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The Magic King
03-09-2010, 09:53 AM
Just as the title says. I have yet to meet someone whose favorite race was the gnome.

Zugh
03-09-2010, 09:59 AM
The Gnome is not my favorite race, I'm going to admit. But they aren't useless. I hear they make good Bards. But I wouldn't know. Everyone I play with hates Gnomes.

The Magic King
03-09-2010, 10:31 AM
See, everybody hates gnomes. I think it is because Dwarves are cooler and halflings are more likable.

outrider
03-09-2010, 10:48 AM
not everybody. I happen to like gnomes and use them quite often in my campaigns. Halflings are the hated race with my groupl

The Magic King
03-09-2010, 10:51 AM
What's there to hate about the lovable hobbi.. I mean halfling. Boy, nearly got sued there.

Spazzle
03-09-2010, 10:52 AM
I like gnomes - and most of the folks I play with are the same. We don't really hate any particular race. The closest we come to are Drow/Shadar Kai - but that's not really hate. We just tend to roll our eyes a bit with all the "dark/edgy/anti hero" cliches they engender.

The Magic King
03-09-2010, 10:59 AM
Who plays a Drow as a hero? Anytime I have been that race it was to be self serving,then again I am always self serving. I typically pick either chaotic neutral or neutral evil. I have NEVER been good, it is just so stupid.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-09-2010, 03:21 PM
I love love love Gnomes and Hobbits. You just have to have the right background description for their respective races.

A Drow as a hero? Drizzt has already been done. I hate Drizzt. Unless you are talking about a hero to the Drow races, or antihero to the rest of us. Then in that case, it is a-okay with me.

I also play N, NE, CN, CE, and sometimes LN, or LE. Why play anything else.

Riftwalker
03-09-2010, 06:01 PM
I like gnomes, though I tend to prefer renderings that emphasize their fey aspects rather than others (such as them being mechanical tinkerers).

In one of my favorite campaign settings, they are feared even by the giants for their innate understanding of the magic inherent in the world. They have so much power at their disposal, and yet they simply don't care to use it, not viewing it as a tool.

Farcaster
03-09-2010, 06:21 PM
I suppose I could take them or leave them as far as using them in my games or playing them. One of my players from a group long past, however, was in love with playing gnomes. And honestly, they do have some interesting personalities to work with that brings something different and interesting to the table, just as all the races have their eccentricities.

cigamnogard
03-09-2010, 07:48 PM
I have played two gnomes - and liked them both. Both survived their campaigns and have been emersed into NPCs as I now GM/DM.
Note - I have only played one human.

Arkhemedes
03-09-2010, 09:54 PM
Gnomes have never been one of my favorite races. However, I do know players who enjoy playing them. I was forced to play a gnome once by a DM friend who wanted to make all of the characters and assign them to the players. I was not at all crazy about it at first. But I did have fun with the character and in time, he got to be pretty powerful.

russdm
03-09-2010, 10:01 PM
I don't like gnomes because they cover ground already owned by elves, dwarves, and halflings. I also find them not very interesting either. I like Kobolds, since they are hard-working. Gnomes are like the grasshopper in that parable by aesop with kobolds as the ants.

I find the gnomes of dragonlance to be interesting and curious. They are unique, but players don't like the technological bit.

I find gnomes to a race that is not really needed in my games in my opinion. I dont think i will ever play a gnome character. I frankly dont want to.

yukonhorror
03-10-2010, 07:22 AM
I had a friend who pretty much ALWAYS played a gnome. Mainly because he liked the illusionist class (I am talking about 1st edition, even though this is a 3.x discussion) and the illusionist was always too weak to be just an illusionist, so he always opted for multi-classing and the only race allowed to do that was the gnome.

Whoever said it, yeah, never saw a halfling in our group. Always a gnome.

I don't like what 4e has done with the gnomes, but I'll live. In my game, I change the flavor so they are more like 1st ed. gnomes and mechanically like 3rd edition (specifically a +2 to CON and a +2 to either int or cha).

But what's not to love about pranksters. To me, that is the gnome - prankster.

