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Grandore The Giant Killer
08-24-2009, 09:57 AM
I think we need a thread to start posting what all is going on in Player Handbook 3. I seen a picture of the cover of the book and it looks like Minotaurs are a playable race now. Who wants Steak?! It also has been confirmed Githzerai are in. Also the Wilder race is in which if I do say so this book is definately going to be for obscure races.

For classes it revolves around divine, primal, and psionic. The main class confirmed so far is Monk.

yukonhorror
08-24-2009, 10:27 AM
also the psion is available for play.

I heard only 4 races in this one.

It'll also include all of the dual-classing stuff.

Valdar
08-24-2009, 10:51 AM
I'm limiting my current game to PHB2 and earlier for player options. I don't want to punish the players that stick with their original characters too much by having lots and lots of options that weren't available initially.

We've already had two characters switch out- our Cleric became a Bard after we lost all of our Defenders to attrition, and our Warlock became a Swordmage for the exact same reason.

I do like the idea that psionics are an extension of the power of the Far Plane- I'm certainly one of the gamers that sees psi as a science-fiction intrusion on medieval fantasy, so it was good of them to come up with that explanation rather than it just being the "mind over matter" of SF.

Gargs454
08-24-2009, 04:39 PM
Personally, I've never been big on psionics in the past, in part because they seemed to be a fairly different type of mechanic than all the other classes used. It looks as though they are fixing that somewhat and are actually making it kind of neat (eliminating the encounter powers for instance in lieu of altering the at-wills).

Still though I'm not a real big fan psionics and placing the monk class with the psionic power source just seems odd to me. Of course I also think that they are a little overly concerned with the whole power source thing anyway, but that's a different issue. The martial power source for instance to me, isn't really a source of power as it is just simply practice and training. Not a big issue in the main though.

As for what I'll allow, I won't have a problem with allowing PHB3 as those classes are likely to be behind the others anyway since the other classes will already have multiple books out with powers, feats, items, etc. Additionally, my campaign is run at a FLGS for which no fee is charged, and while its not required by the store, I feel its only appropriate to open the game up to all the different books so as to encourage the patronage of the store. That's a personal decision of mine though.

WhiteTiger
08-25-2009, 08:48 AM
I don't have a problem with a psionics as long as it didn't require an entirely different set of mechanics. I also prefer psionics in more of an "age of reason" campaign rather than dark ages or early renaissance.

Aidan
08-25-2009, 02:20 PM
I do like the idea that psionics are an extension of the power of the Far Plane- I'm certainly one of the gamers that sees psi as a science-fiction intrusion on medieval fantasy, so it was good of them to come up with that explanation rather than it just being the "mind over matter" of SF.

From what I've read, psionics aren't so much an extension of the Far Realms, but rather a reaction by the World to the increasing Far Realm incursion. More beings are being born with psi powers to fight the insult from the abberent creatures. I believe a number abberent creatures are vulnerable to psychic damage too.

october_darkness
08-25-2009, 06:47 PM
There's a level 3 psion power, which I think is quite useful... but not as powerful as it should be. With this power, it's Intelligence vs. Will. Not too good of an attack, unless you have a magic item to compliment this.

Betrayal


You weaken your foe’s sense of self and force it to betray a comrade.
At-Will http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/images/bullet.gif Augmentable, Charm, Implement, Psionic
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One enemy
Attack: Intelligence vs. Will
Hit: You slide the target 1 square to a square adjacent to an enemy. The target then makes a melee basic attack as a free action against that enemy, with a bonus to the attack roll equal to your Charisma modifier.
Augment 1
Hit: As above, and the target gains a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Charisma modifier.
Augment 2
Hit: You slide the target a number of squares equal to your Charisma modifier to a square adjacent to an enemy. The target then makes a melee basic attack as a free action against that enemy, with a bonus to the attack roll and the damage roll equal to your Charisma modifier. The target is also dazed until the end of your next turn.
First published in Player's Handbook 3 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndlist&brand=All&year=All&type=CoreGameProducts).

Grimwell
08-26-2009, 01:07 AM
I'm definitely not going to utilize the races and classes in PHB3 for my campaign. I'm just about to start it and don't want to try to figure out how to fit all the new stuff in on a quick pace. I'm slow! :)

I will use the classes and races later, and at that point let my players do the same if they wish, but I don't want to cripple the start of my game with options that don't have a setting appropriate hook. Yes, I like that kind of detail.

Grandore The Giant Killer
08-26-2009, 03:10 AM
Ok I've been having a thought about Minotaurs as a race. I hope to god they have custom equipment for them. They wouldn't be able to wear regular equipment! And I'm not just saying this because of the size because I'm picturing these things to be around the same size as the equally large race the Goliaths.

I'm talking about the structure. Here are the issues i'm having.

