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View Full Version : Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, 3rd Edition



fmitchell
10-04-2009, 09:38 PM
After reading the description (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=93&esem=2) and blog postings (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?etyn=1&ecan=62&epn=0) on the FFG website, I'm not sure it's such a great step forward.

First off, no matter how many goodies go with it, $100 is not a good price point for a Core Set, even if a group only needs one. Compare that to D&D 4e's Players' Handbook, which retails for $35. Sure, by the time you buy PHB2, PHB3, DMG, DMG2, MM, MM2, power cards, miniatures, tiles, and so forth, you've plunked down a huge chunk of change, but front-loading the cost isn't good business.

An even better example is an indie game like Swashbucklers of the 7 Skies: just buy a $30 book and buy or scavenge a few dice, and you're ready. Indie games are light on mechanics, so you seldom if ever need extra components to streamline the rules.

Second, basing an RPG's rules entirely around special color-coded dice with special symbols, special cards with rules written on them, special printed character sheets, special career cards that align perfectly with the character sheet, and special cardboard components that link together into a cautious/reckless track (whew) sounds overwhelming. All these measures tame what might otherwise be horrendously complex rules by putting intelligence in the objects ... but is complexity really the right trend?

Unless you're in school full time, and maybe not even then, spare time is a valuable commodity. The current game I'm in is on the rocks because players have quit and the GM acquired serious real-life responsibilities. Will enough people have time for an RPG involving four booklets and an explosion of components? Maybe, if they're drawn to the shiny ... but how long will that last? Compare this to Spirit of the Century which introduces the idea of a pick-up game: a self-contained game session, with previously-created characters, fit in where enough players have time. If anything, simplifying mechanics so that players need only a small one-sided character sheet and dice (funny symbols or no) appeals more to harried adults.

Third, if this becomes a trend then independent RPG companies need equally elaborate and expensive components just to compete. If this doesn't become a trend, this version will sink like a box of carefully crafted stones.

I might end up getting the Big Box of Warhammer anyway, out of sheer curiosity ... but, given how hard it is to find someone who doesn't play D&D 4e around here, I don't expect I'd use it.

fmitchell
11-11-2009, 02:15 AM
For what it's worth, game stores around the country are hosting "The Emperor's Decree", a preview of WFRP 3. The exact list, including times and dates, can be found at http://app.fantasyflightgames.com/wfrp-prerelease-stores.html

I've entered this on the release calendar too (for Friday; I created a one-day event by mistake).

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
11-11-2009, 09:53 AM
HUGE WFRP FAN HERE!

Having everything released from WFRP1&2, i can't wait to pick up WFRP3. I already have friends awaiting the release so we can test play it. I have high hopes for said edition.

I'm going to try to make the Lancaster or Lake Elsinoire, Ca. meet. If you hadn't listed, I would never have known. So thanks for the info link/s, fmitchell. And great thread, BTW.

Webhead
11-11-2009, 09:59 PM
As I began to research the details of WFRP 3E myself, I find that I stand in very much the same camp.

$100 bucks for an RPG (no matter how elaborate or "complete") is simply asking too much of my wallet. I cringed at the thought of shelling out $50 for a copy of Dark Heresy (despite all the praise I witnessed being heaped upon it) and as a result have decided that my attention and money is best distributed elsewhere.

And by all of the specialized components involved in the game, that simply limits the scope of its application. One of the most encouraging qualities about some of my favorite RPGs is that you can play them anywhere, at any time so long as you have a pencil, piece of scratch paper and a couple of six-siders robbed from somebody's Yahtzee or Monopoly game. It says something to me when you can carry all necessary components for an RPG in your front pocket. Asking people to lug around their box-o-Warhammer seems a little restricting. And what happens if you loose a piece or two? The special dice present a similar quandry. FUDGE dice are a different story. Sure, they "look" special, but you can easily turn a regular d6 into a FUDGE die with nothing more than a sharpie. They are easy to replace. I'm not so sure that the new Warhammer dice will be as cost-friendly.

They seem to be appealing more to a board gamer's sensibilities with all the fiddly bits and specialized, modular design. That's not necessarily a bad thing and I certainly love board games. But I don't play an RPG looking for a board-game like experience and certainly don't want to deal with the same degree of setup for an RPG as I do for a board game.

Maybe it's just me...

cigamnogard
12-07-2009, 07:38 PM
A $100.00! US or CAD?

bigironvault
12-07-2009, 08:24 PM
A $100.00! US or CAD?

Does it matter?! It's way too much. I rather shell that moola out for Warhammer Quest.

