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Webhead
02-10-2010, 09:52 PM
So, who's gotten a chance to GM/play the latest edition of WFRP?

What are your impressions of it thus far?

What are your most/least favorite aspects of the game design?

Is there any other information about your experience that you would like to share?

I have run a few sessions thus far and will share my thoughts in more depth later. For now, let me hear from the rest of you!

Pk1305
02-16-2010, 02:57 PM
I got to play a test event of the game, not a real story but a look at the mechanics and a very mild sampling of flavor. I think the mechanics are adequate if a little complicated. Frankly, changing some d10s and d6s into a new set of dice doesn't warrant the $100 price tag and while I love the world of Warhammer, I think the RPG flavor was significantly better in the 1st edition before everything had to line up with the battles game. I think the setting in first edition is easier to take seriously and role play a darker more interesting story and I think it is much better fleshed out. I was very disappointed with the lack of classes like the Engineer and Druid as an example. If I found a group for 3rd edition and couldn't find one for 1st I would play but I am still much more interested in finding a group for 1st.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
02-16-2010, 05:55 PM
I would agree that WFRP1E is and will always be the best, but i have found, with some houseruling, that i can make WFRP2E pretty dark, gritty, unfair, unbalanced, with gratuitous amounts of gore and innards commonplace.

Move out here, I'll get a WFRP1E game going tomorrow, Pk1305.

I live in the Inland Empire of Southern California, and it seems that no one role plays out here. All the gamers live a hour away, being L.A., Orange County, Temecula, and Palm Springs.

Oh well, i will hold onto hope that someone is interested in a once a week game. Anyone in the area and is interested, contact me asap.

Hey Webhead, I'll get back to you re: WFRP3E as soon as i pick myself up a copy. As of right now, my fundage for said copy has been spent in my Vette repairs. I'll try to get some updates for 3E by March.

Anyone else with experiences to share regarding WFRP3E? We'd love to read your opinions.

Webhead
02-16-2010, 07:01 PM
Regarding the three editions, I always preferred the "pre-Storm of Chaos" style of 1st and 3rd Ed. to the "post-Storm" setup of 2nd.

Mechanically, 1st edition had a major hiccup for me: wizards.

I find the way that 2nd and 3rd Ed. treat wizards and the colleges of magic (and spellcasting in general) to be a great improvement.

I've never followed the battle game in the slightest, so I couldn't comment upon how it has or hasn't influenced the different editions of the RPGs.

3rd Ed. has really surprised me with some truly fantastic game design on the whole. I like the percentile systems of 1st and 2nd Ed. but 3rd Ed. has become my go-to fantasy RPG and finally convinced me that I no longer have use for (or interest in) D&D.

I would happily play any edition of WFRP (1st, 2nd or 3rd) to this day, but there are a lot of design decisions of 3rd that really make my inner gamer/GM smile. Yes, it needs more expansions but it really says something that I am actually looking forward to future releases in the line...this coming from a gamer who is a notorious "one corebook to rule them all" kind of guy.

From the sound of it, I will be starting a regular campaign (as opposed to a series of irregular one-offs) with my game group within the next week or two. I am looking forward to it.

More specifics to come later...

Pk1305
02-17-2010, 07:33 PM
As much as I want to find a high quality game, moving to California isn't much of an option. I agree that it is hard to find good gamers though, I would love to find a reliable story driven campaign with a creative GM in the Milwaukee area but they are hard to come by out here for anything but D&D, which holds almost no interest for me at all.

As for the issue with Wizards in 1st edition, I never considered them problematic at all. Some of the rules were a bit over the top - like being unable to ever learn a Demonology or Necromancy spell without being evil - but in general the system of magic points was way better than anything Dungeons and Dragons was doing in the early 80s allowing for more flexibility in your casting and having a variety of other skills to draw upon. I am not a fan of the "colors" of magic situation frankly and haven't had a chance to try 3rd edition magic at all.

Webhead
02-17-2010, 08:06 PM
...I would love to find a reliable story driven campaign with a creative GM in the Milwaukee area but they are hard to come by out here for anything but D&D, which holds almost no interest for me at all.