1. They wouldn't be able to wear a regular helmet. They have big ole cow horns and the head is a completely different shape from a regular normal "more human" looking race.

2. They wouldn't be able to wear regular boots. Unless they changed the structure of these Minotaurs the ones I know don't have feet. They have hoofs. What are they going to do? Make Minotaurs purchase horse shoes?

3. They wouldn't be able to wear regular gloves. Now this statement might not be as big of an issue as others but if you look at the picture they only have 3 fingers and a thumb.


Now I did talk to a few DMs from these forums on AOL about this and one of them brought up the possibility of barding like they do for horses. What do you guys have to say about all this?

Gargs454
08-26-2009, 10:36 AM
Ok I've been having a thought about Minotaurs as a race. I hope to god they have custom equipment for them. They wouldn't be able to wear regular equipment! And I'm not just saying this because of the size because I'm picturing these things to be around the same size as the equally large race the Goliaths.

I'm talking about the structure. Here are the issues i'm having.

1. They wouldn't be able to wear a regular helmet. They have big ole cow horns and the head is a completely different shape from a regular normal "more human" looking race.

2. They wouldn't be able to wear regular boots. Unless they changed the structure of these Minotaurs the ones I know don't have feet. They have hoofs. What are they going to do? Make Minotaurs purchase horse shoes?

3. They wouldn't be able to wear regular gloves. Now this statement might not be as big of an issue as others but if you look at the picture they only have 3 fingers and a thumb.


Now I did talk to a few DMs from these forums on AOL about this and one of them brought up the possibility of barding like they do for horses. What do you guys have to say about all this?

Honestly, while you are correct in that minotaur armor would be different from human armor, etc. I think its better to leave it just as is and assume that they buy appropriate armor. Think of it this way: halflings have to wear different armor than dwarves who cannot wear human armor who cannot wear goliath armor, etc. I personally think that you just complicate the game too much when you start trying to create distinctive sets for every race. I think its better to simply let the DM and players decide what the armor looks like but to keep pricing, availability, types, etc. consistent with the rest. Just my two coppers.

Valdar
08-26-2009, 02:09 PM
From what I've read, psionics aren't so much an extension of the Far Realms, but rather a reaction by the World to the increasing Far Realm incursion. More beings are being born with psi powers to fight the insult from the abberent creatures. I believe a number abberent creatures are vulnerable to psychic damage too.

The causal connection between the two wasn't all that clear (in fact, I think it's deliberately vague)- here's the section from the article I was talking about- is this the same source you read?



Recently, as the Far Realm's incursion into the world has grown more aggressive, psionic energy has become more common, stronger, and easier to control. Previously, only monks could tap into it with their rigorous discipline and self-control. Now others can utilize it, from psions who study and unlock its secrets to others who acquire psionic powers seemingly at the universe's whim.

Boswok
09-13-2009, 04:16 PM
Ok I've been having a thought about Minotaurs as a race. I hope to god they have custom equipment for them. They wouldn't be able to wear regular equipment! And I'm not just saying this because of the size because I'm picturing these things to be around the same size as the equally large race the Goliaths.

I'm talking about the structure. Here are the issues i'm having.

1. They wouldn't be able to wear a regular helmet. They have big ole cow horns and the head is a completely different shape from a regular normal "more human" looking race.

2. They wouldn't be able to wear regular boots. Unless they changed the structure of these Minotaurs the ones I know don't have feet. They have hoofs. What are they going to do? Make Minotaurs purchase horse shoes?

3. They wouldn't be able to wear regular gloves. Now this statement might not be as big of an issue as others but if you look at the picture they only have 3 fingers and a thumb.


Now I did talk to a few DMs from these forums on AOL about this and one of them brought up the possibility of barding like they do for horses. What do you guys have to say about all this?

You can use the Enchant Magic Item ritual at no cost to resize and refit an object to match your Minotaur (or Halfling or what-have-you). At earliest levels, I'm assuming you'd simply buy what you need or have a connection to refit things to suit you. You are, after all, a hero.

october_darkness
09-15-2009, 01:45 PM
Just because Minotaurs have horse-like features, doesn't necessarily mean they'll keep barding in their mouth. It's not like they need to be steered into combat.

kkriegg
09-23-2009, 10:58 AM
Now I did talk to a few DMs from these forums on AOL about this and one of them brought up the possibility of barding like they do for horses. What do you guys have to say about all this?

Well, technically, minotaurs look like cows, not horses. Cows have cloven hooves, and I don't think a cow can get "shoed."

I think you're totally correct, though. But the main theme of 4E is "brush it all under the rug."

MortonStromgal
09-23-2009, 11:13 AM
Wait wait... There is going to be a #3? how many PHBs are they going to do?

wbrandel
09-23-2009, 03:12 PM
Rumor has it there will be 4 PHBs and DMGs as for the others I know not at this time

Farcaster
09-23-2009, 03:42 PM
One PHB and one DMG every year, I believe.