WhiteTiger
03-10-2010, 11:37 AM
I don't hate gnomes but I don't play them either. they are pretty popular in the Pathfinder/Golarion setting and they make great bards & sorcerers.

cplmac
03-10-2010, 05:54 PM
Actually, for my Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth campaign, one of the new charcters being added is a Gnome Cleric.

rabkala
03-10-2010, 08:46 PM
Gnomes are good with an orange sauce and a side of rice....

Come on, gnomes are the most pathetic after thought of D&D. I despise them as much as I despise illusionists! Why not just kill them all in a mass genocide and create a decent race?

Gnomes do not deserve monster status either! They are worse than kobolds in every way! They are written as idiots in most worlds for a reason. Tinker this you bastard Gnome, DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ummm, ya I don't like them sam I am.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-10-2010, 08:59 PM
I've always wanted to play an all gnome party, preferrable in WFRP. Of course, in WFRP, magic can be allowed with said race - and will be, thanks to me, the DM.

russdm
03-10-2010, 09:09 PM
From my reading of the gnome entry stuff in the PHB and the races of stone book, it appears that gnomes are really only about being pranksters. Every other part of their niche is held by either dwarves, elves, halflings. and Halflings can do pranksters better than gnomes anyway.

One thing the gnome can do is talk to burrowing mammels, and be illusionist/bard types. Not a very compelling thing for me. I usually either want to be a melee type or an arcane spellcaster like sorceror or wizard so gnomes really strike me as worth playing.

just more of my two gold pieces...

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-10-2010, 10:36 PM
I choose to use the WFRP description of gnomes, both for WFRP, which goes w/o saying, but with my dnd games as well. When i find my souce-description in all my 1000's of books, i'll be sure to list said description here. All i ask is that all you gnome-haters hold final judgement until reading said description. It is my belief that you will be pleasantly surprised to find that there truly is a place for gnomes in your campaign worlds.

Webhead
03-10-2010, 11:07 PM
In D&D 3.X Editions, Gnomes were my favorite character race. My all-time favorite D&D character happened to be a gnome (Barbarian/Wizard/Spellsword to be precise).

Prior to the slight revamp that 3E did, yeah...I pretty much ignored gnomes. But there was something subtle about the way they were presented differently in 3E that made them stand out to me (I'm talking strictly PHB and Hero Builder's Guide here...I've not read Races of Stone or any of the other later D&D stuff).

I've already covered in other threads why Gnomes make better Barbarians and Fighters than Half-Orcs do...

russdm
03-10-2010, 11:15 PM
Gnomes make better Barbarians and Fighters than Half-Orcs do...

How does taht work? Don't Gnomes get a minus to strength as one of their ability modifiers?

TheYeti1775
03-11-2010, 08:00 AM
One of my funniest 3.5 characters was a Forgotten Realms Deep Gnome Fighter.
Just straight up Fighter with a 6 Charisma. Strong as a Gnome could be, and fairly simple (avg Int/Wis).
Played him as a Drunkard.

He was fun as heck.
Very dangerous once he got a hold of a Belt of Giant Strength.

Gregora
03-11-2010, 09:56 AM
I love my gnome characters! I have a level 46 gnome that has entered into a homebrew prestige class that emphasises the mechanical part of the gnomes. I find them to be one of the most interesting races from having multiple names and changing them frequently to their natural curiosity their so much fun to rp once your into it.

The Magic King
03-11-2010, 11:25 AM
"It is my belief that you will be pleasantly surprised to find that there truly is a place for gnomes in your campaign worlds."
- Arch Lich Thoth-Amon

Very well, present their defense and I shall hope to be pleasantly surprised. However, should I find it unsatisfactory know that you have failed in your quest to save the species and they shall be wiped from my campaign.

russdm
03-11-2010, 04:55 PM
you have failed in your quest to save the species and they shall be wiped from my campaign.


The gnomes perished in my campaign before it even started, i just didnt have them be present anyway.

cigamnogard
03-11-2010, 05:18 PM
You must have really high Hotel rates.:lol:

tesral
03-12-2010, 08:51 AM
Gnomes have a place. In the current iteration Gnomes are fairly important.

The deal was to give them a niche that other races did not have. In my case they are the Crafters. Yes, Dwarves are known as smiths, but Gnomes do anything. Anything more complex than a simple machine is likely best of gnome made.

