PDA

View Full Version : Divine Power



Valdar
07-29-2009, 01:52 PM
Anyone gotten this yet? Admittedly, my group has been waiting for this for a long time, but now that it's finally out, we don't need it anymore, as all of our Divine characters have either left the party or converted to a different power source (Cleric->Bard most recently).

The only reason we'd get it is because the Bard has multiclassed to Cleric (along with lots of other classes).

Has anyone who's gotten it found any must-have feat, power, or paragon path in it?

Thalion
07-29-2009, 02:23 PM
I have it though I haven't really gone through it in much detail as I am not playing any divine characters.

A few things of note. Paladins have gotten a big boost. Among things I remember off the top of my head are a feat that adds STR modifier to damage for Divine Challenge and a mechanism to mark multiple targets through divine sanction.

Tamburlain
07-29-2009, 08:07 PM
I'm planning on eventually picking it up, if only to satisfy my curiosity with what is planned for the Invoker class, which is one of my big favorites in 4e. The most recent WotC podcast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pod/20090710) focuses on the new book and how it meshes with the history of the concept of divine power in D&D.

Valdar
07-30-2009, 09:22 AM
Paladins have gotten a big boost. Among things I remember off the top of my head are a feat that adds STR modifier to damage for Divine Challenge and a mechanism to mark multiple targets through divine sanction.

This seems like a good thing. After seeing what Swordmages can do, I've been wondering why anyone would play a Paladin or Fighter.

kitsune1842
07-30-2009, 03:29 PM
I have it, have not found any must haves, but I play a Rogue at the moment. One of the people in my group was so inspired by the new stuff for the Invoker though that he traded in his Druid for a Dwarf Invoker. WE have not see him in a fight yet, so not sure what he can do quite yet but I am interested.

jonnyrockshard
07-30-2009, 06:11 PM
Avengers are good now. They now have a way to get bonus damage quite easily. As for Paladin/Fighter and Swordmage actually... well the Fighter was already one of the best. Don't discount their Combat Superiority, +Wis to Opporunity Attacks and the foe stops moving too if they were moving. Very sticky. The Paladin was the only Defender that needed a signifigant boost, and they got that with Divine Power.

Valdar
07-30-2009, 10:42 PM
In my experience, opportunity attacks are too easily avoidable (shifting doesn't provoke; running around doesn't provoke since threatening reach is gone)- they don't come up much. Particularly if you are playing with the rule that you should let someone know they're provoking with their action and let them take back their move (most players will demand this, even if it makes the Fighter kind of gimp).

Still, compare the numbers. Violating a fighter mark gains you a basic attack which could miss. Violating a swordmage mark means a ton of automatic lightning damage, given the right paragon path. And, Fighters need to multiclass, use an action point, or be Dragonborn to mark multiple targets- Swordmages get two marks to start and can upgrade to four.

Not being argumentative here- I'd really like to know how to take on Swordmages =)

korhal23
07-30-2009, 11:45 PM
Hold the phone, Valdar. Swordmages get ONE mark, just like everyone else, and it goes away if it's overwritten by another defender, or if they mark someone else. They must choose which of the marks they use at character creation.

Fighters are good at keeping enemies close. If they mark a target (and actually THEY are the ones who can use multiple marks at a time, because they automatically mark EVERYTHING they attack, if they so choose, and have several AoE powers), and that enemy tries to Move away, the fighter attacks, and if they hit, the enemy can't move, move action wasted. If the marked enemy shifts away, the fighter still gets to attack it (albeit they can't stop the movement like they can a normal Move), which is far better than a swordmage, who can do nothing about it. Combine these with the feat that lets them use At-Wills in place of basic attacks and you have a very powerful defender indeed.

There's a flaw in your argument, and it looks a little something like "given the right paragon path". You can't compare the fighter class as a whole to a paragon path for a swordmage. I mean, look at Inner Dragon (Martial Power), or Kensei (PHB1). That's just off the top of my head too.

A Swordmage's biggest weakness is AC... they're fairly easy to hit, relatively speaking. A surrounded Swordmage is in a way worse spot than a surrounded Fighter or Paladin or Warden. Swordmages also tend to lack HP. The best way to take down a swordmage is to pull him away from the group, usually via his own teleport if he's Assault. Then you keep him far enough away from the group that he can't teleport back to help them, and you surround and perhaps mark him, far out of reach of healing. Another fun one is to have the enemy position himself so that the swordmage teleports onto a trap trigger. :)

jonnyrockshard
07-31-2009, 05:41 AM
To add again Fighter's get Weapon Talent which gives them an attack roll boost and the fact they are the only class that can stop a character from moving if it provokes, and you have a VERY sticky defender. Fighter's dont even have to get surrounded, they have several powers which gather people around the fighter first, and then let the fighter make a close burst 1 attack against all of them. There are even powers that allow you to mark other creatures. Don't discount the mark just because the Fighter can't reach him to use his combat challenge either, mark also makes an opponent take a -2 to attack rolls when the marked opponent doesn't attack whoever marked him.

And on the topic of awesome fighter powers.... Rain of Steel. Automatic |W| damage for any enemy that starts his turn adjacent to the fighter. No attack roll, just straight automatic damage.

Case in point, the Paladin was the only defender class that really needed beefing up.

yukonhorror
07-31-2009, 09:41 AM
Paladin has much better marking ability, but also has a build that is sort of a healer with respect to conditions vs. hp. The domains seem pretty neat, and some of the flavor stuff is neat (the motivations of an avenger of erathis for example).

For a party with only multiclassing with divine, I don't know if it would be worth it.

Gargs454
08-04-2009, 04:14 PM
Clerics got a huge boost, particularly if you want to devote yourself to healing and protecting the party.

One nice feat for the multiclassers out there is the Hero of Faith. It again grants the Avenger's Oath of Enmity power, but this version lets it stick around until the target dies and you get to use it as an encounter. Basically, every encounter you get to choose one enemy and do your Avenger impersonation upon that enemy. Very nice power for the melee types. The downside is it costs 15 Wis but you also gain training in a skill on top of it.