WhiteTiger
09-24-2009, 12:15 PM
One PHB and one DMG every year, I believe.

UGH!!! :doh:

I don't have the money for all those... I'm sticking with Pathfinder.

Farcaster
09-24-2009, 12:18 PM
Well, arguably, it is just an expansion of content. You don't have to buy it to continue playing the game.

Valdar
09-24-2009, 12:28 PM
Most of the content is up on D&DI anyway. I don't have a copy of Adventurer's Vault 2, but I've used plenty of the items already. You even get access to the new monsters created for modules that way.

WhiteTiger
09-25-2009, 08:29 AM
Most of the content is up on D&DI anyway. I don't have a copy of Adventurer's Vault 2, but I've used plenty of the items already. You even get access to the new monsters created for modules that way.

I'm not paying for that either... :p

Gargs454
09-25-2009, 09:57 AM
Well they do seem to be easing up on the release schedule from 3.x, which is in many ways a good thing. The new classes are generally only found in the PHBs (with maybe one class per campaign setting added as well), so its not like there's a new class coming out every month like there was in 3.x.

Additionally, you can absolutely get by with just DMG1 and not have to buy any of the others, without limiting any options. Same goes for the Monster Manuals, you don't need to buy one each year as there are plenty of monsters included, plus creating monsters is now easier than ever.

The D&DI is another thing. You can argue that they shouldn't be charging for it, but its a heck of a deal when you get down to it. Without ever buying a book, you get access to all the "crunch" that is released plus a fair amount of advice and "fluff" from the magazines. On top of that you get a character builder updated every month, and currently a monster builder with supposedly more DM Tools to be released in the future.

Sure it would be nice if everything was done now, but its still a great deal to me. I am actually somewhat surprised that they are not trying to restrict the access only to content to books that you own, which could have been done through a code of some sorts.

All that being said, there's nothing wrong with sticking with Pathfinder, it is after all a great product. Just don't be surprised when new material starts being released for sale for that game too. In the end, companies need money from us in order to stay afloat.

Valdar
09-25-2009, 12:55 PM
I'm not paying for that either... :p

So, you'll only play games that never release new features or content after the first two years? Good luck with that.
--- Merged from Double Post ---



The D&DI is another thing. You can argue that they shouldn't be charging for it, but its a heck of a deal when you get down to it. Without ever buying a book, you get access to all the "crunch" that is released plus a fair amount of advice and "fluff" from the magazines. On top of that you get a character builder updated every month, and currently a monster builder with supposedly more DM Tools to be released in the future.


The Compendium is certainly worth the $7 a month, simply because it's a searchable database. If I want to see all the Undead Artillery from levels 10-16, it would take half an hour to go through all the books, but only a few seconds online. Then you can copy and paste into your notes for the session, and off you go. A boss fight I just wrote that would have taken hours in 3.x took about 5 minutes.

Farcaster
09-25-2009, 01:05 PM
I think we need a thread to start posting what all is going on in Player Handbook 3. I seen a picture of the cover of the book and it looks like Minotaurs are a playable race now. Who wants Steak?! It also has been confirmed Githzerai are in. Also the Wilder race is in which if I do say so this book is definately going to be for obscure races.

For classes it revolves around divine, primal, and psionic. The main class confirmed so far is Monk.

:focus:

Windstar
09-25-2009, 01:09 PM
They also seem to have chosen Assassin as a class for the PHB3.

jonnyrockshard
09-26-2009, 03:50 AM
Actually, the Assassin is a DDI exlcusive, so it won't appear in PHB3.

I just hope the Soulknife appears (more than likely as the Psionic Defender if it does) I thought out of all the Psionic classes... that one had the best flavor, even if in previous editions it was somewhat underpowered. I'd be willing to bet Ardent will be the Psionic Leader, but then again, it could be a whole new class altogether too.

I'm more curious to find out what the Divine and Primal classes will be.

WhiteTiger
09-28-2009, 08:49 AM
So, you'll only play games that never release new features or content after the first two years? Good luck with that.
--- Merged from Double Post ---


The Compendium is certainly worth the $7 a month, simply because it's a searchable database. If I want to see all the Undead Artillery from levels 10-16, it would take half an hour to go through all the books, but only a few seconds online. Then you can copy and paste into your notes for the session, and off you go. A boss fight I just wrote that would have taken hours in 3.x took about 5 minutes.


I only have enough money to buy a couple of splatbooks per year and an online internet fee to get more content is out of the question. I also play other games like star wars and shadowrun. even if I could pay for the pdf's and save a little money, that still limits me to a couple of books per system.