(It's $100 CAD where I'm at btw.)

bigironvault
12-11-2009, 05:31 PM
Besides - I question the "endgame" of that RPG.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
12-11-2009, 05:47 PM
I respect your point, bigironvault.

For me, I never worry about the "endgame." They (WFRP and the fans) has given out more than enough material and canon to give an inventive DM a lifetime of material to draw from. Besides, even though i am suspicious of WFRP3, i have been made aware of one change that i feel strongly about, and if it is as good as i suspect, i will definitely incorporate the ruling in all the editions of WFRP in my upcoming games.

Being old school, WFRP 1 is still my favorite edition, for it just oozes dark and gritty evil-ness.

cigamnogard
12-11-2009, 07:04 PM
ahhhh...
-to quote OOTS I just had an evilgasm!

Webhead
12-15-2009, 10:17 PM
Apparently, WFRP 3e has been getting several very favorable reviews. I must admit after getting more in-depth views of the game mechanics, I am becoming very interested in getting an opportunity to actually play the thing.

Initially, I feared that WFRP 3e would be following in the game-design footsteps of D&D 4e, tying the game back to its roots as a more "gamist" tabletop tactical playstyle focused on game balance and with "additional bits" shuffled in. Apparently, despite the fact that the game comes packed full of traditionally "board game-y" style components, the actual design of the game and encouraged play style is intentionally moving in the direction of something more "narrativist" and slightly abstract. This makes me hopeful.

I like what I've been hearing about the abstract range and combat system and I find myself intrigued by the idea of deliberate mechanics to unite the party. There's also the "wound", "insanity" and "miscast" mechanics that sound quite appealing.

Now, does this mean that WFRP 3e has dismissed all of my possible hang-ups about it? No...but it does seem more and more likely that it will lend itself to an innovative and, most importantly, fun role playing experience. Maybe its my natural curiousity and eye for the unusual/non-traditional that comes from a fascination with the likes of "indie" RPGs, but I really hope that, as with D&D 4e, I at least get a chance to see it in action, so that I can render a true and meaningful evaluation.

I've never actually played WFRP in any edition (though its darker and grittier style is much more my fancy than something like D&D) but if this game proves good enough, it might just be the thing that finally drags my lazy butt into the setting.

cigamnogard
12-16-2009, 09:12 AM
I've never actually played WFRP in any edition (though its darker and grittier style is much more my fancy than something like D&D) but if this game proves good enough, it might just be the thing that finally drags my lazy butt into the setting.
D&D with the right DM can be dark but Warhammer I agree is already there.

Webhead
12-16-2009, 07:19 PM
D&D with the right DM can be dark but Warhammer I agree is already there.

That can be true enough in many ways. There are still some significant differences in the game mechanics that lend the two to different playstyles.

cigamnogard
12-17-2009, 05:27 PM
How so?

Webhead
12-17-2009, 09:00 PM
How so?

Lethality for one. Combat can go south much more quickly in Warhammer and permanent impairments are very likely. One can sort of house rule that in D&D to a degree but D&D is more intent on a bit more "heroic" play. There's also the unpredictability and corrupting influence of magic. Every spell comes with a price. Chaos is not a force to be trifled with...:)

talysian
12-23-2009, 10:49 AM
I've played the original Warhammer Fantasy and loved it. I'm not really willing to dump the money for a new version of it. Though I'd deffinatly give it a shot if someone else had it.

Webhead
12-23-2009, 07:39 PM
I've played the original Warhammer Fantasy and loved it. I'm not really willing to dump the money for a new version of it. Though I'd deffinatly give it a shot if someone else had it.

Fmitchell received his copy of it. If he feels so inclined in the future, I'm hoping we can give it a spin.

Lucifer_Draconus
01-06-2010, 02:19 PM
Saw the blurb on the site & cringed. I'll either play using a combination of 1st & 2nd ed WHF if I ever play it or convert it to RMX/C w/ some rules snagged from 2e WHF.Will not touch WHF3 like I won't play 4e "D&D".

rathan
01-11-2010, 05:14 PM
FYI - Amazon.com has the Core set at $62.97. They have the 2ed Rule Book at $65.00.

I am a HUGE old-school WFRP fan (was playing The Enemy Within campaign as it was being shipped overseas to the US the first time.) I had a chance to attend FFG presentation of WFRP 3ed at GENCON in Indianapolis '09. I chatted with the guys after and I think the way they are going is very interesting.

