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View Full Version : Homebrew: Considering removing Jump from Acrobatics and adding to Climb (rename Climb to Agiliy)???



harmor
01-30-2010, 09:44 PM
Our group is contemplating removing Jump from the Acrobatics skill and adding it to the Climb skill and then renaming this meta skill to "Agility" (its a work in progress).

In 3.5 Jump, the skill, was Strength based, but now Acrobatics is Dex based and to our group we believe Jump has more to do with your character's Strength than your Dexterity.

/thoughts

Dr Berry
01-31-2010, 09:34 AM
Yeah I had wondered about this too when I first started picking up Pathfinder. It is probably a Strength-based skill, although Dex is a conceivable alternative. To me, it just seems like an over-simplification of different skills--not everyone who is good at a long jump can do a backflip.

Personally, I think it would make even less sense to fold Jump in with Climb, since these are two completely unrelated skills. However, maybe Jump deserves a skill of its own.

harmor
01-31-2010, 11:06 AM
We did consider making it a separate skill, but as you know we have less skill points to play around with.

THEWIZARD
07-18-2010, 12:57 PM
Our group remade all skllis of the pathfinder, onde of them was copied from 4.0 DD, we merge climb/ swim/ jump to a skill called Athletics (STR) mod. So I think it will be better to use athletics for your group instead of a simple climb. ;)

Mason2501
07-19-2010, 05:16 PM
Don't don't "lose" skill points vs 3.5 dnd as class to class compare. In fact you mostly likely end up with more bonus points from class skills.

Personally I dislike the 4.0 skill list. Just too few skills.

I see don't your jumping has anything to do with climbing or swimming. Keep them separate.

I do see Jumping, Tumbling, Balancing all mixed into Acrobatics. Makes easy for those Asian movie like rogues to focus on DEX.

So I like what Pathfinder did. Now if you what to comes up with a distance base house rule that also factors strength don't see that as an issue.

Remember Pathfinder tries to put the fun back into D&D.

THEWIZARD
07-20-2010, 11:49 AM
Don't don't "lose" skill points vs 3.5 dnd as class to class compare. In fact you mostly likely end up with more bonus points from class skills.

Personally I dislike the 4.0 skill list. Just too few skills.

I see don't your jumping has anything to do with climbing or swimming. Keep them separate.

I do see Jumping, Tumbling, Balancing all mixed into Acrobatics. Makes easy for those Asian movie like rogues to focus on DEX.

So I like what Pathfinder did. Now if you what to comes up with a distance base house rule that also factors strength don't see that as an issue.

Remember Pathfinder tries to put the fun back into D&D.
I agree in part with you...

1) we reduce the amount of skill points gained for level - this solve the extra bonus of skills
2) we are adjusting fun with speed and simple play, this is the motivation to remade the skills (i wil post them here later)
3) I too disliked 4.0, but are absorving some good ideas
4) Jump can be found in acrobatic skills sometimes and on "our" athletic skill. Jump / Climb / Swim are related with ATHLETICS we see in that way.

And off course this I agree wit you... as we simplify rules we loose some fun, this are variants opposed proporcional

laughing.goblin
07-26-2010, 11:55 PM
I actually would go the other direction with this. I would argue that Acrobatics and Climb are flip sides of the same coin, one being the strength option, the other is the dexterity option. Regardless of their name, I would say that you could use either to accomplish many of the same tasks, and rather then changing the rules system, I would instead leave it to the player to sell, and the GM to abjucate.

For example... Lets say two players, one strength based (we'll call him "Fighter"), and one dex based (we'll call him "Rogue") are standing on a ledge the breaks away. Fighter, with ranks in Climb, uses his physical might to hold on to the ledge and pull himself up. Rogue, with ranks in Acrobatics, uses his quick reaction time to snag a decent handhold and swing his himself up from the edge. If I was running this scenario, while I might initially ask for climb checks, I would likely fully allow a player to make an acrobatics check instead if they asked.

thegriffins1234
08-02-2010, 08:40 AM
Did this thread go off topic? Speaking strictly about Jump checks I would say don't mess with the rules. There are LOTS of things that real world logic, physics and science would countermand; that doesn't mean you should adjust the rules, it means you should adjust perception of what "the world" is (speaking about your fantasy creation).

This is the old problem of "the monsters in the next room can surely hear the PCs killing the boss, shouldn't they run in to help them?". The answer of course is, was the design intended to have the boss get back-up. Same is true for rules in the book, balance and playability have been discussed, play-tested, examined and decided. I wouldn't go messing with them too much.

wizarddog
08-03-2010, 12:25 PM
It really depends on how the game defines abilities. In this case (In pathfinder), the strength score is not a determinate on jumping distance as the dexterity score. And maybe that is more accurate. I'm not a strong person, but I certainly can leap a lot higher than people with upper body strength. Why? Because I'm lean and have great strength in my legs.

For a PC character, the scores of their ability scores reflects the type of athlete they are. A PC with a high strength and average or low dexterity could be "beefy", strong but uncoordinated; perfect for linebacker. While a PC with good strength and dexterity is lean and muscular in all areas; perfect for basketball player. A PC with good CON,STR, and DEX could make a good track and field.

Strength does play a part in jumping, even if the ability mod is based on dexterity and that is through carrying capacity.

That said, you can do anything you want in the game to change it. I just don't want people to rush and assume strength (as defined by the game) alone determines jumping.

Guardian
09-03-2010, 05:38 PM
I consider removing both Jump and Tumble from Acrobatics. There's too little skills for skill people (rogues, bards). I'd leave Stealth the way it is, add back in Use Rope and Search, turn Perception into Notice and bring back Decipher Script and Gather Information.

Utgardloki
09-12-2010, 12:50 PM
My take on skills is to add skills on a whim, and allow multiple skills to be used for a given situation. So if a Strength-based character wants to take Jump as a Strength skill, I'd let her. Other characters could continue to use Acrobatics.

This leads to a complication of whether a skill is over or under specialized. In general, it would be harder to do things with a more general skill than with a more specific skill, but also in general, PCs might want to consider that since you can jump around using Acrobatics, they should consider whether they want Jump as a specific skill. On the other hand, for a high strength, low dexterity character this might make sense.