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Tibrand
10-12-2009, 08:08 PM
Hello America!

First: I am a Swedish citizen that have been lurking the forums here earlier, but now i need your help. To be honest, i am not sure if this is the right part of the forum to post this "help thread", secondly if you feel i am raping your language by my bad grammar, spelling or use of slang be an angel and understand that english is a second language for me and i am trying my best not to write like a cocaine kid.


I am pretty new to the dungeons and dragons rules, but i have been playing in the world of "Forgotten realms" earlier, my opinion is that there is no better high epic fantasy setting then Forgotten realms. Now with the only experience of DnD rules from computer games like Neverwinter nights 2 i am going to tryout dnd 3.5 pen and paper roleplaying. (and yes, my dungeons and dragons roleplaying group are a little bit conservative staying with 3.5 as 4.0 has reached this country aswell :), but our motto is "alteration is humilation").

the character i want to frame is a half-orc from the silver marches with neutral good alignment (with a background story in finding the "good" in life, a WIP novell iv been doing for a while). I picture my character as a Ranger (shaundakul worshipper) and a Barbarian as he is equally good with the bow and with the Bastard sword. I like characters with knowledge so i picture my character with skills in that. I also want the character to be a little bit sneaky and alert on the surroundings.

I really do hope this is not an unrealistic character that wants it all.
As a new player i would need your help in choosing skills, feets, classes etc. To best picture my character idea.

This is the rolled stats:

17, 14, 17, 10, 17, 15
i was thinking

STR 17, DEX 17, CON 15, INT 17, WIS 14, CHA 10.

Anyway i have no clue on how to make a good strategic character and we are to start at level 12 in our times of troubles campaign. Thank you for the help!

wizarddog
10-12-2009, 10:43 PM
Barbarians need to be chaotic in alignment so you will need to be chaotic good.

Usually its better to be a full ranger or a full barbarian because you trade off several things when you use their powers.

Your major issue is that a barbarian relies on strength (rage) while a ranger relies on dexterity (2 weapon fighting or archery). Usually it's better to concentrate one or the other but you can try other builds.

Now depending on the books you have allowed to you, will determine what exactly would be the best for optimization or for roleplay--depending the campaign you are playing. If it's more roleplay, then it becomes less of an issue for optimization. If it's combat intensive then you need to be effective.

When I talk about optimization I don't mean min/max so much as being Badass. So more information about your campaign would be good.

Tibrand
10-13-2009, 05:34 AM
Oh i thought the rules for barbarians was that they couldnt be lawfull?

I may use only official material from dnd 3.5 and i have access to more or less every book. We are having a roleplaying focused campaign set in the times of troubles. The campaign is home brewed so i dont know what "will happen" so to speech. Optimized for the campaign will thus be hard but i know we will face alot of the arcane and divine forces.

My idea of taking barbarian was because i want to be good with both longbow (ranger) and in close combat. Using the barbarian felt of roleplaying reasons best then as the barbarian class have the wilderness in common with ranger.

Also, i have rolled this (with DM watching) 17, 14, 17, 10, 17, 15 so with my idea on how to set them on the abilities is
STR 19, DEX 17, CON 15, INT 17, WIS 14, CHA 8.
And then not making the STR/DEX you mentioned earlier a problem

d-_-b
10-13-2009, 02:33 PM
The Ranger/Barbarian (RNG/BRB) is an excellent combo.

Since you will be restricted to light armor I would recommend a mithral breast plate. Since it only allows you to benefit from up to a +3 bonus to AC from DEX I'd not choose a DEX above 16.

I too love the look and feel of a bastard sword but in 3.5 it is an exotic weapon and you are not proficient with it unless you take it as a feat. You can use it in two hands as a martial weapon, though.

BTW Two Weapon Fighting has NOTHING to do with DEX, and you're completely right, Barbarians are merely restricted to non-lawful alignments.

Your stats should be: STR 17, DEX 15, CON 17, INT 14, WIS 17, CHA 10. After stat increases on lvl. 4,8 and 12 they should be: STR 18, DEX 16, CON 18, INT 14, WIS 17, CHA 10.

You can use a light shield as a light weapon and if you select the Improved Shield Bash feat you won't loose the shield bonus to your AC when doing so which means that you can be a Barbarian with a good AC:)

A magic light shield with a spike and the Bashing ability does as much damage as a long sword +1 ;) and confers a +2 shield bonus to your AC!

you should choose Ranger as your lvl. 1 class to maximize skill points. I recommend that you take four levels RNG at lvls 1,3,5 and 7. Five lvls BRB at 2,4,6,8 and 9, and then either stick with BRB or (my favorite) go for the Bloodhound prestige class from Complete Adventurer.

