RPG's other than D&D

[shadz]

I have recently been on a kick to break out of the D&D stuff. I am currently looking at a few different RPG systems/settings to play in. Currently I am reading the core books for:

The Burning Wheel
The Cross Roads of Eternity
Fantasy Imperium
The Riddle of Steel(waiting for it to be shipped)
Legend of the Five Rings (d20, also waiting to be shipped)

I figured I would start a thread where we could talk about non-D&D games. Feel free to chat about any system you have played. Tell us:
Did you like it?
Why or why not?
Good/Bad points
Would you recommend it?

Let's get this going! I'm interested to see what else is out there that is hidden by the "WIZARDS/D20" conglomerate!


P.S.: I will comment on the above listed games when I get a chance to play them.

[fmitchell]

As we all come out of the catacombs, blinking slowly at the unfamiliar light ...

Actually, what I look for in a game system these days is simplicity. My philosophy is that, when *any* conflict or significant decision point comes up, the players and I should be able to roll dice, quickly determine the outcome of that round or that skill use, and move on.

I wrote an article at my website (http://www.frank-mitchell.com/games/comp-char-gen-1.html) on a few "light" systems I liked. You could start there. I've never actually played Heroquest, Fudge, or FATE, yet, but I've played the others at least once.

Once I GM'ed GURPS (everybody groans), and I like the system. It has a reputation for complexity, but most of the complex bits are *options*, which means that you can play without them (unlike d20). Look at the free "GURPS Lite" version, which strips the rules to a playable bare bones.

I've also played older editions of Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, and a few other "Basic Role Playing" variants. It's a very flexible system, and apart from needing a character sheet listing *all* skills it's fairly simple and straightforward. You could also look into the Mongoose edition of Runequest, which is (a) in print, and (b) evolves the system slightly (with a few undesirable mutations).

Recently I ran a PDQ-based game, and apart from the over-complex damage system I grafted onto it, it worked out surprisingly well. Mine was homebrew; I'd suggest you start with Truth & Justice (superhero), Dead Inside (modern dark fantasy), Questers of the Middle Realms (satirical heroic fantasy), or the recent Zorceror of Zo (fairytale fantasy).

Some other games that look interesting, but which I haven't played yet:

True20 (a simplified d20)

D6 Adventure/Space/Fantasy (I'd suggest getting *one*; the others are mainly retreads of the same mechanics, with different slants and slight renamings. "Adventure" seems like a nice compromise, but if you're committed to Fantasy or Space go for it.)

Savage Worlds (faster dice mechanics than GURPS, but "universal" in similar ways.)

World of Darkness (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, etc. ... kind of pretentious to me, but others swear by them, and the core book could form the basis of a "humans against the darkness" campaign.)



If you'd like to venture further afield -- as "Burning Wheel" and "The Riddle of Steel" indicate, you could consider these:


Primetime Adventures (your game as a weekly TV series)

Dogs in the Vinyard (haven't read yet, but it's gotten a lot of buzz)

The Shadow of Yesterday (only skimmed)


PDQ is also a significant departure, but it's such a simple system you might at least take a look at it.

Actually, here's a belated question: what are you looking for? An interesting background? Simpler mechanics? More realistic mechanics? A better combat system? A better magic system? A system for capturing social dynamics?

[shadz]

Actually, I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I just thought I would try to break out of the rut of D&D and expand my gaming world. I guess I'm looking for something in the fantasy genre, but any more than that, I'm kind of at a loss. Being I haven't actually done any other gaming than D&D, it's hard to say. Just tying to branch out really. Some of the stuff I have read so far in 'Burning Wheel' was actually pretty cool. Character creation is kind of long winded, but it seems to be a more 'roleplaying' centered system. Which is something I need to work on anyway. I guess I'm looking for ease of play and understanding while sticking with a fantasy setting. The down side to looking right now is that I am kind of in between groups, so I can't even truly play test. But I'm sure I'll know it when I find it.

[fmitchell]

How could I have forgotten?