They get played about as often as other races. Last one was last cycle a female Gnome magician that was avoiding her family's effort to get her married.

cigamnogard
03-12-2010, 03:09 PM
They get played about as often as other races. Last one was last cycle a female Gnome magician that was avoiding her family's effort to get her married.
Now that is an approach I have not heard of a PC taking - interesting.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-12-2010, 03:22 PM
I haven't forgotten to list my gnome material, everyone. I'll make a effort to find my source material this weekend.

cigamnogard
03-12-2010, 03:36 PM
So, I guess the answer(s) is in - quite a few people like gnomes and do play them.
Myself included.

tesral
03-13-2010, 01:10 AM
Gnomes AISI suffer two image problems. First was Core AD&D that had nothing to say and said it REALLY LOUD! Second was Dragonlance which made Gnomes a joke.,

Neither gave anyone much reason to play Gnomes or to want to.

The Magic King
03-13-2010, 01:14 PM
Gnomes AISI suffer two image problems. First was Core AD&D that had nothing to say and said it REALLY LOUD! Second was Dragonlance which made Gnomes a joke.,

Neither gave anyone much reason to play Gnomes or to want to.


Yes, yes a thousand times yes!

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-13-2010, 01:23 PM
Agreed!

The Magic King
03-13-2010, 01:40 PM
Agreed!


You aren't off the hook yet!
Make me appreciate them or know you have let them die!

tesral
03-13-2010, 02:09 PM
You aren't off the hook yet!
Make me appreciate them or know you have let them die!


Gnomes in Thindacarulle (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6620)-- A Pen and Paper thread

The Magic King
03-13-2010, 02:24 PM
Gnomes in Thindacarulle (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6620)-- A Pen and Paper thread


Man! Why must you assist Thoth in staving off an unjust sentence?

tesral
03-13-2010, 04:37 PM
Man! Why must you assist Thoth in staving off an unjust sentence?

It is what I do.

cplmac
03-15-2010, 07:01 PM
Man! Why must you assist Thoth in staving off an unjust sentence?


That's what happens when you are dealing with an Arch Lich and a Quasi-Deity.

cigamnogard
03-15-2010, 07:14 PM
That's what happens when you are dealing with an Arch Lich and a Quasi-Deity.
:cool:

Slipstream
03-19-2010, 10:24 PM
I loved my gnome rogue in WoW. I RP'd him up as much as possible, even in a non-RP server.

I also rolled him up in 3.5, but never got to play him.

There's no need to hate. At least they aren't Drow!

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-19-2010, 10:46 PM
At least they aren't Drow!

I've cast POWER WORD KILL for less reason, so tread lightly, Slipstream.

BTW, for all you gamers out there that dislike Drow but have yet to find a suitable race to replace them in the Underdark, might i suggest Skaven (a WFRP race). Trust the wisdom of Almighty Thoth, and introduce them into your games.

I'll get back on when i get home and list the source book you'll all want to aquire.

Webhead
03-20-2010, 12:17 AM
BTW, for all you gamers out there that dislike Drow but have yet to find a suitable race to replace them in the Underdark, might i suggest Skaven (a WFRP race). Trust the wisdom of Almighty Thoth, and introduce them into your games.

Never liked the Drow. Probably one of the many things that contributed to my dislike of Forgotten Realms.

Now, Skaven...that's a different story. I love those guys!

I prefer WFRP's Dark Elves (who aren't actually dark-skinned, thank Sigmar) or Mystara's Shadow Elves to anything resembling Drow. I tend to exclude their existence in my games the way many people seem to prefer excluding Gnomes.

Back on the subject of Gnomes, I had a campaign idea once several years ago about a D&D adventure series set in a world where the only remaining "playable" humanoids were all variants of Gnome (aquatic gnome, desert gnome, river gnome, etc.). The structure of the campaign was that the PCs would end up traveling the world, searching through the remains of ancient civilizations, trying to figure out why all the other races (humans, elves, dwarves and halflings) were now extinct and why it was that Gnomes survived. Like so many other hundreds of campaign ideas, it never did see the light of day.

tesral
03-20-2010, 12:34 AM
First thing I did to Drow, or Moraquendi as they are properly called. was get rid of the black skin. Moraquendi are clear and, do not have super cool powers. And anyone that wants to can play one until sunrise.

