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LordChicken
08-11-2009, 11:05 AM
What do you feel about the new path finder core book? how do you think it will change the way we play and what are you most looking foward to about it?? do you see any CON's that might show up to ruin game play? and if you do how could you remove them? Also is there anyone who is NOT looking foward to pathfinder? please share your opinions!!

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
08-11-2009, 11:16 AM
I was very pleased with the Beta version. I felt they dealt with issues that have always nagged me about the differing versions. My old gamer buddies like to make joke about someone being a sell-out in our gaming group by saying that they sold my ideas to paizo for many things they implemented i have used for many many years.

I'm not a real huge 4E fan but do see a place for it, in fact i am playing 4E in a couple of weeks with a great group of guys and gals, Tamerath on these boards being one of them. Pathfinder, or 3.75E as i like to refer to it as, is a solid system and i am very pleased with said system. It definitely is a great game, both in design and in innovation.

As far as the cons are concerned, they never concerned me. I just do what every other self-respecting DM does, i houserule. This being said, i really don't see any cons other than fans will have to push the sale to friends of this great product. Personally, i believe that 3.75 is better than 3.5 & 4E, but that is just this Lich's opinion.

I have said in the past that since 4E has been released, i will no longer collect DnD stuff, other than the classics and great modules (i can always adjust modules to whichever edition i prefer), but in the case of pathfinder, I broke my own rule and picked up said product.

Great thread, LordChicken. Thanks for posting. I look forward to hearing from other Pathfinder fans, their opinions, and their impressions. Heck, even throw us some detailed experiences in game.

cplmac
08-11-2009, 11:55 AM
Yes, this should be a good thread for observations and first hand experiences of Pathfinder. Just as long as nobody tries to use this thread as a flame war.

Farcaster
08-11-2009, 12:00 PM
I have posted some more thoughts on Pathfinder if you are interested here: 12236

LordChicken
08-11-2009, 08:33 PM
Thanks for the Activity! What im glad is that the Pallys and Druid been beefed up(or in Druids case made easyer to play), i mean before I had to Bribe one of play players to play one! now I WANT to play them!!

ronpyatt
08-15-2009, 08:56 PM
There are enough changes in the rules that you really cannot assume you know how to play your character based on what you know from 3.5.

I was looking forward to trying Pathfinder, and today, I was not disappointed. Half-Orcs are so awesome!
I played a Spellcaster class basically as Brick in the thick of melee. Granted, I was playing a Half-Orc Sorcerer wielding a greataxe, and I would not have been able to do as much as I did without the help of my companion healers. It was still pretty awesome to fill a role that would normally be reserved for a fighter.

I think Pathfinder was/will be a success.

CEBedford
08-15-2009, 10:41 PM
The class tweaks are fantastic. Although Fighters are still technically the underdog when it comes to class balance, I think a feat every level and class only weapon/armor effectiveness go a long LONG way to making them more than damage sponges.

Monks give me that tingly excited feeling I got back when I first rolled one up in 2nd edition. It just feels like so much more fun. When you need a melee class to close and put pressure on a caster, the monk is your man!

Speaking of which, I'm not sure how it will factor in but casting defensively is now 15 + double the spells level. This hopefully makes casters fear being in melee a little more which would be nice.

The race tweaks are great too. Sure they seem more powerful but treasure control will still play a big role in deciding how high or low you want your game's power level. In all honesty, all these racial buffs do is make race a much more important choice for the all the right reasons.

The new skill list is slick. Simple as that.

My only real complaint is that too many spells are still 100% unless saving throws fail. I'm of the opinion that most all spells should have some sort of partial effect upon a successful save.

WhiteTiger
08-17-2009, 08:10 AM
The +2 stat boost that the races get helps to make up for the 25 point build (if you use epic campaign). I think you'll end up with a character roughly equal to a 32 point build in standard 3.5

Vodka
08-17-2009, 04:41 PM
I'm only a bit of the way through the book, but overall I like what I see so far. Fighters got the short end of the stick again, but I'm honestly not surprised. Fighters never get any love, alas!

