PDA

View Full Version : Is Gaming Dead?



Pk1305
02-18-2010, 06:59 PM
Okay, so I sent this out on the Talislanta mailing list today so anyone who double dips can ignore. Regardless, I went into my local gaming store here in Milwaukee looking for a copy of the Talislanta 5th edition book because I was thinking of getting involved in a play by post game just to be involved with the game again. Quality gaming seems hard to find here and as much as I prefer the real world interaction of a game I am basically desperate to find something more than a D&D campaign run with old modules. Anyway, point being the guy who owns the store basically said the RPG hobby is dead or at least dying. Am I fooling myself by still engaging in this hobby or at least trying too? I've been gaming for more than 20 years and it is obvious that the number of gamers is going down, but is it dead?

Farcaster
02-18-2010, 07:15 PM
Table top gaming is far from dead. Our registry has over 11,000 gamers who have come together most for the purpose of finding other gamers in their area. A quick glance at RPG.net revealed there were some 500 registered gamers online right now over at that site talking to each other. Companies like Wizards of the Coast, Paizo, and White Wolf are still publishing multiple gaming books per month and supporting a host of game designers and support staff. Meanwhile there are a ton of smaller press companies that are successfully making a business of publishing RPGs.

Although I would agree that the industry is becoming more niche, it is far from gone, and I don't think it will be gone any time soon.

Mestemeah
02-18-2010, 09:26 PM
pk, it sounds to me like you are old school looking for something that may not be as visible to you (and a 20-year veteran like me, too) as it once was. I have recently discovered that going to the local gaming store in the DFW area does not necessarily yield the expected sight that I used to see... guys my age at one of the available tables playing some of the latest RPG material sold in the store. I tend to now see a group of "kids" playing something that I did not know was even out. The reason for the lack of familiarity with some of the "hot" material is the sheer amount of stuff that is out there now. With so much stuff available online, it is difficult for a guy like me with a day job to keep up. My best example was at Christmas... I visited a local gaming/comic store and found a group of young guys playing some kind of d20 module that I had never even seen. What I saw at the table were some d20 books, but the module that the GM was running was obviously a pdf that he had printed. In fact, many of the "books" they had at the table were printed/bound print outs that were not sold at the store.
It also seems that play by post and online "tabletop" gaming (as I like to call it) is becoming very popular. I would imagine that kind of gaming has taken a slice of the tabletop/in-person gaming pie.

My two cents,

Meste

BayGuardian
02-18-2010, 10:20 PM
I would not say the industry is dying so much as it is in a slump while it sorts itself out. Part of it is due to the economy, part of it is due to new technology and media availability, but the RPG had a slump back in the mid 80's as well. There were many companies producing RPG's and supliments back then and as TSR began to flex it's muscles, a lot of these companies either died or dwindeld. In the late 80's the industry recovered as many companies started looking at innovation and/or big name liscences like Star Wars. When d20 hit, the market was glutted again as everyone with access to desktop publishing put out d20 product like there was no tomorrow. Just like the CCG craze of the 90's, the d20 craze caused an industry slump that is just starting to turn around.

Pk1305
02-18-2010, 10:33 PM
I was out there buying a lot of that stuff in the 80s, at a time when I could find gamers everywhere. I had a ton of stuff from publishers like Bard Games and Chaosium and other companies but my local gaming store was never empty and I gamed with two or three different groups. These days the game store is dead, the other major game store went out of business and I can't find a quality group in my area at all. Having the guy at the gaming store tell me he is basically done with RPGs other than a very small selection combined with so much trouble finding a good game is discouraging me. I hope you are both right because I love this hobby

fmitchell
02-19-2010, 05:58 AM
Yes, gaming is dead. As are music, free speech, privacy, the American economy, reading, manners, offices with paper, and irony.

Dytrrnikl
02-19-2010, 06:09 AM
Yes, gaming is dead. As are music, free speech, privacy, the American economy, reading, manners, offices with paper, and irony.

You forgot...Personal Responsibility, Assumed Risk, and Parents that parent their children first before being their friends.

fmitchell
02-19-2010, 06:10 AM
OK, seriously.


Anyway, point being the guy who owns the store basically said the RPG hobby is dead or at least dying.

It may be dying as a revenue stream for him, and the industry as a whole isn't doing so well (nor are many these days), but the hobby is alive and well, thank you very much.

The Friendly Neighborhood Game Store is dying because of cheap deals over the internet, the plethora of small game publishers even after the d20 Bust who make stocking shelves with everything impossible, the rise of the PDF market, and the diminishing friendliness of the game stores themselves. That's right, I'm going there.

If your guy is anything like the guy at my "F"LGS, a bunch of kids can run around like maniacs and he won't bat an eye, but a middle-aged guy in T-shirt and jeans wandering among the shelves, sometimes bearing an item in his hand, gets a beady eye. (OK, I do mumble to myself sometimes when I'm thinking, and I can see how that might be offputting, but still.) Considering most of the stock on his shelves dates from the mid-nineties to early aughts -- except for the ubiquitous D&D and World of Darkness, but even that includes 3.x and old stuff -- I suspect he really doesn't want business from RPG'ers or even the few wargamers left. Maybe family games and puzzles -- what's in the front of the store -- are more lucrative.

Freejack
02-19-2010, 08:29 AM
Nah, it's not dead. I don't think it's even breathing hard really. It's more likely the stores are making choices like closing down or going with a different product.

I don't recall where I was reading the comment but back in the 70's the market was wargaming. Avalon Hill and SPI with lots of products. The wargamers complained because the FLGS's were starting to carry these new things called role playing games. The wargamers either converted or grumbled about "their" store pursuing the new market.

Then the FLGS's started stocking Magic and other CCG's and "our" FLGS's had Magic tournaments.

My closest FLGS is a board gaming shop. They're more expensive (Arkham Horror at $350, Starcraft, others) so the FLGS gets more money and it's more likely that more people will buy the board game than one GM buying a bunch of books for their group. As a gamer in general, I have lots of gear (you may have seen my game room :) ) but my group of players may have 5 or 6 books and a couple of them don't even have the core Shadowrun book.

There are many other shops in the area and most of them have at least a few people and most of the time quite a group playing CCGs, board games, or RPG's (D&D, Pathfinder, Shadowrun).

Add in that there are a lot of used games available (RPG.net has a large used trade/sale forum and of course e-bay, abebooks, and amazon) and of course you can't forget the 'net for the purchase of new books. My FLGS has to make a profit in order to stay in business and they can't carry thousands of books. There are local stores that carry lots of books (Black and Read and Bonnie Brae) but most carry the more popular games. So if I want something a little out of the ordinary or an older book (most of the FLGS's don't reorder associated books I've found), I have to find it on the 'net.

I'm also a big fan of Shadowrun (if you couldn't tell :) ) so I spend my money at Battlecorps whenever possible and buy the dead tree books at a specific FLGS.

Dead? Heck, last time I was in Borders and Barnes & Noble, they had Mouse Guard, Exalted, Shadowrun, D&D, Pathfinder, World of Darkness, and even dice.

