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Chu
01-12-2010, 12:32 PM
I myself find the 4th edition a bit tutti frutti, and WoW-ish compared to the 3.5 edition. But anyways, I still like some mechanics. When it comes to races, it would have been cool to play a witcher (witcher from the game "The Witcher"). I believe that it would be awesome to play one. Do you have any ideas of what merits this race would have? I thought of +2 to strength and +2 to fortitude. What do you think? requirements, flaws, skills and other?

It would be really helpful :)

wizarddog
01-12-2010, 05:21 PM
Well first you need to define if Witchers are a race or a class, as I looked at the entries for the Witcher and it follows mechanics for a class. However, it is not to say you could not build it as a race, so here we go.

Decide what class a Witcher would be best suited for. Strength and Constitution do fit with the Witcher's abilities and that would make the a good witcher good Fighter and Warden. However, from the pictures, it shows the witcher wears pretty light armor so, a Warden would be the best choice for the Constitute buff to the AC. Personally, I think the character may fit more of striker build like the Avenger and should get the ability scores associated with those builds. But I have not seen the show or read any novels so I am going by what I am reading.

I would give them also Longsword Proficiency, and +2 to Arcane and Dungeoneering checks (for making potions/alchemical items and identify Monsters) , Speed of 6, +5 racial save on disease, and automatically know Alchemy Feat. And maybe even +1 Will defense sense they are suppose to have no emotions.

For an racial encounter power you want to have something that reflects their abilities. Not knowing exactly what those are you will want to create one that mimics their abilities in game and in the stories utilizing potions. Just as long as the power is balanced to the other races.

Karrius
01-12-2010, 05:40 PM
Playing through the game now, still very early on, but here's my take:

+2 Str, +2 Int or Wis
Medium Size
6 square speed
Normal vision
Languages: Common
+2 Arcana, +2 Endurance
Immunity to all diseases
Witchers begin the game with (whatever the alchemy feat is? the one that lets you make alchemy stuff).
Witchers gain a +4 bonus to all Monster Knowledge checks.



And then, give them no power. This way, they're best when taking Fighter, Swordmage, Ranger, and Warden, but still good for Avengers, melee clerics, and wizards to a lesser extent. Exactly where they should be.

Farcaster
01-12-2010, 06:17 PM
I know nothing about the game that you are taking the Witcher from, but I'd say that the race you just built is probably a little too much for a 4e race. Some changes that I'd make to what Karrius posted would be to make the +4 knowledge check a variable bonus encounter power that increased a single knowledge check. I would also be very hesitant about giving the race any sort of immunity. Rather, you might give a racial feat that gives them a bonus versus disease or allowed them to have an extra opportunity to save versus diseases. Perhaps at the epic tier you might give them the opportunity to become immune.

Karrius
01-12-2010, 10:06 PM
I had considered making it an encounter power, but it just felt weird. And it's not like a bonus to monster knowledges or an immunity to disease will be overpowered. It just looks, and "feels" overpowered.

emblasochist
01-13-2010, 05:55 PM
Uh... Monster knowledge, if you know what you are fighting and haven't memorized the MM, can make a world of difference... It tells you, with a sufficiently high check, the defenses, immunities, and a bunch of other useful information about the monster in question. A flat always on +4 or higher is not easy to come by for ANYTHING in 4e, especially as it relates to multiple different skills or other game attributes. In rare cases, a race might get a +5 bonus to saving throws against charm, for instance, but such a bonus is pretty much the only bonus given.

Personally, I see it from the viewpoint that if you were really set on making Witchers playable in 4e as closely to the book/game as possible, it should be a bloodline feat series. I am currently in the process of making all the feats and balancing the whole thing and hope to have it up in this thread by Saturday...

Blydden
01-14-2010, 02:04 PM
Sadly, I have never played the game so I have no idea how that race would work.

All I know of The Witcher is a review from my favorite critic. :3

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/22-The-Witcher

Anyway, I agree with Farcaster's ideas.