The barbarian raging and its effect on skills has a plethora of potentially hysterical applications. I approve!

Dark
08-17-2009, 05:43 PM
Pathfinder in one word :first: awesome :first:. I for one love it and intend on spending a great deal of my hard earned money to support them as they have redeemed my faith.

Once my World's Largest Dungeon is done Pathfinder will begin and the more I read the more I can't wait to see my player's reaction.

CEBedford
08-17-2009, 06:02 PM
I'm only a bit of the way through the book, but overall I like what I see so far. Fighters got the short end of the stick again, but I'm honestly not surprised. Fighters never get any love, alas!


How would you fix them then? I think they got some pretty damn nice boosts here. Plus, fighters have always been about being useful in the widest number of possible scenarios. Sure other class features are nastier but their often situational. A fighter hits you anytime and you know you got messed up!

* 21 feats, 22 as a human. Customizeable class features? Yes please!

* +5 Saves vs. Fear Not too shabby!

* -4 Armor Check Penalty, +4 Max Dex Penalty. This means wearing Plate Mail with only a -2 (-1 masterwork or magic; 0 with mithril) armor check penalty, and a whopping +5 Max Dex (higher with mithril I think).

* +4, +3, +2, and +1 to hit and dmg as well as CMB and CMD with four different groups of weapons. Hell yes!

* DR 5 with no damage type bypass.

* Auto-confirmed crits with a weapon of their choice, as well as a +1 crit multiplier. Freakin' Auto-confirmed!

* Exclusive access to some very useful feats like Weapon Specialization, Critical Mastery, and Greater Weapon Focus.

* The ability to tweak their feat list every four levels to keep themselves tip top. So, you took toughness early on but find yourself with plenty of HP now? Replace it!

Keep in mind all their class abilities stack with other bonuses of their kind. The new fighter can turn even the most basic weapon into a nasty tool of death.

Sure they need a solid weapon/armor kit to really shine but when I want my +5 Vorpal Intelligent Sword of Demon Slaying I can think of only one class I want behind the swing.

Farcaster
08-17-2009, 06:10 PM
Sure they need a solid weapon/armor kit to really shine but when I want my +5 Vorpal Intelligent Sword of Demon Slaying I can think of only one class I want behind the swing.

Me too. A paladin. ;)

CEBedford
08-17-2009, 06:19 PM
Me too. A paladin. ;)

Haha. Bonded weapon is cool but the raw hit/dmg bonuses do not stack higher than five like the Fighter's bonuses. For the best hit, crit, and damage with a melee weapon the new fighter is sick.

Farcaster
08-17-2009, 07:08 PM
Haha. Bonded weapon is cool but the raw hit/dmg bonuses do not stack higher than five like the Fighter's bonuses. For the best hit, crit, and damage with a melee weapon the new fighter is sick.

Well, if we're talking about a demon-slaying weapon, I assumed we'd be fighting demons. If that is the case, the Paladin's smite is going to WAAAYY outpace anything the fighter can put out. With his smite versus outsiders, he's going to get his charisma modifier as a bonus to hit and doublehis level to damage. So, at level twenty, the typical paladin will probably have at least +10 charisma modifier, which means that he is going to have +10 to hit, and +40 to damage on every swing he makes versus that demon. The bonded weapon thing is secondary, but yeah that is going to add more to the weapon as well, particularly when he starts throwing keen, holy and axiomatic on it as well.