Did I mention they are nearly clear?

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-20-2010, 12:59 AM
Never liked the Drow. Probably one of the many things that contributed to my dislike of Forgotten Realms.

Now, Skaven...that's a different story. I love those guys!

I prefer WFRP's Dark Elves (who aren't actually dark-skinned, thank Sigmar) or Mystara's Shadow Elves to anything resembling Drow. I tend to exclude their existence in my games the way many people seem to prefer excluding Gnomes.

Back on the subject of Gnomes, I had a campaign idea once several years ago about a D&D adventure series set in a world where the only remaining "playable" humanoids were all variants of Gnome (aquatic gnome, desert gnome, river gnome, etc.). The structure of the campaign was that the PCs would end up traveling the world, searching through the remains of ancient civilizations, trying to figure out why all the other races (humans, elves, dwarves and halflings) were now extinct and why it was that Gnomes survived. Like so many other hundreds of campaign ideas, it never did see the light of day.

Oh you so need to revisit that campaign idea, Webhead. I'd love to read it and play it. Any encouragement i can give you to brush off the dust and continue designing said campaign, let me know.


First thing I did to Drow, or Moraquendi as they are properly called. was get rid of the black skin. Moraquendi are clear and, do not have super cool powers. And anyone that wants to can play one until sunrise.

Did I mention they are nearly clear?

Now there's an interesting idea. Tell me more, tesral.

d-_-b
03-20-2010, 04:47 AM
I must admit that I actually prefer gnomes to haflings roleplaying wise, eventhough I find their +2 Constitution, –2 Strength a bit difficult to work with. The problem with he gnome race is that while its preferred class is presumably bard its abilities does not really make it a preferred choice for any role/class.

On the subject of Drow: I like them just the way they are and my players will NEVER NEVER NEVER be allowed to play one. Abilities aside I have never heard of a drow character that was not played as if he/she was afflicted with teen angst. "-ooh, I don't fit in anywhere... -ooh, nobody likes me... -ooh, nobody understands me... -ooh, my parents are evil...", etc. They might as well put on some black makeup, sit down in a corner and cry.
As truly malevolent antagonists they rock.

tesral
03-20-2010, 11:41 AM
Oh you so need to revisit that campaign idea, Webhead. I'd love to read it and play it. Any encouragement i can give you to brush off the dust and continue designing said campaign, let me know.

Likewise I would encourage. Gnomes are under used and under everythinged really. The writer of Dragonlance should be flogged for their treatment of races that made then into jokes. It really did taint the whole batch.




Now there's an interesting idea. Tell me more, tesral.

I direct one ot this thread Elves in Thindacarulle (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6695) for the whole story.

"Mroquendi: The "Drow". These are the "Dark Elves". A term that many humans miss interrupt to mean "black" or "evil". This race of elves was created when a body of the Elves, lead by the returned Morchaint Mormiron in the form of Loth made war on the rest of the Elves. This violation of the First Law caused the race as one to rise against them. The lawbreakers where driven into the caves beneath the earth.

Morquendi culture is a brutalized version of the surface Elves culture. Driven by a religion that emphasized strength, and an environment that is beastly hostile. All family leaders are Matriarchs.

Long years in this dark place, called the "Womb of the Mother" by the Morquendi has altered them more than most. Morquendi average 5' 6" in height. They have larger than normal eyes that see in near total darkness. Their skin, hair, and, eyes have no pigment what so ever."


In short, cave creatures. None can abide the gaze of the Father, or the Sun as others call it. Their attributes otherwise match other Elves.

It also prevents teen angst. I have observed that people with real problem do not have angst. My prime example is "Mike" a friend of my son who was angst on wheels. Then he crashed his bike, damn near lost a foot and for the year to took to heal, no angst. So; with your skin burning off and your eyes going blind in the rays of pure daylight, you have a real problem, no angst. In order for a Morquendi to operate on the surface they have to dress like Darkman. Swathed in cloth and wearing dark goggles. It makes you rather obvious. Keeping you delicate skin from boiling away is a full time preoccupations.

d-_-b
03-20-2010, 12:01 PM
I loved the original Dragon Lance series...

tesral
03-20-2010, 02:45 PM
I've been working on the railroad, all the live long day....