I'm sorry the one store closed and that the owner of your FLGS is of the opinion that RPG is dead or dying. Check around. You may need to go out a little farther but I can't believe that there are only 2 gaming stores in Milwaukee :)

Carl

cplmac
02-19-2010, 12:29 PM
The hobby is far from being dead. If that were true, then there would be no way that we would have a tabletop/inperson group that has 11 members. Also, our Pittsburgh D&D Meetup group has grown by about 100 members over the past year. I believe that most people just aren't to sure as to where to look for gamers in their area. One way to help get people inquiring is to post a flyer up at a gaming store, as long as they allow. If they are hesitant in any way, you could suggest that it would show potential customers that there are gamers in the area that may need books and other supplies from their store. In these days, wether you are a gamer or running a gaming/hobby store, you need to be more proactive in finding people. If you aren't willing to put an effort into the search, then yes, your not going to see players/GMs/DMs/customers. Also, be patient. Just because you put some type of a notice up on Monday doesn't mean that by Tuesday evening you will have a big group of people. It took 8 months to get a start to our group of 11 and then once the first 4 of us showed that we were starting a group, the rest came together over the next 2 weeks.

Sorry for the ramble, but this is my 2 platinum coins worth.

wbrandel
02-19-2010, 12:57 PM
I find it hard to believe that the gaming industry is even slowing down. where I am at in Dallas off the top of my head I can think of at least 9 game stores within 30 minutes of my house plus 5 book stores (new and used) that sell games and allow people to play rpgs inside. the newest game store just opened about 6 monthes ago and business is booming for them. they have at least 5 different groups playing each weekend (yes that includes the wargamers as well)and I cannot recall a time when they haven't been busy except maybe opening week for them. So if the gaming industry is dying you can't tell it from where I am.

Pk1305
02-19-2010, 04:21 PM
Well, I figured at this site I would hear optimistic messages, which is great. I just found myself shocked that a guy who should want to take my money, money I was willing to give him because I was too impatient to wait for Amazon to deliver, would tell me that he had no interest in taking said money or in having stock in his store to meet my hobby interests.

As far as I know there is ONE gaming store with two locations in Milwaukee and then another store that is almost all miniatures with a small Border's sized collection of Dungeons and Dragons and finally a Games Workshop outlet. Most of the other gaming stores have gone out of business in the last few years. I've had my name up in both of the non-Games Workshop stores for over a year and all I find is the occasional Dungeons and Dragons and an extremely rare Shadowrun game, and I've never found a good Shadowrun GM. It's been a frustrating slog. Maybe I am being too picky by having no interest in Dungeons and Dragons or maybe I need to look at other websites beyond this one and nearbygamers for people.

cplmac
02-19-2010, 07:02 PM
Sounds to me like the guy at that store is looking to use the business to show a Loss that he can claim on the tax return. Some folks actually have no plan to actually make a profit.

Also, this site was made to bring gamers of all RPGs together, not just D&D. In addition to the Campaign Invitations section, you could check out Obsidian Portal (a partner with P&PG), colleges, or military bases. I have even heard of people hanging out in book stores at the RPG section and find other people that way. You could also check to see if there is anything in your area on Meetup.com that has people looking for games.

Hopefully this gives you some more places to find some face to face players. Good luck with the search.

Otakar
02-20-2010, 01:09 AM
It is quite amazing how many gamers there are. I am currently on a ship, out to sea. My roommate notices me looking at P&P Games. I mentioned I was into RPG. He mentioned it to another guy and turns out there's a group playing Serenity on board. Kind of fun game. I think gamers just have a hard time finding each other.

Banshee
02-20-2010, 02:16 AM
I feel your pain.

I don't think that traditional gaming is 'dead,' but I do think it's in a coma. Like you, I have played various RPGs for over two decades now. Back in the day, before PSX3, NIS, good PC games, Facebook and I-Phone apps, we were bored and, at least for me, tabletop RPG's were the solution. We were also alot younger then, with less in the way of responsibility, and we likely had more free time in which to play. Add that to the fact that there are so many RPGs out there, and seemingly so few players who are geographically able to meet for face-to-face games, and you have a gaming industry with a major challenge. On top of that, a major name in the industry (Wizards) seemingly produces a new edition to their game every couple of years- I for one was frustrated by D&D 4E. I had just gotten a good collection of 3.5E works (well over $1000 worth!) and they go and change the game. To be honest, it was enough to make me want to leave the hobby.

All of that being said, it is up to us, people like you and me, visiting awesome sites such as this, to spread the word and to do whatever we are able in order to keep our hobby, our game, alive.
--- Merged from Double Post ---
Farcaster, I hope you're right. As I said in a previous post in this thread, I love gaming. Truth be told though, although I have recently begun buying new material, I have not played in over two years now. I'm jonesing for a game! LOL. Thanks to this site, I have been in touch with two potential players/game masters in my area (I'm somewhat new to the area) but scheduling conflicts have thus far prevented a game from getting started. My fault, not that of the industry, but geez- only two people within a reasonable distance with gaming interests? Wow. Back in the day, had this technology been available, I could only imagine the interest it would have likely generated!

Whatever the case, I know these to be facts:
1. I'm having a very hard time finding a gaming store within a reasonable distance from home
2. I'm not always able to find what I'm looking for in the big-box bookstores that sell some of the books for the game

I do hope your assessment of the state of the industry is correct. I love gaming and I would really hate to see it die...

Pk1305
02-20-2010, 08:57 AM
For me I think it was WoW that utterly wrecked tabletop gaming, at least dealt it a serious blow in my area and age group. So many of my friends are working, married, have kids that the scheduling is hard and so they replaced playing a game that takes active imagination and dedicated scheduling with a mind numbing repetitive grind in full color that vaguely resembles gaming. I mean I didn't mind playing a bit but when people started to cancel real gaming for raids I was stunned. I mean who doesn't prefer sitting down in front of real friends and having real interaction to playing with their damned computer? I know my stable gaming group of years and years fell apart due to that very reason and I haven't been able to reliably replace it ever since.

rabkala
02-20-2010, 10:41 AM
Pk1305, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Pk1305, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge. Yes, Pk1305, gaming is alive. It is alive as certainly as love and generosity and devotion are alive, and you know that the thoughts abound just to give your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no thoughts of gaming. It would be as dreary as if there were no Pk1305s. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished. Not believe in gaming! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the tabletops to catch gaming, but even if they did not see gaming going down, what would that prove? Nobody sees all of gaming, but that is no sign that there is no gaming. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world. You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Pk1305, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. No Gaming! Thank God! it lives, and it lives forever. A thousand years from now, Pk1305, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, it will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

Thank you, Francis Pharcellus Church! :lol:

mrken
02-20-2010, 10:46 AM
Wow and the other online games can be turned on when one gets home and can be played until the player is done. You don't have to go somewhere and meet people, or schedule time to play. Online gaming is convenient. Face to face tabletop can be complicated. In a day and age when people are busy and free time is when you find it online gaming is there for you when you are ready.

There is the old saying, "You get out of it what you put into it." is so true. If one will put the effort into finding people to play with the reward is so much better. Playing by yourself even with others on the other side of the bits and bytes is rather shallow compared to playing with others across a table.

MortonStromgal
02-20-2010, 12:23 PM
I think its changing, anyone who owns a FLGS needs to figure out how to change with the times. As soon as POD gets inexpensive enough or everyone has a ebook reader, FLGS can really only carry books to supplement their sales of other things and not as a primary source of income. Down the line you have things like Microsoft Surfaces coming so all the FLGS who are heavy into board games better start thinking about alternative revenue now. The only thing holding the technology back its the current prohibitive cost.


For me I think it was WoW that utterly wrecked tabletop gaming, at least dealt it a serious blow in my area and age group.


