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View Full Version : Your take on 4th Ed



emblasochist
06-04-2009, 09:10 PM
Just to get this clear, this thread is for anyone to express concerns or praises about 4th edition. I've noticed that a fairly large number of people dislike the way 4th edition plays; that it's not true to the game. I personally disagree. I feel that aside from 1st edition, this edition is best at capturing the spirit of the game. I've always felt that DnD was a twofold game; a roleplaying game and a hack'n'slash together, melded and marketed to people that want to tell the story of people they will never be. Now, keep in mind, I was introduced to DnD around 17 years ago, which I THINK was 2nd Edition, but I can't remember anymore because I was 6, and my older brother and I never actually bought the rulebooks. Shame now, really cause I love the game in every incarnation of it. But, I feel that 4th edition is the best commercial attempt to make a game that can be both hack'n'slash and roleplaying in however much the players want to play. 1st edition, I don't know too much about anymore, but yeah, monsters were meant to kill you and as Gary basically said, if they're really playing the game in spirit, a character's death should still be fun because you enjoyed the whole road up to it. Now, monsters are meant to be appeal to the times when you wanna carve something up, and the roleplay is just that. You can still be pounded by a monster if that's something you enjoyed in earlier iterations of the game, but the game now is trying to capture an audience that wants to carve everything up and see instant rewards for doing it, and to them, the story isn't a reward. That's the problem, however. The people the game is trying to grasp don't value the story as much as the rewards for being a butcher. The people that liked other editions of DnD should still like this one, if their DM understands it, and the player does too. The 4th edition is meant to be more open for the players, letting them do whatever it is they want, as long as they make progress in the story of the adventure of the week. It isn't for people that want to play in a sandbox and decide that the story is irrelevant. But if you dislike 4th edition when you liked other editions, its not completely the fact that the rules changed and the playstyle is different, but also that you changed from the way you played earlier editions. Sure, some changes seem like bad choices, but I can understand why many of them were done. For instance, I don't LIKE the fact that everyone has healing capabilities (even if they can really be rather poorly implemented), but I understand that some groups don't want to have to have a cleric, because my group has been in a few games where I HAD to be a cleric, when I wanted to be a mage, or a monk, or a ranger. And I don't like the alignment system much either. The old one worked. That's one thing I haven't figured out yet, other than it just was hard for some people to figure out how the Chaotic Good or Lawful Evil characters are supposed to be roleplayed. But like I said earlier, this game is meant to open up options to players; even allowing them, if you have a decent DM, to completely circumvent the story he or she made and solve the problem in a way he/she hadn't thought of. I feel that earlier versions didn't really meet that desire of players. Sure, it means that DMs have less framing to work within, but the game was originally made for people that have some creativity, and it's finally coming back to the spirit of the game; that the players can do whatever they want to make an enjoyable story, as long as there is some half-decent explanation why their method should be possible.

Tamburlain
06-04-2009, 09:35 PM
Ugh. So people won't have to repeat themselves, please just try to pick up the convo here (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10156).

Dimthar
06-04-2009, 09:42 PM
:mad: Or these:

What's wrong about 4e... (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6526)

Will you be updating to 4th Edition? (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5791)

4 or 3.5 (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7197)

4e Initial Impressions... (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6439)

I will NOT SWITCH ! (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4713)

Do you feel D&D has become too complicated? (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7953)

A brief critique of 4e so far... (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8081)

Pheew!!!! :drum:

Webhead
06-04-2009, 10:15 PM
:deadhorse: :fear: :behindsofa:

wizarddog
06-04-2009, 10:30 PM
Well, I haven't been in one these debates for a while, but I will give you my take.

If I want a long involved campaign with role play for several hours and over a long period, with people I know as friends, I prefer 3.5. (And they do too.)

If I go to an open meetup where I play for 4 hours with complete strangers with a PC I make up on the spot, and no concern over "campaign issues", then 4e is the way to go. And that works well.

Not saying that I can't have an involved campaign in 4e; just have not had the experience and don't plan on any in the near future. But if I'm only playing for a short period, I want a system that is easy and that is 4e, hands down.

Grimwell
06-05-2009, 03:15 AM
ORLY?
I say we go with Dimthar's links instead.

BrotherDog
06-05-2009, 05:39 AM
Having dial-up I can't get so many pages to load, so I'll put my 4e statement here.

That's waaaaaaaaay too much money to spend on used toilet paper.

yukonhorror
06-05-2009, 06:38 AM
in short, I agree. For more, refer to my many rants on the subject.

Tamburlain
06-05-2009, 09:00 AM
Having dial-up I can't get so many pages to load, so I'll put my 4e statement here.

That's waaaaaaaaay too much money to spend on used toilet paper.

Dude. Think for a second. Why would you want to give the impression that you know the going rate for "used" tp?

templeorder
06-05-2009, 09:21 AM
I'll just say that 3 and 4, but much more so 4e caters to a different crowd, one more oriented towards online games. This is my opinion - but the flavor of the game has shifted, thats a fact. Its definitely one i dislike and i quit playing it.

Harwel
06-05-2009, 10:28 AM
I'll just say that 3 and 4, but much more so 4e caters to a different crowd, one more oriented towards online games. This is my opinion - but the flavor of the game has shifted, thats a fact. Its definitely one i dislike and i quit playing it.

To an extent, you can't blame them. I'd be willing to bet that more people play MMORPGs or other CRPGs than play tabletop RPGs. They're trying to expand the market by making what is (like it or not) the most popular tabletop game in the world more accessible. There's an old saying in sales that 90% of your business is return customers, but without new customers, your customer base tends to slowly die off.

Also, D&D 3.5 wasn't very easy to port to a CRPG. 4e was IMO deliberately made to be easier to do this. I bet Turbine (creators of DDO) are drooling at the prospect of being able to make an MMO out of 4e instead of trying to make the 3.5 rules work better. A good D&D MMORPG has more potential to bring new players to the gaming table than anything else I can think of offhand, and could of course be quite profitable in and of itself.

All that said, I've read some 4e and don't especially care for what I've seen of it. Haven't played it so I reserve further comment.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
06-05-2009, 10:44 AM
I'm okay with all the editions, preferring the earlier editions(1E & 2E being my personal favorites), myself. Even though i am not a huge fan of 4E, i will be the first to admit that i may be injecting a little bias for the earlier editions, considering I've been playing since 1975, or so. I will say this, 4E is an excellent system for gaming Conventions, for this, you will get no argument. I also have friends that absolutely love 4E. These friends have also easily adjusted old classics to 4E, like WLD (Worlds Largest Dungeon), Ravenloft (see Tameraths blog, he's found on my buddy's list), and others. So what's my conclusion with 4E? It all depends on taste. To some, it's not only excellent, but the best, to others, not so much. Sorry, there just isnt a definitive answer with this one, if one wishes to be fair.

Grimwell
06-05-2009, 03:30 PM
Really though, let's just use the other threads that we have for the topic. :)