Jokes made of Gnomes, partly made of Dwarves. Kender, Kender for the love of Ghodd!! Think of the children man.

There might be a good core story, but as an adventuring world? No, Dragonlance is a joke. The whole thing is built around an epic tale. So epic in fact there is little room for anything else. I'm not fond of "epic world changing stories". I prefer smaller tales where the PCs are the key. It isn't about the world or saving the world, it is about them, and maybe saving them.The problem with epic is once you tell the tale, it's told. Nothing important will ever happen to those characters again. They have done it, over, finished. Non epic adventures last longer..

Slipstream
03-21-2010, 03:23 AM
I've cast POWER WORD KILL for less reason, so tread lightly, Slipstream.

It was pure jest, Thoth. No worries. And I'm already treading lightly. I roll gnome! :P

I really can't make any educated judgment on Drow. I don't read the books, I've never played that setting.... I just read the negative comments that permeate this board and the next. I'll do better for now on. Or will I?

/cast Vanish

tesral
03-21-2010, 11:46 AM
Drow attract the munchkins. All thanks to Drizzle Diddit. Before that they were "just" 133t villain types.

However I fixed that little red wagon. Anyone that wants to play a Drow can. At least until they burn to death!

Gnomes (remember them, what the thread is about?) need to get over Dragonlance, and given a firm and useful identity. This is something I have endeavored to do.

Soft Serve
03-22-2010, 12:00 PM
I would like gnomes if they were an unplayable little monster race. (See "Redcap" from MM3.)

Otherwise they just annoy me and ever since WoW's pink mohawk gnomes I can't even begin to try to take one seriously.

Farcaster
03-22-2010, 01:23 PM
I would like gnomes if they were an unplayable little monster race. (See "Redcap" from MM3.)

Did you ever read the Demon Wars series by Salvatore? The redcaps as he presented them were pretty interesting villains.

Soft Serve
03-22-2010, 05:21 PM
Did you ever read the Demon Wars series by Salvatore? The redcaps as he presented them were pretty interesting villains.


No first time hearing it but I'll be looking it up as soon as I can since I'm an avid Redcap fan. They're the first creature I ever used to kill a PC in a game. I even steal the name for sports teams when I make them in GM modes or Franchise modes in NHL/NFL/MLB.

russdm
03-22-2010, 06:54 PM
I think the problem with drow is the same one that happens when you take an evil race and make good members from it. They (The good members) tend to always end up being really emo, or written that way. Drizzt was not very interesting to me mainly because seemed more that he was totally cool about having such terrible family. I dont think i have heard anything about him complaining about that, but he is always treated as being a whiny emo dude. Thats properly all the annoying people who play drow because of drizzt and make them whiny emo types.

I think gnomes never really had anything going for them. I liked what dragonlance did, Love dragonlance-atleast the characters there die and leave the world to others-unlike people like Elminister and the sisters and so on in FR. The gnomes had an unique place, maybe not the best of ones, but an unique place.

Gnomes to me have always seemed the biggest throw-away-able race followed by half-elves. I find myself unable to have any interest in playing gnomes or having gnomes, any kind, exist in my game worlds. I really don't need another trickster race like halflings that can yap with a mole. I have never been fond of them, too stupid, and i find them redundant in regard to other races, halflings, elves, dwarves.

I liked the tech gnomes but that really does not fit the game much.

As for a campaign where only gnomes survived....Have You Lost Your MIND!?!?!?!

tesral
03-22-2010, 07:07 PM
Remember what I said about a firm and useful identity?

Soft Serve
03-22-2010, 08:57 PM
Barbarian - Half-Orc
Bard - Half-Elf, Elf.
Cleric - Human, Dwarf
Druid - Elf, Half-Elf, Human
Fighter - Half-Orc, Human, Half-Elf, Dwarf
Monk - Human, Half-Elf
Paladin - Human, Half-Elf
Ranger - Elf, Half-Elf, Human
Rogue - Halfling, Elf, Human, Half-Elf
Sorcerer/Wizard - Human, Half-Elf, Elf

My point is every class has at least one race that is already well suited to filling the roll. The best class I can think of would have to be the Artificer (Eberron) but again, Dwarf fills the class solidly.