You won't have that many feats to select. You'll get five in all at lvls 1,3,6,9 and 12.

If you go with the light shield and sword build you should choose Improved Shield Bash (as stated). Power Attack is always useful. The Shield Specialist feat gives you an extra point of AC from your shield, so if you're going this way it is useful.

Page 154 in Player's Handbook lists some special attacks. If you plan to use them a lot there is a series of "Improved X" feats that will significantly improve your chances with them. If, however, you plan to do this I'd seriously recommend that you go with Human instead of Half Orc as this will give you access to the Jotunbrud feat from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting which grants a +4 bonus to most of these attacks aswell as for resisting them when you are on the receiving end.
Also, humans get extra skill points and an extra feat at 1st. lvl, which pays for the feat:)

Level 4 of the RNG class will give you an Animal Companion and the ability to cast a single 1st. lvl RNG Spell. As lvl 4 is also the last RNG lvl your animal companion will never evolve from here on so don't plan on using it as a front line fighter. Choose something that will help you track, like a Riding Dog or a Wolf -both have the "scent" ability which will help you track your quarry and both make for good role playing 'props'.

As you start play with 88000gp you have plenty of gold to buy good armor and weapons and you already have superior stats, so this build will allow you to be a serious front line fighter as well as a good ranged fighter.
As you have chosen the Barbarian class the truth is that most if not all of your fighting will be at the front line. This is where the Barbarians powers really come into play, and hiding in the bushes will be a sad waste of talent.

I hope this is of help:)
--- Merged from Double Post ---
IMO if you choose to stick with the Barbarian after lvl 9 you should screw the Rangers free Two Weapon Fighting feat and go for a two handed weapon and the Power Attack feat, get a Keen weapon with a good Crit. range -like a Falchion or a Great Sword- and just deal massive damage:)
This is more along the lines of the "classic" enraged beserker style barbarian for which there is a number of attractive prestige classes to choose from, such as Frenzied Beserker.

wizarddog
10-13-2009, 03:18 PM
Oh i thought the rules for barbarians was that they couldnt be lawfull?

You are correct. I pull that out of the air.

However, 2 handed fighting DOES have to do with Dex if he decides not to take it as a Ranger--since he wanted to good at archery as well and may decide to take ranger archery style feats rather than 2 weapon.

If he chooses Shield Bash option, he should take the feats for Agile Shield Fighter (PHB2) (Improved Shield bash, Shield specialization) which will allow you to use a heavier shield without a big penalty. And would increase your shield bonus by 2.

Unless you really want an animal companion, I would recommend taking a class alternative like Distracting Attack (PHB 2) if you take 4 levels in ranger.

You can also see if you want to take any substitution levels for half-orc barbarian (Races of Destiny) which can give you reckless charge, Insightful rage, and Two handed Strike. In that case, using a 2 handed weapon is most beneficial. However, it leaves you more vulnerable to being hit as a front line fighter.

My personal preference would be ranger 10/Barbarian 2. A Ranger of 10th gets 3 favored enemies, Evasion (very useful), and spell casting ability (wands). Barbarian 2 would gain fast move, rage, and uncanny dodge. Buy magical mithril medium armor. Rangers make poor front line fighters so you would have to rely are being sneaky--perhapse investing in the spring attack feat tree.

If you were going for more barbarian, then I would go Ranger 1/Barbarian 11 so I could get Greater rage.

d-_-b
10-13-2009, 04:14 PM
Agile Shield Fighter basically does what Two Weapon Fighting does except that for it to work in the latter case the the shield have to be light. He would only gain 1 more point in AC from the heavy shield as I already figured Shield Specialization into the equation.

I do follow you in regard to taking the fourth RNG lvl, but I would get the third to get the Endurance feat.

I've never allowed the alternate classes from PHB2 in my campaigns as I think the base ones provide enough alternatives and I don't want the hassle, however, they do provide interesting additional possibilities:)

Traditionally Barbarians have poor AC and in those cases they should focus on maximizing their damage potential so they can finish a fight fast and not get bogged down, as they will loose HP fast.
The Feats: Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack will help them stay out of harms way but often relies on the aid of a heavily armed fighter to keep the enemies from following.

