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Lorena_F_Palin
01-04-2010, 05:18 PM
OK, So I'm new to these boards and haven't played any RPGs aside from afew boxed D&D-ish boardgames in over a year. I'm looking to find a system, and either a group or some players that fit my needs.

I used to DM a very chaotic 3ed-3.5th ed campaign (there was no way I was going to spend another $100 on books...hence the mix) where I was continuousely trying to outsmart/limit suplements of some fanatical min-maxing players while trying to explain the rules to newcomers. I mostly just make my monsters use tactics, so being able to hack through everything was useless, and somone with a poorly made character could still be useful by giving good stratigic advice.

Eventually that group went south because the group got splintered over personal crap, and my amazingly nonsensical-over-forshadowed, way too epic plot involving mind flayers, and the demonic PR-man for the drow empire was somed up with an epic battle garenteed to kill the players. But it was fun.

Later, one of my friends ran an eboran campeign where I played a begiler who power gamed every area aside from combat. It was awsome, except the players of the melee types were board to death because myself and the melee rogue would always turn invisible, rob/assinate/bypass everything, and they'd only see action when we ran out of invisibility spells and fled from something very nasty.


My experience has tought me a couple of things:

First, complexity sucks! Like I personally can handle complex rules, but getting everyone on the same page is annoying.

Second, Stealth Rocks, but only for the stealthy ones. Ideally I'd like to GM or play in a campeign where EVERYONE is a sneaky git. Like it dosn't necessarely have to be like a cat burgler, but sort of like in modern warefare a basic soldier knows how to sneak around at night. So I'd like my game flow to be much more focused on infiltration and deception (what small, elite task forces are good at) and less on dungeon crawling.

Ideally I'd like to find a system that is fairly simple, but has alot of developement to it's stealth, deception, magic, alchemy/poison making, and ritual department (I just like the theme/idea of rituals- it makes the magic people less like walking artilery pieces, which should be the role of archers/actuall medivil artilery, and into something more like mad scientists and super-chemists).

I wouldn't mind doing it as D&D, though I'd want advice on which books, what houserules, and which version of the rules would be best. Something in the horror department might also be nice.

Thanks for any advice and help.

TAROT
01-04-2010, 08:52 PM
Urban Arcana for use with d20 Modern had Incantations, which was a form of ritual magic that anyone could perform by memorizing the right words and actions. (Knowledge - Occult)

Grim Tales which was a standalone low-fantasy game based on d20M had something similar. (Spellcraft)

Earthdawn is high-fantasy mixed with horror. Much of the magic is ritual, and even in combat, casters have to decide whether to spend a round weaving threads for a big spell, or get something weaker off fast.

Ars Magica is an alernate medieval Europe, where wizards spend seasons tinkering in their labs. Alchemy and ritual spells can have a big role here.

Qin: the Warring States has a lot of (Taoist) alchemy, and also a lot of high-powered kung fu.

-----

As for fantasy commandos, tell the players what the game is about and if they make a paladin in shiny armour with a white horse say, "This character is inappropriate." I'm pretty sure that I've seen a Savage Worlds setting book based around the concept, but I can't remember the name.

Richard Littles
01-04-2010, 08:57 PM
I'd recommend the Hero System because it lets you do anything you want it to do. You pick the options etc...

MortonStromgal
01-05-2010, 12:02 AM
Ideally I'd like to find a system that is fairly simple, but has alot of developement to it's stealth, deception, magic, alchemy/poison making, and ritual department (I just like the theme/idea of rituals- it makes the magic people less like walking artilery pieces, which should be the role of archers/actuall medivil artilery, and into something more like mad scientists and super-chemists).


I would say if comming from D&D 3.X the next logical step is Shadowrun. 4e is the current version and while it can be complex there are some simple cheat sheets.

Homepage
http://www.shadowrun4.com/
Cheat Sheets
http://pavao.org/shadowrun/cheatsheets/
Fan Forum
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?act=idx


There are much simpler systems but the way I see it D&D to Shadowrun is the natural progression. Plus being sneaky is what the game is all about and there is plenty of magic.

Lorena_F_Palin
01-05-2010, 10:42 AM
Shadowrun- The websight is set up like crap, but after wikipediaing it I like the general concept, but how fast does game play go (compared to 3ed ed D&D with several wizards/creatures with effects requiring saves and such)?

