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Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
05-03-2009, 05:38 PM
Who is the most powerful wizard, Ever?

In all the realms, in all the editions, Undead are allowed, who are in the top 5 for most powerful magic user, Ever?

Please name your selection of the top 5. Be sure to share some interesting tidbits about him or her, like Drow, Vampire, Elf, edition and realms found, etc.

1) ??
2) ??
3) ??
4) ??
5) ??

Begin...

Suzaku
05-05-2009, 10:20 AM
Soul Spliced Vaarsuvius is clearly top contender second only to Vecna, only because Vecna archived godhood. Then again they gave Vecna stats and made her 20 Wizard/ 20 Cleric >.>

Oldgamer
05-05-2009, 10:49 AM
Raistlin/Fistandantilus from Dragonlance achieved 25th level and turned down godhood because it would've destroyed the world ... no fun being god of a dead world.

Some argue Elminster vs Raistlin all the time too. Not to mention good ol' Mordenkainen (sp) from Greyhawk ...

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
05-05-2009, 10:59 AM
There's also Lord Dyrr, the Drow Lich. I'd also put him on the list of contenders.
Lord Dyrr, commonly known as the Lichdrow (http://www.penandpapergames.com/wiki/Lich) of House Agrach Dyrr (http://www.penandpapergames.com/wiki/House_Agrach_Dyrr), was the de facto ruler of the house and the power behind Yasraena Dyrr's (http://www.penandpapergames.com/index.php?title=Yasraena_Dyrr&action=edit&redlink=1) throne.
In addition to his large magical and political power, the Lichdrow had lived for at least two milennia, and he was once shown to contemplate his possible ascension to divinity in the future. Thus, before his death, he was probably one of the most powerful magic users in the Underdark. His only rivals in power, in fact, were possibly the archmage (http://www.penandpapergames.com/wiki/Archmage) of Menzoberranzan (http://www.penandpapergames.com/wiki/Menzoberranzan) himself - Gromph Baenre (http://www.penandpapergames.com/wiki/Gromph_Baenre), and Jalynfein (http://www.penandpapergames.com/wiki/Jalynfein) the Spider Mage.



I take the Thundarr perspective: You never really know if a powerful wizard is truly dead.

Oldgamer
05-05-2009, 11:15 AM
I take the Thundarr perspective: You never really know if a powerful wizard is truly dead.


LOL! I haven't seen Thundarr in ages!

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
05-05-2009, 11:25 AM
I have the dvd's, and they're great, Oldgamer. When i was young and the episodes were being sown on tv, I would sometimes model my wizards from the wizards found in the Thundarr episodes. They were cool, after all.

Another contender would be: Jaylnfein "the Spider Mage" is a male drow (http://www.penandpapergames.com/wiki/Drow) wizard (http://www.penandpapergames.com/wiki/Wizard) from Menzoberranzan (http://www.penandpapergames.com/wiki/Menzoberranzan), and is perhaps the most powerful spellcaster in the city.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Jalynfein

mnemenoi
05-05-2009, 07:53 PM
Karsus? I think the gods decided to change the rules after that debacle. I'd certainly concur on Raistlin/Fistandantilus for Dragonlance and Vecna for Greyhawk.

RMajere
05-06-2009, 09:07 AM
What about that demi-lich who lived in the Vast Swamp in the Greyhawk setting...

I must go consult my books...

(oh, and I definitely vote for me as #1)

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
05-06-2009, 10:18 AM
Was that Tomb of Horrors?

RMajere
05-06-2009, 10:30 AM
Was that Tomb of Horrors?

I think it was mentioned in the Vast Swamp entry in the Greyhawk gazetteer, but I'm not sure, since I'm not home to check, we'll just have to wait...unless I do some checking online. Either way, I'm sure someone will post it.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
05-06-2009, 10:32 AM
I've played Tomb of Horrors a few times but the swamp description comes out of the Tomb of Horrors novel. That's why i mentioned.

drewshi
05-06-2009, 10:40 AM
I was always partial to my own character, Horace the Hypnotist. He died in a major battle in which he failed two saving throws in a row.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
05-06-2009, 10:44 AM
I was always partial to my own character, Horace the Hypnotist. He died in a major battle in which he failed two saving throws in a row.
Been there; done that. Sucks. Had my 87 year old human 1/1 sorcerer/druid, with huge back story, die by multiple fails. I feel your pain.

Suzaku
05-06-2009, 12:07 PM
So am I the only one who think Soul Spliced Vaarsuvius deserves to be mentioned? She has a caster level of 56+ along with 21+ sorcerer caster level. She killed 1/4th of the black dragons with 1 spell. She allowed herself to be full attacked by an ancient black dragon taking virtually very little damage.

