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cigamnogard
06-23-2009, 04:01 PM
Started a new campaign, in Eberron, with a new DM this past Sunday. The gf wanted to play a Warforged swordsage so to compliment her I built an artificer. The only things is a rolled awesome stats! I rolled three 17s and three 15s. So, I don't want to just play a straight artificer. I thought I might take the knight training feat and add a paladin class to my artificer.
Any suggestions?

emblasochist
06-23-2009, 09:46 PM
I don't see why rolling good stats should hinder you from playing a class you want to play, honestly. But if the pally levels compliment what you are good at, or round you out where you are weak go for it. Just realize that you won't get as much specialization you would have were you to be straight artificer... Then again, I am not so sure I'd enjoy playing as an artificer myself. Seemed like it was an attempt to be a warforged monk without having to be a warforged.

cigamnogard
06-24-2009, 03:46 PM
No I - a monk...?
The artificer is a support class like the bard. With kick butt stats I am believe I am wasting them if I cower in the back while everyone else rushes foreward and I cheer them onward to glory!
My gnome artificer is as follows:
13 STR -2 for Gnome
17 DEX
17 CON +2 for Gnome
17 INT
15 WIS
17 CHA

kitsune1842
06-24-2009, 04:45 PM
Warmage. Add that to the Artifacer. Extra spells based off of charisma like Sorcerer, pluse you add your int bonus to damge done with your spells....and allmost all of your spells are the ones that blow stuff up. With Dex, Int, and Cha like that Warmage would be my first thought, but then I like to blow things up so...

emblasochist
06-25-2009, 07:11 AM
And maybe an option to consider is to adopt the newer point-buy system for your DnD adventures. I know that 4th edition was balanced around the heavy use of the point-buy system, and nobody gets hosed when the roll 4 1's for a stat... Sure, it means that you can't get all 18's, but it also means you can pretty well play any race with any class and not be terribly inhibited by your stats.

cigamnogard
06-25-2009, 05:26 PM
And maybe an option to consider is to adopt the newer point-buy system for your DnD adventures. I know that 4th edition was balanced around the heavy use of the point-buy system, and nobody gets hosed when the roll 4 1's for a stat... Sure, it means that you can't get all 18's, but it also means you can pretty well play any race with any class and not be terribly inhibited by your stats.
No.
--- Merged from Double Post ---

Warmage. Add that to the Artifacer. Extra spells based off of charisma like Sorcerer, pluse you add your int bonus to damge done with your spells....and allmost all of your spells are the ones that blow stuff up. With Dex, Int, and Cha like that Warmage would be my first thought, but then I like to blow things up so...
Hmmmm...now, this is an option. Except that currently one of the players that has yet to start is thinking of building one. So, if he does not show up this has definate potential!
--- Merged from Double Post ---
Let me add some more information
Gnome Artificer = AC 20
Dex ----------> = +3
Small --------->= +1
H.Wooden Shield = +2
Chain Shirt ----> = +4
Base ----------> = 10

So, I would be subject to a high spell failure (roughly 35%)
Note - the character is also 2nd level.

Other characters (so far):

Wood Elf Warblade
Warforged Swordsage
Elf Rogue
Human Cleric

Malruhn
06-25-2009, 09:55 PM
I'm going to have to put my vote in for pure Artificer...

With stats like that, you would be a kick-butt Arti - and bonuses would keep you in the mix. You could end up VERY powerful - and very wealthy - with stats like that.

The first time you slap the warforged with a repair moderate in the middle of a battle, or present her with a one-shot "repair moderate" glove (think potion!), you would be the star of the group.

Also - my recommendation would be to go human - and select the Cannith Dragonmark... you can make some big connections with that!

cigamnogard
06-26-2009, 03:45 PM
With stats like that, you would be a kick-butt Arti - and bonuses would keep you in the mix. You could end up VERY powerful - and very wealthy - with stats like that.


!!!! Tell me more...how do I do this?