Also, it looks good, though the setting, while all the focus seams to be on this Ayn Randian distopia, how much room is there in it for smaller bits of depravity/adventure

I was thinking about starting the campeign, regaurdless of tech level of the setting, dealing with illeagal operations that are basically the magic equivelent of methlabs- like cheap, illeagal groups making blackmarket magic items that no sane society would want legal.

Like seriousely...why is magic just assumed to be legal in almost every setting? Rufees are illeagal in our society, so so should a charm spell or more powerful mind altering spells be illeagal in a fantisy one. You or I can't walk around with a rocket launcher, so why wouldn't authorities check spellbooks to see if there is any fireball spell in there?

Now, one of my issues is going to be designing a streamlined magic-servalence system. Like whatever system I use, magic is going to be regulated by the authorities. I need to do this streamlined, and make it logical, and make it so it isn't insanely overbearing, but so that if players keep pushing there luck they will have the law on them. Maby treat magic sensors like radar guns, smoke detectors, and video servalance cameras today? Like, low end ones are everywhere, and a blind eye to minor infractions is turned just because of the sheer volume of lthem, and it is possible to fool them, but the tricks to fool a magic detector at the shop allowing you to charm the clerk for a discount won't work if you want to summon a deamon outside of the govenor's house.

vampirewaltham
01-05-2010, 03:32 PM
A few comments on other people's suggestions:

I've only played the 3rd edition, but Shadowrun is the epitome of the "everyone is a sneaky rogue" game. Seriously... If you're not using stealth and trying to avoid a fair fight at all costs, you are going to die. It's deadly. On the other hand, it is a quite complex system and min-maxed characters will have a large power gap with non-min-maxed characters.

Earthdawn was actually a related game to Shadowrun way back in the day. I've never personally played it, but I hear it has a fair amount of complexity.

Urban Arcana and Grim Tales are meh. They're just another set of D&D-derivatives.

Ars Magica, in my opinion, is a good game for what it does, but it is very specifically a game about a cabal of wizards and their associates set in Middle Ages Europe. It is tailored very specifically to that and doesn't really do other things. It's magic system has a significant degree of complexity (and every player is expected to have a wizard), but the rest of the game less so. It is also non-traditional in that players are expected to make and play multiple different characters over the course of the game, rather than the usual one player/one character setup.

Hero is a very flexible system, but really, it is the pinnacle of complexity in game systems. It doesn't get more complex than it.

If you want reletively low complexity and a system that rewards the stealthy rogue types, my suggestion is either Basic Role-Play or World of Darkness.

Also, concerning your "why is magic never illegal?" comment: It is in some settings, just not many of the settings that come out of the D&D tradition. In Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (the second edition of which might actually be a pretty good suggestion for what you're looking for) all magic is illegal, except for a few types specifically sanctioned by the government. GURPS has a system for legalty ratings of equipment, which also applies to spells. And even in Shadowrun I think most magic is technically illegal... it's just that in the Shadowrun world nation-states as we know them today are pretty powerless, and dominant paradign has shifted to where corporations are more of less the rule. (And the corps are only going to call you on your magic use if you're using it in a way which damages their financial interests.)

Just some thoughts.

Richard Littles
01-05-2010, 03:42 PM
Hero is a very flexible system, but really, it is the pinnacle of complexity in game systems. It doesn't get more complex than it.

Hero is only as complex as the GM decides to make it. The complexity comes into play during character creation, but after that it's not very complex.

TAROT
01-05-2010, 09:59 PM
Earthdawn was actually a related game to Shadowrun way back in the day. I've never personally played it, but I hear it has a fair amount of complexity.

Related by fluff. There was Earthdawn, and then the magic went away and you got our world, and then the magic came back and you get Shadowrun. The systems never resembled each other remotely, but a few of the dragons and Horrors make an appearance in both. As for complexity, Earthdawn is on par with D&D.


Urban Arcana and Grim Tales are meh. They're just another set of D&D-derivatives.

Yeah, nothing to make you jump up and down and say OMG! But the OP is already familiar with d20 and these variants have rituals.


Hero is a very flexible system, but really, it is the pinnacle of complexity in game systems. It doesn't get more complex than it.

Never tried Aftermath! or Phoenix Command or FTL:2448, I take it. HERO is on the high end of medium complexity, the same place I rate D&D. It just puts its complexity in different places than D&D. HERO takes longer to make a character than D&D, but I've found that D&D generally takes longer to resolve actions in play than HERO.


Like seriousely...why is magic just assumed to be legal in almost every setting?