CEBedford
08-17-2009, 08:01 PM
Well, if we're talking about a demon-slaying weapon, I assumed we'd be fighting demons. If that is the case, the Paladin's smite is going to WAAAYY outpace anything the fighter can put out. With his smite versus outsiders, he's going to get his charisma modifier as a bonus to hit and doublehis level to damage. So, at level twenty, the typical paladin will probably have at least +10 charisma modifier, which means that he is going to have +10 to hit, and +40 to damage on every swing he makes versus that demon. The bonded weapon thing is secondary, but yeah that is going to add more to the weapon as well, particularly when he starts throwing keen, holy and axiomatic on it as well.

Maybe but at least the fighter's bonuses aren't limited use per day. :biggrin: When I'm knee deep in demons I want no nonsense punishment time and time again! Of course your paladin is welcome to join me! :)

Baldwin Stonewood
08-22-2009, 09:47 AM
My players and I just finished a seven month test of the Beta version and everyone seemed satisfied. As a DM, I really liked the CMB, especially since one of the player's character was a streetfighter/thug.

I just ordered the corebook and should have it next week.

Lucian-Sunaka
08-23-2009, 12:20 AM
Pathfinder's awesome. In fact, I'm a little ashamed but by the same token a little proud to say this, the Pathfinder Core Rulebook is the first Fantasy RPG book I ever actually purchased myself.

Of course there's already a small laundry list of houserules for it, but what are you going to do huh? lol, nothing's perfect and Pathfinder's the closest fantasy game I've ever seen to it for my gaming preferences.

(On a sidenote with the races upgrade I can FINALLY let my players be Tieflings without the stupid level adjustment. They didn't really deserve it in 3.5 but were too good to let them slide by without it, HELLOOOOOO TIEFLING ROGUE :D)

CEBedford
08-23-2009, 12:58 AM
Pathfinder's awesome. In fact, I'm a little ashamed but by the same token a little proud to say this, the Pathfinder Core Rulebook is the first Fantasy RPG book I ever actually purchased myself.

Of course there's already a small laundry list of houserules for it, but what are you going to do huh? lol, nothing's perfect and Pathfinder's the closest fantasy game I've ever seen to it for my gaming preferences.

(On a sidenote with the races upgrade I can FINALLY let my players be Tieflings without the stupid level adjustment. They didn't really deserve it in 3.5 but were too good to let them slide by without it, HELLOOOOOO TIEFLING ROGUE :D)

Indeed. I'm eyeing the Tengu in the bestiary preview as an interesting race myself.

LordChicken
08-23-2009, 04:41 PM
I love the New Druid powers! the animal comp 'leveling' is great! now you could have a wolf at 20th level and it would not get one shoted (most of the time)

Lucian-Sunaka
08-23-2009, 08:58 PM
Um... LC... you do know that they always leveled right? Maybe not as much as they should have, but they got additional hit dice, natural armor, strength and dexterity as they leveled.

CEBedford
08-23-2009, 09:58 PM
Um... LC... you do know that they always leveled right? Maybe not as much as they should have, but they got additional hit dice, natural armor, strength and dexterity as they leveled.

He didn't say "new" animal comp levelling so it's possible he did.

Anyway he's right, new animal companions seem better suited as actual companions and not one hit buffers.

wizarddog
08-25-2009, 01:24 AM
Right now we are changing our EL 11 PC's for Savage tide to Pathfinder classes. DM didn't like the power creep the wizard and Cleric OP were showing in 3.5.

I basically am turing my Ranger 2/scout 9 into Ranger 11 with some of the same feel I had running around the battlefield. I took fleet, shot on the run and improved vital strike to simulate that running around and taking powerful shots my scout had. Now I have a better BAB and more hit points and other powers that make him pretty strong. Course, I'm no longer the trapfinder, that had be given to the swashbuckler who is going rogue. Which is fine, my Pc specifically could find traps but was lousy at disarming them. Thank you Evasion! :biggrin:

tesral
08-26-2009, 08:45 PM
Well I got mine today. I can start to have an informed opinion.

templeorder
08-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Well, Ive seen the original Pathfinder rules but not played with them. I can compare them to 4E and i would choose them over 4E personally. I hope they take off, because i think it would be good to have a strong alternative to 4E, but still move things forward. I've seen a lot of strong response on these forums for it, so i hope there's good community support. I'm just not going to be playing a DnD game again, otherwise i would definitely support it and pick it up.

agoraderek
09-13-2009, 12:51 AM
My group houseruled it to within an inch of its life, frankly. Nearly 6000 posts on the playtest threads on Paizo between us (we all have 4k + posts over there each) and none of our issues were addressed.