My current favorite game I've yet to play is Spirit of the Century, which uses FATE 3.0 (my review was of FATE 2). It's set in a Pulp 1920's, but with only minor changes you could move it backward to the Victorian Era or forward to the 1930s; with a few more changes you could move it sideways to pulp fantasy a la Conan.

There have been three (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12619.phtml) RPG.net (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12464.phtml) reviews (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12558.phtml) in the past two months. You can get previews on the Evil Hat Games website (http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit).

[Farcaster]

In addition to the published Fantasy games, you might also considering the plethora of unpublished (free) fantasy rpgs out there. You might just find a diamond in the rough. Here is an excellent website for finding free RPGs: http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/freerpgs/bykeyword/fantasy.html

[He_Who_Kills]

I haven't played it and only skimmed over the players handbook briefly, but Castles & Crusades (http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/index.html) looks promising. In my opinion, it seems like the type of game D&D 3rd edition should have been - a more logical next-step. Also, the first campaign, Castle Zygag, is written by Gary Gygax. And there is new material being produced, though not at the deluge pace(which is nice). All that said, it might mean the game hews a little to close to D&D for you.

However, if you're looking for something that isn't WotC (i.e. 3.0, 3.5, etc.), but still has a bit of the flavor of D&D and it's previous editions, you might consider it. I plan on picking C&C up and running it in the new year.

[shadz]

In addition to the published Fantasy games, you might also considering the plethora of unpublished (free) fantasy rpgs out there. You might just find a diamond in the rough. Here is an excellent website for finding free RPGs: http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/freerpgs/bykeyword/fantasy.html (http://www.darkshire.net/%7Ejhkim/rpg/freerpgs/bykeyword/fantasy.html)


That's an awesome site farcaster. I will have to check into it more. This is good stuff guys. Keep it coming! I want to know everyones take on this stuff!

[ronpyatt]

Wushu http://www.bayn.org/wushu/wushu-open.html cuts far away from D&D and number crunching. The combat mechanic during a fight is limited only by the GM's dice cap, and dice are determined by the number of actions described by the players. A statment such as "I punch the orc" will get you 1 die. But a statement such as "I take on the first orc with the hilt of my sword to the gut, and as he's bent forward I use his body as a ramp to launch myself with a half summersault and a flurry of kicks to the nearby orcs, balanced on one hand on top of first one's back, and in a final gesture kick down and back hurdling the first one into the remaining orc, sending my sword up to cut the rope on the hot oil to drench them," might get you 5 to 8 dice. Wushu is all about the dramatic, larger than life fights.

[bilros02]

Eh, you could always check out my personal system Gaia Saga, my play testers seem to like it fair enough.

www.gaiasagaonline.com (http://www.gaiasagaonline.com)

[Digital Arcanist]

Did anyone mention Firefly with the Cortex gaming system? I've never played but I am trying to get in on the play-testing for the Highlander game with the same system.

[QumullusTheNimblest]

I've become bored with running D&D (3.5), too and recently polled my players on their interest level in other genres, settings, etc... Sadly, they were strongly in favor of sticking with the world, characters, & systems they know & love. However, they were a little "open" to some new things, just tentatively so. So, I've been reading many of the same rule systems/games that you've all mentioned above and came to a compromise with my group. We've added a version of Aspects & Fate Points from FUDGE/FATE 2.0 (both Free downloads!) to our D&D game. It's takensome tinkering (and we're STILL tinkering), but -WOW!- what a kick it's given our game! They suddenly aren't digging thru rulebooks during combat, they're showing SO much more creativity and sense-of-story, and the interplay between players/characters at the table has blown me away these past few weeks. A group of former hack-n-slashers are now having a good time with more "cinematic combat" and character-driven story, AND, their GM (me) is really enjoying D&D again, it's like a new game (tho the same, really).
So, I guess i'm saying try importing something into your current game to "shake things up", you might be surprised! (plus I now have them asking about other games! - we're going to try Primetime Adventures soon - woot!)