Oldgamer
05-06-2009, 12:35 PM
So am I the only one who think Soul Spliced Vaarsuvius deserves to be mentioned? She has a caster level of 56+ along with 21+ sorcerer caster level. She killed 1/4th of the black dragons with 1 spell. She allowed herself to be full attacked by an ancient black dragon taking virtually very little damage.


I'd never heard of that mage, thus I didn't mention agreeing or not. If she has 56+ levels, I'd say yes ... I don't think even Vecna achieved that.

Suzaku
05-06-2009, 01:58 PM
I'd never heard of that mage, thus I didn't mention agreeing or not. If she has 56+ levels, I'd say yes ... I don't think even Vecna achieved that.

Vaarsuvius was an Evoker around level 14 who barred Conjuration and necromancy(or at least I think was necromancy). Vaarsuvius killed the son of an Ancient Black Dragon. Later on the Ancient Black Dragon who was mentioned that she will kill Vaarsuvius' children and bind their souls so they won't enjoy the afterlife.

Soon afterwords fiends took advantage of the situtation and offer a deal to Vaarsuvius in exchange for her soul when she would die. As result she recieved the souls of the 3 greatest caster they could offer. Each was described as being epic such being a necromancer who can kill with just a thought, a conjurer who has conquered worlds with a nickname terror of thousand planes and Archmage sorcerer a master of flexability.

The conjurer as provided 2 epic spells to Vaarsuvius (both being Epic Teleports) although the Necromancer is considered being stronger then the other two by the fiends.

For more details here is the webcomic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html) where Vaarsuvius is from including the details of the soul splice.

Oldgamer
05-06-2009, 02:03 PM
Lol, that was funny "I don't need to prepare spell slots!" That would make a pretty powerful wizard :)

LastGunslinger
05-06-2009, 04:43 PM
This is a no-brainer guys!
Think back... before Eberron and Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk... before The Land of Thomas Covenant, before Conan of Cimmeria...
oh ya!! remember that little place called MIDDLE-EARTH that pretty much founded the fantasy genre in its entirety?!?

GANDALF THE WHITE
(period).
the best wizard... EVER!!

The Dread Dormammu
05-10-2009, 05:43 PM
The name of the Wizard (Demilich) From tomb of horrors was Acererak. He's basically a Killer DM PC. Not necessarily the "best" wizard ever but one of the most powerful.

tesral
05-11-2009, 12:36 AM
Abba Eecreeana that is who.

BrotherDog
05-11-2009, 03:35 AM
This is a no-brainer guys!
Think back... before Eberron and Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk... before The Land of Thomas Covenant, before Conan of Cimmeria...
oh ya!! remember that little place called MIDDLE-EARTH that pretty much founded the fantasy genre in its entirety?!?

GANDALF THE WHITE
(period).
the best wizard... EVER!!

Both Gandalf and Merlin were Druids as written, not wizards.

I have to agree that Karsus and Acererak be the big guys. But let us not forget Daruth Winterwood, he no longer has a brain and is still not to be trifled with. I almost forgot aboot Halaster Blackcloak and Sammaster.

Sethannon
05-11-2009, 12:52 PM
Since people have been throwing out quite a few FR names lately, I'll add one to the list.

What is the name of the lich that created the Death Moon Orb...Larloch?

If I recall correctly, he surived through Karus' Folly and has quite a few personal deals cut with Mystra.

Correct me if I'm wrong, however.

nijineko
05-13-2009, 09:29 PM
one suggestion for consideration is inzhilem, the wizard who lead the suloise imperial council in the creation of the eight orbs of dragonkind, a task which took the combined efforts of the council's most powerful mages ten years to complete.

another would be lyzandred, his quest to neutralize and/or destroy dangerous magic items that the evil would use to destroy or conquer the prime material eventually led him to lichdom. unfortunately, he learned of the side effects of the demiplane he discovered that was perfect for just such a purpose a little too late for his own sanity. he later tutored zagig, who is also worthy of mention.

another might be slerotin, the last mage of power, who opened up the tunnel beneath the crystalmist mountains.

it is also reasonable to consider zagig yragerne. tutored by lyzandred "the mad" in his youth, later became the despot of hardby, built castle greyhawk, zagig's bridge, discoverer of the orb of the great serpent, ruler of greyhawk city, founder of the grey college and the guild of wizardry, adoptive father of the future lord yrag of the citidel of the eight, changes his name to zagyg, successfully traps nine demi-gods-including iuz-thereby successfully managing to ascend to demi-god hood himself.

the maure family is the last suggestion. they managed to rediscover the lost secrets of suloise and baklunesh power magic (epic magic) and scattered themselves across the planes with the few remaining on the prime material haunting the ruins of maure castle. (in some cases literally.)