Lucian-Sunaka
06-26-2009, 04:33 PM
Simply put, you take advantage of what the Artificer is good for. You BREAK wealth by level, using wands and infusions to self buff/unload a powerful offense.

Infact, the real problem with Artificer's, is that their very easy to break the party power balance. Unless you really don't know your rules well, or the rest of the party are high level min maxers, your going to be overshadowing them.

cigamnogard
06-26-2009, 04:42 PM
Ummm...I do know the rules pretty well and I am still at a loss as how I am going to overshadow the rest of the party? In my opinion the artificer is similiar to a cleric. The cleric heals party members the artificer buffs party members - how will this break the balance?

Lucian-Sunaka
06-26-2009, 05:01 PM
One moment.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=520855

That should give you all the advice you need. The way it breaks the game is through wealth by level, with proper feats and application of class features your going to be sporting heat in items so much more powerful than anything other classes have. (Granted you can distribute that and act like a buffer if you so choose, but I'm just pointing it out. Artificers have huge potential.)

cigamnogard
06-26-2009, 06:41 PM
Wow! that thread is awesome! So awesome I want to post some of it here:

IV. Feats
1. Point Blank Shot
2. Precise Shot
3. Rapid Reload
4. Metamagic
5. Skill Focus (Use Magic Device)
6. Creation Feats
7. Heroic Spirit vs. Action Boost
8. Dragonmarks
9. Artisan Feats --> I have chosen Legendary Artisan
10. Attune Magic Weapon
11. Extra Rings
12 Wand Mastery
13. Cull Wand Essence
14. Improved Homunculus
15. Rapid Infusion
16. Wand Surge
17. Etch Schema

V. Skills
1. Weapon and Armor Smithing
2. Armorsmithing, Blacksmithing, Gemcutting, and Sculpting
Armoursmith
3. Knowledge (Arcana)
Check!
4. Spellcraft
Check!
5. Search, Disable Device, and Open Lock
6. Craft Skills in General
7. Appraise
Check!
8. Synergies
Use magic device maxed out with synergies!

VI. Class Abilities
1. Infusions
Fantastic!
2. Craft Reserve
Here lies a problem...I used all the party gold without the parties permission to create as many scrolls as I could prior to 2nd level (thuis losing the craft reserve)...do you think the party will be mad? Keep in mind that my character alone searched the rooms and my character alone carried the loot...as well as I alone wrote down the party treasure...as well as the charcter was built to be a "buffer"
3. Artificer Knowledge
Check!
4. Artisan Bonus
YES!
5. Disable Trap
6. Item Creation
7. Craft Homunculus
8. Retain Essence
9. Metamagic Spell Trigger/Completion
10. Skill Mastery

VII. Equipment
1. Weapons
Heavy Crossbow and morningstar
2. Armor 3. Shields
Heavy shield and Chainshirt
4. Assorted Magical Gear
Lots of scrolls :)

VIII. Multiclassing
1. Base Classes
a) Sorcerer
b) Cleric
Thinking maybe paladin or swashbuckler but this post is making me reconsider...
2. PrC
a) Cannith Wand Adept
b) Alchemical Savant
c) Renegade Master
d) Other


II. Race

Gnomes:
Gnomes make excellent Artificers for three major reasons. One, their keen sense of smell grants them a +2 to checks relating to alchemy, which is an area Artificers do quite well in. Second, they are Small size, which grants them bonuses to attacks, their AC, Hide checks, and actually makes them stronger in comparison. While they half their carrying load, properly scaled items only weight 1/4 normal. Meaning they actually gain the ability to carry 25% more gear than the Medium sized Artificers, as long as everything they carry is sized for Small characters. The other is that, in Eberron, the Gnomes hold a near monopoly on the ability to bind elementals into weapons, armors, and vehicles. If you plan on making elementally bound items, you can avoid a lot of hassles by choosing to be a gnome.

Check!

III. Ability Scores

See above ;)

IV. Feats
What feats you take for your Artificer are going to depend largely on what kind of Artificer you want to play. But, here is a brief list of the most important/useful feats for you to consider.