There is no reason you would ever, ever, ever say "I want to play (class) but I really don't want to be a gnome. Man I wish there was another awesome race to fill this slot..."

I know that same thing can be said about any other race, and it feels like I'm targeting gnomes when I'm not. I also disapprove of Halflings and Kender. Small races are the same as taking a child with you into a dungeon. However faced with Halfling vs. Gnome...I'm pulling for the halfling.

tesral
03-22-2010, 09:18 PM
Then you are missing my point about identity., It is not the class you are. It is the culture you have. Gnomes are not given a good cultural set in the canon. D&D has seldom discussed culture to any degree. Heck, the first 40 pages of my custom player's manual discusses nothing else but culture, and there is a reason for that. How will my fantasy world be set apart as different if not but for the cultures it contains?

Frankly any race can fill any professional role. I can have Half Orc wizards or even bards. The class is not the character or the race, the race is not the class, or the character. I've never considered that X race must fit Y class. I've been known as an iconoclast of the "usual view" for many a year.

If anything can be said in praise of Dragonlance it is that they did give the Gnomes a firm cultural role, abet one as dumb as a box of hammers. The one reason I think the image lasts is it is the one time Gnomes have not been "and that Gnome race over there".

As to small races being "children" in the dungeon, a bad mistake to think that way I believe. Remember it's not the size of the race in the fight, but the size of the fight in the race. The King of the Nazgul was backstabbed by a Hobbit after all. Indeed it was no man that slew him, t'was a Hobbit from the Shire.

Wikrin
03-23-2010, 12:00 AM
I was recently setting up a world in which gnomes were the major political players, standing as part of a dominant nation containing gnomes, goblins, halflings, and kobolds. Break in tradition, but I liked it. Meh.

So yeah, I like gnomes. Not my favorite race, but they're cool.

tesral
03-23-2010, 12:23 AM
Good job then. It is the task of the Game Master to pick up the slack or even throw out the given descriptions in the game books and create their own world.

Soft Serve
03-23-2010, 11:07 AM
Then you are missing my point about identity., It is not the class you are. It is the culture you have. Gnomes are not given a good cultural set in the canon. D&D has seldom discussed culture to any degree. Heck, the first 40 pages of my custom player's manual discusses nothing else but culture, and there is a reason for that. How will my fantasy world be set apart as different if not but for the cultures it contains?

Frankly any race can fill any professional role. I can have Half Orc wizards or even bards. The class is not the character or the race, the race is not the class, or the character. I've never considered that X race must fit Y class. I've been known as an iconoclast of the "usual view" for many a year.

If anything can be said in praise of Dragonlance it is that they did give the Gnomes a firm cultural role, abet one as dumb as a box of hammers. The one reason I think the image lasts is it is the one time Gnomes have not been "and that Gnome race over there".

As to small races being "children" in the dungeon, a bad mistake to think that way I believe. Remember it's not the size of the race in the fight, but the size of the fight in the race. The King of the Nazgul was backstabbed by a Hobbit after all. Indeed it was no man that slew him, t'was a Hobbit from the Shire.

I see said the blind man peeing in the wind...It's all coming back to me now.

I've never actually given gnomes a chance but I can't pull myself to do it. I'll go lightly...maybe some npcs...And Kender to me should still not exist. They are a race made almost exclusively to annoy anyone else in your party.

russdm
03-23-2010, 06:31 PM
If i never choose to use gnomes, they will be evil. I can't bring myself to even like them slightly, and i think i would only make evil gnomes to function as npcs. I have never understand their interest anyway. They were focused at being illusionists i recall. Illusionists are bleh in my opinion. I would rather blow stuff up. Then they got made bards, which is not a very useful class (I don't play bards, i prefer being in melee, or being sneaky and thievey, or blowing up stuff).

I think i find gnomes more representative of their influence: Garden Gnomes, a lawn ornament....

cigamnogard
03-24-2010, 06:21 PM
I loved the original Dragon Lance series...
You need to read more.

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------



I liked what dragonlance did, Love dragonlance-atleast the characters there die and leave the world to others-unlike people like Elminister and the sisters and so on in FR. The gnomes had an unique place, maybe not the best of ones, but an unique place.
I will give you that but again - you guys really have to read more...