BrotherDog
05-14-2009, 07:15 AM
I'd almost forgotten the great ones Slarkrethel and Dargauthoth.

Chosen of Tempus
05-14-2009, 09:44 PM
Kyuss, Herald of the Age of Worms. I don't know how he'd measure up to Karsus or Raistlin, but he's pretty damned powerful.

Although 4E seems to think Kyuss is Arcane, I don't know if I'd label Kyuss as a wizard, now that I think about it. Wasn't he a priest originally?

nijineko
05-14-2009, 11:39 PM
i believe he became a 'worm that walks', or some variant thereof. which does require arcane casting ability. perhaps he was both?

BrotherDog
05-15-2009, 02:32 AM
Kyuss, Herald of the Age of Worms. I don't know how he'd measure up to Karsus or Raistlin, but he's pretty damned powerful.

Although 4E seems to think Kyuss is Arcane, I don't know if I'd label Kyuss as a wizard, now that I think about it. Wasn't he a priest originally?

Kyuss was a Druid, not a Wiz. He became a God , and was one of the only 2 Greyhawk Dieties I ever heard of (as a diety) until 3e. The other of course was good ol' Tharizdun. But he did obtained arcane abilities from an artifact from the Spellweaver ruins, but wasn't truly an arcanist.

tesral
05-15-2009, 11:00 AM
The Great and Powerful Oz

(says so right on the label)

Dytrrnikl
05-15-2009, 11:41 AM
Both Gandalf and Merlin were Druids as written, not wizards.


Merlin was actually both a Druid and Wizard according to the 2E Legends and Lore book. As for Gandalf, he was a wizard, not a druid. If you put Gandalf in the context of DnD, his magic is very elemental and nature based and can be perceived as druidic. However, in the realm of Middle-Earth and as Tolkien decribed Gandalf and his ilk - Saruman and Gandalf's cousin Radagast - are Wizards. Not to mention the line they opened up Fellowship with from Gandalf "Late?! A Wizard is never late; he arrives precisely when he means to..." followed by laughter.

With that, here's my top 3, which I see as being equal to one another...
Gandalf the White...Zeddicus Z'ul Zorander, Wizard of the First Order <from the novels, not the horrible shadow presented in the show - great way to ruin an awesome series, thanks Disney and Raimi>...and Ivy, The Archive from the Harry Dresden novels.

Vulture
05-17-2009, 08:29 AM
What about Harry Potter? just kidding. I think it is a toss up between Raistlin and Elminster and Gandalf the White.

Baldwin Stonewood
05-19-2009, 01:15 PM
How about archmage, Iggwilv, powerful enough to conjure and then imprison Graz'zt on the material plane.

templeorder
05-19-2009, 01:44 PM
This really depends on how you measure power. If in levels, well then whoever has the most wins, but if you measure in influence (continued influence i would argue) then its going to be a difficult one. There's a lot of mages that have massive influence, yet are not gods, nor that high level (compared to others) - they are just really smart and know where to interject themselves and have powerful allies and friends. Sounds cliche, but Elminster seems to be pulling a whole lotta puppet strings at once if you ask me - at least thats the way they portray him. Dang, this is not easy...

BrotherDog
05-20-2009, 04:47 AM
This really depends on how you measure power. If in levels, well then whoever has the most wins, but if you measure in influence (continued influence i would argue) then its going to be a difficult one. There's a lot of mages that have massive influence, yet are not gods, nor that high level (compared to others) - they are just really smart and know where to interject themselves and have powerful allies and friends. Sounds cliche, but Elminster seems to be pulling a whole lotta puppet strings at once if you ask me - at least thats the way they portray him. Dang, this is not easy...

Yeah. In such a case as levels no one is even close to Hadrune's 45 levels. When one considers hit points, it's a whole different story with Dragons, Dracoliches, and Krakens, Oh my!!!

Oldgamer
05-21-2009, 11:27 AM
It would have to be a ratio of sorts then, because in 1E AD&D, 45th level would be unheard of but in 3.x it can happen in one weekend practically. Level's were attained at a much slower rate in 1E, if you reached level 12 within a year you were doing good. In the games I've played 3.x, attaining Epic from level 1 can be done in 6 months. You can attain 20th level in 3.5 at 190,000 xp ... in 1E you were in the millions at that point. (My 1E PHB is in storage or I could tell you exactly, but I do remember it being in the millions ... and it was different for every class) So in reality, if Raistlin was 25th level in 1E, he would be around 100 or so in 3.x :lol: And his influence went through millenia and the whole world spanning that millenia and would've ended the world had his idiot brother not given him the epiphany of "If you beat the Dark Queen ... the world would be destroyed by the battle and you would have no world to rule!" Damn Caramon, ruined everything :D

Chosen of Tempus
05-21-2009, 06:56 PM
What about Rivalen Tanthul? Has he been mentioned? Technically I guess the first Prince of Shade is not strictly a wizard... But he's still a wizard and he's definitely very powerful. Not as powerful as Vecna, I wouldn't think, but Rivalen is a demi-god.