[PhishStyx]

I think my favorite fantasy game would be Amber, but these days, I think I'd rather redo the system as a rules-medium/lite diceless game,
almost certainly with my long-time favorite, Unisystem.

[panzer-attack]

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has got to be my favourite fantasy RPG.

[Farcaster]

I played the original Warhammer Fantasy RPG, but that was years and years ago. I understand they have a new version out. In fact, I had the opportunity to try it out the other day at one of the game events here in Seattle, but I didn't have time. I hear the critical charts are just as nasty as ever though :D

[fmitchell]

Found this one the other day: Plain English Role Playing (http://www.mearls.com/old_site/PERP.html)

It's still in "Alpha", and has been for the last 8 years ... but at least it demonstrates you don't need some $40 tome to have a workable RPG. (As do Fudge, Fate, PDQ, even various SRDs)

[panzer-attack]

I played the original Warhammer Fantasy RPG, but that was years and years ago. I understand they have a new version out. In fact, I had the opportunity to try it out the other day at one of the game events here in Seattle, but I didn't have time. I hear the critical charts are just as nasty as ever though :D

Yeah, Warhammer is still just as deadly as ever. I actually really like the new edition, they've ironed out a lot of the problems with the original game. In my opinion though, the best thing about Warhammer is the setting itself.

[Moritz]

You mean there are other fantasy games aside from D&D? NO WAY!

Just kidding. But straight up - Fantasy Hero sucks.

D&D is the only way to roll.

[bigeshu]

Just curious, but would Exalted count as Fantasy or Superheroic?

[Kaninchen]

Finally someone mentions Exalted! It's the game I'm most wanting to play (and White Wolf needs to hurry up with the 2nd edition Abyssals book plzkthxbai). I'd call it Fantasy, given the very high magic and low technology levels, but Superhero isn't inaccurate either. For superhero gaming with stupid amounts of power, Aberrant is the shit.

[D-hawk]

I've been looking at Don't Rest Your Head, a sort of modern fantasy where the characters all suffer from insomnia, but have discovered a sort of secret world hidden in the night, called the Mad City. The characters all have a couple of special abilities they can use to accomplish their goals in the Mad City, but they risk falling asleep or going mad. It looks like a fun game that's pretty far from the d20 norm.

I'd like to play it, but I've also been interested in Mortal Coil and Dread recently.

[Moritz]

One Two Freddie's coming for you.

Which reminds me.

I ran a game once where the players were all in a shared hallucination. And sometimes during the game they'd all wake up in an asylum. Only to fall back to sleep and be in the game, It took about 4 waking periods and a few group therapy sessions before they discovered that the game was a hallucination. They were pissed.

Oh, and then I ran a game once where the whole experience was on a holodeck. However, it wasn't until the end of the campaign that I told them, "And then you wake up - and you're all standing in a holodeck." They were pissed too.

[Kelbin]

I loved RuneQuest 3 cause it taught players to be concerned about fighting, wearing armour, and running like hell.

[Jonas Boggs]

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has got to be my favourite fantasy RPG.

I have just purchased a few of the WFRPG books and look forward to trying it. I have quite a few of my local friends who swear by it and it is gaining quite a large following.

I'm also about to start in on an online campaign a friend is running on rpol.net

[Moritz]

Have we mentioned EarthDawn yet? It's a product that's generated in the Dallas area by some old friends of mine from high school.

I don't know what's worse, that I can trace my nerd roots back to high school or that I know people who make games.

Either way, it's good to be a nerd. :)

[Argent]

Have we mentioned EarthDawn yet? It's a product that's generated in the Dallas area by some old friends of mine from high school.

I don't know what's worse, that I can trace my nerd roots back to high school or that I know people who make games.

Either way, it's good to be a nerd. :)

We hadn't mentioned Earthdawn yet, but it had to be one of my favorite non-D&D systems. I just loved the concept for it, which made starting a new group so incredibly easy; you've been huddled inside this protective shell all your lives, now its gone, get out there. Just a really great concept.