I think that it's generally assumed that if there are wizards, that they are the ones making the laws. You may not like it, but the dude can turn you into a toad if you make a fuss.

There was the Midnight setting for D&D3, which was built on the premise that Sauron got the ring and rules the land with an iron fist and bands or orcs roam the land with magic detectors beating on the small clusters of remaining elves and humans. (OK, it's not Sauron, but you get the idea.)

Lucifer_Draconus
01-06-2010, 03:03 PM
Another option is Rolemaster Express (including a few EA PDFs) is a rules-lite fantasy option. It can be rolled into RMC if you decide you like the basic system but want more complexity than RMX gives. People UNFAIRLY give Rolemaster crap, either they never played it but just read biased reviews on it or played it with a crappy GM. RMSS/RMFRPG is somewhat different but workable. But my group prefers RM2/C. But again if you don't want to spen $100 on a new ruleset , I'd try RM Express first & see if it's something you'd like. It costs $10+ postage online & add $2 per Express Addition PDF you decide you want, makes RMX a affordable fantasy option.

Plus the rules are easy to learn & execute in game. Skill rolls are % based. Add combined Skill % (including all racial or profession modifiers) + open ended d100 (%) +/- any situational modifiers = sum. A roll of natural roll of 96 (I think) & higher equates a up-roll (repeat for every natural 96+ roll) then add Skill % & all modifiers to get sum. The higher the number the better. Take sum & check apropriate chart... simple. RMX has only a few basic charts & will be easy to use. While RMC/RMSS/RMFRPG have alot more charts but shouldn't be too much harder to learn or use.

MortonStromgal
01-06-2010, 09:56 PM
Shadowrun- The websight is set up like crap, but after wikipediaing it I like the general concept, but how fast does game play go (compared to 3ed ed D&D with several wizards/creatures with effects requiring saves and such)?

Also, it looks good, though the setting, while all the focus seams to be on this Ayn Randian distopia, how much room is there in it for smaller bits of depravity/adventure

I was thinking about starting the campeign, regaurdless of tech level of the setting, dealing with illeagal operations that are basically the magic equivelent of methlabs- like cheap, illeagal groups making blackmarket magic items that no sane society would want legal.

Like seriousely...why is magic just assumed to be legal in almost every setting? Rufees are illeagal in our society, so so should a charm spell or more powerful mind altering spells be illeagal in a fantisy one. You or I can't walk around with a rocket launcher, so why wouldn't authorities check spellbooks to see if there is any fireball spell in there?

Now, one of my issues is going to be designing a streamlined magic-servalence system. Like whatever system I use, magic is going to be regulated by the authorities. I need to do this streamlined, and make it logical, and make it so it isn't insanely overbearing, but so that if players keep pushing there luck they will have the law on them. Maby treat magic sensors like radar guns, smoke detectors, and video servalance cameras today? Like, low end ones are everywhere, and a blind eye to minor infractions is turned just because of the sheer volume of lthem, and it is possible to fool them, but the tricks to fool a magic detector at the shop allowing you to charm the clerk for a discount won't work if you want to summon a deamon outside of the govenor's house.

Combat Speed. I would say in gerneral it is faster than D&D 3.X but perhaps a bit more work on the GMs end (at leased until you get a feel for what an average score is). I'll forgo prior editions of Shadowrun and stick to 4e. This is 90% of the time combat there are modifiers and special situations I am forgoing, the cheat sheets will run you through all the possibilities.

1.Everyone Rolls initiative play proceeds in order people with multiple actions go only once and wait for everyone before going again. So instead of having a Fighter attack at +15/+10/+5 all at the same time he goes with the +15 then waits for everyone before attacking with the +10.

2. The attacker then rolls d6 equal to his attribute+skill-/+any modifiers (range/wounds), he needs 5+, count all the 5+

3. The defender rolls a dodge (same idea as the attacker) if he gains equal or more successes the attack misses

4. If the defender did not succeed, calculate damage by taking the attackers successes over the defenders and adding the weapon damage

5. The defender tries to soak (attribute+armor) need 5+ again. Any extra damage goes to your damage track (about 9-15 pts, period) for every 3 pts of damage you take you take a -1 wound penalty to all actions.


There is certainly illegal magic in Shadowrun. And even some common spells that are illegal but most of your common spells are legal to use as long as its not breaking a normal law. In Shadowrun the cops have magic to. So buildings will have wards, Spirits under control of a mage guard perimeters and hellhounds may replace guard dogs. Plus the drain keeps PCs from slinging spells all day. Any time you cast a spell you have to roll to see if you take damage. Eventually the dice fail even the best of Sorcerers.