BrotherDog
05-22-2009, 03:04 AM
It would have to be a ratio of sorts then, because in 1E AD&D, 45th level would be unheard of but in 3.x it can happen in one weekend practically. Level's were attained at a much slower rate in 1E, if you reached level 12 within a year you were doing good. In the games I've played 3.x, attaining Epic from level 1 can be done in 6 months. You can attain 20th level in 3.5 at 190,000 xp ... in 1E you were in the millions at that point. (My 1E PHB is in storage or I could tell you exactly, but I do remember it being in the millions ... and it was different for every class) So in reality, if Raistlin was 25th level in 1E, he would be around 100 or so in 3.x :lol: And his influence went through millenia and the whole world spanning that millenia and would've ended the world had his idiot brother not given him the epiphany of "If you beat the Dark Queen ... the world would be destroyed by the battle and you would have no world to rule!" Damn Caramon, ruined everything :D

No in 3e lvl 20 is max before going epic, and epic levels take forever to advance. If you're familiar with Elminster his combined levels are about 30 if I remember right. Hadrune is a Lich that was born in Netheril, and therefore extremely old.

Never looked back when 3e came out, other than for the better versions of creatures and their lore, 1 & 2e had too many stupid, idiotic restrictions that I always hated. So why go back? The time to level isn't THAT different.

tesral
05-22-2009, 09:48 AM
It would have to be a ratio of sorts then, because in 1E AD&D, 45th level would be unheard of but in 3.x it can happen in one weekend practically. Level's were attained at a much slower rate in 1E, if you reached level 12 within a year you were doing good. In the games I've played 3.x, attaining Epic from level 1 can be done in 6 months. You can attain 20th level in 3.5 at 190,000 xp ... in 1E you were in the millions at that point. (My 1E PHB is in storage or I could tell you exactly, but I do remember it being in the millions ... and it was different for every class) So in reality, if Raistlin was 25th level in 1E, he would be around 100 or so in 3.x

Except that you got more XP per encounter in 1e and you get less in 3. The exact numbers are less important than the ratio of a level you get. Also 1-2e has an experience cap. Once you reach 9th level the amount for the next level is the same as the last 250,000 for the fighter for example. So, from 10th to 11th level? you need 250,000. Forn 25th to 26th? You need another 250,000. With 3e that number keeps going up. That slows down high level advancment.

The ratio matters to the point that I calculate session XP based on a precentage of the next level. I have a chart to give me the numbers.

Dytrrnikl
05-23-2009, 06:21 AM
...1 & 2e had too many stupid, idiotic restrictions that I always hated. So why go back? The time to level isn't THAT different.

I disagree with the above. The restrictions of 2E is what i loved about the game. Humans being the only race that could have unlimited level advancement. Dwarves and Halflings that couldn't be wizards. Max level in different classes for demi-humans that could be gotten above only with exceptional ability scores - which were truly exceptional in 2E and not so munchkin as they are in 3E and later editions. As for the time to level, it took the fighter 250,000 XP to reach 9th level, and then you had to earn 250,000 XP more to reach 10th, and then another 250,000 XP to reach 11th, and another 250,000 XP to reach 12th, and so on. The Wizard maxed at needing 375,000 XP for each level above 10th I think, and the Rogue, both the Thief and Bard maxed at needing 220,000 XP for each level after a certain point. Time to level was indeed slower. SO i don't know what game you played.

BrotherDog
05-23-2009, 06:56 AM
I disagree with the above. The restrictions of 2E is what i loved about the game. Humans being the only race that could have unlimited level advancement. Dwarves and Halflings that couldn't be wizards. Max level in different classes for demi-humans that could be gotten above only with exceptional ability scores - which were truly exceptional in 2E and not so munchkin as they are in 3E and later editions. As for the time to level, it took the fighter 250,000 XP to reach 9th level, and then you had to earn 250,000 XP more to reach 10th, and then another 250,000 XP to reach 11th, and another 250,000 XP to reach 12th, and so on. The Wizard maxed at needing 375,000 XP for each level above 10th I think, and the Rogue, both the Thief and Bard maxed at needing 220,000 XP for each level after a certain point. Time to level was indeed slower. SO i don't know what game you played.