It depends on what you were looking for in RPGs. I think if you were playing D&D with minis sitting at the kitchen table doing a dungeon dive, YES. If you were playing Vampire running around in the woods with a foam sword, NO. Those are extreme cases and everyone in the middle varries. It's very easy to simulate monster killing with your friends on a computer, its very difficult to simulate method acting. I would say anyone who enjoys WoW over an RPG either A. Enjoys the monster killing more than the RP or B. Didn't get what they wanted from the GM anyway.

But it is true once out of college life gets more complicated until the kids are grown and gone so you just don't have the time to go for 5 hours to a game. My weeknight game is 3 hrs long, thats all we have time for these days.

tesral
02-21-2010, 10:15 PM
It's all been said. Every recreation is in a slump. Gaming is no different. Actual gaming is still alive and well even if people are not buying as many toys. Funny thing but I don't need to spend a hundred bucks a month to game. I can keep gaming with nothing but a budget for paper and toner.

It is far too common a fallacy to assume that because something isn't working for you, in this case the store owner, that it isn't working for anyone.

Oh, and if the popularity and "inness" of the hobby is what matters, please, leave at once if not sooner, the hobby is as dead as Pogs

Pk1305
02-21-2010, 10:38 PM
Hell, popularity is obviously not my concern, the origin of the thread was my surprise to hear the owner of a game store tell me he thought the hobby was dead. I am not attacking the hobby, I've been doing it for 20 years and love it to death. I am just curious if I was living in a fantasy world trying to hold on to a hobby that seems less viable lately.

tesral
02-22-2010, 06:20 AM
The Hobby is as viable as we make it. The stunning truth is we don't need the game companies, the stores, any of it. They need us. The true creative urge is within the players.

Pk1305
02-22-2010, 08:35 AM
That seems like a mildly ridiculous statement to me, because no one person makes a group-oriented hobby viable. I understand being optimistic but let's try and be realistic as well. If the hobby was so strong there wouldn't be 2 pages of this thread or 11,000 people on this site and who knows how many on several others just like it looking to make gaming connections. I never needed the internet to find gamers 10 years ago and now I am on three different sites, my name posted at three different gaming store locations and on a mailing list all looking to make connections to help me continue in my hobby. That's been my situation for the past three years. Now I admit I am careful about who I game with and I don't just join any group because I have high standards in terms of story and group chemistry but I haven't been swamped with options. You can probably come up with all sorts of excuses how it is my fault but all they are is excuses. The hobby demands more than individual dedication it demands a group of like minded people willing to also dedicate themselves to a communal pursuit and that is, in my opinion, getting harder and harder to find. It isn't just gaming, take a look at your local bowling alley or softball leagues. People aren't doing things together anymore in anywhere near the same numbers as they were 15 years ago when I think gaming was in it's prime.

tesral
02-22-2010, 11:00 AM
Social connections have changed. In college it is easy to find players. I still play out at Oakland University They game every Friday and the group I play with is not the only one role playing that night.

Outside of college connections are more difficult. This beats fliers at the community center and I have used that as well. Hobby stores are about the only other method of connection gamers have.

Who wants to start a gamer's bar?

MortonStromgal
02-22-2010, 11:16 AM
...because I have high standards...
That my friend is the key. I could yell out my window and say who wants to play D&D and probably get a couple responses. I swear you cant throw a rock in Seattle and not hit a gamer. But if I want to play Dread it gets a bit tougher, especially if I'm looking for a particular type of gamer. My Thursday night group I would have no problems pulling out Dread, Burning Wheel, heck right now we are playing Desolation. But my Saturday group is different, not in a bad way but I would certainly think long and hard before pulling out something obscure.

wizard_in_motley
02-22-2010, 12:51 PM
Quality gaming seems hard to find here and as much as I prefer the real world interaction of a game I am basically desperate to find something more than a D&D campaign run with old modules. Anyway, point being the guy who owns the store basically said the RPG hobby is dead or at least dying. Am I fooling myself by still engaging in this hobby or at least trying too? I've been gaming for more than 20 years and it is obvious that the number of gamers is going down, but is it dead?

I've had about the same number of years at the gaming table, maybe a little more. I've been hearing that since there were hearings at congress trying to tell people that we were devil worshipers. That certainly upset me, I've always been devil or daemon killer.

Anyway, back to what you asked. How have you advertised your interest in gaming? I found that notice boards in the stores themselves no longer work so I came here at put up a post back in August. I stressed that even though I was using D&D it was going to be a Roleplaying heavy group. I got enough people to fill the table and it's going well. Two sessions ago there was not combat at all and the players are still telling me how memorable that was.

As for the stores themselves that's a very mixed bag. If the person running the store isn't doing what it takes to support the hobby he's doing the community and himself a disservice. There's a chain of stores close to me that was doing so well with people wanting to game on the weekends they've floated the idea of (or implemented) charging for the tables on the weekends.

Pk1305
02-22-2010, 01:17 PM
As I said I am here, enrolled on a meet-up group and on nearby gamers. I also subscribe to a Talislanta mailing list and have joined facebook fan pages for WFRP and Talislanta in addition to the local gaming stores, both on their boards and their webpages. The problem is in part my resistance to d20 games and in part the fact that I am not a GM. I think if I was willing to GM I would be able to fill a table but I tend to get bored and lose focus as a GM unless the players are really really interesting. My friends who I have run the occasional game for have always enjoyed the games but they tend to not last. Doing a player registry search for my area shows a very small selection of GMs and so I feel like that contributes to the problem, right up there with my being selective.

As for Tesral's gaming bar, count me, but we would need to put it somewhere in the middle of the lake for both of us to attend those gatherings.

Farcaster
02-22-2010, 01:21 PM
If the hobby was so strong there wouldn't be 2 pages of this thread or 11,000 people on this site and who knows how many on several others just like it looking to make gaming connections. I never needed the internet to find gamers 10 years ago and now I am on three different sites, my name posted at three different gaming store locations and on a mailing list all looking to make connections to help me continue in my hobby.

Had I the technical savvy at the time or if the internet had been as mature as it is now ten years ago, or even fifteen years ago, this site would have definitely existed. It was about fifteen years ago that I first moved to Dallas. Although there was no shortage of RPG players in that area, I didn't know anyone and no one that I worked with played RPGs. So, I had to resort to posting notes on billboards at the local hobby shops and trying to contact people that way. This site was borne out of the desire to have a better way. I think there was a need then, just as there is now.

tesral
02-22-2010, 02:29 PM
Agreed, gamers do not glow a spacial color. We have no particular plumage separate from other geeks of a feather. There are plenty of gamers, finding them is the hard part.

cigamnogard
02-22-2010, 02:42 PM
I find that a lot of players and even DM/GM have hurt the industry as well. last night at game I cautioned a player that he might want to use an action point. It was his 1st game with my group, his 1st game in Eberron (having action points), and most importantly his 1st game with me as a DM. He declined thinking his 25 save was good enough and from dealing with his last DM and his evilgasms he thought I was being a jerk.
The save DC was 27.
The rest of the players at the table inormed him I was not a dickDM and if I offer caution it might be good to listen to me. The game is not character creation night and TPK's are not the norm. It is meant to be fun and I cheer the players on. And I do not intentionally pull any punches.
The player did learn and live and hopefully will be back again next game.

talysian
02-22-2010, 03:13 PM
Wow.. I'd almost be willing to bet you went to gamechest....;p

Gameing is not dead, I recently went to the new to me flgs and I was blown away. A place called xmax games in dallas. It was like a internetcafe/gamestore/Mech Warrior Simulator haven. AKA geek heaven ;) We then proceded to do our Friday game there to see how it went, and this place was filled with people, doing rpgs, war gameing, Boardgames. So no I don't think gaming is dead. I just don't feel that the gameing industry really supports the FLGS that have nothing going for them but selling dead trees. Now as for finding groups for the older games, or more off the beaten path ones.. This is a pita.