Much nicer chassis to hang the houserules on, though.

All in all, I guess I'm pleased with the results. :)

Lucian-Sunaka
09-17-2009, 07:24 PM
Hey Derek. Yeah, some of Kirth's houserules are pretty spiffy, but he's not the only one houseruling the system to pieces.

(Kyrt-Ryder here btw.)

agoraderek
09-18-2009, 02:50 AM
Hey Derek. Yeah, some of Kirth's houserules are pretty spiffy, but he's not the only one houseruling the system to pieces.

(Kyrt-Ryder here btw.)

How'd you know it was me? ;)

I mean, my handle is SO different over here!

And, yeah, I assume anyone who houseruled the heck out of 3.5 would continue with most of their houserules for PfRPG. Same chassis, just a bit chromier, I suppose...

WhiteTiger
09-18-2009, 08:27 AM
Pathfinder's awesome. In fact, I'm a little ashamed but by the same token a little proud to say this, the Pathfinder Core Rulebook is the first Fantasy RPG book I ever actually purchased myself.

Of course there's already a small laundry list of houserules for it, but what are you going to do huh? lol, nothing's perfect and Pathfinder's the closest fantasy game I've ever seen to it for my gaming preferences.

(On a sidenote with the races upgrade I can FINALLY let my players be Tieflings without the stupid level adjustment. They didn't really deserve it in 3.5 but were too good to let them slide by without it, HELLOOOOOO TIEFLING ROGUE :D)


True, although there is a recommendation in the council of thieves player's guide that the GM impose an xp penalty whereby you only earn 1/2 XP up to whatever the GM decides. I believe it was something like 1/2 xp up to 2000 xp so you would only gain 1000 xp whereas the rest of the group earns the full 2000. I believe that is based on starting a game at 1st level.
The GM may feel a need to impose a larger loss to compensate if you starting at a mid-level.

Lucian-Sunaka
09-18-2009, 04:02 PM
OR, the GM can simply allow Tieflings as a standard race without complication, something I am all too happy to go with.

(Though I have to admit I haven't read the PF version, it may be better than the 3.5 one)

Dr Berry
10-19-2009, 10:39 AM
Although I have been reading the Pathfinder pdf for a few weeks now, my group just had its first session last week, and I have to say just about all my doubts are gone. It was a blast drawing up characters, especially because of the power increase from 3.5; I didn't feel like I was wasting my time with a 1st level character. That sense of vulnerability was still there, but I wasn't just sitting there twiddling my thumbs until I leveled into a "real" character.

And as for the simplified rules: why haven't they come around sooner? We actually found it useful to grapple, trip, disarm, and all that jazz. Each maneuver took only seconds to complete. The same goes for the folding of skills. No more of that making separate listen and spot checks for every monster, and now characters really feel more diverse. (Even though folding Tumble and Jump still bothers me a little bit)

And the layout for clerics is phenomenal--our party's cleric can now spend his time doing something besides prying the fighter off the floor every round.

I only have a couple of gripes, mainly with some of the feats. I think Manyshot is still overly ridiculous (come on, two arrows at once per round while using full attack?). Even though the feat is very powerful, I will not be taking it for my ranger just because of the ludicrous image it projects. Also, too many feats favor sword & shield fighters, but hey, I just have this weird aversion to my characters using shields. But for the most part, I think the overall array of feats is fantastic.