Most of the time, though, I'm happy to stick with D&D. But our D&D game is so house-ruled up, that it may bear little resemblance to main-stream D&D. But we like it like that, and that's what counts.

[BeZurKur]

There is Ron Edwards, Sorcerer game. The core book is for the modern age, but his first supplement, Sorcerer and Sword, sets it firmly in the sword and sorcery genre. His analysis of what makes sword and sorcery is one of the best essays I read on any fantasy. Really good stuff. The rules are lite but robust.

[shilar]

I actually like Paladium FRPG a bit rules heavy and unbalanced(but then what Paladium product isn't) but what an amazing setting.

[Moritz]

I have a few Paladium books. I buy them for the art and the fantastic setting that they have to offer. I've never really got into the rules, just too awkward for me, but there are some books that just give me great ideas.

[Jujitsu_squirell]

Seems like noone has mentioned Risus. http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm is a great simple system. If you want a simple game that doesn't rely on dice for everything then this is it. You can create a character in as little as 2 minutes once you know the rules which take about 20-30 minutes to learn. I recommend using it as a serious system and doing away with the inappropriate cliches rule. OIt forces people to really think about their choices and also to be creative if they want to be on a even footing when ambushed. It doesn't penalize you for not doing so but definitely encourages you.

[PhishStyx]

I've always been intrigued by Risus, but it's just too rules light for most of my players (2/3's of my current players are long-time GURPS guys)

[Skunkape]

On Monday, I purchased the latest version of RuneQuest, the deluxe book, so I'll be checking out their latest changes to the rules as soon as it arrives! Although I run a DnD 3.5 game, I really don't like the alignment and levels systems of the game, but I do like the large number of magic spells, stated monsters and magic items that come with the game, so I'm stuck with either doing a lot of homebrew work using another system, or putting up with the alignment/level system.:)

Unless I really hate the RuneQuest revision, I'll be using it for my next campaign.

[ronpyatt]

Seems like noone has mentioned Risus.
Fantastic system, and yes running a serious game is doable with Risus. There are many genres to choose from, and with fleshed out PCs the games could last for years. As with any RPG, a good story to get your game on is all it takes to make Risus rock. What's nice is that you can take modules or settings from other games and use them as is.

Monster conversion chart? Well, it's sort of like this conversion of a flayer.
D20 flayer
Mind Flayer, Ulitharid
Large Aberration (Psionic)
Alignment: Usually Lawful Evil
Climate/Terrain: Any Underground
Challenge Rating: 12

Risus flayer
Mind Flayer, Ulitharid, Large Aberration (Psionic) = 2
Alignment: Usually Lawful Evil = 2
Challenge Rating = 6 (or more as appropriate for the party's encounter)

At least I hope I didn't mangle Risus with this...

[Talaisan]

I've got one so far unmentioned. Ironclaw. Fantasy renaissance setting (at the very beginning of the change between knights on destriers and gunpowder weapons). The system seems like it's meant to give the finger to d20, since that's the only standard polyhedral not used, but once it's demonstrated, everyone I've shown it to has said 'Oh! That's just really, really easy!'

Biggest problem? Do you know how many people will look at the game, see 'furries' and immediately say no?

[Grinnen Baeritt]

I agree about Ironclaw, the dice mechanic appears a bit cumbersome at first... but it works. The system is quite simple to understand..

Who to play it with? Kids. Get them to read some Brian Jacques Novels (Redwall Mossflower etc) for background. My daughter loved it when I played in with her and a few of my more mature gaming friends.

What system other than D&D to choose? It all depends on what you want out of your game, be it simple, magic heavy, crunchy etc.

I suppose you could do a sliding scale based on a comparision with D&D 3.5.

Being a bit "Old School" my favourites are Rolemaster, Warhammer, Runequest, Dragonquest, Harn and Chivalry & Sourcery. (Yes I favour crunchy...;))

The BRP System is one of the oldest ones out there (Call of Cthulu, Runquest etc) and is also one of the best.