Anything that gave Pew-mans more candy is completely lame. It's like a tyrant dictating too many things in your choices. Plus it seems you're forgetting all the bonus xp in 1 & 2e. Every class had it. Fighters got bonus xp/monster HD. Casters got bonus xp/spell level cast, 100 for 1st, 200 for 2nd..., and so on. Thieves got bonus xp = to amount of gp acquired. There is no such thing in 3e. I always levelled waaay faster in 2e, at least 1 lvl/session. In 3e, it usually takes me 10 or more sessions between levels. Highest level I've gotten in 3.xe is 12 without starting them at a higher level, in 2e it was closer to 30. But then again, that could have allot to do with one's DM's gaming style too. Reguardless of edition.

However 3e's hitpoints tend to be waaay higher as you get another die each level up to 20. It only went to 9th with an allocated number depending on class thereafter in both 1 & 2e. The only exception to getting more than 9HD back then was the 1e Bard, the first PrC really.

russdm
05-23-2009, 06:10 PM
I would have to go with these choices and will explain why:

1) Raistlin-He makes a pact with a lich, he gains control of a dragon orb, he goes back in time to kick Fistandantilus' butt, and he challenges Takhisis for godhood. He succeeded and destroyed the world. Can't get any better...

2) Fistandantilus-He is just a nasty dude and that makes him cool for that reason.

3) Dalamar-Raistlin's apprentice can seriously kick down with the best. He inherited Raistlin's tower too.

4) Gandalf-Tolkien's wizard dies than comes back to life to put the smack down on Sauron's minions. Killing a Balrog is a big achievement.

5) Elminister-He loved a goddess. Umm. I can't think of anything else special.

6) Morkenkainen-He has a castle and there are spells named for him in the phb.

7) Other Dragonlance wizards-They are simply neat.

That would have to be my list.

MrFrost
05-25-2009, 10:37 AM
I'm going to have to go with Raistlin, for all he had to go through and give up for such power makes him in my mind the greatest of all the D&D Wizards. Though Elminster is a close second.

Dytrrnikl
05-26-2009, 10:43 PM
Anything that gave Pew-mans more candy is completely lame. It's like a tyrant dictating too many things in your choices. Plus it seems you're forgetting all the bonus xp in 1 & 2e. Every class had it. Fighters got bonus xp/monster HD. Casters got bonus xp/spell level cast, 100 for 1st, 200 for 2nd..., and so on. Thieves got bonus xp = to amount of gp acquired.

IN the 2E games I played and those I ran as DM, the only bonus XP granted wasif your Prime Attribute Str-Fighter, Dex-Rogue, Int-Wiz, and so forth was exceptional. +5% if it was a 15 or 16, +10% if it was a 17 or better. Fighters never got it for monster/HD vaniquished, or Casters for spells, or Thieves for gold. Our 2E games it took 2 to 2 1/2 years, meeting once a week for a 5 to 6 hour session to hit 9th to 10th level depending on the class. In the 3E games I've played and those I've run, playing once a week the same level was hit after 7 or 8 months. With the exception of one or two groups, for the most part, a slower XP gain is preferred. Advance to quickly and it feels like character power is an entitlement without having to earn what they have; while if the XP gain is slower, reaching levels above 9th feel more meaningful and earned. Heck, the Star Wars saga game I've been running since the game came out, the characters are only just now hitting 9th level, granted we only play once every 3 weeks on average. Then again, as you said, XP gain is dependent on GM style.

Nikodemos (called Torch)
07-15-2009, 02:13 PM
This one is a tough decision. There are so many great wizards from campaigns, literature, folklore, etc.

1. Raistlin Majere (sure comparative to other higher magic worlds he wasnt that powerful....but when u consider that he disdained "rings, wands, and the accoutremants of lesser mages", helped defeat Takhisis, later went on to defeat Fistandantilus and the other great wizards in Krynn as well, and challenged a Goddess simply by his amibitions, intelligence, and drive. After throwing down all the other Krynn deities as well, those are tough shoes to fill. After all, in the end, he HAD to defeat (or sacrifice some might say) himself. That is power personified)

2. Elminster (a man of many talents--and classes--who truly is a near demi-god himself. Sure the Symbul, Khelben, and that crowd are higher level....but its a measure of his power, that ALL respect him as they do.)

3. Master liches like Larloch, Vecna, The Fool, Szass Tam, Halaster, and numerous others are so powerful as to defy description anyway. When u consider the power of The Simbul, Mordenkainen, Khelben Blackstaff, not to mention other mages like the Red Wizards...just too many powerful ones to single one of these out.