OK, seriously.



It may be dying as a revenue stream for him, and the industry as a whole isn't doing so well (nor are many these days), but the hobby is alive and well, thank you very much.

The Friendly Neighborhood Game Store is dying because of cheap deals over the internet, the plethora of small game publishers even after the d20 Bust who make stocking shelves with everything impossible, the rise of the PDF market, and the diminishing friendliness of the game stores themselves. That's right, I'm going there.

If your guy is anything like the guy at my "F"LGS, a bunch of kids can run around like maniacs and he won't bat an eye, but a middle-aged guy in T-shirt and jeans wandering among the shelves, sometimes bearing an item in his hand, gets a beady eye. (OK, I do mumble to myself sometimes when I'm thinking, and I can see how that might be offputting, but still.) Considering most of the stock on his shelves dates from the mid-nineties to early aughts -- except for the ubiquitous D&D and World of Darkness, but even that includes 3.x and old stuff -- I suspect he really doesn't want business from RPG'ers or even the few wargamers left. Maybe family games and puzzles -- what's in the front of the store -- are more lucrative.

wizard_in_motley
02-23-2010, 03:23 PM
I find that a lot of players and even DM/GM have hurt the industry as well. last night at game I cautioned a player that he might want to use an action point. It was his 1st game with my group, his 1st game in Eberron (having action points), and most importantly his 1st game with me as a DM. He declined thinking his 25 save was good enough and from dealing with his last DM and his evilgasms he thought I was being a jerk.

The Evil DM has been with the hobby since it started though. Look at some of the original D&D modules that had all sorts of 'you're dead' traps. I have always had to start with new players by telling them what kind of DM I am. It's a pleasure to bring new people into the hobby because they don't have the preconceived notions of how someone's supposed to run a game.

I have had three gaming stores near me in the DC metro area. One is actually a chain of stores, they have tables in the back and are busy every weekend with all sorts of gaming going around. The second is usually even busier but the staff is not that friendly and there are more card players than anything else. The other store closed just before 4e came out. So a whole range of store experiences for me within a 40 minute drive.

cigamnogard
02-23-2010, 06:47 PM
The Evil DM has been with the hobby since it started though. Look at some of the original D&D modules that had all sorts of 'you're dead' traps. I have always had to start with new players by telling them what kind of DM I am. It's a pleasure to bring new people into the hobby because they don't have the preconceived notions of how someone's supposed to run a game.

One Battletech player/GM pretty much killed the game single handedly in my neck of the woods. In a population of 179,246 that's pretty "good" job. A buddy of mine and myself did what we could but it was a lost cause.

Malruhn
02-23-2010, 08:10 PM
Another thing to consider here is that, in a "fringe" hobby such as D&D, you are also looking for a tiny fringe of that genre - Talislanta. It's kind of saying that the automobile industry is dead because you can't anyone to ride in your Lime-Green Gremlin.

It's alive, but it's up to US to keep it that way. Broaden your sights a bit, and I bet you find many more people willing to play.

cigamnogard
02-23-2010, 08:55 PM
Excellent point.

Pk1305
02-23-2010, 09:46 PM
Hey I am not only looking for Talislanta, I am just looking for something better than D&D. The mechanics of D&D drive me mildly insane. I will admit that the games I like are more fringe but I haven't seen anything but D&D and Shadowrun in a really long time and I've never met a good Shadowrun GM

Mestemeah
02-23-2010, 10:09 PM
Hey I am not only looking for Talislanta, I am just looking for something better than D&D. The mechanics of D&D drive me mildly insane. I will admit that the games I like are more fringe but I haven't seen anything but D&D and Shadowrun in a really long time and I've never met a good Shadowrun GM

Most of the "fringe" games are typically available only online anymore. It's just so much cheaper to publish a pdf and sell it on the internet. The availability of net software for playing a "tabletop" game online has also probably created a roadblock to finding local gamers that play the not-so-mainstream stuff.

I've tried my hand at GMing Shadowrun 4. I think I did okay, but it was tough. I'm not sure what it is about Shadowrun that makes it tougher to run than a D&D game. Things that make you go hmmm...

Pk1305
02-23-2010, 10:42 PM
Yeah I agree, that the games are easier to find online, but I guess in addition to being a fan of smaller games I am also a purist. I don't want to play alone in my office, I want to be social and engage with other people who share my hobbies. Part of my issue with that is I work in an office with a lot of nice, older ladies who don't know or care about Science Fiction, Fantasy or any of the things I enjoy. I want to have more contact with "my people" as it were.

I am not sure why it is so hard to find a good GM for Shadowrun, I think it is hard to balance the serial criminal aspect with trying to have a cohesive storyline. Too much random criminal activity and it feels disconnected and you get no character development and too much storyline and you are turning your professional criminals and murderers into paladins and railroading the characters into something the player never intended them to be. I think it is tough to achieve a good balance in that

Malruhn
02-23-2010, 11:36 PM
A thought about the dearth of Shadowrun GM's... just my opinion, BUT...

It's easy to imagine a world that is totally different than ours - with dragons and wizards and orcs. It is likewise easy to imagine a world that is totally LIKE ours - with 007 and armies and navies and such.

What is not so easy is to imagine a world that is SLIGHTLY different than ours. The trend is to either fall into the totally familiar or the totally unfamiliar... it's hard to walk the razor's edge.

That being said, I've never run into a good SR GM either. I'm sure they exist... just not in MY reality!

MortonStromgal
02-24-2010, 12:21 AM
LOL I think Shadowrun is easy to run.

1. PCs get mission
2. do legwork, planning, preping
3. If Mission goes good skip to 5 else see 4
4. You now have 3 choices. Money, Suvival, or Morals
5. Give XP

You create a arc by having reoccurring employers and npcs and break it up so it doesnt feel force.

Campaign Example
1. Hired for extra protection for an employee of subsidiary of a subsidiary of sub... well Misuhama in the end.
2. Hired for a package delevery
3. Hired for a breakin to Fuchi (hired by a Misuhamana subsidiary)
4. Hired for another package delevery to someplace exotic
5. Hired for kidnapping
6. Hired for a package delevery to Misuhama exec
7. Hired for break in
8. Hired for extra protection for a star (urban brawl, music, etc)
9. Hired for another breakin on Renraku (hired by Misuhama)
10. Hired for another exotic location to recover something
11. Betrayed by Misuhama
12. Payback

Banshee
02-24-2010, 02:48 AM
I hear ya. It is nice to be able to play games like WoW, CoH, CoV, etc online as another type of game, but when players who originally began as tabletop gamers make the conversion and then leave tabletop behind for good, it just, well, sucks. The situation sucks, that is. The CoV was the online game that aided in the disbanding of my former group. Of course the things that come with adulthood were factors too (spouses, children, housework, jobs, careers, moving, etc) but these were made worse by the online game. I saw the beginning of the end when the pre-session chat at one of our last tabletop sessions was entirely focused on what some members of our group did in CoV the night before. I guess that's just life in these modern times?

Freejack
02-24-2010, 08:28 AM
Yep, I've had no trouble running Shadowrun for the past 2 years. Heck, my real problem is getting real life tech mixed up with Shadowrun tech. When the Hacker makes her run, I use how computers work now as the layout of the network she's attempting to break in to.