Fudge is one of the easiest, I'd have to say that 3.5 is the most rules intensive out of ALL of the Popular systems I've come across.
(There is a system called Imagine RPG which beats it for the depth of rules in the Core Rulebook..but there are few others). Rolemaster, in comparision is fairly rules light (very CHART heavy, although in practice apart from the weapons tables very few are ever used in practice).

For ease of use in play I'd have to say Fudge... simplistic for beginneers but easily adapted for those who want depth.

[Edward]

I prefer open-source games, because you can legally modify them as much or as little as you want and then distribute or even sell your version without any legal problems. Also, there are often free supplements available.

As for genre, I definitely prefer systems which are generic and universal (strictly separate from the world and suitable for any genre). Why should you have to switch to different rules just because the party travels from a fantasy world to a sci-fi world? It isn't that hard to design a system to be generic.

For those who like rules-light systems, I recommend Yags (http://www.glendale.org.uk/yags/index.html).

Here are some others.

http://www.freeroleplay.org/games
http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/freerpgs/bykeyword/open-license.html (http://www.darkshire.net/%7Ejhkim/rpg/freerpgs/bykeyword/open-license.html)
http://www.ogmiosproject.org/Schrodinger/Schrodinger4.htm

[Talaisan]

Above all, do not play Ironclaw with a group compsed of children and perverted furries. Lawsuits will happen. Traumatic memories and so on.

[MortonStromgal]

So if you want to stick with something D&D

1. Still want to use your D20 books - Mongoose Runequest, minimal changes to use the same books if you can accept it wont be 100% the same (+5% for every +1, and Pow = Wis)

2. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay - It may even do D&D better than D&D


If you want something not like D&D

1. World of Darkness - So the best thing about White Wolf is the encouraging of roleplaying both in terms of experiance and mechanics. The new virtue/vice system while silly works well in game to motivate a player to play in character.

2. Pirates of the Spanish Main - I'm not a huge Savage Worlds fan but you get everything you need in one book and I think its differnt enough from D&D to give it a look.

[Moritz]

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay?

Sounds like 5000 mini's in a fantasy setting.

[Malruhn]

It is.

And they are against 5000 OTHER mini's... it never ends!
____________________

I've played about every game and system out there, but I keep coming back to D&D. There's something about having a bag full of unmatched dice that can't be beaten by things like old-school-Traveler (2d6, anyone?), or the d% games.

I'm just prejudiced.

[Skunkape]

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay?

I had the first edition of the game, that is, until it was stolen. Anyway, it was a different approach to fantasy gaming. Not sure if it's everyone's cup of tea, but had some cool ideas.

2. Pirates of the Spanish Main - I'm not a huge Savage Worlds fan but you get everything you need in one book and I think its differnt enough from D&D to give it a look.

I always get the name of that game confused with the WizKids Pirates collectable game. I know, two completely different games, but...

I do like alot of the concepts behind the Savage Worlds system, especially how simple it is!

[Moritz]

Love the WizKids Pirates game. Love it. I sink many ships.

[MortonStromgal]

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay?

Sounds like 5000 mini's in a fantasy setting.

No minis needed. Theres maybe 4 pages dedicated to minis and movements all of which are concidered "advanced" rules. It has a very 1e feel with random character creation. Includes 50 base careers (classes) everything from rat catcher to pitfighter and 50 advanced careers (prestige classes) demon slayer to grand wizard. There are 4 races human, elf, dwarf and halfling and it uses 2d10 sometimes as d10 sometimes as pecentiles. Its a very fast system with low hit points. When your hit points hit 0 however you are still up an fighting it just means the next attack has a chance of killing you in one blow (it may just scratch you to). The magic system is very wild. You can put d10s into your spells to beef them up or have a better chance of success but if you roll double tripples etc bad stuff happens. You have skills more like the old AD&D proficency system only you get them more frequently and you can raise them. The basic system is a percentile roll under and I highly recommend it to anyone who liked any edition of D&D before 3.X