goals but the result is different so it will depend on if you like the ideas behind 4e or not. If you want D&D 4e without the counting squares and fighting over little details but like the idea of having a mini and power cards your going to love WFRP 3e. You don't have to use the minis or cards in WFRP 3e but it does have them so you dont have to look things up in the rules constanly and you can take them away if you have a good handle on what you can do. The only improvements in my mind is they unified the mechanics and cleaned up the XP system in WFRP 3e. Otherwise I prefer 2e. 2e is better if your looking for simple and roleplaying without being interested in minis (they had mini rules in 2e but it was more like a side bar than some solid rules). It really depends on what your looking for for your game. 3e is not bad it just is designed with euro board gamers in mind.

Lord Soth
05-22-2010, 01:39 PM
Having gotten the boxed set and given it a go, i can say that FFG has introduced some remarkable changes into the system. Conservative and agressive stances are remarkably easy to reconfigure into combat, as well as magic. The separate books provided for players, GM's, clerics and wizards are fantastic. As well as maintaining a high number of playable classes. The only problem is the number of components the box contains. It was a stroke of inspriation to design a game, with capabilities for quick skirmish, and/or prolonged campaigns in addition to the fact that one set equals one group as opposed to everyone purchasing their own gaming materials. That being said, it becomes a double edged sword, when someone needs to reference material, but someone else owns the box...long shot hypothetical, but one that warrants attention. The only sticking point i see, other than the number of bits to keep up with, is learning the dice symbols. It takes some time, but it becomes easier the more you play. Its a good system, worth a try for any fan, and don't let the price get you down...you'll be pleasantly surprised. :biggrin:

BIGKILLA
05-22-2010, 10:29 PM
Having gotten the boxed set and given it a go, i can say that FFG has introduced some remarkable changes into the system. Conservative and agressive stances are remarkably easy to reconfigure into combat, as well as magic. The separate books provided for players, GM's, clerics and wizards are fantastic. As well as maintaining a high number of playable classes. The only problem is the number of components the box contains. It was a stroke of inspriation to design a game, with capabilities for quick skirmish, and/or prolonged campaigns in addition to the fact that one set equals one group as opposed to everyone purchasing their own gaming materials. That being said, it becomes a double edged sword, when someone needs to reference material, but someone else owns the box...long shot hypothetical, but one that warrants attention. The only sticking point i see, other than the number of bits to keep up with, is learning the dice symbols. It takes some time, but it becomes easier the more you play. Its a good system, worth a try for any fan, and don't let the price get you down...you'll be pleasantly surprised. :biggrin:

I got my copy from ebay for I believe 35$(it was used but none of the pieces were punched and it was 100% complete) Ive seen it go for under 50$ many times, you just need to know how to look and look alot, I also purchased 2 sets of extra dice for 8$ each and the players toolkit for 24$ and the new campaign Gathering Storm for 24$, not to shabby for the quality and amount of stuff you get with it.

BBPlainwell
05-28-2010, 03:52 AM
For those who have had the 3e box set for a bit now, how do you feel that the play aids have held up. I am think about getting this to run some one offs at our meetups for when we need an overflow table, but I am concerned about the durability of the components.

BIGKILLA
05-28-2010, 03:49 PM
For those who have had the 3e box set for a bit now, how do you feel that the play aids have held up. I am think about getting this to run some one offs at our meetups for when we need an overflow table, but I am concerned about the durability of the components.

I haven't actually played with them yet but the components seems pretty durable to me.

misterecho
06-26-2010, 04:51 PM
Everyone in our group plays wargames and roleplaying games. Only one of us had played WHFRP. He ranted and raved about how awesome it was, but we never got round to playing it. When FFG released 3rd edition we all chipped in and got the boxset. We're all very excited about starting after we finish our sci fi and supers campaigns. Apparently Pete's going to convert an old whfrp campaign called "The enemy within". He's hyping this game up way more than usual so i'm expecting great things. :)

BIGKILLA
06-27-2010, 01:11 AM
Everyone in our group plays wargames and roleplaying games. Only one of us had played WHFRP. He ranted and raved about how awesome it was, but we never got round to playing it. When FFG released 3rd edition we all chipped in and got the boxset. We're all very excited about starting after we finish our sci fi and supers campaigns. Apparently Pete's going to convert an old whfrp campaign called "The enemy within". He's hyping this game up way more than usual so i'm expecting great things. :)


Enemy within is considered by a lot of people in the gaming industry as the best fantasy rpg campaign to date. And a very good representation of the warhammer world.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
06-27-2010, 07:56 AM
I love running The Enemy Within. A great campaign, no question about it.