The funny thing is the group likes to explore outside of the confines of the mission. So the Shadowrun Missions I run which are 4 hour convention games tend to go on to as much as 16 hours because they wander off to different tasks.

I seem to be reasonably good at winging it so when the group heads off, I can whip up a floor plan and a few mooks for them to interact with.

Carl

Pk1305
02-24-2010, 08:30 AM
Morton - for some reason every time I play Shadowrun the GM tries quite rapidly to bring me into some kind of "Save the World" plot line. I try and explain to said mysterious crusader that saving the world costs extra, that my expense account includes dry cleaning and I don't take orders from anyone just money and then the tracks get laid and I am riding Amtrak all of the sudden, usually with an angry conductor and a drunken engineer ona trip to save the world. I would love a campaign that resulted as the natural consequences of my actions to start forming a more cohesive storyline or where I was slowly drawn into a moral code above and beyond greed but I hate to be dragged without good reason into a storyline contrary to the game we signed up to play. Especially because the GM never says in advance prepare to play Paladin Shadowrun.

I agree with you Banshee. City of Heroes wasn't so bad for my group really, we all played CoH but WoW killed us because half of us hated it. It is so easy to get online and play a MMO and so tough to balance a table but the rewards of a table are so much higher in my experience it is worth the hassle. Which is why I am desperate to get a good table group again and wishing there were more active GMs around here playing interesting games.

Skunkape
02-24-2010, 08:41 AM
I play MMOs on occasion, but I still like to play face to face games with my friends. I enjoy the ability of the players to have an impact on the game world, whether I'm doing it as a player or they're doing it and I'm the GM. I know that in MMOs you have an impact on the game world as well, but the level of effect that you have in a face to face game can be much greater than in an MMO.

To me, MMOs just don't have the same appeal. Course, I also have to deal with other things in my adult life, so where I used to game 3 or more times a week, I now have to restrict myself to gaming once a week or less.:D

CityofSin
02-24-2010, 10:31 AM
Here is Boston gaming is alive and well. People may not be playing all the same games they were 10-15 years ago, but there are still plenty of gaming groups and a ton of gaming stores.

tesral
02-24-2010, 11:06 AM
Morton - for some reason every time I play Shadowrun the GM tries quite rapidly to bring me into some kind of "Save the World" plot line.

I get where you are going. I prefer gaming on a personal basis. I don't necessarily want to save the world. I might save a city now and again, but frankly I prefer the world was larger than I am and can really get along without my holding it up.

I like to concentrate on the people.

WhiteTiger
02-24-2010, 12:38 PM
Personally, I love "Save the World" plot lines. :biggrin:

Swordnboard
02-24-2010, 01:32 PM
I have in general found the same issues with trying to use a gaming store and pretty much only order what I want online anymore. However, it was a hobby store owner that helped point me in new directions -- so it's not always a lost cause. Sometimes you have to look around for a while... each store is catering to a slightly different crowd.

Gaming is alive and well.

Pk1305
02-24-2010, 03:12 PM
Saving the world is all well and good when you are playing a campaign about epic heroes, like in Exalted. You live and breathe on that kind of scale and frankly you are expected to be more or less motivated towards saving the world. Shadowrun is altogether different. You are a mercenary, assassin, thief and saboteur and you work for the highest bidder without a whole lot of concern about the fate of mankind. You are trying to stay alive in a hostile world controlled by generally malicious and insidious corporate forces (thank you 1980s ). I like plot twists obviously, nobody likes to be bored, but let's at least try and maintain some degree of flavor for the game and world

cigamnogard
02-24-2010, 06:54 PM
I played in a Shadowrun campaign. My cousin and I played a brother and sister team and it was fantastic! The GM was great and I was sad when it ended after only three sessions.
Years later I bumped into the GM and asked him where the story would have ended up - he couldn't rememeber.

Pk1305
02-24-2010, 07:18 PM
I believe Shadowrun has tons of potential, I just never get to experience it's fullness generally due to a GM issue

Freejack
02-24-2010, 11:08 PM
You're welcome to come to Colorado and experience my game any time. I might even head up there except I ride a sport bike so the Harley guys might get upset :)

Carl

Pk1305
02-24-2010, 11:21 PM
Yeah, I appreciate the offer but I just made my fiancee buy me a house and I am all nice and settled into my territory now so a big move to Colorado seems unlikely. Which is too bad because now I am looking around for a new Shadowrun GM this week. I can't find a fantasy game that isn't D&D of any kind around here so I am shopping for a better Shadowrun GM. The guy whose group I just joined is doing the Amtrak thing a bit and undercutting the characters for no real reason but to be a dick so I am looking at my options.

MortonStromgal
02-25-2010, 12:11 AM
Morton - for some reason every time I play Shadowrun the GM tries quite rapidly to bring me into some kind of "Save the World" plot line. I try and explain to said mysterious crusader that saving the world costs extra, that my expense account includes dry cleaning and I don't take orders from anyone just money and then the tracks get laid and I am riding Amtrak all of the sudden, usually with an angry conductor and a drunken engineer ona trip to save the world. I would love a campaign that resulted as the natural consequences of my actions to start forming a more cohesive storyline or where I was slowly drawn into a moral code above and beyond greed but I hate to be dragged without good reason into a storyline contrary to the game we signed up to play. Especially because the GM never says in advance prepare to play Paladin Shadowrun.



I see what your saying. I always leave the world saving in the hands of the PCs. Last time they voted to live and they ended up kinda doing the moral thing. They saved the star of the band but the rest didnt make it mostly because they were so concerned with the star they kinda left the rest of them in the firefight. Oh well, they lived which was the one of the three choices they had :) saving the star was a bonus.

Banshee
02-25-2010, 04:09 AM
Farcaster, I kinda agree with Pk's thoughts that gaming is dying, but after reading your reply in context with Pk's quote, I'm coming around to see what you're saying. It's not really "dying" so much as it is changing. Dramatically, perhaps. And, yes, had the Internet been around back in the day, it would have been a wonderful resource to bring gamers together. Heck, I too recall the days of finding new "recruits" by scouting out index cards hung on bulleting boards in game shops, but the 'Net is obviously a much more efficient way to go about the same thing.

Well, I'm gonna keep buying stuff (until wifey puts her foot down- she tolerates my interest in "the goblins game" but isn't a fan) and visiting the site. If everyone else who considers gaming an important hobby does the same, the industry should do well enough I guess.

Freejack
02-25-2010, 08:15 AM
Yeah, I appreciate the offer but I just made my fiancee buy me a house and I am all nice and settled into my territory now so a big move to Colorado seems unlikely. Which is too bad because now I am looking around for a new Shadowrun GM this week. I can't find a fantasy game that isn't D&D of any kind around here so I am shopping for a better Shadowrun GM. The guy whose group I just joined is doing the Amtrak thing a bit and undercutting the characters for no real reason but to be a dick so I am looking at my options.

I didn't mean move here :D Just come on down to Tacticon in September. I'll be running Shadowrun, Paranoia, and something else to be selected later. It won't be quite the same as the team will have to complete the task in 4 hours vs the free-form gaming my normal group plays. Heck, you can drop down for Carlcon which happens every other Sunday at my place :D

Carl

bigironvault
02-25-2010, 08:22 AM
I feel that the industry is changing more so than dying. What we're seeing is a proliferation of indie product. Which to me a sign that the industry is in a state of innovation and movig away from the "big guys" simply because they are not producing the material that we want to see today. (Personally, I can only handle that many prestique classes if you know what I mean.)