If you decide to buy, get the Anniversary Edition, its better laid out and has a few key changes (though I still have 2 house rules). All you need is the core book to play but they have a core set (unwired, arsenal, augmentation, runners companion, street magic) that is helpful depending on what type of characters or enemies you want to focus on. You may also consider picking up one of the Missions in PDF (adventures) as they can help you sort out how to get started. For you I would say get the Anniversary and a Mission or 3. Play a bit, if you like it pick up Street Magic, Augmentation and Arsenal (perhaps some more Missions or Seattle 2072). I think unwired and the runners companion can wait until your really comfortable with the game and plan on playing it for a long time.

Lorena_F_Palin
01-07-2010, 12:31 AM
Thanks everyone for the advice, I think I'll grab a used copy of shadowrun, seams up my ally.




I think that it's generally assumed that if there are wizards, that they are the ones making the laws. You may not like it, but the dude can turn you into a toad if you make a fuss.


Yeah, but I doubt said wizards would want a bunch of inexperienced wizards screwing around all the time and threatening their place in society. I mean I compare magic to chemestry in the real world (and in particular making explosives and drugs). Like it is possible to make gunpowder or meth in a home lab, but it's illegal, and if you get cought, your going to jail. Now the only reason people can make those at home is because you can't outlaw cold medicine or sulfur. Ingredients that don't have a mundane purpose (like lab chemicals that are ingredients for plastic explosives or LSD/MDMA) are regulated and watched carefully, especially when someone orders multiple chemicals that are ingredients for the same explosive/drug.

Like, I know for insance that a D&D 3.*ed fireball spell is equivalent to a rocket propelled grenade...and alot of the low level enchantment/illusion spells are about the equivalent of roofies. Both rocket propelled grenades and roofies are banned or require some sort of certification for civilian use in every developed country on earth.

MortonStromgal
01-07-2010, 10:25 PM
Just a word of warning if you get 1-3e the rules are very different than 4e and the rules tend to be not as well organized or well written. Personally I fip-flop between 2e & 3e for which one I like best but 4eA (A for Anniversary) is way easier for new people to grasp just because of the layout and writing. If you need any help deciphering an older edition just PM me or post on dumpshock.

Sneaksta
01-07-2010, 10:42 PM
Magic Legality Issues can be handled decently well in any Ruleset. Realm law? along with a magistrate, how about a low to mid level wizard constabulary in each locality? Crown Sponsored Wizards guild, where to legally use certain spells, you must be on the charter, and use of said spells are prohibitted in cities, towns and hamlets, and frowned upon any other time? Investigations of said spell usage... etc...

You can make it as simple or as complicated as you want to. Bottome line, instead of dragging people into learning a new system they may or may not want to use, it may be easier to just modify and use what you know.

As for other systems, We have 2 alternating games. D&D 3.5, and Vampire the Masquerade. Vamps is like modern Day Light to heavy horror depending, with a sneaky twist as to the fact you still want to hide your whole existence from humanity...

Our plan is to all pitch in and buy the Pathfinder ruleset. D&D 3.75 by all reviews, and more streamlined, better balanced for fun and speed gameplay and advancement, and anyone who has played 3/3.5 should pick it right up.

Unfortunately, Min/Max'ers are never gonna change unless you lay down a little law, or make them roleplay it out. Drub them in their own shortcomings rpg style, they just may get the hint to make a more well balanced character.....

Wheeew. hot air expelled for today..........

mnemenoi
01-08-2010, 12:29 AM
Ever considered Lankhmar in the 2nd edition setting? The books are great and have the dirty gritty feel while 2nd can be a bit of a simpler system. Whatever version you ended up adapting it to, I think its a great setting and might be something you enjoy.

Sneaksta
01-08-2010, 03:28 AM
Or maybe even Thieves World setting.... Very gritty as well, d20 set, and magic isn't over-running the system, and is still frowned upon greatly in most places.. although it seems to be very secular...

Just a couple more cents.........

Malruhn
01-10-2010, 12:01 PM
Lorena, at Pendamonium Books in Cambridge (http://www.pandemoniumbooks.com/) there is a large room downstairs that always has gamers in it. There is also a Meetup group for Boston area gamers (the group is pretty disorganized, but the spirit is there!).