In any event, since he has so very great ability scores, he could just take 1 RNG lvl to get the track feat and then go for BRB from then on. He'll get a lot of skill points regardless and the BRB also has Handle Animal and Survival as class skills.

Tibrand
10-13-2009, 06:27 PM
To me it sounds like the build suggestions is pretty much focused on melee and that the archer part is pretty much forgotten.

Neither Ranger or Barbarian is "holy" to me, it was only a thought that those classes in combination would best reflect my character idea of a wilderness sneaky warrior that is talented in both close combat and in archery.

Maybe i should take fighter levels instead of ranger or barbarian?

I do not know what the feat/power/tactic is called but to jump into combat hit my enemies and then run/jump out of combat and hide. That kind of guerrilla tactics is something my character use in the novell both with the sword and bow. Is it by dnd 3.5 rules possible to represent that by any way?

Also the campaign is going to be very epic and it is planned to take our characters from lvl 12 to atleast lvl 20 so leveling plan would be great :)

In the neverwinter nights computers game you are able to pick background feats when creating your character and that background feat doesnt steal any "feat slot" when leveling, is it the same way in pen and paper?

cpljarhead
10-13-2009, 07:21 PM
You are correct. I pull that out of the air.

However, 2 handed fighting DOES have to do with Dex if he decides not to take it as a Ranger--since he wanted to good at archery as well and may decide to take ranger archery style feats rather than 2 weapon.

If he chooses Shield Bash option, he should take the feats for Agile Shield Fighter (PHB2) (Improved Shield bash, Shield specialization) which will allow you to use a heavier shield without a big penalty. And would increase your shield bonus by 2.

Unless you really want an animal companion, I would recommend taking a class alternative like Distracting Attack (PHB 2) if you take 4 levels in ranger.

You can also see if you want to take any substitution levels for half-orc barbarian (Races of Destiny) which can give you reckless charge, Insightful rage, and Two handed Strike. In that case, using a 2 handed weapon is most beneficial. However, it leaves you more vulnerable to being hit as a front line fighter.

My personal preference would be ranger 10/Barbarian 2. A Ranger of 10th gets 3 favored enemies, Evasion (very useful), and spell casting ability (wands). Barbarian 2 would gain fast move, rage, and uncanny dodge. Buy magical mithril medium armor. Rangers make poor front line fighters so you would have to rely are being sneaky--perhapse investing in the spring attack feat tree.

If you were going for more barbarian, then I would go Ranger 1/Barbarian 11 so I could get Greater rage.

hey wizarddog your forgetting the experience point penalty he would suffer with such a difference in class levels unless one (ie the ranger) is the favored class and i believe the half orc's favored class is barbarian and a human doesn't have one. also here is a thought: go with all ranger levs with 2 weapon fighting cuz at that lev you could get upwards of 6 attacks for a full attack and if take pulverize foe or flay foe from champions of ruin (add +1d6 dam to every successful atk after 1st successful atk) and with greater blurring armor can really stand up well in melee combat. i play in a group where a character is tyhat just as i stated. he represents our big bruiserin the party. the rest are a scout/ranger (does lots of dam due to skirmish) myself the cleric/divine disciple and a sorceress.

d-_-b
10-14-2009, 03:53 AM
To me it sounds like the build suggestions is pretty much focused on melee and that the archer part is pretty much forgotten.

Neither Ranger or Barbarian is "holy" to me, it was only a thought that those classes in combination would best reflect my character idea of a wilderness sneaky warrior that is talented in both close combat and in archery.

Maybe i should take fighter levels instead of ranger or barbarian?

I do not know what the feat/power/tactic is called but to jump into combat hit my enemies and then run/jump out of combat and hide. That kind of guerrilla tactics is something my character use in the novell both with the sword and bow. Is it by dnd 3.5 rules possible to represent that by any way?

Also the campaign is going to be very epic and it is planned to take our characters from lvl 12 to atleast lvl 20 so leveling plan would be great :)

In the neverwinter nights computers game you are able to pick background feats when creating your character and that background feat doesnt steal any "feat slot" when leveling, is it the same way in pen and paper?

To start from the top:

1) Your attack bonuses, and thus your skill with a type of weapon, is a product of your Base Attack, the associated ability (STR/DEX), misc. modifiers from magic enhancements and abilities/Feats.

Melee combat uses STR and ranged combat uses DEX to determine your attack modifier. In this case your attack bonus (before any enhancements from magic or the Barbarians Rage ability) would be Melee: 16 and Ranged 15. Your choice of feats will invariably make your character EITHER a close combat OR a ranged combat specialist. In D&D 3.5 you really have to choose which one you'd rather be. This does not mean you have to suck at the other, mind you, just that you're best of being only a prodigy of one.