Maybe make it +5 to endurance checks versus disease with a +1 Fortitude bonus. (Like the eladrin's +5 versus charm and +1 to will.)

emblasochist
01-14-2010, 07:20 PM
That guy is a tosser... He's extremely critical of EVERY game he plays... Makes me think he's got the wrong hobby? Anyway, the Witcher plot makes it clear that it would be better served as a bloodline with a number of feats that associate primarily to the two handed heavy blades in the game, seeing as how the main character almost exclusively uses two hands while in combat, and has a great deal of things that relate to monster knowledge. They are, however, in my opinion, just not going to be fun to play; the game had the character see little character development and only really had a plot that ends unfulfilling, and some sexual encounters that are very tame in their nature, and that gameplay from the game would probably translate in my mind to a boring cad with a motivation to cure his amnesia while he's fighting off monsters of all sorts that instead of going with his most important motivation, settles for an ill-fated relationship that will end either with the character's death, or with the woman leaving him, whichever were to happen within 5 years...

That said, if you like that, by all means. I think that I would rather play a Grey Warden-esque character instead; a person that doesn't, in my mind, WANT to be a monster slayer, and just wants to go see the world with his/her romantic interest, but ends up a hero/heroine anyway.

Chu
01-15-2010, 11:21 AM
That said, if you like that, by all means. I think that I would rather play a Grey Warden-esque character instead; a person that doesn't, in my mind, WANT to be a monster slayer, and just wants to go see the world with his/her romantic interest, but ends up a hero/heroine anyway.

Well I want to play a witcher but, that does not mean that every witcher is like Geralt. It's like saying we all are Michael Jackson. A Witcher is a strong character that has better primal instincts when it comes to monster fighting, alchemy. Also thay have improved fighting technique and immunity to deseases. I'm not saying he have to be EPIC.. only a stronger race. For that matter he/her can have a penalty on lets say, all social skills or whatever...

emblasochist
01-16-2010, 11:32 AM
Maybe it is just that English isn't your native tongue, but I keep saying that Witchers aren't a race; they are humans that drink a potion that changes their physical makeup. Just like Vampire isn't a race in 4th edition, so should Witcher not be a race.

Karrius
01-17-2010, 04:50 AM
The idea of "a stronger race" really doesn't work in 4e. Most of my comments won't apply, as I don't think you NEED a race for a special monster hunter unless you're trying to specifically use that source material or having a similiar group, and having a race for a single-character is a bit silly.

However, I also don't think just making Witcher a feat tree alone is a good idea. In 4e, feats that aren't part of the core "make-up" skills tend to be very low-powered, and not overly interesting. In order to stay true to the source material, they're going to have to be extremely resistant to disease (this is a must) and have very strong monster knowledge. The second part is a problem, because classes like fighters flat-out don't get Dungeoneering and Arcana. And expecting a character to spend two feats, just to be significantly worse than the wizard at it, isn't going to work.

Chu
01-19-2010, 02:24 PM
Fine, I see your points of view. But what if we make it as a class. The class would then be specialized in alchemy and dungeoneering? I know you have spun around this in previous posts. Thanks for all the replies everybody :). But what power should the class have then?

Karrius
01-20-2010, 12:52 AM
The class I can see. Alchemy stuff easily fits into the power structure (Daily Utility Power: Cat Potion. Drink and gain darkvision 60' until your next extended rest, or 2 hours).

Really, how you want to do it depends on what the goal is, and how much time and effort you want to get out of it. Do you want to write it up just for fun? To use in a specific Witcher-based campaign? To have a Witcher-style class for one character? To port the Witcher organization to your game (a good idea, if you just remove the Witcher hate, IMO)?

wizarddog
01-20-2010, 02:58 PM
Have you considered making the Witcher a build, class ability or paragon for the Artificer? I don't know a lot about the class but seems you could start there for some ideas.