Grandore The Giant Killer
10-09-2009, 03:32 PM
Some primal class called Seeker is a confirmed class. Kinda curious how it'll be different from the Druid, Shaman, and Warden classes.

yukonhorror
10-09-2009, 03:50 PM
from what I read in the WOTC forums, it involves invoking spirits in your weapon attacks. Like arrows ricocheting off of multiple bad guys. But I don't have a DDI account so can't comment. I just think it is nice to have another controller. Not my favorite role, but there are so little controllers.

1958Fury
10-09-2009, 08:22 PM
Yeah, I'm looking at the Seeker preview right now; it looks interesting. It's a primal controller that specializes in ranged weapons. Almost all the powers are wisdom-based ranged weapon attacks.

I like archers, but so far the only good way to make an archer in 4e is be a ranger. Seeker might be a nice alternative for me once I get sick of my ranger.

Grandore The Giant Killer
11-02-2009, 06:19 PM
Hey does anyone have any idea about the Wilden race? Some people are saying that will be a race in PHB 3. Yet others are saying it's a magazine exclusive? Anyone know?

yukonhorror
11-02-2009, 06:30 PM
If I remember correctly, it was a playtest article for the PH3. So it will be a race in the PH3, but maybe not as written in the magazine.

The only magazine exclusive content has been the assassin class and the revenent race.

Grandore The Giant Killer
01-02-2010, 07:45 PM
New Class is confirmed. Ardent! A Psionic Warlord!

Geode
01-03-2010, 05:51 AM
It makes me sad that assassins won't be in there... maybe PHB4? I was so set on making a changeling assassin. If rogues are supposed to be assassins...
...
I'm not gonna lie, that would be pretty lame. I call the FAILBOAT! >_<

I've already let one of my players be a minotaur. There's a bunch of templates at the back of the monster manual. With Drow and Doppelgangers, they differed only slightly from the monster manual in the Eberron and Forgotten Realms books. I feel sort of cheated...

jonnyrockshard
01-05-2010, 02:51 AM
Changelings are in Eberron Players Guide, Assassins are DDI exclusive. You need a subscription to DDI in order to gain access to them. Minotaur is in DDI as well and it won't be the same as the one in the Monster Manual.

Dimthar
01-05-2010, 06:26 PM
I only have enough money to buy a couple of splatbooks per year and an online internet fee to get more content is out of the question. I also play other games like star wars and shadowrun. even if I could pay for the pdf's and save a little money, that still limits me to a couple of books per system.

You don't really need to keep a subscription for all eternity. I found that 2 months a year is all I need to get the information that I want, It updates my character builder to the latest revision which has all the books info and can access the articles that are of my interest (Mostly the Shadowfell "Ravenloft Type" domains).

Since I personally like having a book to read comfortably (Laptop died some time ago), I got the PH2 and if the reviews are OK may get the PH3. Don't plan ever to buy the Arcane, Divine, Martial, etc.. Books. The Character creator gets all the info I need.

Amon Alden
01-06-2010, 01:00 AM
Nothing official here, but I would expect the Assassin class to appear in the next Dragon Annual.

emblasochist
01-06-2010, 02:22 PM
I would actually expect the Assassin NOT to appear in an annual hardcover, seeing as how the Revenant was excluded and it also falls into Insider Only content.

That said, I think the exclusive content idea is a really bad way to get people to buy into the Insider. I know a lot of work goes into producing the Dungeon and Dragon magazines even if they don't actually have to have them sent to a printer anymore, and that the digital content method seems to make sense economically for them, but I am wholly unconvinced that the exclusive content idea is going to get many people to buy into the product. I would imagine that it actually turns more people off to the Insider. Sell the Insider as the Compendium, Character Builder, Adventure Tools and any other applications that the Insider sub gets you and you might very well get a bunch more in subscriptions, which, in turn, reduces burden of the magazine costs.

yukonhorror
01-06-2010, 03:23 PM
In case it was missed, in jan previews, it says the book will have feats, skill powers, hybrid classing, 6 new classes, and 4 new races.

I also heard somewhere (unconfirmed) that there will be 4 psionic classes, so probably only one primal (seeker) and one divine.

for psionic: psion, ardent, monk, and maybe psychic warrior type (maybe similar to a swordmage??)

races: minotaur, githzerai, wilden, and ....

emblasochist
01-10-2010, 05:26 PM
Battlemind was confirmed as a classname, but what it IS, or its power source, is left up in the air. It could quite possibly be a Psionic as it does seem obvious, as either a defender or a striker, but it COULD be a divine class with a name that describes it terribly.

jonnyrockshard
01-12-2010, 02:57 AM
Battlemind sounds to me like they are renaming the Psychic Warrior class and revamping it (which would not be a bad idea, Psychic Warrior was not the best name)

I wouldn't be surprised if it were a renamed Soulknife either, or if it ended up recieving Soulknife abilities. It's definatly the Psionic Defender if it is Psionic, as they have the other roles filled.

emblasochist
01-12-2010, 07:47 PM
Battlemind sounds to me like they are renaming the Psychic Warrior class and revamping it (which would not be a bad idea, Psychic Warrior was not the best name)

I wouldn't be surprised if it were a renamed Soulknife either, or if it ended up recieving Soulknife abilities. It's definatly the Psionic Defender if it is Psionic, as they have the other roles filled.