2) Barbarians are Melee specialists who can take and dish out massive amounts of damage, and a Barbarian with a few levels Ranger is basically a Barbarian who can track. The Ranger/Barbarian is a great combo exactly because they share so many class skills which seems essential to the kind of character you want to build.
The Barbarian is the Half Orcs favored class, so if you plan on multiclassing you should stick with it to avoid taking experience point penalties.

3) The guerilla tactic feats you are taking about is the afore mentioned "dodge tree". The feats: Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack allow you to move before and after your melee attack without provoking attacks of opportunity from your target.
The Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge abilities of the Barbarian (some other classes get these aswell) further means that you cannot be caught "flat footed" and that you cannot be flanked -meaning that your opponents no longer gain any bonuses for surrounding you.
The hiding part is a bit more tricky as you can't hide while being observed and attacking effectively reveals a hiding character, unless he is under some high level spell or has a super natural ability. There is an ability called "HIde in Plain Sight" which the Ranger gains a lvl 16 and some other prestige classes get too.

4) Regarding a levelling plan you really should start going through books such as: Complete Warrior; Complete Adventurer; PHB1 and 2; DMG and the Faerun setting books to find a prestige class that suits your goal, and then design a levelling plan around it's requirements.

5) The NVN character creation process is a little different than it's pen and paper equivalent. There are feats that you may only choose at character creation (lvl 1) but these still take up a feat. You could ask you DM about using the "Flaw" system, but I would advise against it.

A question: Is the Half-Orc race holy to you?

Tibrand
10-14-2009, 11:49 AM
Ok update.

I think i would like to focus on the ranged combat part and aiming for HIPS ability. As we wont have a rogue then i would problably take some extra skill points in disable device and open lock.

Is there any strange/unknown combo to make a really good sharpshooting half orc? (+ if there is HIPS)

The Half-orc part is "Holy" to me as the racial background defines my character alot of roleplaying reasons. EXP penality isnt that much of a problem for me, really.

Is there any cool RP prestige class to recommend for a ranged focused character? Harpers maybe? Or is the roleplaying prestige classes not worth the trouble so to speak.

d-_-b
10-14-2009, 11:56 AM
Order of the Bow initiate (complete warrior, p. 69) is the ranged prestige class.

If you're hell bent on disable device and open lock I'd recommend you go for a fighter/rogue combo, but you won't ever be very good at it. The fastest way to the prestige class is 5 Fighter levels which is also what will max your Base Attack Bonus.

If you have a mage in the party the right spell selection can take care of traps and locks for you;)

I think most prestige classes make for great roleplaying but obviously it depends on what you make of it. Personally I don't think you should go for a Harper prestige class as there is nothing to stop you from affiliating your character with the Harpers in any event.

Tibrand
10-14-2009, 02:36 PM
Would it be possible to create a fighter 5 / order of the bow 10 / harper scout 5 ? And do you think that would be a good build?
Isnt there a feat for spring attack but focused on ranged combat? Is it worth the feat slot?

In PHB2 there was a little bit text about the base class scout but not enough information, where can i read more about that class and its strengths/weakness?
--
Just got to know that my partner will be a paladin/wizard combo focused on crafting magical items, will take some prestige class that works as a cleric but gain arcane instead of divine spells (?) Was going to be devoted to Torm or Mystra or something like that.
The strengths for that would be close combat and magic and the weakness no sneakyness, low hit points and Base attack bonus.


open lock, disable device skills: Oh i didnt know there was spells for that!

d-_-b
10-14-2009, 04:18 PM
The Scout class is featured in Complete Adventurer. It would be a good base for an Order of the Bow initiate, But will require 7 levels to get the +5 Base Attack Bonus.

The Scout class will by and large give you the class skills you'd need to qualify for the Harper Scout prestige class. I don't fell, however, that this prestige class is worth taking.

If you like the Scout, I would take 10 levels Scout and 2 levels Order of the Bow initiate to start you out at level 12 and then just run with the Order of the Bow all the way to level 20.
This will make you a formidable archer as the bonus damage from the Scout's Skirmish ability stacks with the Ranged Precision ability of the Order of the Bow initiate. At level 20 your ranged damage potential would hence be a formidable 1d6+STR (composite short bow) +3d6 +5d8 +misc. magic enhancements for one arrow! Additionally you would have a lot of the skill you covet.