MortonStromgal
06-27-2010, 12:33 PM
2. If someone hates DnD 4th ed, but likes 3.5/ Pathfinder, how do you think they will like this as a change of pace? I want to run this when we have a night when our full group does not show up.

In my experience for WFRP 1e/2e most D&D 3.X players liked it ok and some loved it. 3e well I haven't played it yet but I think its going to remind them a lot of D&D 4e when its not really like that. The problem you run into with WRFP 3e is the books are incomplete. The classes are on cards, combat actions are on cards, the traits are on the cards... So basically in order to understand WtF some of the rules are talking about you have to find the cards are read through them WHILE your reading through the rule book. Had fantasy flight chosen to make the rule books complete and had the card included (just like they included, dice) It would have not scared off the RPG players. I still have no idea who their target audience is with this game and I'm not sure if I ever run it if my group will love it or hate it. Its like playing Dread or some other wacky indie rpg only it has all these board game pieces and then very abstract indie combat/skill rolls with tons of little tokens and marker you set up. Then add condition cards and powers like D&D 4e/Magic/etc... just bizzar

emirikol
07-02-2010, 11:47 AM
Patterson, great for showing that stuff!

Webhead
08-03-2010, 11:59 PM
Knowing that a combat could have real consequences does add more tension...

...Given that WFRP's "grim-dark" world of sudden death is popular in Europe, maybe it's an American vs. European thing: American movies have Rambo or John McLane charging in and killing people left and right, whereas Europe has Leon the Cleaner and La Femme Nikita who can die and therefore need surprise and strategy on their side. Mind, I am American, but I've always preferred the European style of fiction where anyone can die at any time, and characters use stealth, guile, and superior knowledge instead of bigger guns or swords.

This speaks to one of the reasons I find WFRP so appealing and I would agree that increasing the tension of that "risk" consequently makes the game feel more exciting and rewarding. If I don't feel like my character has anything to lose from failure, it diminishes the satisfaction of his trials. What's the point of heroism if there's no self-sacrifice to be made?

To use a somewhat stereotypical example, that's what (on the very rare occasion when he's written well) makes Superman the world's greatest hero. It's not because he can lift mountains or break the sound-barrier or melt tanks with heat vision. Those things are meaningless unto themselves. It's because Superman, for all his power, would willingly give his life to save another. Without any sense of risk, Superman becomes boring, predictable and insignificant. But put him in a situation where it may cost his very life in order to stand up for his beliefs...now that's exciting!

fmitchell
08-04-2010, 06:23 AM
I'd compare WFRP characters to Batman, or the characters in Watchmen except Dr. Manhattan. Ultimately they're mortal men with advanced training, sufficient resources, and/or a major psychosis, trying to do what they think is right. Also, like the Watchmen, WFRP heroes get little thanks and in some cases active persecution because they follow their own way instead of the established social order. ("They banished the daemons ... with magic! Burn the witch!")

emirikol
08-04-2010, 09:32 AM
We've run the numbers a few times and the irony is that a WFRP3 character is about as statistically powerful as a 4th or 5th level D&D (3rd edition) character. (toughness soak vs. escalating hit points all come out in the wash).

I found this ironic considering WFRP characters are always called "mooks." Perhaps in 2e they were a bit more.

jh

Webhead
08-04-2010, 07:33 PM
I'd compare WFRP characters to Batman, or the characters in Watchmen except Dr. Manhattan. Ultimately they're mortal men with advanced training, sufficient resources, and/or a major psychosis, trying to do what they think is right. Also, like the Watchmen, WFRP heroes get little thanks and in some cases active persecution because they follow their own way instead of the established social order. ("They banished the daemons ... with magic! Burn the witch!")

Aye. Good analogy. I am also a fan of Watchmen.


We've run the numbers a few times and the irony is that a WFRP3 character is about as statistically powerful as a 4th or 5th level D&D (3rd edition) character. (toughness soak vs. escalating hit points all come out in the wash).

I found this ironic considering WFRP characters are always called "mooks." Perhaps in 2e they were a bit more.

Yes, at least in terms of raw probabilities and available powers/talents/tactics, WFRP3 characters are a good bit more "capable" than those of previous editions. Actually, the dice probabilities inherent in WFRP3 are rather generously in favor of the "acting character" (i.e. whoever is initiating the action and, thus, rolling the dice). Also, as 3E is essentially a point-allocation system (whereas 2E is not) it is much easier to min/max (or at least *focus* your character's competence) which means that you can hone your abilities toward your goals as a player.