4. Gandalf (he was a mover and shaker, tho a humble soul and servant...the original wizard role model)

Speech
07-15-2009, 02:41 PM
I agree that this is a tough list to make..I'll agree with what has been said..and add one of my own.

1. Eliminster-having the backing of the god of magic puts more "oomf" into your spells I would think; he pretty much has the option to become a demi-god himself...but is too busy chasing women and having a grand old time

2. Raistlin-for all of the reasons that have been said-defeating Fistandatilus, and having the ability to defeat a greater god, but stepping down cuz your brother asked you to play nice ;)

3. Halaster/Larloch-it's hard to place these two because I don't remember seeing stats for them, but having powerful beings steer clear of you in case you're in a bad mood does say something I'd think

4. Gandalf-a spirit sent by the gods to indirectly battle another spirit by subtley goading the free races into action speaks to what makes a wzard special-being very clever; having the power to lay the smack-down on a fairly powerful balrog helps too

5. The Iron Mage-from Monte Cook's setting Ptolus, he's an enigma whose sole purpose seems to be learning as much as he/she can about magic, his hobbies include dropping in on magically protected meetings-to see if he can and annoying the government by doing as he pleases when it comes to spell flinging-it helps that he wears a full suit of plate mail (that he made) that is itself an artifact

tesral
07-15-2009, 03:11 PM
Everyone forgets Merlin.....

Talinon
09-19-2009, 04:46 PM
I have to go for Raistlin as well. His merits are unparalleled.

tesral
09-19-2009, 11:28 PM
Merlin would eat his lunch.

Arkhemedes
09-19-2009, 11:39 PM
Merlin would eat his lunch.
I don't see how you could say that. I've read numerous books on Merlin and in none of them (most especially the stories of Morte D'arthur) is he anywhere near as powerful as the truly powerful wizards of modern fantasy.

Lucian-Sunaka
09-19-2009, 11:43 PM
With that, here's my top 3, which I see as being equal to one another...
Gandalf the White...Zeddicus Z'ul Zorander, Wizard of the First Order <from the novels, not the horrible shadow presented in the show - great way to ruin an awesome series, thanks Disney and Raimi>...and Ivy, The Archive from the Harry Dresden novels.

Well... I wouldn't exactly call Zed the most powerful wizard. He's only a wizard of additive magic remember. Sure he's awesome, and probably the most powerful pure additive caster ever, and if not he sure as hell is the most creative and dirty (while staying within certain bounds of morality) of them all.

As for the MOST powerful wizard ever, I would have to say Richard's ancestor who invented the Dharran Bond. That or perhaps Richard as he was inside the Temple of the Winds.

mnemenoi
09-20-2009, 08:39 AM
I still say that Karsus would be the most powerful in the realms themselves, as opposed to Elminster. He rewrote the rules of magic completely and managed to unmake the weave, even if by accident. He also became a deity, though only for a brief moment.

Taken from the Wiki artilcle...

Shouldering the responsibility for preserving his civilization, Karsus finished creating a spell, Karsus's Avatar he had been developing for years. This spell would steal the power of a deity and transfer it to the archwizard that cast it. Karsus believed that with the power of a deity at his disposal, he could destroy the Phaerimm and unite his people. Karsus cast the spell in the 3,520th year of Netheril, -339 DR, and chose Mystryl, the goddess of magic, as his target, feeling that she was the most powerful deity and the most appropriate choice for his purposes. Karsus gained the powers over all magic.

Unfortunately, his choice was a terrible mistake, for one of the responsibilities of the deity of magic was to regulate the flow of magic to and from all beings, spells, and magic items in the world. Lacking the experience to do so properly, magic surged and fluctuated. With her last remaining bit of power, Mystryl sacrificed herself to block Karsus's access to the weave, causing all magic to fail. The flying cities of Netheril plummeted to the earth. The severing of the link also killed Karsus and transformed him into stone, and the last thing he saw was his entire civilization being destroyed because of his actions. This was to be known as Karsus's Folly. The stone form of Karsus eventually landed in a part of the High Forest, now called the Dire Wood. The city of Karse was built around its base.