I myself have been exploring the indie side of games much more and to by pleasure, it's so much more entertaining than the "pro" side of things. Sure production quality isn't as great ... but remember the old days? Neither were books back then! But we love them just the same.

The "man" is trying to win us over with glossy pictures and cool imagery but they don't have the substance that they used to. In that sense...

Gaming is dead.

But there's a new wave, a movement - the ease of self-publication facilitates this. We as gamers just need to be more open to unfamilar things and games.

Pk1305
02-25-2010, 08:41 AM
Again, I think some people misinterpret my original post. It was never previously my personal belief that gaming was dying, but to be confronted by the game stores not carrying material anymore and the incredible difficulty of finding anyone to play tabletop games with has sort of made me waiver in my convictions. I am not sure I agree that ten years ago I would have used a website like this because back then everyone had magic cards and everyone who had magic cards played some tabletop rpg basically. It was simple to find gamers that way or through gaming stores. I still talk to a guy occasionally who I met 17 years ago on a gaming board in my local Madison shop. I never would have gotten to the point of looking online because I never had difficulty finding groups, we used to turn people away from our groups in high school and college. I feel like the hobby has become fractured into a variety of smaller hobbies instead of overlapping interests. People with miniatures and cards don't necessarily game like I do anymore, a lot of people just stopped gaming to play WOW or CoH etc etc online now and it is harder and harder to find people even with the internet sites who want to sit down together and game face to face using pen, paper and imagination. I have more tools to find people now and still fewer and fewer options of people and games regardless.

As for the indie options, I am sure they are great, but I am not buying anything new unless I know I can find somebody to play it with. I don't mind low quality publishing and I am not that impressed with the fact that gaming books that used to be black and white and $15 are now glossy nightmares that cost $50. I just don't feel like getting attached to the idea of trying a new game that I might never crack open as more than recreational reading.

Morton - I am not talking about saving a few people I mean Mr. Johnson is telling me that if I don't rescue this magickal dingus all mages are at risk of dying and so I should do that out of the good of my heart. On my second run. Again, open to making moral choices, but I wanted to play a game of corporate espionage and mercenary criminality not save the world as the basis of the run.

Finally, sorry I misunderstood, I haven't been paying attention to when and where the gaming conventions are lately. I've always preferred long term campaigns so I don't usually hit the cons. My bad Sir

Skunkape
02-25-2010, 08:54 AM
You're welcome to come to Colorado and experience my game any time. I might even head up there except I ride a sport bike so the Harley guys might get upset :)

Carl

Naw, we tolerate you guys on your sport bikes! After all, you guys are riding motorcycles, just not the right kind! :laugh:

Freejack
02-25-2010, 11:45 AM
Naw, we tolerate you guys on your sport bikes! After all, you guys are riding motorcycles, just not the right kind! :laugh:

I used to ride a Harley but after 40,000 miles, I realized I'm not old enough yet to be riding one :D

I'm heading out for a "short" trip in July on the sport bike. Denver to Portland, south to San Diego, east to Key West then back to Denver. Nice little run :)

Carl

TheYeti1775
02-25-2010, 02:34 PM
Could just do like I did to find a group.
Looked at the registry here, PM'd folks all around me asking if they had a game or were interested in starting one.
Took about a month or two to get positive responses in.

cigamnogard
02-25-2010, 04:12 PM
Could just do like I did to find a group.
Looked at the registry here, PM'd folks all around me asking if they had a game or were interested in starting one.
Took about a month or two to get positive responses in.
Good plan. I have also been contacted from someone on here and they came to a couple of games but they are working pretty hard on their doctorate.

Pk1305
02-25-2010, 04:13 PM
Oh, I've got feelers out, just not as many as I would like. Not many people in the thirty mile radius of me who have been logging on much this year who play anything but D&D on the register but I am contacting people when I find them. I am trying to be optimistic that I can get a solid group back together at least a few times a month. Right now I have a group that meets like every 8 weeks and a group that meets twice a month with a GM who isn't winning me over so far so I hope to find a better fit soon.

cigamnogard
02-25-2010, 05:42 PM
I thought Milwakee was a big place.
--- Merged from Double Post ---
Yes --> 604,000+
Confused as to why you can only find a few games.

Freejack
02-25-2010, 06:26 PM
Well 30 miles isn't all that far really but that's me. I don't mind riding a ways. I was riding 90 minutes to get to a Shadowrun game for about 6 months before he moved closer.

Carl

Pk1305
02-25-2010, 06:49 PM
Well, Milwaukee is a big place, but everyone is either playing D&D or apparently has a solid group and isn't looking for more. I set it at a 30 mile search because I don't want to look in Chicago, I can't stand trying to drive through Chicago. I used to drive regular to Madison about 75 miles away and that was fine so I might spread feelers out that way too but I was trying to stick local because my preference would be to host.

MortonStromgal
02-26-2010, 10:46 AM
I would say if you what to host you need to GM and if your not running d20 shoot for 2 players. If you get more great but you'll have to build the fan base.

Pk1305
02-26-2010, 05:23 PM
Meh the mediocre game I am in occasionally we have the guy with kids who GMs but can't host. The other game I am stuck GMing is meeting once every 6 to 8 weeks at best and I don't host that one either because one of the players has to babysit while he games so that rule doesn't seem to apply to any of my recent games.

Regardless, it doesn't much matter because I am not getting response to my online inquiries.

cigamnogard
02-26-2010, 05:44 PM
Have you thought about PbP games?

Richard Littles
02-26-2010, 05:49 PM
Have you thought about joining an established group and see about rotating GMing, so players and the current GM can experience games that you want to play?

Pk1305
02-26-2010, 06:07 PM
I've recently started experimenting with the idea of play by post, but I really don't like the idea much because the whole point of gaming to me is that is a cooperative social activity where you sit down with other actual people. PbP feels like a really slow MMO to me.

As for joining an existing group with rotating GMs, I'd be more than willing to do that. I just haven't been able to find groups playing anything but D&D and I have absolutely zero interest in the d20/D&D game. I've sent messages to at least 5 or 6 people online in the last two weeks looking for any arrangement and I've never said I wouldn't be willing to GM. Most people on the player registry near here haven't logged on in like a year or two so I haven't started contacting people who haven't been on in that long. Not sure what the etiquette is on that

Richard Littles
02-26-2010, 06:11 PM
My group plays Hero System, so there are non-D&D games on here. :) I have a thread in the Campaign Invitations section if you're interested.

Pk1305
02-26-2010, 08:07 PM
Your group is also listed as about 400 miles away, and while it is 400 miles where I don't need to drive through Chicago I still think I might pass. I have an unpaid speed ticket in Polk County IL so getting to Missouri might not be safe financially speaking.

cplmac
02-26-2010, 08:12 PM
I thought that Richard Littles game was an online game?

Richard Littles
02-26-2010, 08:29 PM
I thought that Richard Littles game was an online game?

Yup, my game is online and uses GSC for voice chat with PPG chat providing the die rolls.

bigironvault
03-22-2010, 04:04 PM
At least you don't live here in Ontario, Canada. There's hardly anyone on the registry that's nearby and willing.

Farcaster
03-22-2010, 04:25 PM
At least you don't live here in Ontario, Canada. There's hardly anyone on the registry that's nearby and willing.