Err... I know it can be confusing, but they really DO mean that stuff they said about not forcing symmetry for the source/class system. Even after a year and a half, there is no martial controller... Remember, the arcane defender was just plain nonsense... Maybe psionic doesn't HAVE a defender. It could just as easily be a psionic striker, battlemind, or another controller, but not really a leader...

jonnyrockshard
01-13-2010, 01:23 AM
Yet Martial controller is the only source and role system not represented. Arcane Defender works fine and wasn't even close to nonsense; you have to think that a person of such magical expertise could indeed find a way to use magic to shield themselves and force others to combat them.

I always thought it would be neat if the Psionic Defender was a class that urged foes to attack them via thier minds, and if they refused that hint they would take some sort of Psychic damage or perhaps become dazed or what have you. It would be a great flavor, Psychics that wear heavy armor and deflect attacks and then Psionically influence everyone else to attack them.

Still, don't be surprised if Battlemind turns out to be a Psionic Defender.

Valdar
01-13-2010, 02:43 PM
More defenders are needed anyway. The DMG recommends that a party of five should have two defenders, but they're the least common role, particularly since two of the classes that were traditionally fighter sub-classes became strikers.

I completely expect that the "no grid filling" thing is dead- it's just too easy for them to put out one class for each role for each new power source.

emblasochist
01-13-2010, 06:48 PM
While I hear you, I don't really see it, seeing as how there are much more strikers than any other role, and there seems to be little effort to make other classes for power sources in roles that already have multiple strikers. Maybe I am construing it weirdly though, so who knows....

Midnight Genius
02-21-2010, 05:40 PM
Battlemind IS the psionic defender. It was recently released in the character builder. As well as the Ardent (Psionic leader) and the Seeker has been there for a while. I played ardent, lots of fun. Battlemind is cool if you like defender, lots of really nice powers, but I personally dislike marking, and probably won't play it.

emblasochist
02-21-2010, 08:57 PM
Also, the Runepriest is the Divine class. Any info other than that about it is dismally lacking. Of note, it image they chose for the excerpt is a dwarf; maybe it'll be a con/wis class, but maybe not. It also looks like the dwarf in question is wearing plate, but again, that lacks as much bearing as saying that Kangaroos are the final race for PHB 3. Make of it what you will, and hope that the excerpt on them, coming out March 12th, gives us some hints as to what it is. Finally, still no word on the final race; unless the content calendar for March has something in store for us about it before the 16th, you'll have to buy the book to know anything.

yukonhorror
02-22-2010, 03:39 PM
the last race is called a shardmind. If you look at the feats preview, you'll notice what I mean.

Grandore The Giant Killer
02-24-2010, 01:42 PM
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1465/shardmind.png

*pukes*

WhiteTiger
02-24-2010, 09:17 PM
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1465/shardmind.png

*pukes*


loL... me too.. :puke:

Blydden
03-01-2010, 04:01 AM
BLEH. I know they might be stumped for ideas, but come on! They just made a version of the earthsoul genasi for cheez its out loud! I should have known the races were going to go sour after I saw the wilden.

Grandore The Giant Killer
03-01-2010, 02:03 PM
Stumped for ideas? If they wanted another psionic race why didn't they just add those bug people in Thrii Krii or whatever they are called.

yukonhorror
03-01-2010, 02:24 PM
because the thri-keen are probably going to be a race for dark sun.

Blydden
03-03-2010, 04:47 PM
That Dark Sun better defy my current view on published settings then.

kirksmithicus
03-03-2010, 11:17 PM
BLEH. I know they might be stumped for ideas, but come on! They just made a version of the earthsoul genasi for cheez its out loud! I should have known the races were going to go sour after I saw the wilden.

After the wilden, how about after the Dragonborn or maybe the Tieflings. :D



Stumped for ideas? If they wanted another psionic race why didn't they just add those bug people in Thrii Krii or whatever they are called.


Why bother adding more races at all? There are already 35 to choose from. I think next time I start a new campaign I'll pick 5 playable races by random die roll.

Grandore The Giant Killer
03-04-2010, 03:36 PM
^ You're seriously complaining over too many options? Honestly what would you rather a game where players have a large variety to choose from or a game where everyone is either an elf or dwarf? I think these options pose interesting reactions in scenarios.

yukonhorror
03-04-2010, 04:24 PM
Kind of off topic. Kirk, you should try out 1st edition. Much more simpler than the options here or any other edition. OR..