I hear ya. I have been very fortunate, especially of late, as I've encoutered a large number of gamers who are interested in campaigns other than D&D.


As for the issue with Wizards in 1st edition, I never considered them problematic at all. Some of the rules were a bit over the top - like being unable to ever learn a Demonology or Necromancy spell without being evil - but in general the system of magic points was way better than anything Dungeons and Dragons was doing in the early 80s allowing for more flexibility in your casting and having a variety of other skills to draw upon.

I agree with this. I just found the 1st Ed. systems for magic to be a bit wonky and much prefer the "color college" design to offer preferable setting flavor. It helps magic feel even more unique than other D&D-esque fantasy RPGs, which is one of the weightiest factors for me and the fantasy genre.


I am not a fan of the "colors" of magic situation frankly and haven't had a chance to try 3rd edition magic at all.

3rd Ed. uses the "8 Colors" design and is (basically) a magic-point system. Mages have to channel magical power and then expend it when casting spells.

Pk1305
02-17-2010, 08:15 PM
Yeah, I guess I just liked the flavor a bit better in 1st edition more than anything else - Sigmar was a patron Deity of the Empire but had no powers. His Priests had no spells. There were still Druids - something that made Humans kick butt and had flavor. I liked Zoats and yes, rapist Fimir, a species that had a real reason for being "evil". The only thing that really sucked in 1st edition in my eyes was the massive imbalance with elves.

MortonStromgal
02-17-2010, 09:11 PM
I just cant bring my self to shell out the $100. Though I can see the apeal of custom dice games after Desolation. We are using heroscape attack dice for that game and it works AWESOME! I haven't had this much fun since Vampire the Dark Ages came out.

Webhead
02-22-2010, 08:47 PM
I just cant bring my self to shell out the $100.

There are many places selling it for considerably cheaper. Amazon sells the set for $62.97 with a free shipping option.


Though I can see the apeal of custom dice games after Desolation. We are using heroscape attack dice for that game and it works AWESOME! I haven't had this much fun since Vampire the Dark Ages came out.

Very interesting. I'll have to look into that. I'm really grooving to the custom dice of WFRP3E. They are very intuitive to use and read and can tell a surprisingly deep story when you want them to.

MortonStromgal
02-22-2010, 11:55 PM
I don't know if they are going to come out with custom dice or not but having odds be failures and evens be successes was just wonky so when the GM realized he had oh say 50 or so heroscape attack dice which are already marked 50/50 we started using them and it is AMAZING!

Webhead
02-23-2010, 08:47 PM
I don't know if they are going to come out with custom dice or not but having odds be failures and evens be successes was just wonky so when the GM realized he had oh say 50 or so heroscape attack dice which are already marked 50/50 we started using them and it is AMAZING!

Is that to say that the core mechanic of Desolation works on an "odds/evens" system?

fmitchell
02-23-2010, 09:14 PM
Is that to say that the core mechanic of Desolation works on an "odds/evens" system?

Yes. It's "Ubiquity" the same system as Hollow Earth Expedition: roll a number of any dice you have around, count evens (or is it odds?).

The makers of HEX sell "Ubiquity Dice" (http://www.exilegames.com/access/dice.html), d8s marked and color coded to substitute for one, two, or three d2s. Two blues (3d2) and two reds (2d2), added together, represent d6s/d10s/etc. rolled as even/odd. I have a set, because I like funky dice.

Webhead
02-25-2010, 07:21 PM
Yes. It's "Ubiquity" the same system as Hollow Earth Expedition: roll a number of any dice you have around, count evens (or is it odds?).

Ah, I gotcha. I didn't realize that Desolation was also a Ubiquity game.

MortonStromgal
02-26-2010, 09:43 AM
I don't own HEX but the Desolation magic system is Mage meets Shadowrun Drain. Otherwise I think its just strait Ubiquity.