We have only just started out, but I am well pleased with what Pathfinder has done so far. My only real complaint is the absence of all those cool supplementary classes (e.g. ninjas, knights, dragon shamans, etc.), but I'm sure those could be converted. Plus, I'm sure Paizo won't leave us hanging without those for long.

WhiteTiger
10-19-2009, 01:36 PM
Although I have been reading the Pathfinder pdf for a few weeks now, my group just had its first session last week, and I have to say just about all my doubts are gone. It was a blast drawing up characters, especially because of the power increase from 3.5; I didn't feel like I was wasting my time with a 1st level character. That sense of vulnerability was still there, but I wasn't just sitting there twiddling my thumbs until I leveled into a "real" character.

And as for the simplified rules: why haven't they come around sooner? We actually found it useful to grapple, trip, disarm, and all that jazz. Each maneuver took only seconds to complete. The same goes for the folding of skills. No more of that making separate listen and spot checks for every monster, and now characters really feel more diverse. (Even though folding Tumble and Jump still bothers me a little bit)

And the layout for clerics is phenomenal--our party's cleric can now spend his time doing something besides prying the fighter off the floor every round.

I only have a couple of gripes, mainly with some of the feats. I think Manyshot is still overly ridiculous (come on, two arrows at once per round while using full attack?). Even though the feat is very powerful, I will not be taking it for my ranger just because of the ludicrous image it projects. Also, too many feats favor sword & shield fighters, but hey, I just have this weird aversion to my characters using shields. But for the most part, I think the overall array of feats is fantastic.

We have only just started out, but I am well pleased with what Pathfinder has done so far. My only real complaint is the absence of all those cool supplementary classes (e.g. ninjas, knights, dragon shamans, etc.), but I'm sure those could be converted. Plus, I'm sure Paizo won't leave us hanging without those for long.


A new ninja would be great and wouldn't be hard to convert. The knight is going to be called the Cavalier which has been confirmed for the Advanced Player's guide. As far as the rest go, it depends on whether or not it's a generic enough of a class (i.e. something found in a dictionary) and not something utterly unique that WOTC created. If you want to convert on your own, I say "Go for It". You should check out the Paizo blog... and there are some write-ups about the upcoming Advanced Player's Guide that will be released at GenCon 2010.

MortonStromgal
10-21-2009, 12:47 PM
Overall its an improvement, but I'm not sure its improved enough to make me move over to it yet.

lomifeh
10-21-2009, 04:25 PM
I got the PDF version of the players guide last week and just started reading it! (Yay PDF on the kindle). It does seem to fix a lot of my gripes and it feels more interesting to me than 4E D&D. I'll need to find a group in my area now that wants to give it a whirl. Anyone looking? ;)

Lucifer_Draconus
10-25-2009, 11:54 AM
Going to get the PDF asap & wait till 1) I find a good group that plays it & 2) a affordable used copy to buy the hc .

Dr Berry
11-03-2009, 09:31 AM
The Bestiary is out! I just got word that my pre-ordered copy is on its way, and it is already up and running on the PRD! So far, it looks pretty good, all except for the section on monstrous characters, which is pretty vague. I guess they just want to encourage the core races.

Anyway, has anyone else checked this new book out? What do you think about it?

outrider
11-03-2009, 06:19 PM
got it last week. I have found that the monsters that I have gone through thus far are all a little different from their 3.5 counter parts. I have looked at goblins, kobolds, orcs and centaurs. Im currently running pathfinder online so no big monsters yet. Generally a stat difference, a skill difference, feat difference all small things.

the art in general is very good.