BTW, your partner should go with a Paladin/Cleric as they share a common dependence on Wisdom and Charisma, or better yet just plain Cleric. Divine spell casters can take magic item creation feats just like arcane spell casters. At 7th. level a Cleric gain a spell called Divine Power which grants him +6 to his STR and the Base Attack of a fighter. If he wants to be a Paladin for the mount, just tell him to go with Cleric and summon one when he needs it;)
--- Merged from Double Post ---
BTW The point of the Spring Attack Feat is that it allows you to move in and out of Melee without allowing your enemy free attacks. As a ranged character you won't be planning on enemies getting this close, so you just move around as you please.

Tibrand
10-14-2009, 04:51 PM
Is it really worth taking 10 levels of Scout? Is the Blindsence worth 1 level?
Wouldnt it be better to take 1 level of something else instead like fighter for the extra feat or monk for the AC. Isnt it good to take 1 monk level to gain wisdom ac?
if i would level to 14 scout i would gain HIPS but loose 4 lovely order of the bow levels. Creating DnD builds is actually very fun :)
I was thinking of the feat shot on the run earlier, what do you think about it?

Is there any HIPS magical items? :D

---
my friend is aiming for sacred exorcist and will be a Aasimar. That race and paladin is somewhat holy for him. I cant understand his fetish for it.

d-_-b
10-14-2009, 05:21 PM
Honestly I don't think Blindsense is worth a level in itself. If you take a level Fighter you'd incur a level penalty but gain a feat, which is always neat. If, on the other hand, you were to take a level Barbarian you would not incur the level penalty AND you would gain an additional 10ft to your movement speed which would help you stay out of harms way. You would also gain the Rage ability, but that's sort of a moot point although I guess it would be handy if you were forced into melee.

I very much love the Shot on the Run feat:) and since it is part of the feat tree you will be using I'd go with it.

In all you will have to choose five feats, at levels 1,3,4,6 and 9 before you get to level 10. The four are outlined in the prerequisites for the Order of the Bow initiate and the last might as well be Shot on the Run.
--- Merged from Double Post ---
Regarding HIPS I can't readily think of an item that grants that power, but you could get a ring of greater invisibility, as per the spell;) It would be very expensive but you would sure be hard to spot...

Tibrand
10-14-2009, 05:55 PM
Damn :), free feet of my choice or faster moving speed? I think that one is hard to decide actually, level penality isnt a problem for me at all as i dont think we are 110% serious with giving out exp after encounters and the leveling up part is more decided by either the storyline or that the character is experiencing a "personal evolution".

We are having a much larger focus on motivating why your character gains certain prestige classes and etc.

How many feats may i pick between lvl 13-20? Is it 2 more? What archery feats is recommended?

wizarddog
10-14-2009, 11:53 PM
hey wizarddog your forgetting the experience point penalty he would suffer with such a difference in class levels unless one (ie the ranger) is the favored class and i believe the half orc's favored class is barbarian and a human doesn't have one.

Whether he chooses half-orc or human, he avoids the XP penalty because one of them is his favored class (humans can choose any class as their favorite). The favored class is simply not counted (as per PHB page 60) when determining uneven levels. He can also avoid it if he wanted to playing half-elf or a wood-elf.

Scouts are the true snipers of the game. If you decide to go that route the best combo are actually ranger/scouts that utilize the Swift Hunter feat from Complete scoundrel. It allows you to stack your Ranger and Scout levels to determine skirmish damage and favored enemies. They also have the feat improved skirmish which is very good. If you choose to play a scout or scout combo you sacrifice multiple attacks in favor of one devastating attack per round. Even with many shot, you can only apply your damage once. However, the expanded psionics and the SRDd20 have improved manyshot which DOES allow you to fire and apply your skirmish to each arrow provided you aim at separate targets.

EDIT: and and even sweeter deal---your skrimish damage applies to your favored enemy even if it normally is immune to precision damage!(i.e. constructs and undead)

However, if you play the half-orc, you will have to have your ranger and scout levels nearly equal since neither is your favored class ;)

d-_-b
10-15-2009, 03:29 AM
How many feats may i pick between lvl 13-20? Is it 2 more? What archery feats is recommended?

You'll get two extra feats, at lvls 15 and 18. You could go for weapon specialization feats but there may be more interesting options out there.

Tibrand
10-15-2009, 08:51 AM
Whether he chooses half-orc or human, he avoids the XP penalty because one of them is his favored class (humans can choose any class as their favorite). The favored class is simply not counted (as per PHB page 60) when determining uneven levels. He can also avoid it if he wanted to playing half-elf or a wood-elf.