I live up in Burlington - and would be happy to start something if you're interested. It seems like our gaming styles mesh pretty well. Drop me a PM. And: Have car, will travel! It's been over six months since I gamed and my dice hand is getting all trembly.

tesral
01-14-2010, 01:06 AM
Or maybe even Thieves World setting.... Very gritty as well, d20 set, and magic isn't over-running the system, and is still frowned upon greatly in most places.. although it seems to be very secular...

Just a couple more cents.........

I know Thieves World as a setting. I have the original boxed set. they featured several systems including D&D and AD&D, which tells you how old it is.

Was there a game done?

Sneaksta
01-14-2010, 05:32 PM
Hells Yeah Tesral, I got it because i liked the novel series so well. I have the Green ronin d20, 3.5 ruleset editionPlayers manual.. Only 1 I had seen. Had to have it, but haven't had a chance to play it or incorporate it into any game yet.

Cool.

tesral
01-14-2010, 05:46 PM
I remember Bob Aspirin talking about it before it came out and the books as well. Around the house somewhere. Enjoyable set.

pollen
02-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Stealth, fast, rules light and loads of options. That'd be Traveller (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpg/series.php?qsSeries=51) for SciFi and Treasure (http://www.treasurerpg.com/) for fantasy. Traveller costs but Treasure's free.

cigamnogard
02-16-2010, 08:45 PM
Warhammer 40k seems to have a few new RPG's out and it is gritty, lethal, and magic is outlawed.

rabkala
02-17-2010, 01:39 AM
It is Robert Aspirin to you Tesralie! You know no Bob, liar! know Bob, and you are no Bob! :lol:

Most of my worlds are a chaotic thieves world. Hey wait, were we talking warhammer? Ah, forghet that, it doesn't play well in video games.
:confused:

tesral
02-17-2010, 03:51 AM
It is Robert Aspirin to you Tesralie! You know no Bob, liar! know Bob, and you are no Bob! :lol:

Most of my worlds are a chaotic thieves world. Hey wait, were we talking warhammer? Ah, forghet that, it doesn't play well in video games.
:confused:

Actually it was Bob. He was a personal acquaintance. Filked many a night away with him.

cigamnogard
02-17-2010, 09:54 AM
..okay...

yukonhorror
02-17-2010, 10:30 AM
I read the first few, but skipped ahead after a while. Rolemaster=SUPER COMPLEX (in my opinion).

As for D&D. You are familiar with it. My suggestion is to have people make their characters, but let them know, it is mainly going to be focused on being sneaky, etc... Allow everyone to train in move silent/hide OR limit the classes to ones that have these as skills. The generic classes in the unearthed arcana supplement may REALLY help in terms of creating characters. Maybe start at higher level, and have each person have at least one level in a sneaky class (and make it so that sneaky class is considered a favored class).

I was really trying for a campaign like that actually, but I only could work out character creation logistics. I couldn't come up with a fun campaign.

FINALLY:

Ninjas and superspies. It isn't fantasy, but palladium is good about system integration. I can't remember complexity level, but because character creation is mostly random, it is hard to purposely min/max.

Sascha
02-17-2010, 11:56 AM
FINALLY:

Ninjas and superspies. It isn't fantasy, but palladium is good about system integration. I can't remember complexity level, but because character creation is mostly random, it is hard to purposely min/max.
Fairly complex. It's really not a random system, beyond attributes and skill bonuses; just about everything is chosen by the player. Almost every table in the book (or, at least, the copy I have - Revised, second printing) is labeled optional.

BayGuardian
02-17-2010, 10:24 PM
On the subject of legal magic in regards to Shadowrun, I've been a player and GM since the game came out and I can tell you they have adressed those issues excellently. Like anything, it all depends on where you are. In example, the UCAS (remains of US and Canada), generally tollerate magic, but there are issues in regards to legal evidence at trials and the use of mental manipualtion where magic is not acceptable or is in fact illegal. In the UK, every mage must give a blood sample to the government; this gives the government a material link to all practicioners so they can be tracked or captures from afar if necessary.

If you're going into Shadowrun, I would suggest the following books for 1/2e to help flesh things out. It takes a bit of work, but they are adapatble to 4e.