My experience hasn't been such that I would consider a starting WFRP3 PC more powerful or capable than a starting D&D4E PC. I've witnessed a starting PC humbled by a single, solid attack by an ungor beastman (low-level mook) which is something I've not seen happen in D&D4E, even with a critical hit. But, yeah...the right kind of PC in WFRP3 (like a min/maxed Troll Slayer...yeah, there had one of those in my party) can be quite a brutal, efficient and resilient slaughter-machine.

jpatterson
08-04-2010, 10:31 PM
I am not surprised by this but in a way, I'm not altogether sure I disapprove of starting characters being more capable than previous versions of WFRP - though I'm not sure about them being as capable as 4th+ level D&D chars, that seems a bit dramatic, but if that's what you say, I'll bow to your assessment.

I myself am a fan of cinematic action, and rules-lite, with enough structure to provide solid adjudication via workable and reasonable mechanics - so whatever fits those bills are likely to be very popular with me.

I'm in favor of WFRP chars being a bit better versed at doing things now, rather than the typical 30-40%, which meant whatever they were trying to do usually wound up in failure a lot for the first few sessions, which meant wasting a LOT of playing time, unnecessarily. That part I honestly did NOT like and I do not agree with the idea of "it means something significant for my character to pull himself up by his bootstraps and be totally at the mercy of whatever slightly better opponent might attack me" etc. I want to play a game to have SOME competence. True I want to take a character from "nobody" to "somebody", from "how do I shot web?" to "unhand that kitten or I will blow a hole in your ceiling!", but that doesn't mean I want my character to start at "which end of the dagger do I put in the bad guy - the pointy end?" I think the careers were a mess, way too many, could have been really streamlined into far fewer and given specialties and groups with "electives", allowing you to differentiate different careers but using almost all the same skill sets and trappings, etc. The original 1-2nd editions really suffer from bloat and a proper 3rd edition could have really done an appropriate job of making is sleek and updating it to current styles in play and gaming, without gutting the whole thing. In fact... hmmm...

Webhead
08-04-2010, 11:39 PM
I myself am a fan of cinematic action, and rules-lite, with enough structure to provide solid adjudication via workable and reasonable mechanics - so whatever fits those bills are likely to be very popular with me...

As am I in a general sense. Variety is the spice of life, so I have a wide spectrum of games and systems that I like for various reasons but I generally favor games with simpler mechanics that at least put some degree of control in the hands of the players.


...I think the careers were a mess, way too many, could have been really streamlined into far fewer and given specialties and groups with "electives", allowing you to differentiate different careers but using almost all the same skill sets and trappings, etc...

Contrary to my general "simplicity-is-best" instincts, I've found that the way the Career system is present (in all editions of WFRP) is actually much more inspirational and evocative for me than a more generalized system would be. This sentiment goes all the way back to AD&D 2E and my very favorite aspect of that system: "Kits". The idea behind a "Kit" was that it gave you inspiration for how to turn "yet-another-1st-level-Human-Fighter" into a Swashbuckler, or a Gladiator, or a Mounted-Knight. There's something so much more interesting inherent in rolling up a "Smuggler" as opposed to just a "Rogue" and I find it gives me cues as a player about how to approach the characters background, motivations, life-styles and personality.

Yeah, careers in 2E can be somewhat prescriptive in the direction they take you (not much moreso than D&D classes, I would argue) but the beauty is that your character can always pursue other careers if they desire.

jpatterson
08-06-2010, 12:03 PM
Well see that's what I'm getting at. I'm not saying careers should be boiled down into 4 or 6, but into whatever the obvious essentials are, maybe 10 or 12-15, even 20, I don't recall offhand, but everything else would be sub-types, and could be described and suggested as differentiated "kits" like you're talking about, within those, rather than having them be entirely individual ones, that really don't need their own listings, when they're barely little more than a copy of one (or more) already existing careers with different names but most of the same stats, skills and trappings.

Just present players with the flavor and theme of the alternate kit, maybe some different options for skills/trappings and they can make their choices, without having to have a "Carcoal Burner", a "Town Crier", an "Artisan", etc. - you take "Peasant" and specialize in something and viola, you've got a whole retinue of townsfolk available all in one Career - the more physical sub-types could have advances in Str or Tgh, etc. You could fit dozens more careers in the book than there are even now but still leave a much smaller, more succinct career section, with more variable and deep career templates.

To me, that's what I feel like they should have done, and lot of the peripheral careers, even ones I've played, are just fluff that have no business being true game careers, from a mechanics standpoint. Keep the mechanics and system simple and straight-forward and work your clever color and humor into it to support it, don't try to squeeze character mechanics into your witty and historical setting-specific characters.

Webhead
08-06-2010, 10:46 PM
I can see your point and, indeed, that may be a slightly simpler way to organize the "Career" system.