Go with the races and classes of 1st ed.

human, dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, half-elf, & half-orc
gives a good distribution of ability score bonuses

classes (2 for each role)
paladin, fighter (defenders), cleric, bard (leaders {bard was in appendix of PH of 1st edition}), rogue, ranger (strikers), druid and wizard (controllers).

There are other classes from first edition (barbarian, illusionist, assassin, monk, cavalier), but they either don't exist (cavalier and illusionist), need an explicit source for (assassin is only in dragon magazine and monk is in PH3), or wasn't in the original 1st edition PH (barbarian and cavalier).

I for one like options, but that is my style. Some don't and I appreciate that opinion.

and to voice my opinion, I think the shardmind looks cool, so :p

fmitchell
03-04-2010, 06:55 PM
Wait wait... There is going to be a #3? how many PHBs are they going to do?

As many as the market will bear. (Radiation from the Chicago School of Business must have twisted my brain.)

But, back to the topic: are the psionic powers qualitatively different from Martial/Arcane/Divine? The "Betrayal" power gives me some hope, but I'm still skeptical.


I think next time I start a new campaign I'll pick 5 playable races by random die roll.

When I considered running a D&D 4e campaign, I thought of allowing only half the players (at most) to play non-humans; players would compete for slots based on die rolls or cutting cards. The winners picked the non-humans they wanted to play, from the PHB or MM ... and those were the only known nonhuman races in the game. Half-elves would be half-fae if there were no elves or eladrin, or else true elves would be extradimensional sociopaths a la Pratchett's Lords and Ladies. Half-orcs might imply the existence of orcs, unless I decided that "half-orc" was a racial slur meaning "half-demon" and the race's true name was something else.

I also thought of making some unused non-human feats and powers into human feats with an additional enabling feat: "small size" for halflings and a few dwarf feats, "stocky build" for many other dwarf feats, various cultural backgrounds to explain skill or weapon feats, "helltainted" for tiefling abilities, etc. Dragonborn fire-breath would probably *not* be a human option.

kirksmithicus
03-06-2010, 02:01 AM
Kind of off topic. Kirk, you should try out 1st edition. Much more simpler than the options here or any other edition. OR..

Go with the races and classes of 1st ed.

human, dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, half-elf, & half-orc
gives a good distribution of ability score bonuses

classes (2 for each role)
paladin, fighter (defenders), cleric, bard (leaders {bard was in appendix of PH of 1st edition}), rogue, ranger (strikers), druid and wizard (controllers).

There are other classes from first edition (barbarian, illusionist, assassin, monk, cavalier), but they either don't exist (cavalier and illusionist), need an explicit source for (assassin is only in dragon magazine and monk is in PH3), or wasn't in the original 1st edition PH (barbarian and cavalier).

I for one like options, but that is my style. Some don't and I appreciate that opinion.

and to voice my opinion, I think the shardmind looks cool, so :p

1st edition? what's this 1st edition you keep talking about? :confused:

I thought about limiting my game to just the PH1, but they done went and stuck the Dragonborn and Tooflings in thar. I really don't mind so long as the player can come up with a decent back story and how that character fits into the campaign. Also, I don't wanna hear no whining when the village mob comes after your monster character. Just shut yer trap and run!

Shardmind, why does that not surprise me!:noidea:



^ You're seriously complaining over too many options? Honestly what would you rather a game where players have a large variety to choose from or a game where everyone is either an elf or dwarf? I think these options pose interesting reactions in scenarios.

Honestly, yes, yes I am. I'm just kinda like that though. I don't mind variety, but I like to run more structured and themed games than the old play anything you want and we'll try to make sense of it all later scenario. I've done that for many years, it gets old too. AND, I should just mention that elves are the WORST of the lot! Pointy eared little....


Back on topic though. The FLGS just got in the PHB3 yesterday. :peace:I'm to poor to buy it, but I read through it a bit. I'm thinking, I wish they had done the magic system with something like the Ki Augment powers, would have made it cooler. Also the PHB3 Game Day material came in also. I've been reading over the adventure and checking out the characters.

Balashi - Shardmind Psion
Kalen - Half-elf Ardent
Foostus - Minotaur Runepriest
Zazeena - Wilden Battlemind
Izera - Githzerai Monk

Dr.Dead
03-06-2010, 02:25 AM
Man I think 4th ed sucks in my opinion why do you need 4 player hand books. 3.5 only needs one player handbook and I can still play any humanoid race that I feel like in it.

But I guess it has a few good things in it that I can't think of.

The game does not even have lances what the H3LL man. I know, I know, I know. Who would ever need a lance in a dungeon? then I say "What if I'm on a horse and I'm in the grass lands".

I might not like 4th ed but I still play it with some of my friends at school when their is nothing else to do.