Now you also have to take into account that a gnome can carry 25% more than most medium characters.

tesral
03-24-2010, 06:44 PM
The gnomes had an unique place, maybe not the best of ones, but an unique place.

Bubonic plague has a unique place in History.



You need to read more.

I don't know anyone that reads enough, myself included. However yes, the typical D&D novel is a cheap, poorly written pot billers hacked out by someone with a food habit to support. Yes, I've read a couple and count me vastly underwhelmed by the quality of the prose. I hesitate to abuse a word like "literature" in describing them. They have about the average quality of the old Doc Savage and Shadow pulps I used to read.

d-_-b
03-25-2010, 05:07 AM
You need to read more.

loved in a past tense. I read the original books by Hickman and Weis when they first came out way back when and I have many a fond childhood memory thereof. I had just started dabbling in D&D a few years earlier and it was just the kind of books I needed. I have not revisited the series since but I'm guessing that if I read them now I would probably be a little nostalgic as well as struck by the utter simplicity of the plot and execution.

Obviously the Dragonlance series were intended for a less mature audience, e.g. children. In that regard IMO they are excellent. They are not exactly up to par with the works of Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay.

BTW if you have not read the Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay do so immediately!

cigamnogard
03-25-2010, 06:31 PM
BTW if you have not read the Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay do so immediately!

No! Never heard of him - but thank you I will check him out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fionavar_Tapestry

Hmmmm...looks good!

TaliesinNYC
03-31-2010, 09:45 AM
One of my players said it best:


"It never surprises me where you can find a gnome, they're like the cockroaches of the civilized world."

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-31-2010, 09:51 AM
That's funny in that all the races in both dnd and wfrp find that to be true with humans.

kamikaze616
03-31-2010, 10:21 AM
1) When we were 14, my friend and I played D&D with a weird neighbor kid who was in one of his classes. My friend played a drow ranger with 2 scimitars. When that kid got grounded we started our own campaign, and he played a drow ranger with 2 scimitars again. Later on we had a campaign where I begged him not to play another drow or ranger, so he made an elf fighter . . . with 2 scimitars.

When I played a drow once, it was in Eberron where they were the former slaves of the giant empire and living in the wilds. I had a wilderness scout who escaped when his tribe tried to sacrifice him. He wasn't evil but he wasn't really broken up about slitting your throat if you messed with him either.

2) In my D&D group later on there was only one guy who liked gnomes, Jason, and he was the DM. There was a gnome NPC he had meet up with our group a lot. One of the players joked that the gnome probably looked like Jason. I blurted out that I kind of thought Jason looked gnomish, and had to duck under the table to avoid flying dice. (To be fair, Jason lost a lot of weight recently and probably is better looking than me now.)

Anyway, the 3rd edition gnome has a lot going for them mechanically speaking. As a smaller race they get the +1 to hit, +1 AC bonus, and +4 to hide. The Strength penalty only effects melee classes, while all classes can benefit from the Con bonus. A gnome wizard will therefore has one extra HP per level over another caster, or 2 more HP than an elf, while having the same AC. Wizards need all the HP and AC they can get, and hiding is there if your spells run out. The favored class does kind of suck though.

Gnomes also made good artificers in Eberron. I would make that their favored class myself. Eberron makes everything better though.

tesral
03-31-2010, 11:17 AM
1) When we were 14, my friend and I played D&D with a weird neighbor kid who was in one of his classes. My friend played a drow ranger with 2 scimitars. When that kid got grounded we started our own campaign, and he played a drow ranger with 2 scimitars again. Later on we had a campaign where I begged him not to play another drow or ranger, so he made an elf fighter . . . with 2 scimitars.
.

Perfect example of a drizzle.

cigamnogard
03-31-2010, 11:38 AM
Agreed

Soft Serve
03-31-2010, 12:34 PM
Gnomes are good target practice...

Cynic
03-31-2010, 01:30 PM
Gnomes are good target practice...

Far better for batting practice, especially if you're something with a large tail (Yuan Ti) and the gnome is flying in your direction.

russdm
03-31-2010, 10:05 PM
You can always use them to spring traps, put a gnome on a stick or ten-foot pole.....