For an example: with the different types of dice used to build your pool based on physical ability, training, specialization, stance, tactical advantages/disadvantages, luck, and difficulty ... a single roll of your dice "pool" for an attack could be described as:
"Your strength failed you but the years of training with your favored weapon and a little luck allowed you to land your blow. The effort of your attack caused you to strain yourself a bit but the strike was well aimed at an unprotected part of the enemy's body negating his armor's protection."

It is more "junk" to keep track of and you cant just use any of the dice in your dice bag(s) but I like where they are going with the rules and the new dice.

Pk1305
01-11-2010, 06:31 PM
I wish I could find a group willing to run it, I loved WFRP the 1st edition and would love to try the new one but finding gaming groups around Milwaukee playing anything other than D&D is impossible and I don't love most D&D settings

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
01-11-2010, 07:16 PM
I'm willing to run it but am having difficulty finding players for WFRP in my area. Ah well, what ya gonna do.

Pk1305
01-11-2010, 08:17 PM
Feel free to move to Milwaukee, I can find you at least two players heh, just not a GM

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
01-11-2010, 09:48 PM
Tell you what, find me a recliner and a job and i will run WFRP and Traveller weekly. I own everything WFRP1E & 2E and am ready to game.

Webhead
01-11-2010, 09:50 PM
I'm not prepared to give a lengthy report just yet (still have the Tome of Blessings and Tome of Adventure to read, plus I want to run it a time or two before I comment on it) but I will say that I really like what I see.

The dice pool seems strange at first, especially to those who want to see numerals on their dice, but it really lends itself to a deep and inspiring core mechanic. It is essentially a "one-roll" system, meaning that actions are resolved entirely with a single roll of the dice (including combat actions). It introduces extra levels of detail to a roll beyond simple "pass/fail" including potential positive and negative side-effects and criticals. The best part is that the extra detail is really only optional and the GM can choose to use or ignore it in the interest maintaining the pace of his game. Constructing dice pools quickly becomes intuitive and actually kind of fun. The different colored dice are very easy to track and remember the functions of and they are excellent at showing a player what they are benefiting from.

I'll stop there for now. There is a lot to like about this game even beyond the unique and inspiring dice mechanic. I'm eager to try my hand at GMing it.

Pk1305
01-12-2010, 03:20 PM
I am ready to dump money into the game if I can find a group. The nice thing about being older is I have money to indulge in my hobbies. Before seeing the price I was going to pick it up just to read and compare to my much loved Games Workshop first edition stuff but $100 is too much without some guarantee of play time.

Webhead
01-12-2010, 07:03 PM
I am ready to dump money into the game if I can find a group. The nice thing about being older is I have money to indulge in my hobbies. Before seeing the price I was going to pick it up just to read and compare to my much loved Games Workshop first edition stuff but $100 is too much without some guarantee of play time.

I am eternally frugal (even moreso now that I have 2 newborns) and so I heartily encourage folks to save money where possible. To that end, there are many places on the web where you can acquire the core set for considerably less than the $99 MSRP. What's better than getting a great game at cover price? Getting the same great game for less than cover price!

Seriously, there are places out there that sell the game for as little as $60 with shipping included.

- Webhead, Bargain Hunter

Pk1305
01-12-2010, 10:14 PM
Yeah, I prefer to support my local game store if I can over Amazon, it gives me a place to try and meet gamers.

Webhead
01-12-2010, 10:28 PM
Yeah, I prefer to support my local game store if I can over Amazon, it gives me a place to try and meet gamers.

No arguments here. Back when I had an FLGS and more disposable income, that was my venue-of-choice as well. Nowadays, I live further away and don't really have the time or money to afford trips like that, so I end up making most of my purchases online. If I'm going to resort to that anyway, I look for the best deals I can to stretch my thin gaming budget as far as possible.

lomifeh
01-13-2010, 11:53 AM
I just picked this up and have been reading through it. It definitely seem different and I kind of like the mix of board game and tabletop feel they are going for. Once I read the whole thing I'll be able to comment more. I ended up picking it up at Amazon since the deal was just too good to pass up.

Webhead
01-13-2010, 07:05 PM
...It definitely seem different and I kind of like the mix of board game and tabletop feel they are going for...

Interestingly, I am finding that it feels even less "board game-y" to me than D&D 3.5 or 4E. This is partly due to the abstract combat system that doesn't use a battle mat. Sure, there are a lot of small pieces, but those really just exist as an alternative to tracking tic-marks on a sheet of paper and make for a bit more of a visceral experience. And the cards (actions, talents, career, etc.) are just props to keep the rules in front of the players to reduce page-flipping during a session...always a plus.