Move on down here to Seattle and we'll get you hooked up ;)

cplmac
03-22-2010, 06:33 PM
Move on down here to Seattle and we'll get you hooked up ;)

Yes, but it may be a shorter distance for BIV to come to Pittsburgh. At least it would be cheaper for the rental truck milage. We should be able to either find a game to get you in on or enough people to get a game group started. At 14 members currently, our tabletop group is not taking any more new members.

tesral
03-22-2010, 09:26 PM
At least you don't live here in Ontario, Canada. There's hardly anyone on the registry that's nearby and willing.


Move on down here to Seattle and we'll get you hooked up ;)


Or Michigan. Heck with everyone out of work gaming is what there is to do.

Farcaster
03-22-2010, 10:17 PM
Or Michigan. Heck with everyone out of work gaming is what there is to do.
The realestate would certainly be more affordable there... But we have better coffee ;)

tesral
03-23-2010, 12:36 AM
The realestate would certainly be more affordable there... But we have better coffee ;)

STARBUCKS?!?!?!? I have never met anyone that liked the crap they call coffee. I am told, that the best cuppa joe around is Bob Evans' followed by 7-11.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-23-2010, 01:00 AM
8 o'clock & dunkin donuts coffee's were best in a nationwide survey. I believe Starbucks came in 10th. I never liked Starbucks, and i sure as hell won't pay their rediculous prices for them. They've been gouging for years, so it's nice to see them hurting. I have heard that Seattles Best came in top five.

tesral
03-23-2010, 02:45 AM
Full disclosure, I don't drink coffee, so I don't care. I just take reports from those that do.

Who ran the survey?

Last Year Tim Horton's called me about their rim thing. "Well, I don't drink coffee, so I am about the most unlikely person to roll up anything with your label or anyone 's coffee label on it...Any other comments?...The donuts are decent but the sandwiches are awful. I would eat at McDonald's first...No, I don't drink their coffee either."

She kept asking me about coffee. Alas, someone that could not get away from a script that failed, nor could she give up the call. Amusing rather. I love crashing scripts.

Otakar
03-23-2010, 08:30 AM
Alas, someone that could not get away from a script that failed, nor could she give up the call. Amusing rather. I love crashing scripts.

Yea, there's better things to discuss! Like how about D&D 4E being better than any of its lesser predecessors! Ain't that right, Tersal? :lol:

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-23-2010, 10:17 AM
Yea, there's better things to discuss! Like how about D&D 4E being better than any of its lesser predecessors! Ain't that right, Tersal? :lol:

Thems fightin' words!

Soft Serve
03-23-2010, 11:34 AM
Yea, there's better things to discuss! Like how about D&D 4E being better than any of its lesser predecessors! Ain't that right, Tersal? :lol:


Thems fightin' words!


I think it would be cool if the paperclip popped up and said "It looks like you're trying to start a war. You should use harsher language. And attack their insecurities."

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-23-2010, 11:56 AM
That would be clever... and funny. Something for the Suggestion forum, i guess. :lol:

tesral
03-23-2010, 12:15 PM
Yea, there's better things to discuss! Like how about D&D 4E being better than any of its lesser predecessors! Ain't that right, Tersal? :lol:

Pbbbbbt!


(Hey, that's not easy with a beak.)




I think it would be cool if the paperclip popped up and said "It looks like you're trying to start a war. You should use harsher language. And attack their insecurities."


Only one fly in that ointment.
2457



That would be clever... and funny. Something for the Suggestion forum, i guess. :lol:

Put it in a helm and with a sword.

Soft Serve
03-23-2010, 12:28 PM
Poor clippy...he helped me write ransom notes.

Otakar
03-24-2010, 08:02 AM
Tesral and all, I'll be thinking of you while playing D&D 4E Encounters http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Event.aspx?x=dnd/4new/event/dndencounters at my FLGS tonight! Nah, gaming isn't dead. ;-)

Soft Serve
03-24-2010, 11:49 AM
Good Luck Otakar. Tell us how that goes down for you.

cigamnogard
03-24-2010, 06:32 PM
At least you don't live here in Ontario, Canada. There's hardly anyone on the registry that's nearby and willing.
I live in the gap - there are lots of players here.

Crom on his Mountain
03-28-2010, 04:17 PM
It's not dying, but it's definitely changing. WotC has seen the success of WoW and has created a game specifically to capture the same gamers, and as WotC goes the game industry goes. The kind of campaigns old-timers like myself (old-timer at 32, wth?) are used to are long gone. I even find myself wanting to go back to 2nd Edition, but good luck finding a 2e game.

cigamnogard
03-28-2010, 05:24 PM
Make one.

cplmac
03-29-2010, 01:53 PM
Obiviously, Crom hasn't checked out my blog. The campaign log for my Tsojcanth game, as well as my character, Belsar Hammerfell's adventure journal can be found there. Also, I have a game on the Chat, Destiny of Kings. All of these use 2E. Just goes to show, it may take some searching, but there are still folks that are using 2E.

Crom on his Mountain
03-30-2010, 03:34 AM
Chat games aren't too difficult to find, but face to face are. The occasional person providing evidence that they're in a game isn't evidence that they are easy to find. Searching boards shows a game popping up once in a while, unfortunately they're about 1,000 miles away or more. I almost got into a 2e game about a year ago, but it fell apart before it even started. Don't have time for another campaign anyways tbh, I'm already running an E6 Conan game and will soon be running an E6 game face to face. My face to face game is with a couple college kids, and I doubt they'd go for 2e.

cigamnogard
03-30-2010, 04:47 PM
My face to face game is with a couple college kids, and I doubt they'd go for 2e.
Ask them.

Soft Serve
03-30-2010, 10:09 PM
I doubt they'd buy me pizza.

(Pizza + Gaming + Donuts = Hand-in-Hand)(in hand)

kamikaze616
03-30-2010, 11:43 PM
It depends on how much you're willing to compromise I think. Like if you really want to play Shadowrun, that's not a really common game that everyone knows. So you might have to GM to get that game going. D&D and Vampire seem like the only really common games, and now they have different versions so it's not like you're automatically on the same page as everyone. 2e stopped being published in 1999 so that's not an easy deal either. If you're running it and you're a good GM I'll play anything, but if I am doing the work of GMing I will do what I prefer.

I played D&D at my local comic store and they were mostly like high school age kids. They really goofed around a lot and the game didn't move anywhere. They claimed to be roleplayers, but it didn't seem like they were involved in the story, they were just goofing off. I went until one day, these two guys decide their characters are going to fight. That was almost the entire session right there. I thought "I worked ten hours and then came here all tired and didn't even get to do anything." So I do have some sympathy for when you can't find a game you like.

But you have to have a balance. You shouldn't have to play what you don't enjoy, but if you're only willing to play a game of 1st edition Traveler that someone else GMs and players that all play just like you do, good luck.

Otakar
03-31-2010, 07:25 AM
I doubt they'd buy me pizza.[QUOTE]

Amen, Soft Serve! All DMs should get their pizza for free. I put hours into these adventures (not that I mind) but all they have to do is show-up and kill the monsters. 5 guys on the average from ages 25-45 and no one ever suggests that I not pay for the pizza!

---------- Post added at 07:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 AM ----------

[QUOTE=Soft Serve;136613]Good Luck Otakar. Tell us how that goes down for you.

To tell you the truth, Soft Serve, it was kind of fun. One has to enjoy the 4E concept. Our DM was very cool and the group was highly motivated. No wall flowers in the group. We got in and started rolling right away. Not much role-play involved. Guess I should look for or start a 4E Encounters thread.