Scouts are the true snipers of the game. If you decide to go that route the best combo are actually ranger/scouts that utilize the Swift Hunter feat from Complete scoundrel. It allows you to stack your Ranger and Scout levels to determine skirmish damage and favored enemies. They also have the feat improved skirmish which is very good. If you choose to play a scout or scout combo you sacrifice multiple attacks in favor of one devastating attack per round. Even with many shot, you can only apply your damage once. However, the expanded psionics and the SRDd20 have improved manyshot which DOES allow you to fire and apply your skirmish to each arrow provided you aim at separate targets.

EDIT: and and even sweeter deal---your skrimish damage applies to your favored enemy even if it normally is immune to precision damage!(i.e. constructs and undead)

However, if you play the half-orc, you will have to have your ranger and scout levels nearly equal since neither is your favored class ;)


First of all, we dont use favored class rules and exp punishment for multiclassing only applies if its made at an ridiculous level. like
lvl 1 monk / rogue 3 / fighter 2 / shadowdancer 3 / bard 1 / Dragon Disciple 10 ow whatever combination is epic in that manner. Ignore the fact that my character is a half orc for 2 minutes :)

I think your plans sounds good combining ranger/scout, i think every level of order of the bow seams worth it so a ranger/scout combo would be of totally maximum 10 levels. Ranger 4 / Scout 6 / order of the bow 10 how does that sound like?

In what order should i level if i want to be as smart as possible?
About skills? should i select medium amount of points in many skills or should i focus on a few?
Recommended feats to take along the road.

Is there any good magical items i should buy for my lvl 12 starting character? A longbow with mighty perhaps? A cloak with +hide and move silently?

This kind of build what would its strengths and weakness be?

d-_-b
10-15-2009, 10:12 AM
I'd say 3 lvls Ranger and 7 Lvls Scout. Your first lvl should be Scout since they get more skill points at every level than a Ranger, but other than that the order in which you take the levels is of no consequence.

Skillwise you should first and foremost focus on the skills that are required for the Order of the Bow initiate prestige class. Secondary focus should IMO be on class skill that Scout and Ranger have in common.

The weaknesses of such a build would be relatively low HP, and somewhat poor AC. Basically you'll have to make sure that you won't get charged and stay out of melee. Your fast movement speed will see to that.

Get an enchanted Composite Longbow to take advantage of your superior strength. Boots and cloak of Elvenkind will get you a bonus on hide and move silently. Items such as enchanted armor, a ring of protection and amulets of natural armor will help boost your AC. Hewards Handy Haversack is a neat magic bag to store your stuff in. An assortment of enchanted arrows -there's one for every occasion:)

wizarddog
10-15-2009, 03:22 PM
And remember if you play the scout you need to move around alot. You gain bonus to your AC by simply moving around (even if you don't take a shot). You increase your damage and AC if you take improved skirmish and move 20 feet. By the nature of being an archer and moving around you become a harder target and are less likely to be targeted. But your limited in your abilities if your in a tight spot and can't move around.

A longspear is good secondary weapon, because you can still apply your skirmish damage to melee or ranged attacks. Though it's not really sexy, a crossbow with the crossbow sniper feat (PHB) can actually apply their skirmish damage at 60 feet rather than 30. But you lose out on some of the archery feats like manyshot which state arrows.

The order of the bow is a good PrC though you are just as viable going up in level in scout or ranger since your skirmish and favored enemies continue to grow.

The area your going to get clobbered is will saves, so you need magic items to improve your saving throws. Invest in a Cloak of Resistance rather than an elven cloak and boots of Striding and spring for extra movement; odds are, you will have a pretty good hide and move silently from ranks.

One last thing....invest in a very high escape artist or a ring of freedom of movement. If you get grappled, you are pretty much neutralized.

Tibrand
10-15-2009, 05:47 PM
Order of the bow initiate or Peerless Archer? What is the best archery prestige class?

d-_-b
10-15-2009, 06:11 PM
Peerless Archer is a 3.0 prestige class and I must confess not to know it:(

The crossbow is a no go for the Order of the Bow initiate as it requires Weapon Focus on a short- or longbow (or composite varieties there of)

Escape Artist is a good point. I had not considered it:)

Tibrand
10-15-2009, 06:27 PM
Isnt the book forgotten realms - Silver Marches a 3.5 edition?
Anyway i found the prestige class there.