Still, it's never proven to be distracting to me as-is and, as I said, actually tends to be inspiring. But then, one of the appeals of Warhammer to me is the idea that one might play a character of rather humble stature (Charcoal-Burner, Rat Catcher or Bone-Picker for example) who goes on to experience and achieve impressive things. Perhaps it's the idea that these types might find themselves in the company of the likes of Troll Slayers and Apprentice Wizards and are suddenly thrust into a life beyond anything they could have anticipated for themselves. But I like playing the more "epic" Careers as well (fond of Sigmarite Priests, Bright Wizards and Troll Slayers)! It's nice to mix-and-match.

Fersboo
08-09-2010, 01:11 PM
I first was introduced to WHFRP back in the late 80s and I've loved it in both the 1E and 2E formats. I've not seen the 3E set outside of its box (a bit pricey, no?), so I'll reserve judgement. My only problem with WHFRP is finding someone to play it with and lack of support from GW. Here in the Baltimore area, home of the GW North American HQ, when I walk into a GW shoppe and look for WHFP products or find players I usually get blank stares for a reply.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
08-09-2010, 02:14 PM
Yep, i agree, Fersboo. Seems the younger crowd isn't all that impressed with WFRP. Seems superhero dnd and the like is the flavor of the decade... unfortunately.

MortonStromgal
08-11-2010, 10:05 AM
I would say thats from WOTC pimping it. If Twilight the RPG came out I'm sure it would give D&D a run for its money. Heck doesn't even have to have sparkels just re-release a White-Wolf vampire game only have daylight not harm the Vampires so as to be more inline with Twilight/True Blood etc plus it would make cross-overs really possible.

Psyckosama
08-21-2010, 09:13 AM
I despise WFRP3ed and honestly hope its a financial failure. I own literally everything for 2ed and damned near everything for first, but I will not be paying a red cent on what amounts to "Warhammer Quest 2ed"

Webhead
08-25-2010, 12:27 AM
I despise WFRP3ed and honestly hope its a financial failure. I own literally everything for 2ed and damned near everything for first, but I will not be paying a red cent on what amounts to "Warhammer Quest 2ed"

While I have my own issues with WFRP3E and have more-or-less decided that I won't continue pursuing the game line, I don't agree with the comparison to Warhammer Quest. Say what you will about the game but it is definately an RPG and not simply an "RPG-like board game". I hear the analogy made often but I just haven't seen the justification or support for the sentiment.

2E is my favorite edition but 3E has some good ideas (and some that don't quite work).

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
08-25-2010, 01:16 AM
Own everything WFRP 1E&2E. Heard that 3E has some good ideas, but other than that, it's not worth a dime.

Psyckosama
08-25-2010, 08:36 AM
Best case scenario is that 3rd edition is a total bomb and kills the line for the time being, so someone else (like Green Ronin) can pick the lisence up and republish the system that was managing to run 2nd place with D&D for most popular fantasy roleplaying game... that being 2ed.

Fersboo
08-25-2010, 08:51 AM
I'm getting ready to start a new 2E game online using Fantasy Grounds II, a virtual tabletop (VTT). The recruit link is here (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13070). For a few screenshots of what FG2 looks like, try here (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/screenshots/).

BIGKILLA
08-25-2010, 08:36 PM
ORLY? Depending on the time I would definitely be interested in this game. I am buying FGII at the beginning of next month to start playing in a 4E game. If you have the room and my time slots fit let me know VanceludemannAThotmail.com

I currently play in games .
Monday 9PM to 12PM EST 4E player
Wednesday 3PM -10PM EST Pathfinder player
Friday 7PM EST to quit Pathfinder GM
Saturday not set yet 4E player
Sunday 4Pm -11PM EST Pathfinder GM

Fersboo
08-26-2010, 09:01 AM
ORLY? Depending on the time I would definitely be interested in this game. I am buying FGII at the beginning of next month to start playing in a 4E game. If you have the room and my time slots fit let me know VanceludemannAThotmail.com

I currently play in games .
Monday 9PM to 12PM EST 4E player
Wednesday 3PM -10PM EST Pathfinder player
Friday 7PM EST to quit Pathfinder GM
Saturday not set yet 4E player
Sunday 4Pm -11PM EST Pathfinder GM

We have not set a time/day of the week yet, but I'm looking for late evening [EST] during the week. Be forewarned, I'm still new to FGII so it may be a work in progress type of game until everyone gets up to speed on how to use FGII, but so far as a player, I haven't found it to be too difficult.

Fersboo
09-07-2010, 09:11 AM
I've got 1 and I'll be doing chargen for 1 or 2 tonight. We'll be beginning September 8th @ 9pm EST. Wednesdays will not necessarily be the day, but it is a good start point until I can confirm when/how often we want to play.