View Full Version : A paladin and an evil PC can now be in the same party...

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
08-05-2009, 09:45 PM

According to James Jacob's, Editor in Chief, Pathfinder:
Correct. A paladin and an evil PC can now be in the same party. The paladin would likely want to try to mitigate or stem the results of the evil PCs' actions and should certainly try to convert or redeem or otherwise help the evil PC find the light... that's something that's actually really neat and cool for a Paladin to do, and builds in a reason for a paladin to stick with a party that has an evil character AND allows for more fun roleplay opportunities.
But the main reason for this loosening of the paladin code is to allow paladins to take part in adventures and plots where the PCs have to pick the lesser of two evils to ally with in order to tackle a greater evil. This is a really cool plot element, and one that we use a fair amount in Paizo products. By loosening the code, we not only let the player of the paladin feel less guilty about these situations, but also let the GM know it's okay for the paladin to do this and, perhaps most importantly, that the non-paladin players know it and won't be as tempted to be jerks about picking on a paladin PC for putting up with something evil.
After all... what's the point of a paladin code if the code is SO RESTRICTIVE that you never get to test your faith or your convictions in the field, as it were?


I've been playing this way since Paladins were introduced into DnD and have always allowed this under certain conditions.

So what say the rest of you.

What share you?

08-06-2009, 08:34 AM
That's definitely a huge plus. I like that both Pathfinder and 4E have gone this route.

08-06-2009, 02:57 PM
Oh really? Is this a change in the final release because I just looked at the Beta PDF and it says I still can't knowingly associate with evil characters.

08-06-2009, 06:44 PM
Hmm, I have always kinda played this way.

Sometimes working with evil people is for the greater good. That, and detect evil does not just defact show who is evil, they would have to be doing an evil act with evil intent with normal thinking beings unless they were jsut steaped in evil like a demonologist with devilish bits sewn onto them.

08-07-2009, 03:02 PM
If the paladin doesn't interact with evil character's, then how is the paladin to further their cause. Look to the Dragonlance saga. Sturm Brightblade was always trying to impress the ways of the Knights on the rest of the group.

08-12-2009, 07:22 PM
Awesome change.

08-12-2009, 07:47 PM
Also of note, Fantasy Craft actually allows Paladins of any alignment, when alignments are even in your game. Fantasy Craft offers several examples for alignment options for campaigns... Good vs. Evil, D&D's standard Good vs. Evil + Order vs. Chaos, or even elemental themed alignments, or things like "Strength" or "Knowledge".

Regardless, Paladins (which are an Expert Class) in Fantasy Craft are merely paragons of their chosen alignment. To copy from the book:
Depending on your campaign, a Paladin could be...
• A generous champion whose good humor and kindness
bring comfort to all around him
• A black-hearted fiend spreading misery and despair for his
own twisted pleasure
• A thoughtful judge whose steady hand upholds the law of the
• A free spirit inspiring others to greatness
• A mysterious wanderer who lifts the yoke of oppression and
vanishes as unexpectedly as he arrived

08-13-2009, 03:40 PM
I and any group I have played in have always played this way. Where does it say that you could not?

Baldwin Stonewood
08-21-2009, 01:18 PM
I like that change.

08-21-2009, 01:24 PM
I and any group I have played in have always played this way. Where does it say that you could not?

I think the Paladin has always been at the root of a big problem in DnD. That problem is when DMs take way too heavy a hand in controlling alignment and character behaviors. The Paladin just got it worse because he's supposed to be a paragon of virtue.

I've actually had a DM who forced Paladins to make Will Saves or outright attack evil NPCs. Since when was the attempted murder on the Paladins list of acceptable behaviors.

I personally love how Pathfinder makes it clear that alignments are just a baseline for creating character personalities. No two lawful good characters are completely alike.

08-21-2009, 01:45 PM
no more having to worry about alignment obscuring stuff for my mages! YAY!

08-21-2009, 02:08 PM
But where does it say it in the PHB?

08-21-2009, 02:22 PM
3.5 PHB, page 44, under "Associates"

- "... a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code."

The "never" seems rather clear, if ... uncompromising.

08-21-2009, 03:51 PM
That's why I've always like 3.5 UA's Variant classes such as; Paladin of Tyranny, Paladin of Slaughter, and Paladin of Freedom.

08-21-2009, 05:39 PM

08-22-2009, 01:37 AM
That's why I've always like 3.5 UA's Variant classes such as; Paladin of Tyranny, Paladin of Slaughter, and Paladin of Freedom.

Game of no alignment.

That way the Paladin like everyone else must judge people on their actions. There is still a ethical code. The Paladin still has commandments, but the pesky detect alignment is gone, and 99.999% of mortals will not detect as evil.

08-22-2009, 07:29 AM
Yeah that makes so much sense.