After his death the deities vowed to never allow wizardry in the realms to elevate to that plateau ever again, thus any that came after would be bound by Mystril's newer weave which forbid access to that level of power.

traesin
09-20-2009, 09:31 AM
I vote for Thoth:D

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
09-20-2009, 09:40 AM
I vote for Thoth:D
That would be the correct answer.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon, God of the underworld and the hells. My main squeeze, Lolth, likes to think she wears the pants, er.. um.. cloak, but she doesn't. I do admire her passion even if i have to continually watch out for her spiders kiss. And when she gets into her moods, then i just leave her be to stew while spending time with my loving harem of succubi.

tesral
09-20-2009, 10:55 AM
That would be the correct answer.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon, God of the underworld and the hells. My main squeeze, Lolth, likes to think she wears the pants, er.. um.. cloak, but she doesn't. I do admire her passion even if i have to continually watch out for her spiders kiss. And when she gets into her moods, then i just leave her be to stew while spending time with my loving harem of succubi.

A dude... what does a Lich do with girls?

And really there is that whole you don't really LEARN anything once you gain undeath. It's a sad affair that is a pale imitation of immortality.,

Now, if you are looking for a real Wizard, my chiya down the road here Abba Eecreeana, he can run rings around any three of these guys. But he is ten times my age and has really been there and done that. He has forgotten more magic yawning in the morning than Rasilan ever learned. There is the whole getting caped at 20th level thing. He thinks Elminster is a weekend dabbler with more ego than sense. He has more magic in his pin feathers than Galdalf does in his whole body, including the one he left at the roots of the Mountain.

Not that I'm a piker, but I know my limits.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
09-20-2009, 11:01 AM
???



A dude... what does a Lich do with girls?


You mean, what do they not do? That would be the correct question.

And really there is that whole you don't really LEARN anything once you gain undeath. It's a sad affair that is a pale imitation of immortality.,

Never followed that rule. Rule truly doesn't exist, after all. A wives tale brought on by wizards. It really doesn't make sense anyway, i mean, Liches study for a 1000 years thier magic and gain nothing? I can tell you that we do gain in magical knowledge and strength. Not to mention, if we are on this plane long enough, we are also great sages(thought you'd appreciate this word, tesral, being Old School like me).

Now, if you are looking for a real Wizard, my chiya down the road here Abba Eecreeana, he can run rings around any three of these guys. But he is ten times my age and has really been there and done that. He has forgotten more magic that Rasilan ever learned. He thinks Elminster is a weekend dabbler. He has more magic in his pin feathers than Galdalf does in his whole body, including the one he left at the roots of the Mountian.

Not that I'm a piker, but I know my limits.

tesral
09-20-2009, 02:44 PM
It really doesn't make sense anyway, i mean, Liches study for a 1000 years thier magic and gain nothing? I can tell you that we do gain in magical knowledge and strength. Not to mention, if we are on this plane long enough, we are also great sages(thought you'd appreciate this word, tesral, being Old School like me).

I mean, after your brain rots you're just moving on undead energy.

Out game mode I do limit Liches, its a fool's bargain. The dead learn nothing, but study the same thing again and again. Progress and learning are for the living. Even in undeath the dead do nothing but rot.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
09-20-2009, 05:08 PM
We are beings or magic. The only Liches that die out through hundreds to 1000's of years are the one's that don't continue their study of magic. That's why you read of some Liches that die out or get weaker over time, yet others become more powerful eventually mastering magic, at least from a mortals standpoint. There is plenty of myth surrounding Liches, but most are nonsense. If ever a Lich wants a mortal body again, that is no difficult thing. We chose not to take on the flesh again for it is weaker in every way. Once you know the power of Lichdom, then you'd realize the awesomeness and power that comes with it.

Pieh
09-20-2009, 09:21 PM
I like to think Raistlin Majere wins this one. But you also have to remember than even Obi-Wan Kenobi was once called a wizard. Gandalf is a viable choice, and Elminster is also very powerful. I think if we are going to talk about web comic characters like Order of the Sitck's V we need to include Black Mage from 8-Bit Theatre. C'mon, he even branched out into Street Fighter energy manipulation: HAAADOKEN! and Ariana Rael from www.vanvonhunter.com is immensly powerful and also funny.

But, thinking on it for a while... Galstaf, Sorceror of Light, should probably win. He can cast Magic Missile at the darkness, who else bends the rules of magic like that?

michael
09-20-2009, 10:08 PM
The only Vaarsuvious i know of is from the Order of the Stick.


Both Gandalf and Merlin were Druids as written, not wizards.

I have to agree that Karsus and Acererak be the big guys. But let us not forget Daruth Winterwood, he no longer has a brain and is still not to be trifled with. I almost forgot aboot Halaster Blackcloak and Sammaster.

I thought Gandalf was a Valor?

I think Ged was very powerful too.

Pieh
09-20-2009, 11:18 PM
Oh, man. I toally forgot about Ged from the Earthsea novels, Throw him on the list too, he was very powerful at his peak.