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Grandore The Giant Killer
03-16-2010, 07:16 PM
I just bought PHB3 today and I have a few thoughts after cracking the book open. Number 1. SHARDMINDS ARE BROKEN! WTF!!!! Ok I read the class and it basically said that they are immortal. "Everytime one dies another one is made." Yeah my DM automatically put a ban on that race. However I do like the Wilden race. I love how it says there bodies change with the season. Very very cool. and holy crap I thought the Goliath race was hulking. The Minotaurs tilt the scales at 350 lbs. The classes look fun to play. I look forward to making a Githzerai Monk and something for Wilden.

1958Fury
03-16-2010, 08:57 PM
I just bought PHB3 today and I have a few thoughts after cracking the book open. Number 1. SHARDMINDS ARE BROKEN! WTF!!!! Ok I read the class and it basically said that they are immortal. "Everytime one dies another one is made."

The actual quote is, "each time an awakened shardmind is killed, another one somewhere in the universe stirs to consciousness." This does not make your character immortal - your shardmind can be killed the same ways any other 4e character is killed, and unless you have it resurrected, your personal experience with that character is now over.

It's not that much different from the PHB2's Deva, who have ancient immortal spirits. When your Deva is killed, they are reincarnated fully grown somewhere else in the world, but the new Deva is not your character.

Grandore The Giant Killer
03-16-2010, 10:27 PM
Immortal Origin: You are native to the Astral Sea, so you are considered an immortal creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.

wizarddog
03-16-2010, 10:55 PM
I think your reading a bit too much into fluff.

1958Fury
03-17-2010, 08:45 AM
Immortal Origin: You are native to the Astral Sea, so you are considered an immortal creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.

Yep, Shardmind and Deva both have that. That just means that if a creature had some power that does 5 extra damage to immortals, you'd take 5 extra damage. Just like the Elves have a Fey origin, etc. It's just a classifier.

yukonhorror
03-23-2010, 09:38 AM
So I splurged and got it.

Compared to PH2, not as great, but I still like it a lot.

I have always like psionics, and I really like what they did with the mechanics of psionics in a 4e setting. It works well. It makes multi-classing and hybrid classing (a bit later) complicated, but it is nifty.

With the races, I am kind of annoyed. They specifically say how these are really exotic races and should not be common at all. That's fine, but when you have each race have a choice for their second ability bonus, it makes them that much more desirable in the player's perspective. I think for some races this is ok, but for others doesn't make sense. I don't see minotaurs as being wise, but maybe that's just me. And I don't see why they couldn't make the shardmind have a con bonus (and also make the battlemind have INT as a secondary ability score).

I am not a huge fan of leaders, but the ardent isn't bad. What is really nice is the versatility. There seems to be the opportunity to have buffs, debuffs, healing, free ST's, free atks, and tactics (movement of players). Some leaders are great at one, but may lack in another. It seems the ardent is set up to really build what you want in terms of what a leader does.

I am, however, a fan of defenders. By far my favorite role. And the battlemind doesn't disappoint. But it isn't amazing. He has good armor, will is a nice defense to have high for a defender (throws off the monsters), having CON as the main ability will give him tons of HP/HS, and his marking ability is really awesome. One of my favorite marking abilities, because you can augment it with PP. What bugs me about the battlemind is the emphasis on opp atks in his powers and the themed daily powers. One theme of daily powers is going into a stance that allows use of a fancy attack for opp atks. I rarely see opp atks used, so it seems as though it takes from its utility. The other theme is similar to the warden (polymorphing), but the effect is only usable by augmenting. This is nice and all, but it prevents you from using the main augment on your @wills, and can only be done so many times per encounter. In a sense, if you use that daily power, you are sacrificing the use of your "encounter powers" if you take full advantage of the effect. It bugs me so much, because I LOVE themed daily powers. I like the rages of barbarian, or the polymorphing of the warden. It seems the benefit of taking these polymorphing dailies is lacking.

In short, it bugs me, but I still like it and would want to try it.

The monk is nifty, but not for me. A lot of emphasis on movement, and I don't play that way. I like to find the badguy, run to him, stick to him until he is dead and repeat. But he definitely allows for some great movement, if you like that sort of thing.

I only scanned the psion (not a fan of controllers either), but he seems like he has a nice gambit of powers. With the augmentation bit, he can really change things up depending upon the situation the party is in.

I REALLY like the runepriest. The main reason why, is the choice between rune of destruction and rune of protection. I do like how most classes have a distinct choice (warlock pacts, feral might for barbarians, etc...) to really set them apart (especially in terms of a secondary role). But what is so nifty with the runepriest is you get that with their rune artistry feature, but independent of that choice, you can switch between rune of destruction and rune of protection very easily (each time you use a power with the rune keyword). The rune mastery feature allows you to switch your secondary role so easily, and let you really adapt to the situation.