London Sourcebook
Aztlan Sourcebook
Grimoire (1st & 2nd ed.)
Awakenings: Magic in 2057

jade von delioch
02-26-2010, 03:05 PM
Try Savage Worlds. The core book, which has no setting attached, is only $10. The game is set up to be able to play any genre. It lite and fast. The rules are not complex, everyone can have stealth if they want (which is something that you stated that everyone in your game should have right?)- skills are not restricted like what you would find in a D&D game where you can only have this skill or that if you were X class. However, that being said there is a Conversion pdf to play savage dungeons (classic D&D) with savage worlds where it does restrict some what, but it all suggestive. You really don't need that pdf to play a D&D styled game.
The game has levels, kind of; they are not like what you find in D&D. They are not levels like level 1 level 2 level 3, ect. They are written down like: novice, seasoned, veteran, heroic, legendary. These are attained after every 20 xp gained. However, the characters can increase/gain one skill or attribute, or edge per 5 xp gained.
Combat is quick and easy as well. Check it out the Pinnacle entertainment groups website has a free quickstart that goes over the base rules check it out. I think this is what you are looking for.

ignimbrite
03-05-2010, 05:31 PM
First, complexity sucks! Like I personally can handle complex rules, but getting everyone on the same page is annoying.

Second, Stealth Rocks, but only for the stealthy ones. Ideally I'd like to GM or play in a campeign where EVERYONE is a sneaky git. Like it dosn't necessarely have to be like a cat burgler, but sort of like in modern warefare a basic soldier knows how to sneak around at night. So I'd like my game flow to be much more focused on infiltration and deception (what small, elite task forces are good at) and less on dungeon crawling.

Ideally I'd like to find a system that is fairly simple, but has alot of developement to it's stealth, deception, magic, alchemy/poison making, and ritual department (I just like the theme/idea of rituals- it makes the magic people less like walking artilery pieces, which should be the role of archers/actuall medivil artilery, and into something more like mad scientists and super-chemists).

I wouldn't mind doing it as D&D, though I'd want advice on which books, what houserules, and which version of the rules would be best. Something in the horror department might also be nice.

Thanks for any advice and help.

Have you looked into The Burning Wheel? It is one of the d6 type of games (like Whitewolf games) and is pretty rules light for players but kinda rules heavy for GM's as they have to decide a lot of DCs on the fly. It can be modern or medieval setting and lends itself well to lethal combat and lots of sneaking and roleplaying.

The other options would be Whitewolf's Vampire RPG, vampires can be very sneaky. The new system (Requiem) is a little different from Masquerade and I loved playing an Assamite Clan sneaky type in Masquerade.

Or Spy RPG, I haven't played this one, but it sounds like it is what you are looking for.

MortonStromgal
03-17-2010, 10:37 PM
I do not recommend Burning Wheel yet.

Burning Wheel is a great game for the right group but coming from D&D that like saying "Heh I got a suped up Honda Civic that I do fairly well in autocross I'm going to go drive an F1 at the le mans."

Vampire, Shadowrun, a bunch of others mentioned are all good stepping stones.

templeorder
03-19-2010, 08:48 AM
My vote would be Shadowrun for what you are looking for in terms of setting.

As for the rest - as a GM, pick and choose the rules you like, rip the rest out and go forward. Rules are so much less of a concern than setting - unless you are willing to spend a lot of time making your own. As long as you can adapt the rules to your scenarios and the type of detail you want, hack 'em up to suit and present theplayers with what they need to know. Heck, i built my own system so i could accomplish what i wanted - i don't recommend that for everyone.

And yea, legality of magic... well, in my world, psychics (effect by thought alone) are put to death. Faith - ritual and ceremony - is the most approved and prevalent of 'powers'. At least most magics require a lot of sound, motion, and or prep work (the "lower arts" to use my term - "higher arts" much less so). Legality is mostly [not all] about use, not possession. If its illegal to even practice magic, i'll bet that society would, in many cases, make it illegal to own a weapon. Any dangerous materials would be tightly controlled and audited. All the flavor you described would be dangerous to PC's... of course, that makes it that much more challenging (not getting caught) and fun.

jade von delioch
03-19-2010, 04:57 PM
If your going with Shadowrun I would do 3rd edition. 4th kind of killed it for me. Edge makes the game overpowered in many ways, with its exploding D6's. I had a friend who made a character that killed a powerful npc with nothing but a peanut through the brain.

tesral
03-20-2010, 12:40 AM
That happens when you find a peanut.

ignimbrite
03-20-2010, 09:34 AM
Death by peanut! That is *almost* as good as .... wait for it ...... death by teacup!

Remember Chronicle of Riddick - "let's play who's the better killer"? The peanut fits in perfectly with that tongue in cheek type atmosphere. Sadly if it was serious then the head exploding peanut is not so cool.