Check out my signature! DMs of the cosmos, UNITE!:director:

Soft Serve
03-31-2010, 12:27 PM
We need a group or movement. No longer will D/GM's be paying for za after putting in hard work on a game everyone enjoys.

tesral
03-31-2010, 12:34 PM
Agreed.

cplmac
04-01-2010, 12:50 PM
We need a group or movement. No longer will D/GM's be paying for za after putting in hard work on a game everyone enjoys.

What about the person or persons who are providing the group with a place to meet and play the game. If it is at their house, chances are that they had to spend time preparing for all the company. Not to mention the the water and other stuff used over the time frame of the game.

ak47
04-01-2010, 01:31 PM
ok this is a weird story and sad at the same time i will explain why kansas city and it metro area gaming has died and only 2 shops for table top games and one has banned rp games all together in there doors.
it was a few yrs ago at kamper arena they where having a fuzzy event fuzzy's for the people that dont know are people that dress like animals like dog cats loins foxes wolfs ex. and behave as such when in that custom. during this event some of the people that attended played dnd so they went to a gaming shop (i will not say name because its still one out of 2 open but has banned rp games and dont want to give it any bad press again) these people played dnd in there customs this shop also tailored to little kids like games like yugioh during one of there game sections a kid little prob no older than 4 or 5 saw one of the guys in that dnd group playing wearing a dog custom so the kid thought dogie and went to pet it (the story and news never said where this kids guardian or parent was through this incident) and guy started to growl as a dog would that didn't want petting being a young kid the child didn't stop so the guy in costume went off and bit the kid and drew blood. well i really dont have to say the carnage that happened after that other than a massive fight between fuzzy's and all the male adults in shop sense then dnd rp and such has had a dogma of this fact in area and ensue a metro area that had 10 or more shops are now down to 2 with one banned all rp games fully. the area hasn't recovered sense then about gaming and such most people that do play still play behind closed doors now and very very apprehensive and and seclusive about new players in there group. as u can see by some off my post i am a gammer but lack a group finding one in area is hard because of this my old group worked at same job together and got promotided and moved and sense then for 2 yrs been trying to find one.

Otakar
04-01-2010, 02:51 PM
ok this is a weird story and sad at the same time......

That is some crazy stuff.

ak47
04-01-2010, 02:59 PM
That is some crazy stuff.
yes i know i am trying to find a old news article on it from kcstar or one of the new stations local on tv been digging through there archives but not remembering the exact date is making it tough when i do find it i post link k

APN
04-01-2010, 05:38 PM
First post on here so Hi everyone.

Seen a few of these "Gaming dead" style posts on every forum. It is pretty grim, I'll admit. When I started playing (when I was 10, around 28 years ago) computers were crap (Atari VCS for games, 8 bit stuff for praying a tape recorder would load a load of screeching noises up so you could move blobs around on a portable tv etc) so RPGs were new, massive and the thing to do for a lot of teenage boys (and some girls). Times change, computer games rose to prominence with various systems coming and going (8 bit stuff, Amiga, PC, Consoles etc) and took over for many people as easier pick up, play and put down entertainment without lugging mountains of books round. You could also argue the PC as a gaming platform is dying out - nowhere near as many mags or games for the PC these days, but WOW proves there's life in the old dog yet, even if no one else managed to get near in terms of success (save the Sims franchise, maybe, and one or two others.)

Point is, everything seems to come and go in cycles, maybe RPGs did peak in the 80s and early 90s, now on a decline to a certain degree, certainly as far as published stuff goes. On the other hand PDFs are a growing market so perhaps that's the way RPGs will live on?

Maybe we should ask "How do we keep gaming alive?" rather than "Is Gaming dead?". Someone might come up with a great idea on a forum like this and run with it, or an enterprising publisher might pick it up. Well... you never know. Stranger things have happened.

I think interactive gaming tablets, like a touchscreen PC that handles all the rolls, sound effects, maps, images, character records and pdfs for a number of systems would be great, buy modules on usb stick or DVD and run em in the machine. I can't see it happening right now (the ipad isn't the leap forwards I was hoping it'd be...) but as long as thousands of people frequent forums every day and put time and effort into gaming, there'll always be some part of it kept alive.

e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n94E3IeBquY

(There's various videos like that with the gaming surface thing)

I'd love to have a go at something like that, but it's taking something away from traditional gaming (no mountains of inch thick books, dice etc). Would it get new players in (and more importantly, their money, keeping the industry alive)?

I've no idea, but RPGs will only die if people stop playing them. They'll be around in one form or another for a long time yet, just maybe not the form you're used to...

(sorry if I bored anyone with that, just never replied to any of those Gaming dead posts before and seem to come across them in every forum I join, so stuck my 10p in. I'll shut up now.)

ak47
04-01-2010, 05:50 PM
First post on here so Hi everyone.

Seen a few of these "Gaming dead" style posts on every forum. It is pretty grim, I'll admit. When I started playing (when I was 10, around 28 years ago) computers were crap (Atari VCS for games, 8 bit stuff for praying a tape recorder would load a load of screeching noises up so you could move blobs around on a portable tv etc) so RPGs were new, massive and the thing to do for a lot of teenage boys (and some girls). Times change, computer games rose to prominence with various systems coming and going (8 bit stuff, Amiga, PC, Consoles etc) and took over for many people as easier pick up, play and put down entertainment without lugging mountains of books round. You could also argue the PC as a gaming platform is dying out - nowhere near as many mags or games for the PC these days, but WOW proves there's life in the old dog yet, even if no one else managed to get near in terms of success (save the Sims franchise, maybe, and one or two others.)

Point is, everything seems to come and go in cycles, maybe RPGs did peak in the 80s and early 90s, now on a decline to a certain degree, certainly as far as published stuff goes. On the other hand PDFs are a growing market so perhaps that's the way RPGs will live on?

Maybe we should ask "How do we keep gaming alive?" rather than "Is Gaming dead?". Someone might come up with a great idea on a forum like this and run with it, or an enterprising publisher might pick it up. Well... you never know. Stranger things have happened.

I think interactive gaming tablets, like a touchscreen PC that handles all the rolls, sound effects, maps, images, character records and pdfs for a number of systems would be great, buy modules on usb stick or DVD and run em in the machine. I can't see it happening right now (the ipad isn't the leap forwards I was hoping it'd be...) but as long as thousands of people frequent forums every day and put time and effort into gaming, there'll always be some part of it kept alive.

e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n94E3IeBquY

(There's various videos like that with the gaming surface thing)

I'd love to have a go at something like that, but it's taking something away from traditional gaming (no mountains of inch thick books, dice etc). Would it get new players in (and more importantly, their money, keeping the industry alive)?

I've no idea, but RPGs will only die if people stop playing them. They'll be around in one form or another for a long time yet, just maybe not the form you're used to...

(sorry if I bored anyone with that, just never replied to any of those Gaming dead posts before and seem to come across them in every forum I join, so stuck my 10p in. I'll shut up now.)

i agree as long as players(consumers) keep wanting to spend money and get joy out of it the will never die just switch forms of play with times as long as theirs want there will be a slot for it its up to use like in last post about what happened people haven't stopped playing just went underground and at the same time trying to bring the good of it back to public eye just not as easy as most people think it may be. also i wold love to play on that table i have also seen stuff about altered reality stuff done with lasers and smoke on table kinda like holo deck on star trek but no true form just looks but this is just early stages no prototypes on market unlike vr table i think his type of gaming wold be fun and maybe in time true vr will be out and stable and cheap that would be my dream to play dnd in but non the less good point