Pellinore
09-21-2009, 03:15 PM
It all depends on how you judge power. Is it levels? Probably Szass Tam. Is it control of things aside from magic? Probably Elminster. Is it sheer force of will and intellect? Probably Raistlin.

My vote is Raistlin. He can do more with less and he has outsmarted/out willed Cyan Bloodbane, Fistandantilus, Dalamar, Tahkisis, Paladine, the rest of the Krynn pantheon of gods.

WhiskeyFur
10-08-2009, 03:28 PM
Fizban. He survived the sundering of the world itself....

Fizban = Dragonlance.

Zifnab = Death gate cycle, who commented about that 'skinny red robe mage who was coughing all the time'....


Either him or Pug in the sorcerer's apprentice series. Considering that the guy can simply /will/ someone out of existence.. that's scary.

traesin
10-09-2009, 03:21 AM
Fizban was a god not a wizard.

TheYeti1775
10-09-2009, 09:42 AM
This really depends on how you measure power. If in levels, well then whoever has the most wins, but if you measure in influence (continued influence i would argue) then its going to be a difficult one. There's a lot of mages that have massive influence, yet are not gods, nor that high level (compared to others) - they are just really smart and know where to interject themselves and have powerful allies and friends. Sounds cliche, but Elminster seems to be pulling a whole lotta puppet strings at once if you ask me - at least thats the way they portray him. Dang, this is not easy...

Very good point.


Fizban. He survived the sundering of the world itself....

Fizban = Dragonlance.

Zifnab = Death gate cycle, who commented about that 'skinny red robe mage who was coughing all the time'....


Either him or Pug in the sorcerer's apprentice series. Considering that the guy can simply /will/ someone out of existence.. that's scary.

Zifnab was a good one.
---------------------------
But my choice is the one most responsible for more PC deaths world-wide than all the others combined.

BARGLE - Think about it, how many of us lost a PC or two to him in our starting days of DnD. :cool: He was so powerful that they resurrected him in the final days of Dragon/Dungeon to restat him for 3E. I'm betting several of you picked up that issue just to attempt to kill him again. :laugh:

----------------------------
But besides that fun comment.
I would be looking at:
Rastlin - Dragonlance
Halaster - Forgotten Realms Think about it he went to Hell to rescue Elminister.
Szass Tam - Forgotten Realms, something about him just make me think he's not 'living' up to his full potential.

richermartyn
10-26-2009, 01:18 AM
hi there...

Clerics in are very powerful. While their offensive spells don't do as much direct ... some of the most powerful buffs, and of course healing,...The more supplements the came out the more powerful character you could ..... and TSR wizard hasbro or who ever they are dumped it, to make more money

Dr.Dead
10-26-2009, 08:37 PM
Zameras might be in the top 5 because he 1st trained with the master wizards when he could not learn from the masters he went to the dragons for some help to learn more. He cured himself to immortality to learn with the dragons forever a extremely wise monk came up to him and "why don't you come with me?" Zameras made up him mind and desided to join him in his teachings. For 350 plus years he trained under the martail arts becoming nearly impossple to beat. Zameras went back to the dragons to practise the dragons said the training with the monks hs highten your senceses as the gods came down asking him to join goddem and he turned it down. Zameras told the gods ill join later when there is no more to learn.

Zameras has been through and a fought every level of the abyss and made a deal with the devil himself not to harm his closes freinds of the dragons for disrupting the abyss. Zameras has also been in 7 world wars on six planets.

Zameras is 32 lvl wizard and a lvl 21 monk

:eek:So i think Zameras Shardreaper is in the top 5

mad_gondsman
10-28-2009, 06:55 PM
I don't have a top 5 bulleted list, either... but I think the Simbul deserves some honorable mention in there. If I'm not mistaken, she's a daughter of the Goddess of Magic herself... and spell-duels (read: sets their blood on fire while it is still in their bodies) Red Wizards as a hobby.

Raistlin and Elminster would surely fall in there. Szass Tam.

I tend to lean towards the Forgotten Realms more for wizardry as it's the campaign setting's focus.

I haven't brushed up on the goings-on's post-spellplague/4e.

Dr.Dead
10-28-2009, 08:58 PM
I still think Zameras is in the top 5

WhiskeyFur
10-29-2009, 06:46 PM
Think Pug/Milamber would have no problem with him Dr.Dead. If Pug can disarm a trap set by a being that rivaled the gods, that's power.

The author has to keep devising ways to limit his power, considering he was able to destroy a planet wholesale at one point, and engineer the destruction of a being the gods themselves feared.

Check it out. Wiki link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pug_(fictional_character))

tesral
10-30-2009, 01:49 AM
Cheech Wizard, and don't you dare look under the hat.