MortonStromgal
07-06-2010, 05:12 PM
What are your impressions of it thus far? The game seams really solid but swingy. Its interesting that its feels as swingy as it does and still uses a dice pool. I think this is due to the challenge and misfortune being dice rather than set numbers. What are your most/least favorite aspects of the game design? I like that they moved to a single unified mechanic for everything. I dislike that everything is on cards ONLY. The cards are great but the information should also be in the book. Is there any other information about your experience that you would like to share? I think due to the way the information is presented that it has a relatively steep learning curve compared with 2e. However I think the mechanics themselves are better in most situations. There are few things I think hinder the game like progress track but mostly it is an improvement

fmitchell
07-06-2010, 05:57 PM
Our GM (Webhead, above) has converted our characters to WFRP 2, to play out the remainder of our WFRP 3 scenario. Part of his decision probably stemmed from the more than a month when we played fill-in games because a player wasn't available. (He later dropped out.) Problems we had with the game mechanics themselves, though, include:


Definitions of actions, talents, etc. EXCLUSIVELY on cards.

Remembering to reduce recharge tokes on all talents ... and not accidentally sweeping them into your fortune pool or fatigue/stress area.

A profusion of cards, tokens, Conservative/Reckless tracks, etc. that took up a lot of table real estate in front of each player.

The difficulty of figuring out probabilities of success based on how many of each die type occur in a roll. (Compare to d20, 2d6, 3d6, Xd6, etc., where we math-heads can at least eyeball the probabilities.)


There are innovative designs in WFRP, but slamming them all together is just a bit much: career cards, action cards, talent cards, wound cards, Small But Vicious Dog cards, spell cards, stance tracks, recharge tokens, fortune tokens, fatigue tokens, stress tokens, ... ugh.

If I were designing my own game, I'd limit myself to the following:


A unified dice pool, perhaps with one to three dice types.

Visual aids for abstract range and distance relationships (i.e. the stand-up figures and location cards), which are brilliant.

Maybe the Stance Meter, with corresponding pool consequences

Optional cards to represent talents, conditions, and spells.

A distinct design for each type of token used, if any ... with provisions to just keep track on a piece of scratch paper. (I prefer keeping track of hit points, magic points, etc. by subtracting tokens: much less erasing, and it's easier to tell how bad off you are at a glance.)

Also, any components beyond character sheets would be reusable with other games (what I call the Cheapass Principle (http://www.cheapass.com/about/index.html)).

Webhead
08-04-2010, 12:33 AM
Indeed. I had decided to convert things back to 2E for several reasons, not the least of which being the financial investment that would be required to get the most out of WFRP 3E at this point.

I still feel that there is a lot of good design going on with 3E but definately agree with Fmitchell in that when all thrown into the mix together, it can become overkill.

As I'm generally a fan of RPGs that keep things fast, simple and uncluttered, I had decided that, at least for now, 2E is a better foundation to work from. I've considered converting certain concepts over from 3E to 2E (things like the "abstract" range system and the idea of "boons & banes") but haven't had much time to devote to it at this stage.

WFRP 2E isn't a perfect system but it does what it sets out to do just fine and it has plenty of options for players and GMs without the need for tons of expansion books. I also find that I have some preferences for 2E's critical wound system over 3E's even though the former does have a bit more of an "all-or-nothing" feel to it.

MortonStromgal
08-05-2010, 11:29 AM
Will you be buying the new core books? FFG listened to our grumbling and is offering the books with more stuff, errata, better examples, and tokenless. It will be compatible with the current box set so you can play either.

yukonhorror
08-05-2010, 11:42 AM
Will you be buying the new core books? FFG listened to our grumbling and is offering the books with more stuff, errata, better examples, and tokenless. It will be compatible with the current box set so you can play either.


Does that mean it won't have cards and such?? All info will be in the book?

That should bring the cost down. Do you know when that will be available, what the book will be called, and where to get it?

Webhead
08-05-2010, 09:38 PM
Will you be buying the new core books? FFG listened to our grumbling and is offering the books with more stuff, errata, better examples, and tokenless. It will be compatible with the current box set so you can play either.

I was not aware such a thing was in the works. It would be interesting to see. I would have to flip through a copy before I could decide whether or not it was worth picking up.