General
Point Blank Shot:
For a traditional Artificer, I would HIGHLY recommend you take this feat at first level. You will spend a lot of time with your trusty crossbow, and after that, ranged attack spell wands. Seeing as you will most often be within 30í of an opponent anyway, this is a free +1 to hit, and with the general lack of good first level feats means you really canít go wrong here.

Precise Shot:
Typically, you are not going to be on the front lines, but in the back row with your ranged attacks. Which means the party tank will be in melee with the bad guys. Which means you are firing into melee, and taking a -4 to hit in the process. If youíve got Point Blank Shot, you should seriously consider taking Precise Shot as well. A human Artificer can take both at level 1, making him quite good at ranged attacks.

Rapid Reload:
Unless you multiclass or take a proficiency feat for a better ranged weapon, youíre likely going to be using a crossbow as your primary weapon. While this is fine at lower levels, at higher levels youíre going to be limited by not being able to make full attacks with your crossbow. This feat removes that hinderance, and ensures that your crossbow remains a lethal weapon for all 20 levels.

I disagree - this is a wasted feat. Better to multiclass to get more weapons selections.

Lucian-Sunaka
06-26-2009, 09:12 PM
Glad I could help Cig. Artificer's are a pretty cool class, and if you take it easy on their item creation and manipulation abilities they can be alot of fun. Just try not to outmage the mage lol.

cigamnogard
06-30-2009, 04:44 PM
Darn it I came accross Monastic training!
Now I can be a Monk and Artificer...still leaning towards Artificer and Swashbuckler. Have to decide before Sunday = game day!

nijineko
07-08-2009, 08:41 AM
good luck deciding. ^^

cigamnogard
07-08-2009, 04:50 PM
I am leaning towards Ranger (for the 6 skill points) for the feat progression. Our group has several times, now, needed a tracker. Since we do not have a ranger this seems to be the way to go.
Now, a few people have suggested to just stay Artificer and I do see the benefits of doing so. However, the last combat made me realise that there is no way that is going to happen:
Round one - surprise round do nothing
Round two - fire heavy crossbow = a hit
Round three - reload crossbow
Round four - fire heavy crossbow = a miss
Round four - reload crossbow
Round five - no line of sight - use 2nd last infusion on warblade
Round six - fire heavy crossbow = a hit
Round seven - reload crossbow
Round eight - fire heavy cossbow = a miss
Wow! What thrilling combat!

I was bored silly.

nijineko
07-09-2009, 01:10 AM
the true power of an artificer comes from wands, from when you get the eternal wands as well as regular wands. survivability up to then is rough. don't forget that you can do direct damage to enemy objects.

cigamnogard
07-09-2009, 02:55 PM
Wait - damage to enemy objects?

cigamnogard
07-13-2009, 03:33 PM
Well went with ranger. Looks like the character will need to eat as the DM handed out 16 gold last game session.
If you are interested in the ongoing story - check out my blogs!

nijineko
08-26-2009, 06:37 PM
yeah, artificer infusions can directly damage objects. or enhance them.

nijineko
08-27-2009, 02:19 PM
if you are allowed to use material from the dragon magazines, there is this one feat that would greatly enhance your crafting abilities... provided you multi-class and take two other base classes from the phb first.

cigamnogard
08-28-2009, 02:34 PM
THe DM was allowing the item feats such as legendary artisan to be stackable.

nijineko
08-31-2009, 01:26 AM
interesting....

cigamnogard
08-31-2009, 01:53 PM
They are in the Eberron book printed that way.

nijineko
08-31-2009, 11:57 PM
ah, i thought you were meaning taking the same feat over and over to stack it.... i know there is a certain amount of stacking.

but if you want a really over the top crafter, then that dragon mag feat can't be beat.

cigamnogard
09-01-2009, 02:04 PM
The stacking was corrected in the errata as otherwise 4 feats = 0 cost in XP and 8 feats = 0 cost in gold :)