Undead are no longer immune to crits and sneak attacks is the biggest thing that I have found.

harmor
11-08-2009, 12:51 AM
Things that I really like:


Grapple rules simplified
Tumble (now Acrobatics (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/acrobatics)), allows for low-level rogues to flank targets - beat an enemy CMD by 5 instead of the DC 25 it was in 3.5, to move through an enemy's square
Fixed many classes, especially Sorcerer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/sorcerer) and Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/fighter)
Fixed many broken feats
And most importantly didn't completely destroy 3.5, rather just refined it without doing a full-rewrite and thus allowing existing content to be used with little to no effort converting

CEBedford
11-08-2009, 09:41 AM
The Fighter is only partially fixed. Give him 4+ skill points rather than 2+ and a Class Skill list which doesn't paint him as a brainless bruiser. Adding Diplomacy, Perception, and Sense Motive might do the trick.

Just because he's real good at fighting doesn't mean he's a socially inept, blind man with a gullible streak. Plus you can still build a bruiser if you want by using a low INT and spending your skill points in the usual skills.

I think he also needs something to buff the party making him contribute more than just mediocre damage.

Ne_prophet
11-08-2009, 04:44 PM
I tend to prefer the old amount of skill points vs. the new system. I like the PC's to have the option of having alot of skills and more points to put where they want them.

outrider
11-08-2009, 09:39 PM
might want to check your bestiaries. Mine is missing twenty pages. The stitching is fine, looks like the pages didnt make it. Mostly the G monsters.

CEBedford
11-08-2009, 10:13 PM
might want to check your bestiaries. Mine is missing twenty pages. The stitching is fine, looks like the pages didnt make it. Mostly the G monsters.

Mine appears fine, although I didn't go page by page. What monster does yours stop at before the missing section?

outrider
11-08-2009, 10:20 PM
Its even worse than I thought. Pages 130-136 printed twice and missing 137-153

CEBedford
11-08-2009, 10:23 PM
Its even worse than I thought. Pages 130-136 printed twice and missing 137-153

Damn man that sucks. The only book I ever found messed up was a Complete Divine with the cover on upside down and backwards. I should have bought it as a fun oddity because it was otherwise fully functional.

tesral
11-08-2009, 10:49 PM
The Fighter is only partially fixed. Give him 4+ skill points rather than 2+ and a Class Skill list which doesn't paint him as a brainless bruiser. Adding Diplomacy, Perception, and Sense Motive might do the trick.

Just because he's real good at fighting doesn't mean he's a socially inept, blind man with a gullible streak. Plus you can still build a bruiser if you want by using a low INT and spending your skill points in the usual skills.

I'm going to agree here. One reason for the changes in my Skill system (http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/fantasy/fantpdf/05_Manual_Skills.pdf).

agoraderek
11-09-2009, 02:57 PM
Its even worse than I thought. Pages 130-136 printed twice and missing 137-153

Contact Paizo's customer service. My Core Rulebook was missing a chunk of the spell section (from midway through the cleric spell list to the midpoint of the "d" section of the spell descriptions) and they replaced it free of charge, free shipping, no questions asked, and it was a gift. The only thing is, you may have to set up an account on their web site (if you haven't already).

cplmac
11-10-2009, 05:52 PM
So, does books that have missing sections and such have a higher value since there is not that many of them, hopefully?

tesral
11-10-2009, 08:41 PM
So, does books that have missing sections and such have a higher value since there is not that many of them, hopefully?

The collectors' market is a strange thing.

outrider
11-11-2009, 01:18 AM
my story of the bestiary continues. I returned the defective book to my local game store where I purchased it. we checked the pages and I went out. I was going downtown on local transit when I started to look at the back part of the book detailing the abilities. The printing was stamped twice making a fuzzy look. I had to wait till I got back home to again hope in my car to go down and make another exchange. This one is fine(I think)

tesral
11-11-2009, 08:53 AM
Methinks Pazio needs to have a word with their printer they do.

Farcaster
11-11-2009, 01:10 PM
Ouch, Outrider. Ouch. I haven't noticed any problems with the copies I've gotten from Paizo. Perhaps I have been lucky?

CEBedford
11-11-2009, 09:01 PM
That is some bad luck there.