Also, I am happy with the inclusion of the seeker. It is nice to have another controller to choose from. It is really nice they finally have one that is weapon based. And I really like how they went about it. I think he does a lot of dam for a controller (and should be considered a striker), but that's fine. He does have a lot of nice controllery powers.

All of the epic destinies apply only to classes in this book. Only scanned them though.

The hybrid system is interesting. I think it should be used with caution though. I think it makes for some serious min/maxing opportunities that will really sacrifice flavor/fluff. But it also makes for interesting opportunities to have awesome fluff.

One idea I have had is for a warlock/paladin. Sort of a dark knight archetype. I think it would make for a great anti-hero.

The skill powers are a great addition. I think they really add depth to the skill system/game, and I think will really enhance skill challenges (in terms of look and feel).

The feats that apply to non-new stuff are nifty, and a good addition to what is already there.

Also, there are a lot of magic items for use with the classes in this book.

Finally, there are superior implements. This are pretty nifty. They are like superior weapons (have to take a feat to use them), but they have neat bonuses like +1 to attack, or +2 to damage if the power has a specific damage type (like radiant for a holy symbol).

In general, I like it, but it isn't as amazing as the PH2. The main problems I have are with the new races (because no CON/INT race and allowing a choice for ability bonus) and its complexity. I have no problems with complexity, but some do. Psionics and hybrid classing are not for the feint of heart. These are not options I would have available to people who can't handle a lot of options or don't have a great gasp of mechanics. But if complex systems or mechanics are fine with you, then I say dabble.

Gargs454
03-24-2010, 09:48 AM
Actually, I think the Battlemind is a pretty terrible defender. The idea of his mark is really good. i.e. "Go ahead and hit my friend here, it'll hurt you just as much." The problem is that the Battlemind has few options for actually keeping the monster there.

If the monster shifts to get away from the Battlemind, the battlemind can shift with him as an opportunity action. At that point, the monster can simply charge the battlemind's ally and there's nothing the battlemind can do about it because he has already used up his OA for the monster's turn. The only real recourse is for all the allies to group around the battlemind which is hardly a good solution as enemy casters and aoe'ers will light the party up then.

The problems with Blurred Step and Mind Spike can be fixed fairly easily, its just a matter of if and when WotC will do it. As a house rule, I might change Blurred Step to be a Free Action once per monster turn or something similar. That at least gives the battlemind an OA on the monster if it decides to go elsewhere.

kirksmithicus
03-24-2010, 11:52 PM
I don't have the book but I've read through some of it. I also ran the PHB3 Game Day at a local game store. So far most people have really seemed to have liked the augment capability of the new characters. I wish they would do something along those lines for all the other classes (especially wizards), would make things much more interesting all around. I suspect that they will just use it for the psionic classes to set them apart.

yukonhorror
03-25-2010, 08:21 AM
I don't have the book but I've read through some of it. I also ran the PHB3 Game Day at a local game store. So far most people have really seemed to have liked the augment capability of the new characters. I wish they would do something along those lines for all the other classes (especially wizards), would make things much more interesting all around. I suspect that they will just use it for the psionic classes to set them apart.

That's sort of how they were in 3rd edition. It is that psionic flavor that makes them fancy. Did they have a psion in the group?? I figure they were the best analogue to a wizard. If you do get it, they have the hybrid rules (complicated for psionics, though), and could combine a wizard with a psion. So the wizard has a bit of that customization.

Anyhoo, how did stuff play out? I can give my opinion based on reading, but you really have to play stuff out to evaluate them.

kirksmithicus
03-26-2010, 11:22 PM
That's sort of how they were in 3rd edition. It is that psionic flavor that makes them fancy. Did they have a psion in the group?? I figure they were the best analogue to a wizard. If you do get it, they have the hybrid rules (complicated for psionics, though), and could combine a wizard with a psion. So the wizard has a bit of that customization.

Anyhoo, how did stuff play out? I can give my opinion based on reading, but you really have to play stuff out to evaluate them.

Mechanically they seemed to do fine, but it was only two combat encounters and two skill challenges. So I would have to reserve judgment until I've seen them played more.

Thorn
06-27-2010, 07:54 PM
Have not seen it yet.

wizarddog
06-29-2010, 01:07 AM
I don't see minotaurs as being wise, but maybe that's just me.

They may not be wise, but they are cunning and that is reflected with the Wisdom ability score/ Plus it steers them into certain classes they would excel at.

I think the skill powers are he cool, it finally gives some roleplaying powers versatility.

The Hybrid is probably the most excellent addition (which should keep the optimizers busy for a few months. ;). Finally you have the chance to customize a PC and meld it onto some new roles . I'm playing a Hafling Warlord/ Rogue that can provide healing for the party, tell another PC to smack a foe and has a nasty attack with his sly flourish sling. Cetian is more fun to play than a straight rogue and I would not be interested in a hafling warlord by itself.